Thinking of separating my holdings into two physical locations.

[larry_vw_1955]

Okay, but finances are pretty basic component of building a life together. Jobs, mortgages/rent, cars, savings, retirement, holidays, childcare, education fees, and so on.

well it's not like every couple sits down before they get married and has a conversation about all those topics you mentioned.  probably not, right?

I didn't mean how you physically file the taxes separately; obviously you can. But how do you hide the taxes you are paying from your spouse? Again, a secret bank account they don't know anything about?

sure, why not? does every spouse know all of the other spouce's bank accounts? probably not.

With zero links to my real life identity.

well you have a boat because you lost your crypto in a boating accident so that's a big privacy leak right there  

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[o_e_l_e_o]

It means you won't leave your seed but a signed transaction with a timelock, it implies to create a new transaction each time you spend some funds or you receive some if you want to transmit all your funds.

A timelocked transaction set up should be used with your cold storage wallets which are not making frequent transactions. Further, it is trivial to create a new timelocked transactions when you are using that wallet, and the whole process of creating the transaction, signing it, and printing it off or sending it to someone else can be done under a minute.

So it's a convenient solution only if you don't hold much funds in altcoins

Fair point. I don't hold any shitcoins so I don't ever really consider that angle.

There is a difference between knowing that you own bitcoins and having access to them, in the same way as knowing you own a smartphone and knowing its pin code for example.

But if you are concerned about your spouse being a gossip and making you a target, as posters above have suggested, then both are just as risky.

does every spouse know all of the other spouce's bank accounts? probably not.

Then why get married if you have so many secrets you want to keep from the other person?

well you have a boat

Prove it.

[larry_vw_1955]

Then why get married if you have so many secrets you want to keep from the other person?

maybe we should take a step back and ask if you agree that a married couple should have their own personal bank accounts and maybe a joint savings account and another joint account where they pay the bills out of. i doubt spouses are going to be checking the other's bank account statements each month anyway so as far as that goes, it effectively is a bank account they know nothing about....

[o_e_l_e_o]

maybe we should take a step back and ask if you agree that a married couple should have their own personal bank accounts and maybe a joint savings account and another joint account where they pay the bills out of.

I don't see any issue with that, but I do see an issue with both individuals having their own account, them sharing a joint account, and then one of those individuals having an extra secret account which they are skimming off some of their income or savings or whatever to hide from the other person. In such a case you obviously do not trust your spouse, which goes back to the initial question of why did you marry them in the first place?

I have argued long and hard in defense of all things privacy, and so if you want to keep parts of your life secret from your spouse than that is absolutely your right. I guess I just don't understand why you would be in such a relationship. If I trusted someone so little, I would be keeping a much more casual relationship with them.

[Welsh]

maybe we should take a step back and ask if you agree that a married couple should have their own personal bank accounts and maybe a joint savings account and another joint account where they pay the bills out of. i doubt spouses are going to be checking the other's bank account statements each month anyway so as far as that goes, it effectively is a bank account they know nothing about....

Many couples have separate bank accounts, but they at least tell or are open to their partner about it. Having a secret bank account is another story, I haven't heard that too often. If you don't want to share everything with your partner you probably shouldn't get married in the first place, since you're legally accepting that you will share everything.

I'm not even sure what the motives would be to hide a bank account from your partner. What does that achieve?

[BlackHatCoiner]

In such a case you obviously do not trust your spouse, which goes back to the initial question of why did you marry them in the first place?

Marrying isn't harmonious everywhere. In some places, marrying someone is not made with both spouses' consent. In Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan, forced marriages and child marriages are common phenomena. Also, in almost every part of the world, married couples have benefits such as social security, health care and other tax benefits. I don't want to argue someone should marry another for those reasons, but I'm sure some do.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I don't want to argue someone should marry another for those reasons, but I'm sure some do.

Sure, I appreciate that, but the original argument several pages ago was about letting someone you trust know about your bitcoin and your back ups in order to inherit them or to recover them if you were incapacitated or suffered memory loss. Obviously if it is a forced or arranged marriage that one party is looking to get out of as soon as is safely possible, then that is a different thing entirely and you wouldn't want the other person to inherit anything should you die anyway. But in the case of marriages where you are actively building a life together, taking out a mortgage together, having kids and grand-kids together, then such a marriage is completely based on trust. You don't trust someone to know about your finances, but you trust them enough to take out a mortgage with you or help raise your kids? That makes no sense to me.

[larry_vw_1955]

Many couples have separate bank accounts, but they at least tell or are open to their partner about it.

just because you know each other has their own personal bank account doesn't mean you know what's going on in that bank account. 

Having a secret bank account is another story, I haven't heard that too often.

is there really a difference though? if you don't know what they are doing in their bank account does it really matter whether you know that account exists or not? so i guess you have a protocol in place for how spouses declare all the transactions they are doing periodically, maybe emailing each other their respective bank statements?

If you don't want to share everything with your partner you probably shouldn't get married in the first place, since you're legally accepting that you will share everything.

well i'm not sure that statement is true. just because people get married doesn't mean they shouldn't try and protect themself from adverse events that might occur in the future. that's what a pre-nuptual agreement is for.

I'm not even sure what the motives would be to hide a bank account from your partner. What does that achieve?

well it could achieve alot of things. for example lets say you are doing some type of illegal transactions and in order to limit your spouse's liability, you don't want them to know about it. how's that ? need another example, just ask.

I don't see any issue with that, but I do see an issue with both individuals having their own account, them sharing a joint account, and then one of those individuals having an extra secret account which they are skimming off some of their income or savings or whatever to hide from the other person.

what's the difference though? unless there is some protocol to share bank account statements from the personal accounts on a periodic basis.

In such a case you obviously do not trust your spouse, which goes back to the initial question of why did you marry them in the first place?

i dont know.

I have argued long and hard in defense of all things privacy, and so if you want to keep parts of your life secret from your spouse than that is absolutely your right. I guess I just don't understand why you would be in such a relationship. If I trusted someone so little, I would be keeping a much more casual relationship with them.

well i don't think anyone starts out with the goal to keep secrets it's just something that happens along the way maybe? i don't know. but little secrets can turn into big secrets but by then, you already justified the entire thing somehow. 

[Outhue]

What do you think? I don't think it would make sense, for example to have copies of the seeds of both HW's at both sites because in a $5 wrench attack I could lose everything.

One drawback I see is that if the house burns down I would lose everything I manage with one HW, but well, that risk I also had now, having 100% of the management of my holdings in one site.

It depends on you. I personally have my main cold-storage seeds in encrypted USBs, hidden in different secret locations. One secret location is in my house, another one in my car, another at work, and the last one in my old room in my parents' house. They all look cheap, ordinary USBs, with directories named "My Files" with old useless/random files from work scattered with the encrypted folder nested in another folder with more random files that contains the seeds. The USBs can only be opened in Linux

This is very smart, can you tell me how you setup the USB that it can only be opened in Linux OS? I think this will be very useful for me because many people don't like using Linux OS, for example, in my country you will never see anyone running Linux on their PC, it is always Windows OS.

I don't know if will come across this reply, if you do pls drop a message or PM about how you make this work.

[Welsh]

This is very smart, can you tell me how you setup the USB that it can only be opened in Linux OS? I think this will be very useful for me because many people don't like using Linux OS, for example, in my country you will never see anyone running Linux on their PC, it is always Windows OS.

I don't know if will come across this reply, if you do pls drop a message or PM about how you make this work.

Linux can open any USB. Although, if you want an encrypted one, you can get hardware encrypted USBs which I'd much prefer than doing it via software, but you've ultimately got to trust the manufacturer of the device, since they've implemented the security, and more often than not they're closed source. You basically setup a pin number on the hardware, and then you put that pin in, plug it in, and it's unlocked. You can make them read only too, which is quite good for operating systems, and when you want to install them or plug in a live usb to a potentially infected computer, and take a look around.

I've got a few hardware encrypted one's, but I probably wouldn't trust them enough to put my seed onto them. I much prefer physical backups.

[larry_vw_1955]

It depends on you. I personally have my main cold-storage seeds in encrypted USBs, hidden in different secret locations. One secret location is in my house, another one in my car, another at work, and the last one in my old room in my parents' house. They all look cheap, ordinary USBs, with directories named "My Files" with old useless/random files from work scattered with the encrypted folder nested in another folder with more random files that contains the seeds. The USBs can only be opened in Linux

where do you store your passwords to unencrypt them?

This is very smart, can you tell me how you setup the USB that it can only be opened in Linux OS? I think this will be very useful for me because many people don't like using Linux OS, for example, in my country you will never see anyone running Linux on their PC, it is always Windows OS.

I think LUKS is something you might use for Linux. But I never tried it. But it looks like it would be a breeze...
https://geekyshacklebolt.wordpress.com/2019/03/06/how-to-encrypt-usb-drives-with-luks/

[Welsh]

I've never been a fan of storing seeds on digital devices, even if they're encrypted, and never touched the internet. There's just too much risk of that device failing, but also potentially being compromised prior to you receiving it. Each to their own, however USB's are much more fragile, and don't tend to live as long as pieces of paper stored correctly.

I think LUKS is something you might use for Linux. But I never tried it. But it looks like it would be a breeze...
https://geekyshacklebolt.wordpress.com/2019/03/06/how-to-encrypt-usb-drives-with-luks/

Yeah, LUKS can be used. Although, you still have to trust the hardware that you're setting LUKS up on. I personally wouldn't recommend untrusted one's. However, these days it's hard to even trust well known brands.

[larry_vw_1955]

Each to their own, however USB's are much more fragile, and don't tend to live as long as pieces of paper stored correctly.

well if someone is just storing their seed phrase on a single digital device then they have no idea what they're doing. 

Yeah, LUKS can be used. Although, you still have to trust the hardware that you're setting LUKS up on. I personally wouldn't recommend untrusted one's. However, these days it's hard to even trust well known brands.

to be honest, i'd be more worried about having some type of encrypted file system corruption. on the list of failure points that one is probably high up on the list in terms of probabilities of occurrence. compared to other things...

[o_e_l_e_o]

where do you store your passwords to unencrypt them?

Generally speaking, I use a self-hosted password manager for most of my online passwords. For passwords to encrypted drives I use paper back ups, much as I do with seed phrases. Since I use full disk encryption on everything, for my daily access drives I also have the passwords in memory since I enter them several times a day more-or-less every day, but I still have paper back ups.

I think LUKS is something you might use for Linux. But I never tried it. But it looks like it would be a breeze...

It is indeed. LUKS is already integrated in to every major Linux distro, and is what I use for whole disk encryption.

I do agree with Welsh, though. My bitcoin wallet back ups are largely non-digital.

[Saint-loup]

It means you won't leave your seed but a signed transaction with a timelock, it implies to create a new transaction each time you spend some funds or you receive some if you want to transmit all your funds.

A timelocked transaction set up should be used with your cold storage wallets which are not making frequent transactions. Further, it is trivial to create a new timelocked transactions when you are using that wallet, and the whole process of creating the transaction, signing it, and printing it off or sending it to someone else can be done under a minute.

I doubt it would take less than one minute to do all that stuff for the average user to be honest but I guess it could be ok if you only do it for your cold wallet though. But what will you do with the funds of your hot wallet? They will be lost ? 0.1 or 0.2 BTC is not an insignificant amount for many people on earth you know.

So it's a convenient solution only if you don't hold much funds in altcoins

Fair point. I don't hold any shitcoins so I don't ever really consider that angle.

That's why this solution is not convenient for many people unfortunately. I'm surprised you don't hold any "shitcoin" though, while you have a ledger. You advise against using any third party service, such as Google, but you hold Bitcoins in a closed source wallet not air gapped while you don't need it?  

There is a difference between knowing that you own bitcoins and having access to them, in the same way as knowing you own a smartphone and knowing its pin code for example.

But if you are concerned about your spouse being a gossip and making you a target, as posters above have suggested, then both are just as risky.

You're right, that's why it's better to make her believe that you only hold very small amounts.

does every spouse know all of the other spouce's bank accounts? probably not.

Then why get married if you have so many secrets you want to keep from the other person?

Why not? I don't think most of women really care about that to be honest. They don't marry men because they hold or not bitcoins, fortunately.

well you have a boat

Prove it.

Sorry, but this quote doesn't belong to me.

[larry_vw_1955]

Sorry, but this quote doesn't belong to me.

yeah it belongs to me. and i stand by it. i know he has one.   periodically he loses his bitcoin on that boat because his wallet falls overboard. in rough waters, of course.

[o_e_l_e_o]

But what will you do with the funds of your hot wallet? They will be lost ? 0.1 or 0.2 BTC is not an insignificant amount for many people on earth you know.

If you keep that much in a hot wallet, then its up to you to figure out how you want to leave it to your heirs. Simply telling your spouse about the location of your seed phrase back up would be my preference, but I also don't keep that much money in a hot wallet. I treat a hot wallet as I treat physical cash in my physical wallet, and I certainly don't wander around with thousands of dollars of cash in my pocket.

You advise against using any third party service, such as Google, but you hold Bitcoins in a closed source wallet not air gapped while you don't need it?

I have a variety of hardware wallets used for a variety of different reasons. Some single-sig, some multi-sig, some decoys, some are empty, etc.

Why not? I don't think most of women really care about that to be honest. They don't marry men because they hold or not bitcoins, fortunately.

I'm not arguing that you should be showing off your bitcoin to entice someone to marry you, but rather you probably shouldn't be basing your entire marriage on lies and secrecy from your spouse.

[Saint-loup]

But what will you do with the funds of your hot wallet? They will be lost ? 0.1 or 0.2 BTC is not an insignificant amount for many people on earth you know.

If you keep that much in a hot wallet, then its up to you to figure out how you want to leave it to your heirs. Simply telling your spouse about the location of your seed phrase back up would be my preference, but I also don't keep that much money in a hot wallet. I treat a hot wallet as I treat physical cash in my physical wallet, and I certainly don't wander around with thousands of dollars of cash in my pocket.

Unlike Bitcoin, we don't need to pay dozens cents of mining fees each time we make a transaction with cash, so we don't use Bitcoin in the same way as we use cash normally. And LN needs to dedicate rather large amounts of funds to the channels, if we want to use it smoothly, so it's not easy to keep a hot wallet with less than several hundreds of USD when we use Bitcoin frequently.

Why not? I don't think most of women really care about that to be honest. They don't marry men because they hold or not bitcoins, fortunately.

I'm not arguing that you should be showing off your bitcoin to entice someone to marry you, but rather you probably shouldn't be basing your entire marriage on lies and secrecy from your spouse.

I'm sure there is a universe where all wives and husbands are fully transparent and can say anything to their partner, but it doesn't seem to be this one unfortunately
And the woman said, The serpent deceived me, and I ate.

[larry_vw_1955]

Unlike Bitcoin, we don't need to pay dozens cents of mining fees each time we make a transaction with cash, so we don't use Bitcoin in the same way as we use cash normally.

not because we don't want to but because there's not a feasible solution for transferring bitcoin without paying fees. with fiat, you can just hand your cash to someone and no one pays any fees. you can't do that with bitcoin. never will be able to. because any solution is going to cost you more than the fees would have...

I'm sure there is a universe where all wives and husbands are fully transparent and can say anything to their partner, but it doesn't seem to be this one unfortunately

there might not even be a universe like that but i'm sure there are some relationships that are on that level. just not all of them. 

[o_e_l_e_o]

it's not easy to keep a hot wallet with less than several hundreds of USD when we use Bitcoin frequently.

I don't agree with that, because that is exactly what I do. I have a hot wallet on my phone with usually less than $100 worth of bitcoin on it. I use this to make purchases in person with my local merchants who I know accept bitcoin. I'm buying things like groceries or electronic accessories such as spare cables, so usually well under $100. When it gets low, I top it up from a cold wallet at home.

If I plan to make a larger purchase than that in person, then I'll either load up my hot wallet in advance or take a hardware wallet and take it with me, depending on the value we are talking about.

I'm sure there is a universe where all wives and husbands are fully transparent and can say anything to their partner, but it doesn't seem to be this one unfortunately

Fair enough, but that goes back my original point. If you are entering in to a marriage and already planning to hide all your bitcoin from your spouse, then you should have signed a prenup.