Who really fought the Nazis

[paxmao]

There has been a lot of echo to the official RF version of Urkaine being "Nazis". Let's now recap and see who actually drove the Nazis out of Ukraine and Russia:

Ukraine's Contribution to Victory in World War II Is Unsurpassed

Ukraine paid the biggest price for victory in the Second World War. As a vital contributor to the Red Army and a key provider of industrial resources in the USSR, Ukraine incurred the largest number of casualties during WWII. Russia has claimed the victory for itself and has officially denied the Ukrainian role in the fight against the Nazis.

The real number of victims during WWII is still not fully known. Some relevant data is still held in Russian archives and is not available for non-Russian researchers. However, of the 41.7 million people living in Ukrainian Soviet Republic before the war, only 27.4 million were alive in Ukraine in 1945. Official data says that at least 8 million Ukrainians lost their lives: 5.5 - 6 million civilians, and more than 2.5 million natives of Ukraine were killed at the front. The data varies between 8 to 14 million killed, however, only 6 million have been identified.

Remarkably, in December 2010, the President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin mentioned in an interview that the Soviet Union could have won the Second World War without Ukrainian forces. “We would definitely have won without Ukraine as a member of USSR, because we are the “winner state.” The war was won because of Russian industrial resources” he claimed.

The contribution of Ukrainians to victory in World War II was not just limited to the 7 million Ukrainian soldiers in the Red Army. Hundreds of Ukrainians also served as generals and commanders. The flag of victory over the Reichstag was first raised by a Ukrainian from Sumy, Alex Berest. In addition, about 2.5 million Ukrainians received commendations and were awarded with medals by the Soviet Union.

Ukraine was also the largest contributor to the industrial resources of the USSR. Before the war, the Ukrainian SSR was a leading center for metals and mining, chemical production, tractors, and agricultural machinery. In 1940, Ukrainian mechanical engineers built 671 line-haul locomotives (73.4 percent of all-Union production) and 16 thousand tons of mining and metallurgical equipment (67.5 percent).

I think that Putin has little to teach Ukraine about how to fight, how to win and how to get the Nazis, the real ones, out of the country and into their sewers. It is about time that Ukraine gets the recognition they deserve and that will not come from the Kremlin.

[1714839075]

1714839075

[1714839075]

1714839075

[BADecker]

Everybody knows or is finding out that Ukraine is the most corrupt country in Europe. To see this, simply do a search like this one - https://duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=Ukraine%2C+corrupt+country&ia=web. Wherever you got your info from, it was probably a corrupt Ukrainian journalist who wrote it... even if it is somewhat true.

The interesting thing is that some of the people in the US government are even more corrupt.

[Zlantann]

It is true that some Ukrainians collaborated with Germany during the second world War because of so may reasons. But for Putin to justify the invasion of Ukraine with the claim that he want to "denazify " the country is hiding the truth and promoting falsehood. Ukrainians fought with Russians to defeat Germany and I am sure that without thier support victory would have been more difficult. Infact it was estimated that a total of 4.5million Ukrainians joined the Russians to fight the Nazis, while a mere 250,000 collaborated with Germany. My question now is are the thousands of civilians that have been killed by the Russians during this invasion Nazis?

[BADecker]

^^^ If you check it out, you will find that there are Nazi's in both Russia and the Ukraine. You will also find that not everyone is a Nazi.

There is a lot of innocent killing going on in this war. But if you look, you will find that:
1. In the past the parts of Ukraine that Russia has taken back were actually part of Russia.
2. The Ukraine military was killing the people of the Donbas and Donetsk since at least 2014, because they were Russian.

Russia was simply protecting her own with this invasion. And they didn't invade for years because they were trying to negotiate. When negotiations failed, what choice did they have?

[Hispo]

Interesting information, this is the kind of thing that one does not hear about in the usual wold war II documentary. It is always the red army of the Soviet Union that gets most of the credit.

Also, it is remarkable how the Nazi talking point has been a thing since the beginning of this conflict, I have no doubt that there must be some people in Ukraine who sympathize with the national socialist ideology, but there is also people like that in many countries of Europe and even in the United States. 

The only reason of this war seems to be to annex territory to the Russian Federation.

[BADecker]

^^^ However, German's were and are smart when they want to be. Consider how they got into the US through their rocket scientists at the end of WW2.

Nazi's are smart. 'If you can't beat them, join them'. That's why there are Nazi's in both Ukraine and Russia right now.

Both countries killed off lots of Nazi's, and absorbed loads more.

[TwitchySeal]

There has been a lot of echo to the official RF version of Urkaine being "Nazis". Let's now recap and see who actually drove the Nazis out of Ukraine and Russia:

Ukraine's Contribution to Victory in World War II Is Unsurpassed

Ukraine paid the biggest price for victory in the Second World War. As a vital contributor to the Red Army and a key provider of industrial resources in the USSR, Ukraine incurred the largest number of casualties during WWII. Russia has claimed the victory for itself and has officially denied the Ukrainian role in the fight against the Nazis.

The real number of victims during WWII is still not fully known. Some relevant data is still held in Russian archives and is not available for non-Russian researchers. However, of the 41.7 million people living in Ukrainian Soviet Republic before the war, only 27.4 million were alive in Ukraine in 1945. Official data says that at least 8 million Ukrainians lost their lives: 5.5 - 6 million civilians, and more than 2.5 million natives of Ukraine were killed at the front. The data varies between 8 to 14 million killed, however, only 6 million have been identified.

Remarkably, in December 2010, the President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin mentioned in an interview that the Soviet Union could have won the Second World War without Ukrainian forces. “We would definitely have won without Ukraine as a member of USSR, because we are the “winner state.” The war was won because of Russian industrial resources” he claimed.

The contribution of Ukrainians to victory in World War II was not just limited to the 7 million Ukrainian soldiers in the Red Army. Hundreds of Ukrainians also served as generals and commanders. The flag of victory over the Reichstag was first raised by a Ukrainian from Sumy, Alex Berest. In addition, about 2.5 million Ukrainians received commendations and were awarded with medals by the Soviet Union.

Ukraine was also the largest contributor to the industrial resources of the USSR. Before the war, the Ukrainian SSR was a leading center for metals and mining, chemical production, tractors, and agricultural machinery. In 1940, Ukrainian mechanical engineers built 671 line-haul locomotives (73.4 percent of all-Union production) and 16 thousand tons of mining and metallurgical equipment (67.5 percent).

I think that Putin has little to teach Ukraine about how to fight, how to win and how to get the Nazis, the real ones, out of the country and into their sewers. It is about time that Ukraine gets the recognition they deserve and that will not come from the Kremlin.

And all this only happened after Stalin manufactured a famine that killed millions of Ukrainians.

Why would he do that?

Because Ukraine was on a path towards cultural and political independence from the the Soviet Union.

Sound familiar? 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

Also, in the early days of WW2, Stalin and Hitler made a secret deal to invade Poland together without getting in each others way. While nobody knew of the deal, Stalin had to come up with an excuse....so he claimed he was invading Poland to protect ethnic Ukrainians that were being killed in a genocide....

Sound familiar?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pact

[BADecker]

One of the major reasons for the war is that Ukraine and Russia were always moving towards togetherness among the common people. The West can't take this, because it's a push-back against their One-World-Government ideals... ideals that are in the form of old USSR expansion, if not in they mode or style of the USSR. But there are always those in both Russia and Ukraine who want to rule their own country without the other.

Russia wasn't in a real, do-or-die fighting mode. They are being pushed towards that by the West interfering in Ukraine. Without the West, Ukraine is simply in a 'Die' mode. At least at this stage of the game.

The point is that any nation that has the ability to fight, if it fights with all its strength in forceful do-or-die fashion, can often beat many other nations that it normally wouldn't succeed against.

The people of Ukraine are essentially dead as far as their effectiveness. Any effectiveness that they have in the future will only be US and Nato effectiveness.

The West is not in do-or-die mode. At least not the people. In fact, the people are starting to become vocal in their protesting against West involvement in Ukraine.

Russia, on the other hand, is a united nation - even if there are those who don't like certain aspects of their country or government. They aren't in a do-or-die mode yet, but the West is pushing them in that direction more and more. If they ever get into that mode, they will sweep across Europe something like the hordes of Genghis Khan. Nothing will stop them. Not even nukes, especially since they can fight back with nukes.

[TwitchySeal]

One of the major reasons for the war is that Ukraine and Russia were always moving towards togetherness among the common people. The West can't take this, because it's a push-back against their One-World-Government ideals... ideals that are in the form of old USSR expansion, if not in they mode or style of the USSR. But there are always those in both Russia and Ukraine who want to rule their own country without the other.

Russia wasn't in a real, do-or-die fighting mode. They are being pushed towards that by the West interfering in Ukraine. Without the West, Ukraine is simply in a 'Die' mode. At least at this stage of the game.

The point is that any nation that has the ability to fight, if it fights with all its strength in forceful do-or-die fashion, can often beat many other nations that it normally wouldn't succeed against.

The people of Ukraine are essentially dead as far as their effectiveness. Any effectiveness that they have in the future will only be US and Nato effectiveness.

The West is not in do-or-die mode. At least not the people. In fact, the people are starting to become vocal in their protesting against West involvement in Ukraine.

Russia, on the other hand, is a united nation - even if there are those who don't like certain aspects of their country or government. They aren't in a do-or-die mode yet, but the West is pushing them in that direction more and more. If they ever get into that mode, they will sweep across Europe something like the hordes of Genghis Khan. Nothing will stop them. Not even nukes, especially since they can fight back with nukes.

There reason for the war is Russia invaded Ukraine and won't leave.  That's the reason.

[paxmao]

One of the major reasons for the war is that Ukraine and Russia were always moving towards togetherness among the common people. The West can't take this, because it's a push-back against their One-World-Government ideals... ideals that are in the form of old USSR expansion, if not in they mode or style of the USSR. But there are always those in both Russia and Ukraine who want to rule their own country without the other.

Russia wasn't in a real, do-or-die fighting mode. They are being pushed towards that by the West interfering in Ukraine. Without the West, Ukraine is simply in a 'Die' mode. At least at this stage of the game.

The point is that any nation that has the ability to fight, if it fights with all its strength in forceful do-or-die fashion, can often beat many other nations that it normally wouldn't succeed against.

The people of Ukraine are essentially dead as far as their effectiveness. Any effectiveness that they have in the future will only be US and Nato effectiveness.

The West is not in do-or-die mode. At least not the people. In fact, the people are starting to become vocal in their protesting against West involvement in Ukraine.

Russia, on the other hand, is a united nation - even if there are those who don't like certain aspects of their country or government. They aren't in a do-or-die mode yet, but the West is pushing them in that direction more and more. If they ever get into that mode, they will sweep across Europe something like the hordes of Genghis Khan. Nothing will stop them. Not even nukes, especially since they can fight back with nukes.

There reason for the war is Russia invaded Ukraine and won't leave.  That's the reason.

Most common people from Ukraine and Russia did not hold much of a grudge IMHO. Creating such hate and issues where there were not is all Moscow's doing. Two army corps fighting an illegal war in the Donbas for years goes a long way into creating a false narrative of hate. You may be right, the Kremlin is scared of having what many Russian see as the poor brother being successful in an alliance with Europe. That cannot be uh?

[Zlantann]

^^^ If you check it out, you will find that there are Nazi's in both Russia and the Ukraine. You will also find that not everyone is a Nazi.

There is a lot of innocent killing going on in this war. But if you look, you will find that:
1. In the past the parts of Ukraine that Russia has taken back were actually part of Russia.
2. The Ukraine military was killing the people of the Donbas and Donetsk since at least 2014, because they were Russian.

Russia was simply protecting its own with this invasion. And they didn't invade for years because they were trying to negotiate. When negotiations failed, what choice did they have?

Is this news of the intimidation and killings of Russians in Ukraine by the government not in the media? I have never seen any video, pictures, or reliable newspaper reporting these intimidations and killings. And Russia should never justify its invasion of Ukraine by the above claims because there are many more reasons why it invaded. But I know both parties are regretting the war. Russia thought the war will be easy and short, while Ukraine thought it could get any weapon from NATO including war jets and a no-fly-zone.

How can people you claim to be protecting are dying in thousand? Russia has killed more than they claim they are protecting. This senseless war should end, innocent people are dying while Putin and Zelensky and their cronies are living in pleasure and abundance. I heard that stripe dancers were sent to the warzones to entertain soldiers, this cannot eradicate the fear of death and it is religiously wrong.

[BADecker]

^^^ The war would end almost instantly if:
1. The US and Nato pulled out of Ukraine;
2. Ukraine stopped fighting and waved the white flag.

Sure, the Russians would punish some of the Ukraine government. But they would leave most of the citizenry alone. At this stage of the game, they might annex all of Ukraine. But it would be for Ukraine's own good... getting rid of the Biden corruption there.

Russia didn't want the war in the first place. How do we know? They went in unprepared in many ways.

Even Net searches in US media show that the war really started back in 2014 - https://duckduckgo.com/?t=lm&q=Ukraine+killing+Russians+since+2014&ia=web.

Try the Russian search engine, Yandex - https://yandex.com/search/?text=Ukraine+killing+Russians+since+2014&lr=21416&redircnt=1675761807.1.

Who is lying. Putin when he talks about Ukraine killing Russians since 2014? Or the US media that lies about everything... like how safe he Covid vaxx is, and how dangerous Covid is.

[TwitchySeal]

Putin is lying.
Russia invaded Ukraine.
Covid is dangerous.
The covid vaccine is safe.

[BADecker]

^^^ Outside of the fact that everybody lies a little...

We don't need Putin's talk to see that Ukraine was pushing the war since at least 2014. Search the net. Use the Yandex search engine if you can only find the lies you want to find.

[darkangel11]

Sure, the Russians would punish some of the Ukraine government. But they would leave most of the citizenry alone.

Would you believe that if you were a Ukrainian? They were shooting at fleeing cars with families inside. They were killing people who were standing with their arms in the air, unarmed. There are many videos of their atrocities. If I were Ukrainian, knowing what they did to many of my friends and relatives, I would never trust Russians. They showed their disregard for peace and promises when they agreed to allow Ukrainian civilians to evacuate and then bombed them as they were fleeing.

At this stage of the game, they might annex all of Ukraine. But it would be for Ukraine's own good... getting rid of the Biden corruption there.

Let Ukrainians decide what's good for them. AFAIK most of them want Russians to go back to Russia.

Russia didn't want the war in the first place.

Who crossed the border first? Who murdered Ukrainian border guards?

Think of what you said here. They came unprepared therefore they didn't want war.
What if someone enters your property and proceeds to steal your car with a screwdriver. When you come out he says you shouldn't do anything because he came unprepared. You made him do it by driving that nice car near his home.

[paxmao]

^^^ The war would end almost instantly if:
1. The US and Nato pulled out of Ukraine;
2. Ukraine stopped fighting and waved the white flag.

...

You are a genius!   All that Ukraine needs to do is to give in to the dictatorship from Moscow and accept "some kind of punishment". You are an artist of peace.

Yet, stupid as the argument is, is also false. Even if Ukraine would decide to yield, Putin would not stop there. Next could be Finland, Poland, the baltic republics, Bulgaria, Moldavia... and guess what: Ukranians would be forcibly recruited to fight those wars and Ukraine would once again in history be the scorched land that Moscow would sacrifice in case things go south for them.

As usual, you are a simple mind that likes simple yet wrong answers to complex problems (no wonder a supported of Trump).

...

Do not expect any reasonable or serious argument from the guys here. One is obsessed with "fighting capitalism" and thinks Putin is communist. Other guy believes any conspiracy theory that crosses his path. There is one that accuses other of being Nazis, but calls Ukranians "Ukroids" and a couple of them rutinely repeat the Kremlin's official propaganda, which can only be accepted for people who are really desperate to accept it.

Of all these, only one seems to have ever been in a war, the rest are just people who want others to die.

[BADecker]

The part where the US is saying that Ukraine is just the proxy is quite interesting. Seems that the US actually financed Russia before WW2 so that there would be someone to fight the Nazi's from the north. Then, after the war, Russia got away from the US. So now the US is financing Ukraine to do the same to Russia as they financed Russia to do to the Nazi's. It isn't working so well for the US, but it is total disaster for Ukraine.


A Panicked Empire Tries to Make Russia an 'Offer It Can't Refuse'


https://strategic-culture.org/news/2023/02/02/a-panicked-empire-tries-make-russia-offer-it-cant-refuse/
Those behind the Throne are never more dangerous than when they have their backs against the wall.

Their power is slipping away, fast: Militarily, via NATO's progressive humiliation in Ukraine; Financially, sooner rather than later, most of the Global South will want nothing to do with the currency of a bankrupt rogue giant; Politically, the global majority is taking decisive steps to stop obeying a rapacious, discredited, de facto minority.

So now those behind the Throne are plotting to at least try to stall the incoming disaster on the military front.

As confirmed by a high-level US establishment source, a new directive on NATO vs. Russia in Ukraine was relayed to US Secretary of State Antony Blinken. Blinken, in terms of actual power, is nothing but a messenger boy for the Straussian neocons and neoliberals who actually run US foreign policy.

The secretary of state was instructed to relay the new directive – a sort of message to the Kremlin – via mainstream print media, which was promptly published by the Washington Post.

In the elite US mainstream media division of labor, the New York Times is very close to the State Department. and the Washington Post to the CIA. In this case though the directive was too important, and needed to be relayed by the paper of record in the imperial capital. It was published as an Op-Ed (behind paywall).
...

[electronicash]

the truth in history is harder to trace when everyone had published a book with a version of the truth of thier own. truth is that all governments are Nazis. they all kill.

but which superpower today is most trusted by the way?
you can't say China because after all newspapers and media today spread hate about China but in Africa, Asia and even in Central and South America, they prefer China. Even Germany and Australia are the biggest trading partner of China.
you can't say Russia, but they are among the founder of BRICS and OPEC countries trust Putin more than anyone.
you can't say the USA either, with all the countries it sanctioned and bombed over the years. but the US has Canada and Europe.

leaders all over the world will not see any of them unifying the world, this is why multipolar is what Putin is suggesting.  

[Synchronice]

To be honest, Ukraine is overly romanticized by the world.
Relative to its population size, Belarus was the one that took the most loses. Poland is a country with very tortured past too and yeah, Ukraine but the ww2 was truly fought by the whole USSR and almost every former-soviet union country has sacrificed their men for this war. If it wasn't USSR, a lot of them would be neutral and try not to participate.
I think when it comes to Russia, Ukraine and Germany, true nazis for Ukrainians were and are Russians because of The Holocaust in Ukraine and because of current war.
Here is the statistics by the way:

[af_newbie]

To be honest, Ukraine is overly romanticized by the world.
Relative to its population size, Belarus was the one that took the most loses. Poland is a country with very tortured past too and yeah, Ukraine but the ww2 was truly fought by the whole USSR and almost every former-soviet union country has sacrificed their men for this war. If it wasn't USSR, a lot of them would be neutral and try not to participate.
I think when it comes to Russia, Ukraine and Germany, true nazis for Ukrainians were and are Russians because of The Holocaust in Ukraine and because of current war.
Here is the statistics by the way:

Russians were always the real Nazis. They wanted to conquer and annihilate their neighbours.
Never mind the Orwellian lies their propaganda was spreading since 1918.

What they are doing in Ukraine is clear genocide, depopulation, and an imperialist land grab.