Bisq trading fees / losing maker/taker fees

[Pmalek]

I have limited experience with using Bisq. I was the taker once to see how it works and completed the trade within the same day. I have two questions though.

- I could swear that the older versions of the software allowed peers to customize the sat/vByte fees they are paying. Now I don't see that anywhere in the options menu. You can only adjust the withdrawal fees when you move coins out of the Bisq wallet to another wallet. Is that possible or not? Seems excessive to overpay at times and use the suggested 20 sat/vByte, e.g. when 3-4 sat/vByte would almost guarantee next block confirmation when the mempools are almost empty. 

- The next question is about what happens with the maker/taker fees if you shut down your laptop. For example, when you go to sleep at night. If you delete an order, you lose the maker/taker fees. If the order just goes offline when the software is no longer running, it will go back online again the next time you start it. I am guessing you don't lose any fees when you do that. The software has to remain online until the security deposits are confirmed on the blockchain. After that, it doesn't have to be online at all times.

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[NotATether]

They did push a mandatory update a few weeks ago that changed a bunch of stuff, but honestly even before that, I was still able to customize the fees I send from the internal wallet, but not the trades in the marketplace.

The settings panel did mothball quite a few options like the ability to disable the DAO.

[Pmalek]

Based on what you are saying, the trading fees have to stay the way the app suggests and there is no way to manually increase/decrease them based on current network conditions.
Any thoughts on my second question? Do traders lose any money by taking their orders offline? Not deleting them from the order books, just taking them temporarily offline.

[DireWolfM14]

Based on what you are saying, the trading fees have to stay the way the app suggests and there is no way to manually increase/decrease them based on current network conditions.
Any thoughts on my second question? Do traders lose any money by taking their orders offline? Not deleting them from the order books, just taking them temporarily offline.

The transaction fees for a trade are set by the software to minimize the amount of time for a trade to complete.  They are kind of high, but I've never seen them at 20 sat/vbyte.  If I'm not mistaken they are usually at 2 to 5 sats/vbyte depending on how busy mempool is.  Are you sure you're not mistaking the Bisq commission for a transaction fee?  FYI, you get a significant discount by using BSQ to pay the commission fees.

As for what happens to your fees and open offers while your computer is off; the offer just goes off-line during that time, meaning it won't be visible to other traders.  Your funds will remain safe in your wallet, and you won't lose your offer.  When you go back on-line your offers will be visible to other traders again, and no additional fees will be charged.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Answer to your first question: From my v1.9.9 Bisq, in Funds, down the "Send funds from wallet" form, there is a withdrawal transaction fee. The software tells me that the lowest acceptable fee is 2 sat/vb.

Answer to your second question: If the software is interrupted, once reopened, the orders will be reinstated in the order book. No maker fee is lost.

[Pmalek]

FYI, you get a significant discount by using BSQ to pay the commission fees.

I know that but I have never checked how to get my hands on some BSQ. Can they be bought on Bisq or where is the best way to get them?

As for what happens to your fees and open offers while your computer is off; the offer just goes off-line during that time, meaning it won't be visible to other traders.  Your funds will remain safe in your wallet, and you won't lose your offer.  When you go back on-line your offers will be visible to other traders again, and no additional fees will be charged.

That's what I wanted to know, thanks.

Answer to your first question: From my v1.9.9 Bisq, in Funds, down the "Send funds from wallet" form, there is a withdrawal transaction fee. The software tells me that the lowest acceptable fee is 2 sat/vb.

That's OK, I know how to adjust the withdrawal fees from Bisq to outside wallets. I was only asking about the trading fees.

[paid2]

FYI, you get a significant discount by using BSQ to pay the commission fees.

I know that but I have never checked how to get my hands on some BSQ. Can they be bought on Bisq or where is the best way to get them?

Trading BSQ - Bisq Wiki

How to get BSQ by contributing to Bisq

[DireWolfM14]

FYI, you get a significant discount by using BSQ to pay the commission fees.

I know that but I have never checked how to get my hands on some BSQ. Can they be bought on Bisq or where is the best way to get them?

Yeah, you can buy them on bisq, not sure if they're traded elsewhere.  Under the "Buy" (or "Sell") tab, just below the green bar at the top you'll see the Bitcoin, BSQ, XMR, and Other markets.

As for what happens to your fees and open offers while your computer is off; the offer just goes off-line during that time, meaning it won't be visible to other traders.  Your funds will remain safe in your wallet, and you won't lose your offer.  When you go back on-line your offers will be visible to other traders again, and no additional fees will be charged.

That's what I wanted to know, thanks.

Yeah, Bisq is pretty straight-forward, no hidden fees or charges, and the trade fees are very reasonable.  It might take some getting used to if you accustomed to a centralized exchange, but once you get the hang of it things get easier.  

Answer to your first question: From my v1.9.9 Bisq, in Funds, down the "Send funds from wallet" form, there is a withdrawal transaction fee. The software tells me that the lowest acceptable fee is 2 sat/vb.

That's OK, I know how to adjust the withdrawal fees from Bisq to outside wallets. I was only asking about the trading fees.

The Bisq UI doesn't have much in the way of advanced features, so if you're concerned about such things as fees and coin-control within your Bisq wallet you can always use Electrum to manage your wallet in parallel.  It's not recommended because you can break offers if you accidently send a UTXO that's reserved for an open offer.  The worst that will happen is you'll lose your fees, and have to create a replacement offer.  If you want to use Electrum, note that your Bisq wallets have custom derivation paths.  Go to the "Account">"Wallet Info" tab to see them along with Xpubs for watch-only wallets.

[Pmalek]

I woke up to a new question. 

Let's assume I am using Bisq to buy bitcoin using an electronic payment system like Skrill or Wise. A trader accepts my offer, we both deposit and send our security deposits and the trade is underway. When I attempt to send the money, I realize that my scumbag e-wallet provider (I am looking at you Skrill) froze my wallet asking additional questions about by business activities. It happens if you use them long enough.

With the trade already started, can both trading partners cancel it by agreement without losing their security deposits, or can open trades only be cancelled by mediators/arbitrators during dispute resolution? My guess is that a Bisq 3rd-party has to step in. 

[paid2]

I woke up to a new question. 

Let's assume I am using Bisq to buy bitcoin using an electronic payment system like Skrill or Wise. A trader accepts my offer, we both deposit and send our security deposits and the trade is underway. When I attempt to send the money, I realize that my scumbag e-wallet provider (I am looking at you Skrill) froze my wallet asking additional questions about by business activities. It happens if you use them long enough.

With the trade already started, can both trading partners cancel it by agreement without losing their security deposits, or can open trades only be cancelled by mediators/arbitrators during dispute resolution? My guess is that a Bisq 3rd-party has to step in. 

I think if you are able to record your screen to prove that you are facing an issue, the trade would be canceled and you refunded.

As long as you own proofs, there is no problem in general

Examples of materials needed when you open a dispute : https://docs.bisq.network/trading-rules
I think you could provide same kind of materials to withdraw your security deposit

[DireWolfM14]

With the trade already started, can both trading partners cancel it by agreement without losing their security deposits,

A trade can't be "cancelled" in the traditional sense, but if an issue arises the traders can submit a dispute at any time.  Some times the mediators prefer to let the trade go through the trade period before making any decisions.  I don't use swift, but my fiat payment methods have a trade period of 4 days.  Disputes are started by clicking the "Get Support" button on the trade screen.

or can open trades only be cancelled by mediators/arbitrators during dispute resolution? My guess is that a Bisq 3rd-party has to step in.  

As far as I know, mediators have no control over the funds.  They can reset the trade status which allows the two traders to complete the trade.  Arbitration is much more severe and does give control of the funds to the arbitrator.  That can result in one of the traders losing some or all of his deposit if he was perceived to have been attempting a scam.

More info here: https://docs.bisq.network/trading-rules#dispute-resolution

[Pmalek]

As far as I know, mediators have no control over the funds.

That's right. The security deposit goes into a 2-of-2 multisig where the trading partners hold one key each. The mediators have no keys. They can make suggestions about what should happen and the trading parties can either agree or disagree with the outcome.   

Arbitration is much more severe and does give control of the funds to the arbitrator.  That can result in one of the traders losing some or all of his deposit if he was perceived to have been attempting a scam.

No objective and normal arbitrator would perceive the example I gave as an attempt to scam. If they did, they are terrible at their job and should no longer do it. I don't think that would happen as it would also shed a bad light on the exchange.