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Author Topic: Help with Arguments Needed  (Read 1024 times)
becoin
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December 12, 2011, 07:01:49 PM
 #1

Seems I have quite unusual problem.  Smiley

I intend to help the bitcoin community and help it big but I have to convince the central bank that bitcoin is NOT money. What would be my best arguments? Thank you all for caring to respond.

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Harvey
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December 12, 2011, 07:04:30 PM
 #2

What money?

@HarveyAlpha (https://twitter.com/#!/HarveyAlpha) | It would be foolish to assert that there is no power above mine. Only the attitude that I take toward it will be quite another than that of the religious age: I shall be the enemy of every higher power.
becoin
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December 12, 2011, 07:06:18 PM
 #3

What money?
Money. Like M-O-N-E-Y.

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December 12, 2011, 07:07:21 PM
 #4

LOL bitcoin? money? are you mad? it just a bunch of geeks who *think* they know anything about economics.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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December 12, 2011, 07:08:27 PM
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Where? Again, what money? I thought we were talking about the Bitcoin data protocol.

@HarveyAlpha (https://twitter.com/#!/HarveyAlpha) | It would be foolish to assert that there is no power above mine. Only the attitude that I take toward it will be quite another than that of the religious age: I shall be the enemy of every higher power.
nmat
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December 12, 2011, 07:09:31 PM
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MtGox is dealing with the same problem in France. MagicalTux posted a few arguments in this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=41317.0
becoin
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December 12, 2011, 07:15:37 PM
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MtGox is dealing with the same problem in France.
Thanks, nmat. Somehow I've missed this thread. Will have to read it.

Seems the law is at crossroad? If they say bitcoin is not money then we can do perfect payment system connected to but independent from current fiat money regulations. If they say bitcoin is money then they say that people can have money without banks and central bank to issue them. So, I suspect court's decision will deliberately take years. Enough to kill bitcoin!?

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nmat
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December 13, 2011, 03:29:57 AM
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Seems the law is at crossroad? If they say bitcoin is not money then we can do perfect payment system connected to but independent from current fiat money regulations. If they say bitcoin is money then they say that people can have money without banks and central bank to issue them. So, I suspect court's decision will deliberately take years. Enough to kill bitcoin!?

Well, some people claimed that a decision was already made, but we haven't seen anything yet.
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December 13, 2011, 03:52:42 AM
 #9

It all depends on what they mean by "Money".  What do they want it to not be?  Why?

      War is God's way of teaching Americans geography.  --Ambrose Bierce
Bitcoin is the Devil's way of teaching geeks economics.  --Revalin 165YUuQUWhBz3d27iXKxRiazQnjEtJNG9g
becoin
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December 13, 2011, 06:32:11 AM
 #10

It all depends on what they mean by "Money".  What do they want it to not be?  Why?
Well, it is not they but me that will have to explain why is bitcoin not money!

Well, some people claimed that a decision was already made, but we haven't seen anything yet.
As far as I can read it this decision is about Mtgox holding fiat currency deposits. Under current financial regulations they can't do that unless they are a financial service company. It is not about bitcoin being money or not.

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Revalin
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December 13, 2011, 06:44:47 AM
 #11

I can give you a useless semantic argument either way for whether Bitcoin is "Money".  It IS a medium of exchange.  It can be a unit of account, but you could argue that this use is uncommon at present.  It can be a store of value, although you could argue that it's a poor one.

It shares some properties of money, but trying to shoehorn it into being "Money" or a "payment processing system", a "commodity", or a "security" will always reveal cases where it's used in ways that clearly don't fit any of those categories.

They probably want to know if Bitcoin has certain properties in common with other currencies.  If you want a good argument, you need to find out which properties they care about.

      War is God's way of teaching Americans geography.  --Ambrose Bierce
Bitcoin is the Devil's way of teaching geeks economics.  --Revalin 165YUuQUWhBz3d27iXKxRiazQnjEtJNG9g
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December 13, 2011, 06:53:02 AM
 #12

how's this central bank would relate to Bitcoin? if it's through an exchange then you're faced with fiat regulations first and foremost. I don't see why would they care about Bitcoin otherwise.
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December 13, 2011, 07:15:29 AM
 #13

bitcoin isn't money.

its 21 million bits.

the fact that some people own the bits, and some people want more bits, means it has value.

ask them what is money? where dose it come from? and what gives it value...

you'll see bitcoin is nothing like "real money"... bitcoin isn't make believe!

 Cheesy

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December 13, 2011, 08:15:32 AM
 #14

If you want to argue that bitcoin is not money, I suggest you focus on the following:

- it is not issued by any central monetary authority.

- it is accepted in VERY few locations (despite what people on this forum would like to believe). You could also point out that most of the merchants that do accept it are (probably) based overseas and not within the jurisdiction of your central bank.

- there is no guarantee that you will be able to exchange it for anything of value in the future.

- there is not a single court decision anywhere in the world finding that it is money.

- it is held mainly by speculators who buy and sell it like a security

I wish you all the best.



becoin
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December 13, 2011, 08:44:09 AM
 #15

If you want to argue that bitcoin is not money, I suggest you focus on the following:

- it is not issued by any central monetary authority.

- it is accepted in VERY few locations (despite what people on this forum would like to believe). You could also point out that most of the merchants that do accept it are (probably) based overseas and not within the jurisdiction of your central bank.

- there is no guarantee that you will be able to exchange it for anything of value in the future.

- there is not a single court decision anywhere in the world finding that it is money.

- it is held mainly by speculators who buy and sell it like a security

I wish you all the best.




Appreciated coin_toss. This is the kind of stuff I'd like to read. Thanks everybody for all constructive hints.

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