Rules of Taxes

[fuer44]

We all know that all citizens in all corners of the world must be taxpayers. Let me say about taxes in my country:
1. vehicle tax
Obliged to pay once a year, but there are also those who do not pay and the authorities also do not come to the taxpayer's house and in the end it is left abandoned
2. Land tax
Once a year the authorities will come to the taxpayer's house to collect taxes
3. Income tax
This will be my concern this time, whether all countries treat the same rules or not, I want to hear from all of you.
Income tax in my country in general will be very effective for employees of government agencies, offices and entrepreneurs. Let's say this, everyone earns whether it's from farming, freelancing, or any kind of work that isn't recorded at the tax office, if they don't report it to the tax authorities then they are exempt from tax. However, there is a provision that if someone has ever borrowed a large amount of money from a bank, even though the borrower was not notified by the taxpayer at first, in the end he was exposed to the taxpayer's accumulation of taxes over the years and he didn't know.

I mean this tax regulation seems uneven and it seems that people who have to pay taxes are people who deal with large amounts of money. Let's say a farmer in 1 harvest (3-4 month) earns $2000, he will remain tax free if not registered or he doesn't register it whereas an employee from the start is already registered with the taxpayer even though their monthly salary is $300. What do you think? I'm a little confused with this tax rule.

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[Cuenta Alternativa]

What you say is a bit confusing.

3. Income tax
This will be my concern this time, whether all countries treat the same rules or not, I want to hear from all of you.
Income tax in my country in general will be very effective for employees of government agencies, offices and entrepreneurs. Let's say this, everyone earns whether it's from farming, freelancing, or any kind of work that isn't recorded at the tax office, if they don't report it to the tax authorities then they are exempt from tax.

No. If they do not report their taxes, they are breaking the law. If it were as you say, no self-employed person would declare them.

However, there is a provision that if someone has ever borrowed a large amount of money from a bank, even though the borrower was not notified by the taxpayer at first, in the end he was exposed to the taxpayer's accumulation of taxes over the years and he didn't know.

Make this clearer because it doesn't make sense.

I'm a little confused with this tax rule.

You don't have to swear. Maybe you should tell us where you live to see if we can clarify.

[Plaguedeath]

1. vehicle tax
Obliged to pay once a year, but there are also those who do not pay and the authorities also do not come to the taxpayer's house and in the end it is left abandoned

Impossible, when someone want to bought a vehicle he need to give his identity and it will recorded if he has a vehicle. So after a year, the tax employee can just contact him through his phone number or come into his house.

No. If they do not report their taxes, they are breaking the law. If it were as you say, no self-employed person would declare them.

You don't have to swear. Maybe you should tell us where you live to see if we can clarify.

No,  they're not entirely breaking the law if they didn't self reporting their jobs and earning to the tax department, except they're have an intention to escape from tax and create fake story. A self employed person is submitting his identity on the freelance website, so the site already collected all of his identity and how much he make for every day/month/year. I believe the site is working together with the government.

If the bank account of those self employed person receive the money which exceed from the minimum income should be taxed, of course the bank will ask him where he get the money and he should report it to the tax department.

@OP is from Indonesia based on his old post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1758141.msg19176208#msg19176208

[Strongkored]

I don't know about taxes in other countries but in my country it also happens that people who have a large income but don't have a tax card do not need to report it and there is no tax to be paid, but even though they have income that is already in excess of what is not subject to tax there are many people who can act fraudulently by reporting only their minimum income so that they will still be tax-free, but because now many have been digitized, there are also many things that are difficult to hide when a citizen has assets that are considered luxurious in his name, then he is certain to be become the target of taxes, government employees, private office employees will easily become taxpayers because their income is provided through bank accounts and companies are also required to report on their employees.

[naira]

I mean this tax regulation seems uneven and it seems that people who have to pay taxes are people who deal with large amounts of money. Let's say a farmer in 1 harvest (3-4 month) earns $2000, he will remain tax free if not registered or he doesn't register it whereas an employee from the start is already registered with the taxpayer even though their monthly salary is $300. What do you think? I'm a little confused with this tax rule.

Maybe we have to look again at how the tax regulation is applied for several groups and the percentage they get for 1 year. So income tax will refer to annual profits, some get 5%, 15%, 25%, 30%, and 35%. for example,
in 1 year income reaches $0 - $4000, then the tax rate that you get is only 5%.

So, we only need to look at how much the profits of farmers and employees are for 1 year, even though each of them gets 5%, the amount to be paid will be different.
Farmers earn $2000/4 months x 3 (in 1 year only harvest 3x) = $6000
taxes paid = about $300/year
Meanwhile, employees earn $300/month x 12 = $3600
taxes paid = $180/year

Both are still included in the income tax range of $0 - $4000, so each is a 5% maintenance tax.

[libert19]

Farmers are free from tax obligation here in my country too. Imo, it's justified as most farmers especially in developed countries tend to be uneducated and tax paying can be hassle. However, there are always two sides and this code is being taken advantage of as it has become a conduit for tax evasion.

[rat03gopoh]

Let's say a farmer in 1 harvest (3-4 month) earns $2000, he will remain tax free if not registered or he doesn't register it

You're from Indonesia right? That doesn't mean they're exempt from taxes, the law provides for that with some sanctions. It's just that sanctions aren't properly implemented, especially for the general public (non-civil servants).
For those who are trying to be registered as a taxpayer, they may have administrative interests where a tax card is one of the requirements.

[YOSHIE]

Let's say a farmer in 1 harvest (3-4 month) earns $2000, he will remain tax free if not registered or he doesn't register it whereas an employee from the start is already registered with the taxpayer even though their monthly salary is $300. What do you think? I'm a little confused with this tax rule.

As far as I know farmers cannot escape the taxes set by the local government, when talking about agricultural product policies, especially in the Asian region such as: Japan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Thailand, philippines, China and others, if you look at the yields, you think the farmers are tax-free, you are wrong, isn't that, the government does not collect taxes directly from the crops for the farmers.

Way Government policies take taxes from farmers' crops.
1. The government will take the VAT rate charged to farmers at the selling price directly to entrepreneurs and agents.
2. Mechanism Other taxes imposed by the government on farmers are calculated in terms of purchasing fertilizers, seeds, and all other needs.

You need to know that all forms of industrial business entities buying and selling farmers' produce do not escape government supervision, all collectors have a minimum tax value of 1% to farmers, whether it's like: rice, rubber, corn, tobacco, coconut, patchouli and so on, whether it's agricultural products from gardens, rice fields, mountains, and so on.

There is no confusion that the government implements a tax policy for the share of farmers' income, everything has been stipulated in the tax laws of each country, they know that agricultural produce is the biggest economic turnover for the government than land, vehicles etc., they will not let farmers escape taxes. there are a thousand ways the government takes taxes from agricultural products.

[stompix]

1. vehicle tax
Obliged to pay once a year, but there are also those who do not pay and the authorities also do not come to the taxpayer's house and in the end it is left abandoned

It depends on the country's laws, but in most of them if you just abandon your vehicle it doesn't mean you stop getting taxed for it, it's still registered in your name it's your property, and you are going to have to pay tax until you void your registration, basically stating that the vehicle is not drivable or roadworthy anymore.

However, there is a provision that if someone has ever borrowed a large amount of money from a bank, even though the borrower was not notified by the taxpayer at first, in the end he was exposed to the taxpayer's accumulation of taxes over the years and he didn't know.

The borrower is the person who took the money, a tax payer is a normal citizen, and the borrower can't be notified by the tax payer more by the tax collecting agency in your country. Second, it doesn't matter if you borrow money or not, taxes are paid if you have any kind of event on hat revenue, and there is no such thing as not knowing about it.
You've earned $1000 from any kind of work, be it selling your crafts or doing a freelance job you must register and pay taxes, unless in your country revenues under a certain amount aren't taxable, but that doesn't matter you don't have to fill your taxation form, even if you're not going to pay a dime.

Let's say a farmer in 1 harvest (3-4 month) earns $2000, he will remain tax free if not registered or he doesn't register it whereas an employee from the start is already registered with the taxpayer even though their monthly salary is $300.

Unless your country clearly states that revenue from farming is not a taxable income for under x amount, what that farmer is doing is tax evasion, in most of your post you're mistaken tax dodging with tax exemption, thinking that if you're not paying it's just like that and it doesn't matter. The inability of your government to catch you doesn't make it legal.

[yhiaali3]

Almost the same for tax laws here in my country, government employees are the most obligated people to pay taxes because the government takes the tax directly from the employees' salaries before it collects them.

This does not mean, of course, that the owner of the car, farms, or other professions do not pay taxes, but there is corruption or complacency by the tax collector, as they sometimes neglect their work, and at other times they ignore the car, land, or commercial store tax in return for giving them an amount of money.

This is what is happening in my country, I don't know, maybe the same thing is happening in your country.

[browsiek]

In my country there are 3 types of taxes including:
1. self-assessment
 namely self-regulated taxation and reporting it to the tax office in the sense that he calculates, pays and reports it himself, the tax authorities only supervise it. Usually this is done by companies or restaurants and crowded places.
2. Official Assessment System
namely the tax party that determines how much to pay, usually this tax collection is for building houses and vehicles which have been determined by the government.
3. Withholding System
namely taxes that are taken care of by a third person, usually this is for income tax which is automatically deducted when we receive a salary so we don't need to take care of it because it has been done by this third person.

For the third tax, this is usually only for people who have a fixed income, while those who work odd jobs are far from tax collection. But with the change in the system, everyone who has an identity card has been registered in the taxation sector, this applies to those who are already working or unemployed.

I mean this tax regulation seems uneven and it seems that people who have to pay taxes are people who deal with large amounts of money. Let's say a farmer in 1 harvest (3-4 month) earns $2000, he will remain tax free if not registered or he doesn't register it whereas an employee from the start is already registered with the taxpayer even though their monthly salary is $300. What do you think? I'm a little confused with this tax rule.

it is indeed unfair for the people who have little income especially since the farmers do not harvest it every day. Therefore, there should be rules on how many producers have to pay taxes so that it is not burdensome for small farmers.

[bittraffic]

Generally, debts or you borrow from some lender or bank, the money is not taxable. There are exemptions. Filing bankruptcy is not taxable as well that's why a lot are filing for bankruptcy if they think can't make it anymore.

But any business as long as the local government sees it making an income can collect tax from the business. If you hide your business, then I guess it's up to you not to pay taxes. They don't encourage people to do that but yep you can get away like the farmer, this probably depend on which country.

[Ultegra134]

Every single thing you purchase has taxes included, also known as VAT. Taxes are necessary to keep a country running. The issue isn't taxes themselves, but that, especially in some countries, the money obtained through them isn't going towards the benefit of the country and the community. For instance, here in Greece, we pay a relatively large amount of money for road tax, but the roads, especially in my area, are in terrible condition. If the money was put to good use, I wouldn't complain about having to pay them, but everything from roads to schools to universities to hospitals is underfunded.

[fuer44]

What you say is a bit confusing.

No. If they do not report their taxes, they are breaking the law. If it were as you say, no self-employed person would declare them.

That's true, like seller in a sideway or micro small businesses, they don't have tax reports to the authorities. But they have to pay to the person in authority in the area (not official from tax office) if i may say so.

However, there is a provision that if someone has ever borrowed a large amount of money from a bank, even though the borrower was not notified by the taxpayer at first, in the end he was exposed to the taxpayer's accumulation of taxes over the years and he didn't know.

Make this clearer because it doesn't make sense.

So, I once met a person at the tax office, he was a rice miller. He had never been to the tax office before and indeed he often borrowed money from the bank if his capital was insufficient. And yesterday when he was about to borrow again, it turned out that he had to pay taxes first which he don't know from the start. He said "if I have to pay this much, I better not borrow money, because I'm old and don't know about this tax".

[fuer44]

1. vehicle tax
Obliged to pay once a year, but there are also those who do not pay and the authorities also do not come to the taxpayer's house and in the end it is left abandoned

Impossible, when someone want to bought a vehicle he need to give his identity and it will recorded if he has a vehicle. So after a year, the tax employee can just contact him through his phone number or come into his house.

That is true, but there is no such action. The only action related to non-payment of vehicle tax is when you drive down the street and meet with the police, the vehicle will be confiscated before paying the tax and fine.

No. If they do not report their taxes, they are breaking the law. If it were as you say, no self-employed person would declare them.

You don't have to swear. Maybe you should tell us where you live to see if we can clarify.

No,  they're not entirely breaking the law if they didn't self reporting their jobs and earning to the tax department, except they're have an intention to escape from tax and create fake story. A self employed person is submitting his identity on the freelance website, so the site already collected all of his identity and how much he make for every day/month/year. I believe the site is working together with the government.

If the bank account of those self employed person receive the money which exceed from the minimum income should be taxed, of course the bank will ask him where he get the money and he should report it to the tax department.

@OP is from Indonesia based on his old post https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1758141.msg19176208#msg19176208

Yes, some of my friends who work in factories also get a small deduction from their salary for taxes, so they don't have to deal with taxes. What bothers me is if a person is not associated with a particular institution or industry, in the sense that he stands alone as I said before he is a farmer, even though he has a large income from crops and is not recorded in the taxpayer, does he have to make his own report or still not paying taxes because he never got the bill?

[fuer44]

Let's say a farmer in 1 harvest (3-4 month) earns $2000, he will remain tax free if not registered or he doesn't register it

You're from Indonesia right? That doesn't mean they're exempt from taxes, the law provides for that with some sanctions. It's just that sanctions aren't properly implemented, especially for the general public (non-civil servants).
For those who are trying to be registered as a taxpayer, they may have administrative interests where a tax card is one of the requirements.

And you must also be from Indonesia right? because you understand a little what I mean. As for the farmer's problem, so far there hasn't been any problem with the tax office and that's true. Even though their income can be said to have exceeded the minimum wage of employees. And from this difference between agency employees or government employees and farmers or freelancers, is this fair for the tax rules?

[Darker45]

This is also true in my country. But I'm sure this kind of poor implementation is not as worse in many developed countries, or perhaps even non-existent.

Where I'm from, tax laws are not that effective also. And for a number of reasons. For one, there are many ways to be dishonest with your income and you will pay only a small amount or none at all. Or you don't declare anything at all and shirk tax responsibilities altogether. Or somebody will do the trimming of taxes for you. Or you're a rich and powerful person that even government authorities won't bother you about taxes. I'm not even saying all these are illegal. After all, tax avoidance is legal.

Indeed, those who are formally employed are the ones who cannot evade because taxes are automatically deducted from their salaries.

[fuer44]

Unless your country clearly states that revenue from farming is not a taxable income for under x amount, what that farmer is doing is tax evasion, in most of your post you're mistaken tax dodging with tax exemption, tinking hat if you're not paying it's just like that and it doesn't matter. The inability of your government to catch you doesn't make it legal.

Yes, I really don't know whether agricultural products are included in the tax payer or not. Because of my ignorance, finally I asked here maybe I will get an answer, whether agricultural or livestock products, whether on a small or large scale, are indeed taxpayers, or not taxpayers. If not taxpayer, then it won't be a problem.

The outline of my question is whether in all countries, farmers, freelancers, or small micro-entrepreneurs who were not previously registered with the taxpayer have to report to the tax, or if they are not registered then they are not subject to the taxpayer?

[stompix]

The outline of my question is whether in all countries, farmers, freelancers, or small micro-entrepreneurs who were not previously registered with the taxpayer have to report to the tax, or if they are not registered then they are not subject to the taxpayer?

There is no general rule for all countries.
I see another user saying you're from Indonesia, I don't speak the language, and I can't find anything on a simple search in google about how that works there but I can tell you how it works in my country, and this is not a general rule even for all the EU.

Any kind of farming you do which only involves utilizing the final crops for personal use, without you at any point engaging in other activity, like for example selling either the strawberries or the strawberry jam, it's not a taxable event and it doesn't need to be declared to the tax revenue services. But they are limits to what is considered personal usage, so you can't plant 2000 ha of corn and say it's for your morning cereals.

If you do sell your products to a third party, thus engaging in a taxable event, you are subject to taxation which works like this:
- your revenue is under a limit (depends on each country), you won't pay taxes but you need to declare the revenue
- your event is over the limit, you're treated like any business and you have to pay your taxes.

So basically, you plant a few melons and you eat yourself in your backyard you don't need to tell anyone, you plant a few and you sell them you need to register but you won't be taxed for 5 euros profit, you plant 100ha and sell them, you're a business and you need to register not only for tax but with the agricultural office also.

Again, and I must mention this, I don't know how the law woks in Indonesia, I'm just telling you from an EU citizen (who is has been for 20 years involved in agriculture) point of view.

[Bialke]

If you do sell your products to a third party, thus engaging in a taxable event, you are subject to taxation which works like this:
- your revenue is under a limit (depends on each country), you won't pay taxes but you need to declare the revenue
- your event is over the limit, you're treated like any business and you have to pay your taxes.

I am sorry, your field/fruit example (for the EU) is not a good explaination, and the quote above is not right!

Agrar fruit and crypto is not the same tax asset. Most of the cryptos are categorized in the same tax asset class as precious metals. The difference is, that you consume food fast, but precious metals is a long term trading value.

So you first point from the quote is right. Under a certain amount of selling profit you does not have to pay taxes. Above you have to pay taxes - But: If you hold that kind of assets 1 year, you also have not to pay taxes for the profits. / Except stable coins and staking (other tax classes).

And if you buy crypto there is no VAT.