Which best for long term investment? Hardware wallet or Software wallet .

[dkbit98]

For people who truly want a hardware wallet without giving up real identity, go to the Dark Markets that sell fake I.D. for Bitcoin. Use fake I.D. to open a P.O. Box in your local post office, use the same fake I.D. to buy your hardware wallet from manufacturer's website.

Why would you go through all this hoops of buying fake ID and paying extra for that and PO box when you can probably find perfectly good hardware wallet in your local area or country?
There are official resellers and it would probably be cheaper to go with low cost flight and buy wallet directly in some other country if it's not available in your own.
Paranoid people can always make their own DIY signing devices, from regular devices like RaspberryPi Zero and similar devices.

[Wind_FURY]

For people who truly want a hardware wallet without giving up real identity, go to the Dark Markets that sell fake I.D. for Bitcoin. Use fake I.D. to open a P.O. Box in your local post office, use the same fake I.D. to buy your hardware wallet from manufacturer's website.

Why would you go through all this hoops of buying fake ID and paying extra for that and PO box when you can probably find perfectly good hardware wallet in your local area or country?

There are official resellers and it would probably be cheaper to go with low cost flight and buy wallet directly in some other country if it's not available in your own.

Paranoid people can always make their own DIY signing devices, from regular devices like RaspberryPi Zero and similar devices.

I was merely posting a work around for those who truly don't want to give up their I.D. to a centralized database controlled by a third party in buying a hardware wallet, ser. If anyone can buy one over the counter using CASH, then that would be the most ideal way to buy one.

Plus it's not really "paranoid". That method of using fake I.D. and opening a P.O. Box is actually a standard safety measure used to buy "something else" from the internet.

[traderethereum]

For now, it's better if you just use a software wallet instead of buying a hardware wallet, but you should be able to secure it from others.
As long as you can secure it, I think the software wallet is safe because I keep some satoshis in it.
So before you have the money to buy that hardware wallet, you can use that software wallet to store your bitcoins.
If you have money, you can buy Ledger or Trezor and many people have recommended both but maybe Trezor is more attractive because it is cheaper.

[dkbit98]

Plus it's not really "paranoid". That method of using fake I.D. and opening a P.O. Box is actually a standard safety measure used to buy "something else" from the internet.

It is paranoid and super expensive doing all this just for one hardware wallet, I am not talking if you are dealing drugs, selling alcohol or nuclear fuel all the time, so you need to have this.
But go ahead and keep recommending people to buy fake ID (aka commit crime) because that is ''standard safety measure'' in your world
What I proposed is 100 times more simpler, cheaper and safer, plus you don't have to commit any crime along the way.

[Wind_FURY]

Plus it's not really "paranoid". That method of using fake I.D. and opening a P.O. Box is actually a standard safety measure used to buy "something else" from the internet.

It is paranoid and super expensive doing all this just for one hardware wallet, I am not talking if you are dealing drugs, selling alcohol or nuclear fuel all the time, so you need to have this.
But go ahead and keep recommending people to buy fake ID (aka commit crime) because that is ''standard safety measure'' in your world
What I proposed is 100 times more simpler, cheaper and safer, plus you don't have to commit any crime along the way.

To give you context, another poster brought up a concern that the biggest problem in purchasing a hardware wallet is privacy-related, because you have to give up your home address, real name and probably other information. I merely suggested a way in how a person can buy one without giving up any real information about himself/herself. You don't have to be angry and nitpicky about it.

[bettercrypto]

Buying a hardware wallet does not mean that you are safe unless your level of awareness increases. without awareness and realizationThe best device will not protect your currencies. Therefore, as long as the amount of 0.01239 BTC is too much for you, spending $60 to buy a hardware wallet is not a big loss.
But if you spend more time to learn, you can create cold stoarge for less than $10 and it will be relatively safe.
These are some links to learn and then create a topic about it and we will help you^[1][2][3]. Again awareness = safety.

[1] https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/coldstorage.html
[2] https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/tails.html
[3] https://github.com/sovereignhodler/tails-cold-storage

So true and I agree, it's better to buy a hardware wallet, do you think it's better to buy a hardware wallet, friend? to be honest, I use an electrum wallet on my desktop, although I'm using it okay because I've been using it for 4 years, as long as it needs to be updated, I update it right away.

      And my password, private key, and the creation of a sign message if needed, I can also do it in the safe. Then it seems that there is a new hardware wallet coming out now and that's what you want to try. Thank you

[Pmalek]

I use an electrum wallet on my desktop, although I'm using it okay because I've been using it for 4 years, as long as it needs to be updated, I update it right away.

Updates rarely fix major vulnerabilities that would result in you losing your crypto unless you install the latest version. It's usually cosmetic changes, new features, speed improvements, etc. It's almost always a user mistake that leads to getting your wallet emptied. Whether you have the newest version or one that is a few months old, you are still using a hot wallet and your keys are online. One slip-up might put your coins jeopardy or worse.   

And my password, private key, and the creation of a sign message if needed, I can also do it in the safe.

Safe? Do you mean safely as in a safe way? Your keys are online, it's as simple as that. They would be safer if they were never online and always in a secure device and its chip. Even better, if they were created in a fully offline and airgapped environment.

[Saint-loup]

To give you context, another poster brought up a concern that the biggest problem in purchasing a hardware wallet is privacy-related, because you have to give up your home address, real name and probably other information. I merely suggested a way in how a person can buy one without giving up any real information about himself/herself. You don't have to be angry and nitpicky about it.

If he thinks it's the biggest problem with hardware wallets he is wrong. Because hardware wallets are usually not air gapped, they are plugged on connected computers. For a long term investment, that's far less safe than any software cold wallet. Because it's not easy at all to check that your hardware wallet is not a fake one, and has not been tampered. Moreover they are not open source, so you'll never know if there are backdoors or latent vulnerabilities into them, that will be discovered and used by someone one day. I would add that even if a manufacturer is reputed, there is no guarantee it will always stay honest (look the Coldkey case for example), and the CEO/management of the company can also change without notice.

[Pmalek]

Moreover they are not open source, so you'll never know if there are backdoors or latent vulnerabilities into them, that will be discovered and used by someone one day.

What part of them are not open-source? There are many open-source hardware wallets on the software side. There aren't many on the hardware level, though. I think Foundation's Passport is the only one with open-source hardware, except the secure element. Someone correct me if I am wrong. I am not sure how far Trezor has gone with the development of their almost fully open-source SE. But if the openness of hardware is a problem, we shouldn't use laptops, PCs, or phones for anything related to personal or financial data, but we still do.   

I would add that even if a manufacturer is reputed, there is no guarantee it will always stay honest (look the Coldkey case for example)

But that was a case of trusting an individual and believing they were honest, which they weren't. Plus, the Coldkey isn't a hardware wallet. It's a card-like paper wallet where someone else generated the keys for you and kept backups of them.

[Saint-loup]

Moreover they are not open source, so you'll never know if there are backdoors or latent vulnerabilities into them, that will be discovered and used by someone one day.

What part of them are not open-source? There are many open-source hardware wallets on the software side. There aren't many on the hardware level, though. I think Foundation's Passport is the only one with open-source hardware, except the secure element. Someone correct me if I am wrong. I am not sure how far Trezor has gone with the development of their almost fully open-source SE. But if the openness of hardware is a problem, we shouldn't use laptops, PCs, or phones for anything related to personal or financial data, but we still do.

Usually the firmware, that is to say the software embedded into the hardware device is not open source, or only partially at most. It's the most critical part since it holds the seed and the private keys, though.
https://cyberscrilla.com/are-ledger-wallets-open-source/
In addition if you can't flash the device with code compiled by yourself, you will never know if the code running into it is the same as the one shown elsewhere, or is another one.  
Bitcoin allows to not have to trust the hardware and software you are using when you create a transaction thanks to the cold storage feature. If you don't connect your air gapped device before sending funds belonging to it elsewhere, you're safe no matter if your set up has been infected or not. So you can use any laptops, PCs, or phones with Bitcoin as long as they are disconnected before creating your seed and remain so until you no longer need the seed.

I would add that even if a manufacturer is reputed, there is no guarantee it will always stay honest (look the Coldkey case for example)

But that was a case of trusting an individual and believing they were honest, which they weren't. Plus, the Coldkey isn't a hardware wallet. It's a card-like paper wallet where someone else generated the keys for you and kept backups of them.

It's rather similar since the manufacturer can leave backdoors into its devices.

[Pmalek]

Usually the firmware, that is to say the software embedded into the hardware device is not open source, or only partially at most. It's the most critical part since it holds the seed and the private keys, though.
https://cyberscrilla.com/are-ledger-wallets-open-source/

I understand what you are saying, but you are using the example of a hardware wallet brand that we know isn't open-source. Ledger uses closed-source firmware and hardware, which includes the secure element. I didn't see anything in that article which wasn't known before. We also know that the individual crypto apps on Ledger and the native software itself are open-source. Any developer can build open-source code for an asset and submit it to Ledger as part of their development program.

I never gave much thought to the bootloader question. But that part is apparently also open-source in selected HWs.

That article you shared makes a mistake toward the end though, when they discuss open-source alternatives. One of the brands they name is ColdCard. ColdCard does not use an open-source license. Their code is public and verifiable, but it's their properly, and you are not allowed to use it for your own products. That's completely different from open-source wallets like Trezor, where you can (if you know how) use the entre codebase and build a brand new product.

[hZti]

Hardware wallets are always better for long term storage, since computers are way less safe.

That article you shared makes a mistake toward the end though, when they discuss open-source alternatives. One of the brands they name is ColdCard. ColdCard does not use an open-source license. Their code is public and verifiable, but it's their properly, and you are not allowed to use it for your own products. That's completely different from open-source wallets like Trezor, where you can (if you know how) use the entre codebase and build a brand new product.

That cold card is not open source may be right, but it is completely irrelevant for the OP. What the OP wants, is to store his bitcoins safely and not a fight about close and open source. For the OP the public code is as good as the open source code of others. The public code may be bad for the industry however, but thats not the topic here.

[Pmalek]

That cold card is not open source may be right, but it is completely irrelevant for the OP. What the OP wants, is to store his bitcoins safely and not a fight about close and open source. For the OP the public code is as good as the open source code of others. The public code may be bad for the industry however, but thats not the topic here.

I think the same way, and I called it politics a few months ago in a similar discussion that popped up concerning ColdCard. If I want to verify the code of a hardware wallet, ColdCard makes that possible. Whose code they used and why they now operate under a different license is not something I should have to concern myself with. They would be open-source in a perfect world because much of their code came from such clients, but nothing in this world is perfect.

[bpkdasbaum]

Not your key not your coins.

Get all coins off exchange. Take self custody.

Get a Ledger or Trezor hardware wallet (This way you can access them anytime). There are a bunch of youtube videos on how they work.

Then make 3 seed backups in steel washers (or titanium). And ideally encrypt them with a simple cipher (or use a passphrase and store that separately)

Low cost, affordable, easily scalable, indestructible, fireproof 1400°C (a house fire is around 1100°C), waterproof, corrosion proof, shock proof, earthquake proof, offline cold wallet, seed or passphrase backup.

https://i.etsystatic.com/41503409/r/il/689efd/4813988559/il_1588xN.4813988559_fcds.jpg
Picture taken from here: https://www.etsy.com/listing/1434977816


More information on that topic here:

https://jlopp.github.io/metal-bitcoin-storage-reviews/
https://incoherency.co.uk/blog/stories/diy-cryptosteel-capsule.html
http://bulletproofbitcoin.com/
https://blog.lopp.net/a-treatise-on-bitcoin-seed-backup-device-design/
https://www.econoalchemist.com/post/backup
https://blockmit.com/english/guides/diy/make-cold-wallet-washers/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5389446.0

[bettercrypto]

From what I've experienced here in cryptocurrency for several years, I haven't faced any issues using Electrum since 2018 until now. Since you're like op I can't focus on spending money to buy a hardware wallet.

      Although, I also believe that it is good to use the hardware wallet as others say here that it is really recommendable. And as for the software wallet, electrum is also recommended here in my opinion and experience here as long as you update it if it says something that should be updated.

[Z-tight]

From what I've experienced here in cryptocurrency for several years, I haven't faced any issues using Electrum since 2018 until now. Since you're like op I can't focus on spending money to buy a hardware wallet.

Electrum is a very good wallet and highly recommended, but it is a hot wallet, and even if the wallet is open source and we are very sure of the code, what about you and your device, is your device free from malwares, do you watch porn on your device, do you click links without giving it a second thought, Electrum is a good software wallet, but if used in an online device, the funds in the wallet are not safe, except it is just a small amount for your daily spending. But for long term and with huge funds, use electrum on one device as a cold storage, generate the seed offline and make sure that device is never connected to the internet, with Wifi disabled and airplane mode turned on, that's where you would sign transactions, then on a second device which is the online one, you use electrum on it for watching only and broadcasting transactions to the network, that is the safest way to use a software wallet if you can't afford a hardware wallet.

Although, I also believe that it is good to use the hardware wallet as others say here that it is really recommendable. And as for the software wallet, electrum is also recommended here in my opinion and experience here as long as you update it if it says something that should be updated.

Updating your wallet sofware regularly is good, but that is not only where the vulnerabilities exists, as long as the device that holds your funds is connected to the internet, there are malwares, keyloggers and other forms of attack vectors waiting to steal your funds.

[taufik123]

Although, I also believe that it is good to use the hardware wallet as others say here that it is really recommendable. And as for the software wallet, electrum is also recommended here in my opinion and experience here as long as you update it if it says something that should be updated.

Updating your wallet sofware regularly is good, but that is not only where the vulnerabilities exists, as long as the device that holds your funds is connected to the internet, there are malwares, keyloggers and other forms of attack vectors waiting to steal your funds.

The internet is the source of everything and it depends on how you use it. The use of Wallet on devices connected to the internet is very vulnerable to being infiltrated by malware. But not without prevention, there are many ways that can be done to keep the device safe from any malware.
The main prevention lies with the users themselves, how they use it and what they access.

Nowadays even malware is getting more sophisticated and unstoppable. Some of the latest malware cases such as Xenomorph are able to steal any information, be it crypto wallets and some bank user information. and Malware is injected into applications that we often use and are hidden, so that they can enter the Play Store. It can even penetrate security with SMS or 2-factor authentication. Malware is now quite powerful and there needs to be prevention from various security.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5444480.msg61893757#msg61893757

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/new-xenomorph-android-malware-targets-customers-of-56-banks/

All security is still quite vulnerable, both hardware wallets and wallet applications.
But the use of the Hardware wallet is still quite recommended as the main storage wallet.

[Husna QA]

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All security is still quite vulnerable, both hardware wallets and wallet applications.
But the use of the Hardware wallet is still quite recommended as the main storage wallet.

Additionally note, if you want to use a hardware wallet for long-term investment needs, I recommend not using a hardware wallet that has a battery feature (which is generally not easy to remove). Example Ledger Nano X:

The battery is designed to last 5 years. Ledger does not provide a battery replacement program. If battery capacity has degraded beyond being practically usable, the device can be used by connecting it to a power source using the USB cable.

However, if you look at the OP in the initial post, he does not have a hardware wallet yet.
Another alternative may be to use the Electrum installed on Tails OS, which is made portable on a flash disk. Of course, the storage location of the seed phrase/private key from the wallet is necessary to pay attention to.

[taufik123]

Additionally note, if you want to use a hardware wallet for long-term investment needs, I recommend not using a hardware wallet that has a battery feature (which is generally not easy to remove). Example Ledger Nano X:\

Thanks for the additional note. Using a hardware wallet with a battery is indeed quite risky to be damaged and is designed for only 5 years of use, as you have an example of the Nano X or as I also have the Safepal S1.

Indeed quite vulnerable, Hardware wallets using batteries that are not turned on for a long time will result in battery life. A real example on the Safepal S1 that I have. When not turned on in a few months the battery turns out to be increasingly wasteful and even when it is Off the battery still decreases. this indicates that the battery has started to be bad. If there is indeed a problem and it becomes hardware that is still in use, you must replace the battery with the same battery model.

As in the safepal discussion thread, I looked for some suitable alternative backup batteries

and then I searched the marketplace for many available batteries of the same size. this makes it possible to replace the safepal battery with another battery of the same type. this would be better than waiting for a refund (for new users) which of course would take quite a long time.


https://id.aliexpress.com/i/32861524014.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2idn

However, if you look at the OP in the initial post, he does not have a hardware wallet yet.
Another alternative may be to use the Electrum installed on Tails OS, which is made portable on a flash disk. Of course, the storage location of the seed phrase/private key from the wallet is necessary to pay attention to.

Making electrum installed in a Flasdisk with Tail OS is a good idea. It can be a Bootable Electrum USB Tail OS that is only used when needed, quite compact only uses flash disk media. This is an option for those who can't afford a hardware wallet.

[aylabadia05]

Updating your wallet sofware regularly is good, but that is not only where the vulnerabilities exists, as long as the device that holds your funds is connected to the internet, there are malwares, keyloggers and other forms of attack vectors waiting to steal your funds.

Every update that we are asked to do by dev must have something new that is good for us as users. Not all software wallets ask for updates if there is nothing important. But yes, every software that is connected to the internet is vulnerable to things that can harm us even though it is not wanted by the dev as the owner of the device.

In the context of security, storing large amounts of assets in software is something we always avoid, especially me.