USA, EU vs RU: sanctions thread, non-censored version

[blablahblah]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/28/ukraine-crisis-economy-idUSL5N0MP1VL20140328

* Price Ukraine pays for Russian gas to rise 80 pct

 

[fsb4000]

By selling gas at the 'wrong' price, Russia is only hurting itself.

The Ukraine will eventually adjust by developing alternative sources of power, including its own gas fields.

However, Russia will have surplus gas, and they'll either have to sell it cheaper elsewhere, or their industry will have to take huge losses by reducing production. It's simple economics. Investors understand that Putin is bad for business, and that explains the recent multi-billion dollar losses on the Russian stock market and with currency exchange rates. But hey, it wouldn't be Russia if the Russians' love for their leader wasn't proportional to their level of suffering.

'wrong' price 
if Russia does not provide a discount and sell at the regular price, is it 'wrong' price???
Really??

[bryant.coleman]

The Ukraine will eventually adjust by developing alternative sources of power, including its own gas fields.

Developing gas fields is a very long task. Usually it takes 10-15 years to develop one, once the deposits are confirmed.

As of now, Ukraine doesn't have any confirmed deposits. So it'll take even more time.

[Rias]

Cat got your tongue, fsb4000?

You guys seem to have SO MUCH TIME to spam 10 ~ 15 other threads, so why not answer my criticism here?

As it stands, Russia's actions are bad for business -- they are hurting themselves economically, and they appear to be driven by emotional, patriotic reasons.

This "economical hurt" is only temporary. US & EU will eventually chill the fuck out and everyone will behave like nothing happened.

[bryant.coleman]

It's easy to check, so why do you bother parroting Russian lies?
Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas_in_Ukraine

First check the facts before accusing someone.

Ukraine consumes close to 60 bcm of natural gas every year, of which 3/4th are imported via Gazprom. To be self-sufficient, they need to develop new fields with 45 bcm capacity.

[Onews1990]

* Price Ukraine pays for Russian gas to rise 80 pct

And in the end Ukrainians and Russians in the future after the sanctionswill be the ones paying the prices...

[bryant.coleman]

I made no claim about 100% self-sufficiency.
Even a small increase of a few %, including alternative sources such as the coal gasification quoted above, would result in 100s of millions, possibly billions of annual losses for Russian investors. It's huge money.

Russians won't mind. They don't have enough gas to ship to China and Japan. Lower consumption in Ukraine will be welcomed by them.

[fsb4000]

CHRISTINE LAGARDE: The economy of Ukraine was going in the wall and was heading for disaster.

It’s an economy that needed reforms, that needed profound transformation of its fiscal policy, of its monetary policy, and of its policies on energy, to mention only the key ones. Without the support that they were getting from this lifeline that Russia had extended a few months ago, they were heading nowhere.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/imf-chief-lagarde-hurdles-blocking-economic-growth/

[fsb4000]

In this sense, Russia has been like a heroin dealer. Sometimes you have to be generous to make sure your loyal customer stays addicted and loyal.

Of course, just  Ukraine changed its heroin dealer. Now it is EU and IMF
About sanctions:
http://top.rbc.ru/economics/04/04/2014/915604.shtml

The world's largest fast-food chain McDonald's has suspended work in the Crimea.

I think only McDonald's profit can decrease due the sanctions...

[bryant.coleman]

That doesn't make sense. If Russia doesn't have enough gas because of Japan and China, simply put up the price and suddenly there is enough gas. And more profit.

It is not that simple. Most of the gas is tied up in long term contracts (where the price of gas is proportional to that of the crude oil) of 10-years and 15-years.

[bryant.coleman]

If what you say is correct, and most of the gas is tied up in long-term contracts with Japan and China

Long-term contracts are with various European nations, not with China / Japan.

[Kiki112]

yeah but it's their gas, they can raise the price if they want to, others are free to purchase from someone else aren't they

it's not like someone is forcing us to buy their gas

can't we just buy gas from some other countries?

[bryant.coleman]

yeah but it's their gas, they can raise the price if they want to, others are free to purchase from someone else aren't they

The problem is that the other option (LNG) is even more expensive.

[minime]

If what you say is correct, and most of the gas is tied up in long-term contracts with Japan and China

Long-term contracts are with various European nations, not with China / Japan.

if the situation gets out of controll i think gas prices will raise or it will go to china instead of eu or both...
germany will probally the biggest looser