Full Node VPN+Tor

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Welsh:
It really depends how much you value your privacy. If you don't want anyone knowing you run a Bitcoin node, it's probably not best to run one. However, if you are set on running one, then the next best option would be via Tor, and only risking your information being retrieved via the exit node.

However, for the majority of people running via clear net is probably okay. As long as your ISP can be trusted, which there's an argument that no third party or ISP can be trusted. It highly depends on your threat model, and who you trust. If you trust your ISP, then there's no real concerns. If you don't trust your security or your ISP security, then if any of those were compromised an attack could potentially find out you run the Bitcoin node, and therefore highly likely to use Bitcoin yourself, which could mean you become a target, theoretically.

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 13, 2023, 07:37:58 PM

why shouldn't you also use VPN as an additional option?

You're basically involving another third party, when you don't necessarily need too. The only way someone knows you're running a Bitcoin node via Tor, would be the exit node itself. Unless, the entity you're trying to hide your Bitcoin node activity from owns that exit node, there's no way of them deciphering what you are doing. If you involve a VPN service, then that VPN service could potentially know you're running a Bitcoin node, as well as the exit node of that Tor circuit.

Your ISP would know you're running Tor, but there's nothing wrong with running Tor, and it doesn't tell the ISP what Tor is being used for. If your ISP thinks it's an issue you're running Tor, change ISP. However, if all depends on who you don't want to know you run a Bitcoin node or own Bitcoin. If it's the government, they will know it's generally considered even the most private persons on the internet can't avoid the government, plus if you live in a country which requires taxation you should be declaring your taxes on Bitcoin to them. If it's your ISP; fair enough, but just use Tor.

ETFbitcoin:
Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 13, 2023, 03:22:29 PM

Do you think it would be better to run the full node over VPN + Tor?

At least for initial sync, i would discourage people to use Tor since it'll take long time and potentially clogging Tor network. VPN with good privacy policy/history should be sufficient for many people.

Quote from: dkbit98 on March 13, 2023, 07:16:17 PM

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 13, 2023, 03:22:29 PM

Or can you run the node over the clearnet without fear?

Running Tor, VPN or Bitcoin node can be interpreted as suspicious behavior in some countries, so don't ask other people if you should fear something.

But take note using VPN usually is considered least suspicious among 3 of those.

Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 13, 2023, 07:37:58 PM

why shouldn't you also use VPN as an additional option?

Tor Project write detailed article about combining Tor and VPN at https://gitlab.torproject.org/legacy/trac/-/wikis/doc/TorPlusVPN. In short, it could weaken your privacy if it's done poorly.

Carlton Banks:
Quote from: Bitcoiner2023 on March 13, 2023, 03:22:29 PM

Or can you run the node over the clearnet without fear?

once BIP324 is merged into the main version of Bitcoin, then clearnet usage will be much harder to detect (BIP324 encrypts node traffic, and does some clever stuff to prevent the handshake/establishment part of the protocol being identifiable as the bitcoin protocol)

you can run it now with the test nodes, but it's probably not such a great idea. the spec is still evolving, and there's only a handful of public nodes running it.

i would hope that other protocols might adopt similar obfuscation (maybe SSH?) as a security measure. it's apparently possible to even send the data in chunks of encrypted packets that resemble other protocols (namely, HTTPS). that would be really good for the resilience of the bitcoin network (which is one downside of using VPN or Tor: the bitcoin network is arguably slightly weakened by every node that connects through such proxies).

there's no timetable for BIP324 being merged that I'm aware of, but it's development has been in the works several (5?) years now.

ETFbitcoin:
Quote from: Carlton Banks on March 14, 2023, 02:48:46 PM

there's no timetable for BIP324 being merged that I'm aware of, but it's development has been in the works several (5?) years now.

BIP324 was created only 4 years ago, but it seems some function for it has been created since 5 years ago[1]. In any case, with amount of open PR/total line changes i don't expect it'll ready anytime soon.

[1] https://bip324.com/sections/code-review/

Carlton Banks:
Quote from: ETFbitcoin on March 15, 2023, 12:45:59 PM

with amount of open PR/total line changes i don't expect it'll ready anytime soon.

[1] https://bip324.com/sections/code-review/

it looks to me as if there are 2 key pull requests that all the remaining ones depend on. although one of those is in the secp256k library, and it constitutes the hot new-ish cryptography that provides some of the cool properties that will make these encrypted connections so difficult to fingerprint. i'd expect anything like that might take many months to get merged (it's ~6 months old as of now).

however, I'm pretty confident it's viable, the secp256k devs probably aren't wasting any time on that kind of work if it's not a serious spec/upgrade

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