Should the forum stop advertising mixers?

[dzungmobile]

Many mixers were seized but it is a first time I read documents mentioned Bitcointalk directly like this by Chipmixer seize.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1574581/download

Should forum admin consider to stop all campaigns related to mixers?

I know forum is against porn campaigns so how about mixers after this fiasco?

when mixing sites get banned here for promoting money laundering

Just in

Mixers will be banned since 1 Jan 2024.
Mixers to be banned

[Charles-Tim]

Do you know the number of scam ads that google may have? Ads can be for scammers.

Mixers are meant for maintaining privacy, but some bad actors can take advantage of that. Mixers should have their own rules and regulations, nothing concerns Bitcointalk.

Mixers are not prohibited by law.

[dzungmobile]

Do you know the number of scam ads that google may have? Ads can be for scammers.

Stop posting shit please. Don't teach me about theory, things on paper.

I am talking about prevention, not want to see the forum seize.

[mindrust]

Holy shit this is pretty serious. It is mindblowing to read a gov paper mentioning btt.

As explained further below, NGUYEN used the moniker “ChipMixer” on the
popular bitcoin message board BitcoinTalk (available at bitcointalk.org). On May 18, 2017

On June 15, 2017, NGUYEN responded to a BitcoinTalk post criticizing
money laundering laws and know-your-customer requirements, stating,

If your money is in a bank, it’s like bitcoin on exchange - you don’t have private
keys. It can be frozen, it can be traced, it can be watched very carefully.

If you have cash, you can do whatever you want. Nobody can invalidate it.
Nobody can track it. Except police that can take it from you.

Bitcoins are better. Nobody knows you have it (unless you use KYC exchange),
you can exchange it for cash wherever you want.

He must have hit a nerve with that post. Gov people lost their shit it seems.  How dare you promote bitcoin as an alternative to the USD? and you say it is even better?

I guess they log everything we say in this forum. Shiet.


To answer your question... I think it is a decision for the admins. If they think advertising mixers would be dangerous for the forum people, then they should ban it. I don't think there is such danger, yet.

[dzungmobile]

I am talking about prevention, not want to see the forum seize.

If you read the unofficial rules of bitcointalk, you will know how shit your post is.

Unofficial means many things can be added.

theymos is flexible and he can change his policy in forum anytime like he stop ads banner auctions months ago.

To answer your question... I think it is a decision for the admins. If they think advertising mixers would be dangerous for the forum people, then they should ban it. I don't think there is such danger, yet.

I don't know but it is serious. I proposed it as a preventive solution for the forum. Theymos and Cyrus will decide. Maybe they must have an internal meeting of admins and global moderators and maybe moderators too.

[Gladitorcomeback]

Many mixers were seized but it is a first time I read documents mentioned Bitcointalk directly like this by Chipmixer seize.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1574581/download

Should forum admin consider to stop all campaigns related to mixers?

I know forum is against porn campaigns so how about mixers after this fiasco?

I don't think it will be profitable at all because Mixer are not a bad thing  itself but offcourse you can use it for bad purpose so. its very bad that Bitcointalk mentioned in this document but these mixers are also available in google search, advertised in twitter and other social Platform then all these platform will ban Mixers Advertising?

[NotATether]

I don't know but it is serious. I proposed it as a preventive solution for the forum. Theymos and Cyrus will decide. Maybe they must have an internal meeting of admins and global moderators and maybe moderators too.

If the administration cannot even create a cyber security and privacy board, then good luck convincing them to take the more laborious action of identifying and banning accounts that support mixers.

Ps. If any admin is reading this, then go approve this (linked) request. It's nearly unanimously agreed on!

[ShowOff]

I can quote something for you, but I don't know what to answer because all the decisions are with the admin.

About privacy

Variation
Variation from the above normal procedure may occur, for example, due to these causes:

• Bitcointalk.org is in US jurisdiction, and is subject to US subpoenas, wiretap orders, preservation orders (which would negate the above retention rules), and similar. Furthermore, our service providers could also be subject to similar orders without our knowledge. Note that we consider PMs to require a warrant in order to be released.
• At our sole discretion, we may voluntarily assist law enforcement worldwide. Generally we do this only when we perceive that the target user has probably committed a serious and non-victimless crime.
• At our sole discretion, we may (noncommercially) share or extend retention on any of a specific user's userdata even without law-enforcement involvement. This is very rare.
• While we don't intentionally set up systems to do so, data may end up laying around for longer than the above-specified retention limits accidentally. For example, a sysadmin might copy the access logs in order to analyze an ongoing DDoS attack and then forget to delete them for a while.
• Computer security can never be guaranteed.

From the above statement, I think we all know that bitcointalk complies with applicable laws in US jurisdictions. If the US government asks bitcointalk to ban that type of advertising then I think there is a possibility for the admin to approve it.

[NotATether]

From the above statement, I think we all know that bitcointalk complies with applicable laws in US jurisdictions. If the US government asks bitcointalk to ban that type of advertising then I think there is a possibility for the admin to approve it.

You said it yourself, this is US jurisdiction, not China. So there will never be a request like that. 

[Falconer]

Should forum admin consider to stop all campaigns related to mixers?

Just stop if it's the last solution. But I don't think forum are going to stop it just because mixer services provide an opportunity for anyone to increase privacy. Abuse of the service should be excluded even if some people use the mixer to obfuscate their bitcoin transactions for prohibited things, the conditions should be the same as when bestmixer was confiscated. This means that the forum doesn't stop advertising other mixers.

So far I haven't gotten any red flags about the existence of a mixer on bitcointalk especially to anyone using it legally.

[Fiatless]

Should forum admin consider to stop all campaigns related to mixers?

Just stop if it's the last solution. But I don't think forum are going to stop it just because mixer services provide an opportunity for anyone to increase privacy. Abuse of the service should be excluded even if some people use the mixer to obfuscate their bitcoin transactions for prohibited things, the conditions should be the same as when bestmixer was confiscated. This means that the forum doesn't stop advertising other mixers.

So far I haven't gotten any red flags about the existence of a mixer on bitcointalk especially to anyone using it legally.

The FBI and other law enforcement agencies are still carrying out investigation therefore it will be too early to conclude the Chipmixer issue. Every product or service can be abused. It is not wise to just stop mixers advertisement because other users in countries outside of the US are not affected by this findings or investigation. The forum is an international platform that is not governed by the laws of any country that is why it might not stop the advertisement of mixers. Mixers are not generally bad but the wrong application of this service is what is giving this service a bad name.

[Smartvirus]

Should forum admin consider to stop all campaigns related to mixers?

I know forum is against porn campaigns so how about mixers after this fiasco?

when mixing sites get banned here for promoting money laundering

Campaigns happens to be one of the things that ain't regulated in the forum, it is besides a project like the lost of others in the bounty board that have been scamming people and a re still scamming people. Mixers are just some way to ensure those who wish to tighten privacy by removing the links to track bitcoin transactions are no more. It has got nothing to do with scam other than render a service to all categories. How you choose to use it is up to you and no fault of there's.

When it comes to money laundering, the idea of cryptocurrency have been accused to have been about money laundering and fraudulent transactions. Do you propose cryptos are banned or stopped based on that fact as has been projected by the government and anti-cryptos?
We can't have that and won't have it.

[Little Mouse]

Forum isn't advertising anything anymore though it promoted mixer back in the day. We, users are promoting mixers. However, I don't think theymos is going to put restrictions on this. He supports freedom, privacy I think. He has also shared a tutorial for a decent mixing. I don't think it's going to happen unless jury force him to do so.

[eaLiTy]

Many mixers were seized but it is a first time I read documents mentioned Bitcointalk directly like this by Chipmixer seize.

Mixers provide security to users who wants privacy and these mixers themselves did not commit any illegal activity, they provided a platform for users to have privacy for their transaction and governments around the world do not like the idea of having privacy and if some propaganda machine says that BTCitcoin or any mixers is used only for illegal activities then that is not a fact.

You are wrong, this is not the first time Bitcointalk is mentioned in a legal case, to refresh your memory it was mentioned in the silkroad case because Ross William Ulbricht pitched the idea here and this wont be the last time it will be mentioned as long as the cryptocurrency market is alive.

[Charles-Tim]

From the above statement, I think we all know that bitcointalk complies with applicable laws in US jurisdictions. If the US government asks bitcointalk to ban that type of advertising then I think there is a possibility for the admin to approve it.

Not yet even up to that.

...want US to ban privacy because of criminal activities. We should not forget this:

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Holy shit this is pretty serious. It is mindblowing to read a gov paper mentioning btt.

It is weird, but this reminds me of what the mainstream media does, which is to bring up a social media post made by some random nobody in the midst of a story about X, and the post will have an extreme opinion about X, giving the impression that it's the general sentiment about X--in other words, they amplify the opinions about subjects they're obviously attempting to take apart when no such amplification is justified.

I haven't read the entire thing, since I'm not handing out cookies or anything else to the DOJ, and that link ends in "download".  But I guess they've got all the major money laundering operations taken care of, so they can devote their time on....wait, is there any data on money laundering with crypto?  With crypto mixers?  I'm not saying there isn't, just that I haven't read anything about it, the extent of the problem, or if there's been any prosecution of criminals engaged in such activity.

[cabron]

Seem very detailed in finding NGUYEN. I couldn't even understand the terms they are saying. For all, we know NGUYEN is also an alias.

But they are monitoring the forum? Yes, this could be serious and might not end well for us if they are going to do something to bitcointalk. The government is looking for ways to really grab the neck of the crypto industry. If for now they are just targeting the advertising of a mixer, they will also be finding faults in the casinos to include it.

[KingsDen]

From the above statement, I think we all know that bitcointalk complies with applicable laws in US jurisdictions. If the US government asks bitcointalk to ban that type of advertising then I think there is a possibility for the admin to approve it.

You said it yourself, this is US jurisdiction, not China. So there will never be a request like that. 

Yes, there will never be a request like that. The worse scenario would be US blacklisting Bitcointalk.org if theymos refuses to comply whatever directive they may give, just as Russia did.

Forum isn't advertising anything anymore though it promoted mixer back in the day. We, users are promoting mixers.

I want to understand the distinct in your analogy here.
Forum stopped advertising mixer but allows individuals to advisertise mixers in the same forum. I think nothing changed.

[armanda90]

Signature campaign of Chipmixer have been paused or ended, actually Bitcointalk is not advertising yet with chipmixer right now after the website have been seized and not appeal from Chipmixer feedback about what their problem facing. I think not impact yet with Bitcointalk forum because the mistake coming from Chipmixer and this forum as third party for advertising only due they have legalize transaction when first time building.

Better waiting with Chipmixer respond and they will try appeal what happen with their website because looking on current signature campaign they have spent much money until running more than three years.

[examplens]

From the above statement, I think we all know that bitcointalk complies with applicable laws in US jurisdictions. If the US government asks bitcointalk to ban that type of advertising then I think there is a possibility for the admin to approve it.

You said it yourself, this is US jurisdiction, not China. So there will never be a request like that. 

Yes, there will never be a request like that. The worse scenario would be US blacklisting Bitcointalk.org if theymos refuses to comply whatever directive they may give, just as Russia did.

ChipMixer worked for almost six years, and only now has it been established that "they were not in accordance with the law". if the authorities did not recognize it for all that time, why would this forum be responsible for it?
Finally, did anyone from the investigation ask for any information from the people involved in the work of the forum?

should this forum take responsibility for all the crap that has happened so far, starting from MtGox to FTX, many discussions were held about all this.