How wide reaching can the consequences of Chipmixer money laundering be?

[PrivacyG]

I open up Bitcoin Talk and see a well known Chip Mixer participant having no Chip Mixer Signature.  I move on to Dark Star's Campaign thread and I see it ended.  What the hell, did I wake up in some parallel universe this morning?

I am so saddened by the news.  Intentionally or not, they are leaving us with fewer and fewer options.  I take the Chip Mixer seizing action and FBI statements with a HUGE pile of salt due to how much these guys HATE us having Privacy and due to how sketchy most of the authorities actions against Cryptocurrency stuff were historically.  We are living a sad moment where some of our team mates are jumping in the boats of the Enemy and others are simply being silenced and incarcerated.  We lost the Silk Road.  We lost Wasabi.  We lost Chip Mixer.  Probably more but this is all that comes up in my mind.  If you take a proper look, you see that we are slowly losing freedom.  This is what should be in your attention, and not this particular event.  Take two steps back and look at the general situation.

You know what.  If there was clear evidence any of them had an implication in such a big percentage of crimes, go for it.  But I think it is extremely unfair.  Fiat and Banks offer a much, much bigger room for crimes than Bitcoin, Wasabi, Chip Mixer or Silk Road did.  Yet, Fiat is still going.  Banks are still running, even if many of them allow Wealthy individuals to use Banks as a way to launder and move illegal money for illegal operations.

But it all goes down to this.  On the facade, FBI seizes businesses and incarcerate their operators showing the World how well intended they are.  The actual situation, to me, sounds much like the contrary.  They are taking away our freedom.  Slowly, steadily, wrongfully.  Political corruption is now known well enough to understand that politics are automatically linked to illegal operations of money.  To theft.  Bribes.  False accusations.  Room for child exploitation with zero consequences.  And so much more.  Chip Mixer did not do as much harm as any of the non Cryptocurrency related events and actions I mentioned in this post are.  This is why I say what FBI is doing is just a facade.  I have no trust in them.  I would have no trust in FBI telling me they are trying to protect me.  I would have no trust in an authority at all.

A sad day for Privacy enthusiasts.  I wish I woke up with different news.  That Wasabi somehow managed to fool them into thinking they jumped to the Enemies but actually using the Enemy to their and our advantage.  That Chip Mixer gained so much traction that FBI is afraid they can do nothing to stop them.  That some miraculous judge orders Ulbricht be free or the illegal vendors of Silk Road served the sentences they deserved instead of him.  But this is reality.  And reality almost always sucks.

I believe no body will go after Chip Mixer participants, unless they can easily link a few users and punish them as a way to frame them and show to the World why you should be afraid.  I rather think their next target is now something much bigger.  Something like this Forum.  They have bigger plans in mind than finding who PrivacyG or a random Chip Mixer participant is.  They need actions that lead to big reactions.

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Regards,
PrivacyG

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Regards,
PrivacyG

[1715472896]

1715472896

[JollyGood]

In which capacity is Wasabi lost? Their website is operational.

We lost Wasabi

[T3PR00T]

In which capacity is Wasabi lost? Their website is operational.

We lost Wasabi

It's not the Wasabi it used to. Common sense 

[mindrust]

Strangely enough, no data was reported from Proton's email, although it was the main email that the team used.

What if I told you protonmail was just another FBI trap to lure the criminals in? How do you know they aren't?

Here is another example:

There was a browser plugin called "ghostery". It was supposed to stop google from collecting your data and guess what happened... They logged your information instead and sold them to another 3rd party (at least that's what I've read about them)
https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/1gmxdz/consumer_affairs_ghosterys_shady_sells_your_data/

Ghostery is a widget users can install in their web browsers, and it's made by a company called Evidon.

Evidon helps companies that want to improve their use of tracking code by selling them data collected from the 8 million Ghostery users who have enabled the tool's data sharing feature

https://www.businessinsider.com/evidon-sells-ghostery-data-to-advertisers-2013-6


What about NordVPN?

I am damn sure I read something about them not being as anonymous as they advertise themselves to be. Let's pretend I didn't. Would you trust NordVPN's services if you were into any illegal shit?


The moral of the story here is you cannot trust any service or any company which claims to protect your privacy. You are just making yourself an easy target especially if you are dealing with any kind of shady shit. They will let you watch porn and pretend you aren't jerking off to it and that's it. Even watching porn might get you into trouble depending on the type you are into.

Believing that protonmail is a safe privacy email service is like believing everything the TV tells you.   

- This is the most anonymous email service!
+ Why? How do you know?
- Are you blind? It says it on its cover!!

[GeorgeJohn]

In this case I have not seen the reason while FBI will investigate the participants of chipmixer in bitcointalk, besides participants have no agreement or arrangements with the clients of chipmixer, so I believe that the only person that will held responsible if the investigation should move further is the chipmixer not the participants of chipmixer signatures, participants have not committed any crime, another reason its impossible to trapped participants of chipmixer because they're from different dominations and they payout is small fraction compared to the funds involved.

[Pokapoka124]

I don’t see any reason why the FBI will want to go after participants of Chipmixer signature campaign. I will miss seeing members wear the Chipmixer signature, I always look forward to their replies because it’s always constructive and on point. Chipmixer was one of the biggest and high paying campaigns on the forum which made a campaign for high quality members. It’s not surprising that some people are happy that others can’t earn from the campaign.

[ChiBitCTy]

There is absolutely 0% chance the FBI or whatever other regulatory body this may fall under, goes after sig wearers. ZERO chance. If anyone is actually worried, don’t be. I wouldn’t lose a half second of sleep.

[_BlackStar]

I don’t see any reason why the FBI will want to go after participants of Chipmixer signature campaign.

Same here, and somehow this sort of thing gets discussed and come to the attention of the public.
I see no reason why CM participants should be responsible and accept the consequences for what they have carried in their signatures for several years. Even if CM is being used by criminals, I believe CM campaigns on forums are to help anyone wishing for better privacy.

I do not support money laundering, however, the perpetrators use any means including abusing mixer or casino services to complete their mission. It's unavoidable, in any case.

[JollyGood]

I have been reading various comments posted in the forum in the past where Chipmixer was alleged to have been a honeytrap. Some of the conspiracy theorists even said the forum was purchased by big corporations and are using it for nefarious purposes:

@theymos: False allegations made against theymos and BCT forum - by Vispilio

Until you mentioned it I probably never heard of Ghostery but as with all browser add-ons they can read your browsing history and do much more.

Regarding NordVPN, there have been rumours about them too but they have passed annual security audits regularly. As for Protonmail, apart from the time they gave the IP address to the French authorities of the person in question and when it was leaked in the media Proton clarified their position by saying they were compelled by Swiss law to hand the information over to the French police but said if the person in question had used a VPN they would have given that IP address instead.

Proton also seem to have kept certain metadata and other information which was not encrypted. Proton also said the email content was encrypted and not released to the French police. Since then there are not any rumours about their email or VPN service but they removed their no IP logging claim.

Still, I would advise to take caution and to not put blind trust in any online company.

What if I told you protonmail was just another FBI trap to lure the criminals in? How do you know they aren't?

Here is another example:

There was a browser plugin called "ghostery". It was supposed to stop google from collecting your data and guess what happened... They logged your information instead and sold them to another 3rd party (at least that's what I've read about them)
https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/1gmxdz/consumer_affairs_ghosterys_shady_sells_your_data/

Ghostery is a widget users can install in their web browsers, and it's made by a company called Evidon.

Evidon helps companies that want to improve their use of tracking code by selling them data collected from the 8 million Ghostery users who have enabled the tool's data sharing feature

https://www.businessinsider.com/evidon-sells-ghostery-data-to-advertisers-2013-6


What about NordVPN?

I am damn sure I read something about them not being as anonymous as they advertise themselves to be. Let's pretend I didn't. Would you trust NordVPN's services if you were into any illegal shit?


The moral of the story here is you cannot trust any service or any company which claims to protect your privacy. You are just making yourself an easy target especially if you are dealing with any kind of shady shit. They will let you watch porn and pretend you aren't jerking off to it and that's it. Even watching porn might get you into trouble depending on the type you are into.

Believing that protonmail is a safe privacy email service is like believing everything the TV tells you.    

- This is the most anonymous email service!
+ Why? How do you know?
- Are you blind? It says it on its cover!!

[PrivacyG]

Of course.  None of us shall ever trust a company for what they claim.  Even if they can prove most of their claims, unless every single thing is verifiable one shall be naive to trust.

My prediction is we will find ourselves disappointed in a matter of years with a lot of companies.  I expect many of those companies claiming to respect Privacy of their users to trait us.  I expect many of them to be honey pots.  Unfortunately, I truly do believe that any body like me and you, regular people, would be silenced if we attempted to build something like Proton Mail, Chip Mixer or Bitcoin.  You have to be very smart to do this in such a way you do not get traced down and framed for your actions and ideas.  They are evidently drooling to find Satoshi and a way to untangle Coin Joins (JoinMarket ones now at least), Lightning Network and Monero.  There is a strong thirst for ways to demolish anything that can build Privacy.

I used Chip Mixer before.  But I never researched the way they function.  Now that it has been seized, is there any chance FBI gets to untangle previous transactions?

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[joker_josue]

I used Chip Mixer before.  But I never researched the way they function.  Now that it has been seized, is there any chance FBI gets to untangle previous transactions?

I think this is unlikely to happen. Unless you really find some records, and you have moved very high values. Even so, it would be very difficult for them to find out who it was. And that would take a long time.

At this point they already have what they wanted, you just have to get it. When they capture the owner of ChipMixer, they'll want to make an example of him.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

At this point they already have what they wanted, you just have to get it. When they capture the owner of ChipMixer, they'll want to make an example of him.

And how are they going to achieve it? Death sentence or life time behind the bar? I don't think much is going to happen. He will give them a lot of money they will reduce the bar time only if they can catch him. Considering the wealth the guy can easily change his identity, facial even physical structure those we see on the sci-fi  movies LOL.

My point is, they want to hold of as many Bitcoin as they can and make Bitcoin unusable. The market will decide the effect though.

[joker_josue]

My point is, they want to hold of as many Bitcoin as they can and make Bitcoin unusable. The market will decide the effect though.

In reality I think what they want is an opportunity to get Bitcoins and make money. 

Curiously, yesterday I came across a very funny news: Legal Money Laundering: How A German Bank Is Cleaning Tainted Bitcoin And Other Dirty Cryptos

[The Sceptical Chymist]

The FBI and the Justice do not have jurisdiction when it comes to internet marketing and third-party advertisement, if there is a ruling, the big question is who are covered by this ruling, and how are they going to implement this.

Well I'm sure some alphabet agency would have the authority to go after internet forum members if the government wanted to go that far, but as has been pointed out the funds that were used to advertise Chipmixer were minuscule in comparison to what they've already seized.  And frankly I just don't think that's going to happen.  Campaign participants rented out their signature space to a company that presumably they believed was doing business legally--but that's my opinion, and I don't have a good grasp of what the law is for stuff like this.

It'll be interesting to see what kind of defense the accused owner puts up.  Hopefully he's got enough money to hire a good lawyer after all those assets got ganked by the cabal of governments behind the investigation.  I say let justice take its course, but I'm also aware that defense attorneys are there for a reason, i.e., to challenge accusations that may or may not be true.

But it ain't looking good right now.

[Rikafip]

It'll be interesting to see what kind of defense the accused owner puts up.  Hopefully he's got enough money to hire a good lawyer after all those assets got ganked by the cabal of governments behind the investigation. 

Well they will have to catch him first. Afaik he is still at large and with the amount of money he (probably) has, he can stay hidden for quite a while. Or I misunderstood something and they got him already?

[JollyGood]

Well they will have to catch him first. Afaik he is still at large and with the amount of money he (probably) has, he can stay hidden for quite a while. Or I misunderstood something and they got him already?

At the moment the news appears to be that the whereabouts of the owner of Chipmixer remains unknown. Maybe he has enough funds to remain hidden from any authorities chasing him but at some point he will end up getting caught or he will surrender voluntarily.

Do you think there could be any sort of plea bargain offered?

Chipmixer allegedly laundered approximately $3 billion but if the owner of Chipmixer is privy to certain information that could get criminals arrested (or if he has a vast amount of crypto from those mixes that he is willing to hand over) then it makes this case even more interesting.

[Rikafip]

At the moment the news appears to be that the whereabouts of the owner of Chipmixer remains unknown. Maybe he has enough funds to remain hidden from any authorities chasing him but at some point he will end up getting caught or he will surrender voluntarily.

Why are you so sure that he will either get caught or surrender? Its obviously not easy to reach this guy because if it was, wouldn't they actually track him and arrest first before going public with all this and giving him an opportunity to run.

[JollyGood]

Nobody knows how much money the Chipmixer owner has access to or even where he is currently hiding but apart from getting caught or surrendering, what other options are there? If he is looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life it cannot be good for both physical and mental health regardless of the amount of funds he might have access to.

He should consider preparing a legal defence team (he probably has enough funds to hire the best legal experts) and then make a deal with the US authorities to find a solution.

I cannot recall properly but was the main reason scammer Paul Vernon the owner/operator of Cryptsy exchange never arrested because he ended up in China out of the way of US extradition treaties?

Why are you so sure that he will either get caught or surrender? Its obviously not easy to reach this guy because if it was, wouldn't they actually track him and arrest first before going public with all this and giving him an opportunity to run.

[nutildah]

Why are you so sure that he will either get caught or surrender? Its obviously not easy to reach this guy because if it was, wouldn't they actually track him and arrest first before going public with all this and giving him an opportunity to run.

This is true, but he's wanted by the FBI. His chances of never getting caught are slim.

Regardless of anybody's personal opinions about the legality of the mixer service itself, the US government has declared it illegal and him worth going after. Being an identity thief isn't helping his case. Would it have been possible for him to run his operation without stealing the identities of others? Possibly not, but that's besides the point.

[NotATether]

Chipmixer allegedly laundered approximately $3 billion but if the owner of Chipmixer is privy to certain information that could get criminals arrested (or if he has a vast amount of crypto from those mixes that he is willing to hand over) then it makes this case even more interesting.

They seized the site data, so they could find such info themselves. He himself probably doesn't have anything useful to offer because criminals would deal with the site, not him directly.