What are the dangers of mixer/tumblers

[Ferib]

Hi folks, I was looking around into Mixers/Tumblers the other day and stumbled upon some very good research like the zk-SNARKs and TumbleBit. Two technologies that 'obfuscate' transactions, making blockchain analysis a guess fest.

My interest in the mixer is in Bitcoin forks and nothing fancy like Ethereum (which has zero-trust mixers based on zk-SNARKs like Tornado cash AFAIK) but when looking into existing online mixers they all appear to be 'send me coins and I promise I will send them back' kind of vibe.

Aren't there any zero-trust mixers for Bitcoin or Bitcoin forks? or have I been looking in the wrong direction?

Also, could multi-sig transactions with two or more participants (using a pre-defined amount of assets, ideally inputs are dividable by each other, eg, a multitude of 0.001) be used to obscure transaction histories?

[cryptoresearcher2]

Another way would be to use trustless bridges, bridge to monero and out to another chain.
Mixers will keep getting handicapped by governments and regulations.

[ANSEL_2.0]

Coin mixing services allows you to make transactions anonymously, but bad actors have keep using this services for criminal activities, that's why the government are going after any mixer services in crypto space, I would refer to use Bitcoin lightning network instead, it's a safer option as this ensures privacy for any Bitcoin transactions.

[hd49728]

when looking into existing online mixers they all appear to be 'send me coins and I promise I will send them back' kind of vibe.

From this, there are many scam mixers, tumblers in history. You send them coins and never receive any coin back.

Another serious issue with third-party mixer/ tumbler is you never know what they do with user data including yours. They can write in their service terms that they will delete all log data after each session like 7 days but in reality, they might not fulfill it for their users.

Recently when Chipmixer was sezied, from report we can see there are 7TB data gotten by authorities.

[Fundamentals Of]

If zero trust is your standard, I guess you cannot find one exactly. I am not familiar with each and every Bitcoin or Bitcoin fork mixers, but there are only a handful of them. And with the loss of Chipmixer, I guess what's left are a handful of smaller actors. But it can't be zero trust when you are required to send them your coins in the first place. And as mentioned by hd49728, you will also trust that these tumblers would be true to their words that logs will be deleted.

[Asuspawer09]

Hi folks, I was looking around into Mixers/Tumblers the other day and stumbled upon some very good research like the zk-SNARKs and TumbleBit. Two technologies that 'obfuscate' transactions, making blockchain analysis a guess fest.

My interest in the mixer is in Bitcoin forks and nothing fancy like Ethereum (which has zero-trust mixers based on zk-SNARKs like Tornado cash AFAIK) but when looking into existing online mixers they all appear to be 'send me coins and I promise I will send them back' kind of vibe.

Aren't there any zero-trust mixers for Bitcoin or Bitcoin forks? or have I been looking in the wrong direction?

Also, could multi-sig transactions with two or more participants (using a pre-defined amount of assets, ideally inputs are dividable by each other, eg, a multitude of 0.001) be used to obscure transaction histories?

I wouldn't recommend suspicious mixers since it is just so easy to scam people on this kind of website, when you send your funds to them they just don't send it back to you. There are actually tons of scam mixer websites so just avoid them completely :Scams Bitcoin Mixers List and Services closed.

There are also chances to get involved in some illegal transactions because the mixer was used to not detect its history so it was used in a lot of them so it's always a big risk especially if you're going to send big funds. So I suggest just using mixers that the forum trusts so you would actually get scammed since there are members that already tried using that mixer, But still, be careful recently Chipmixer is one of the most popular mixers here in the forum was shut down and probably related to the illegal transaction so I guess just do a lot of research first before doing it as long as you finished your transaction it doesn't really matter.

[Luffygroove]

There are various zero-trust mixers for Bitcoin and Bitcoin forks available, but they are not as extensively utilized as centralized mixers that rely on third-party trust. JoinMarket, which employs a CoinJoin mechanism to allow several users to mix their transactions together in a way that obscures their history, is one example of a zero-trust mixer for Bitcoin. Wasabi Wallet, for example, employs a Chaumian CoinJoin approach that similarly obscures transaction history.

Multi-signature transactions can give an extra degree of protection to transactions, however they do not always obfuscate transaction histories. Multi-sig transactions require many parties to sign off on a transaction, which can assist to avoid fraud and enhance security. Yet, because the transaction history remains public on the blockchain, it does not obfuscate transaction histories in the same manner as zero-trust mixers do.

[Apocollapse]

I think zero trust mixers aren't anonymous enough because it just increase your privacy, make it harder to track where is the original source of your coins. Unfortunately the best Bitcoin mixer has been seized, now there are still many mixers you can use but each mixer work in a different way 2023 List Bitcoin Mixers Bitcoin Tumblers Websites.

I'm not quite understand enough about multi-sig transactions, but my assumption it's still not enough to obscure your original transaction histories.

[vv181]

My interest in the mixer is in Bitcoin forks and nothing fancy like Ethereum (which has zero-trust mixers based on zk-SNARKs like Tornado cash AFAIK) but when looking into existing online mixers they all appear to be 'send me coins and I promise I will send them back' kind of vibe.

Aren't there any zero-trust mixers for Bitcoin or Bitcoin forks? or have I been looking in the wrong direction?

Seems what you found is a centralized mixer. The recent prominent one goes bust, but there are other options. You can take a look at other services that are advertised here, but just do in mind it is still a centralized option.

If you want to find a solution without centralized intermediaries or any trust, yes, there are a few options. In Bitcoin, there is a thing called Coinjoin, and various implementation of Coinjoin also exists, like Joinmarket, Wasabi, and Whirlpool. Each platform has its own advantages and disadvantages. Specifically about Wasabi, note that it recently implement shady features that you should take a look at before you want to use it.

[DeathAngel]

There are lots of risks involved with using mixers/tumblers. Firstly I just hope that you’re using them for privacy & not for crime or some other kind of illicit activity.

There are many risks as I said, some are that you might end up receiving dirty coins that have been used in crime, then when you deposit them to an exchange to sell they get confiscated/seized.

Another risk is like with the well known mixer Chipmixer, it gets seized just as you are mixing coins. You could lose your money. Basically unless you are very serious about privacy I advise you not to use them.

[livingfree]

With the recent news about Chipmixer, there will be some doubts of using them because you'll never know if the next mixer that you'll use is gonna be freezed and seized by the government.

There are some competitors that have existed and you can try them and they're running signature campaigns, I think they're 3 of them.

Apart from that, you can use some anonymous coins like Monero if you're really for the privacy.

[jrrsparkles]

Hi folks, I was looking around into Mixers/Tumblers the other day and stumbled upon some very good research like the zk-SNARKs and TumbleBit. Two technologies that 'obfuscate' transactions, making blockchain analysis a guess fest.

My interest in the mixer is in Bitcoin forks and nothing fancy like Ethereum (which has zero-trust mixers based on zk-SNARKs like Tornado cash AFAIK) but when looking into existing online mixers they all appear to be 'send me coins and I promise I will send them back' kind of vibe.

Aren't there any zero-trust mixers for Bitcoin or Bitcoin forks? or have I been looking in the wrong direction?

Also, could multi-sig transactions with two or more participants (using a pre-defined amount of assets, ideally inputs are dividable by each other, eg, a multitude of 0.001) be used to obscure transaction histories?

The purpose of mixers is to eliminate the existing traces that linked with bitcoins in many different ways, well its not 100% privacy but increased privacy like something is better than nothing. Recently one of the biggest bitcoin mixture were seized and the reputation of altcoin mixing services are that familiar so the best possible way to to mix couns by trading it for other cryptocurrency and convert it back if you want on platforms where KYC is not mandatory.

[woez]

Mixers or tumblers are services that allow users to mix their Bitcoin transactions with those of other users to obscure the source and destination of funds. While mixers can be useful for maintaining privacy, there are also some potential dangers associated with using them. There are several services that claim to offer this level of security, but it is important to be careful of any claim that the mixer is completely secure or anonymous and at worst is blacklisted by exchanges and other service providers.

[wxa7115]

There are lots of risks involved with using mixers/tumblers. Firstly I just hope that you’re using them for privacy & not for crime or some other kind of illicit activity.

There are many risks as I said, some are that you might end up receiving dirty coins that have been used in crime, then when you deposit them to an exchange to sell they get confiscated/seized.

Another risk is like with the well known mixer Chipmixer, it gets seized just as you are mixing coins. You could lose your money. Basically unless you are very serious about privacy I advise you not to use them.

Another risk is that by using a mixer for privacy purposes you end up sending your coins to a website that is a trap created by governments, so not only you get no additional privacy at all but now you are on their list as a suspicious person for using those services.

And if at some point your identity is linked to those coins then you could receive a visit by the security agency of your country and you will have to give a lot of explanations about what you are doing online.

[Abiky]

Hi folks, I was looking around into Mixers/Tumblers the other day and stumbled upon some very good research like the zk-SNARKs and TumbleBit. Two technologies that 'obfuscate' transactions, making blockchain analysis a guess fest.

My interest in the mixer is in Bitcoin forks and nothing fancy like Ethereum (which has zero-trust mixers based on zk-SNARKs like Tornado cash AFAIK) but when looking into existing online mixers they all appear to be 'send me coins and I promise I will send them back' kind of vibe.

Aren't there any zero-trust mixers for Bitcoin or Bitcoin forks? or have I been looking in the wrong direction?

Also, could multi-sig transactions with two or more participants (using a pre-defined amount of assets, ideally inputs are dividable by each other, eg, a multitude of 0.001) be used to obscure transaction histories?

The only "zero trust" mixers I know of are those built into the Wasabi and Samourai wallets (in the case of Bitcoin). There was something called "Tumblebit", but it seems development stopped for a while ago (also a Bitcoin mixer). For ETH, there's a "Zero-Knowledge" mixer called Tornado.Cash but it got sanctioned by the US. Some developers forked Tornado.Cash and made a new mixer called "Privacy Pools", but I'm yet to see how long will it last.

I guess the risk of using a mixer is being "flagged" by the government as they believe you're doing something suspicious such as money laundering or tax evasion. With governments hunting down mixers lately, I'd steer clear from them just to avoid bringing unwanted attention. Hopefully, privacy will survive as defenders oppose governments' actions in the long run. Who knows if they'll give up in their efforts to eliminate privacy in crypto for good? Just my thoughts

[Apocollapse]

Mixers or tumblers are services that allow users to mix their Bitcoin transactions with those of other users to obscure the source and destination of funds. While mixers can be useful for maintaining privacy, there are also some potential dangers associated with using them. There are several services that claim to offer this level of security, but it is important to be careful of any claim that the mixer is completely secure or anonymous and at worst is blacklisted by exchanges and other service providers.

Any person who have use mixer or tumbler know if centralized exchange, bank, and government are blacklist mixing usage because it can be used to money laundering. This is we have an option to use decentralized exchange and cash out without bank, but it's hard since you need to find someone who's willing to trade with you. Mixing isn't make your transaction secure, but it just to increase your privacy into 100% anonymity.

[KaliLinux]

Mixers or tumblers are services that allow users to mix their Bitcoin transactions with those of other users to obscure the source and destination of funds. While mixers can be useful for maintaining privacy, there are also some potential dangers associated with using them. There are several services that claim to offer this level of security, but it is important to be careful of any claim that the mixer is completely secure or anonymous and at worst is blacklisted by exchanges and other service providers.

This is we have an option to use decentralized exchange and cash out without bank, but it's hard since you need to find someone who's willing to trade with you.

I do understand the whole concept of mixers and I have always wondered why that. If there is nothing to hide, why will I go through the risk of losing my Bitcoin if I might not get them back? Coming back to your statement, you do understand that has been the problem with Bitcoin transactions or Crypto in general, how many places can we spend crypto for now or how easy can you find someone that you can trade in exchange for goods/services? even after using the DEX, you still need the bank at least for now may be it might change in the future.

[kaseygriffin]

Mixers or tumblers are services that allow users to mix their Bitcoin transactions with those of other users to obscure the source and destination of funds. While mixers can be useful for maintaining privacy, there are also some potential dangers associated with using them. There are several services that claim to offer this level of security, but it is important to be careful of any claim that the mixer is completely secure or anonymous and at worst is blacklisted by exchanges and other service providers.

This is we have an option to use decentralized exchange and cash out without bank, but it's hard since you need to find someone who's willing to trade with you.

I do understand the whole concept of mixers and I have always wondered why that. If there is nothing to hide, why will I go through the risk of losing my Bitcoin if I might not get them back? Coming back to your statement, you do understand that has been the problem with Bitcoin transactions or Crypto in general, how many places can we spend crypto for now or how easy can you find someone that you can trade in exchange for goods/services? even after using the DEX, you still need the bank at least for now may be it might change in the future.

The point is, looking at the standards that people set here, I realize that the risk or benefit depends on how we do it.
There are many different use cases here, and it's not made to serve any particular purpose, some really useful and some shady.
I have heard about the ChipMixer crypto mixer crash, but I only see one-sided information that is alleging money laundering, I don't deny it but looking at the way they charged the whole thing made me laugh.

[el kaka22]

I guess that there isn't really any "danger" if you are a regular person, it doesn't matter to me nor anyone of you.

However, the bad people in the world, cartels, terrorists, mafia, whatever you can think of could start using it, or maybe some of them already uses it and that's a danger to the government because it's their job to stop them. That doesn't change anything in my life, I still live the same exact life as I was living, but it makes the job of government a bit harder because now it's not cash they need to follow, it's bitcoin and other crypto, and if they are using mixers then it is hard to follow that cash. Hence, it's a risky business.

[Johnyz]

Mixers or tumblers are services that allow users to mix their Bitcoin transactions with those of other users to obscure the source and destination of funds. While mixers can be useful for maintaining privacy, there are also some potential dangers associated with using them. There are several services that claim to offer this level of security, but it is important to be careful of any claim that the mixer is completely secure or anonymous and at worst is blacklisted by exchanges and other service providers.

Any person who have use mixer or tumbler know if centralized exchange, bank, and government are blacklist mixing usage because it can be used to money laundering. This is we have an option to use decentralized exchange and cash out without bank, but it's hard since you need to find someone who's willing to trade with you. Mixing isn't make your transaction secure, but it just to increase your privacy into 100% anonymity.

Top mixer are being sued by the government now because of fraud issue so it will be hard to spot a good one if you still concern about your privacy. Dealing to someone is not safe as well, you can’t fully trust their statement alone, it should be based on their trust rating as well. If your purpose is privacy, then try to use other platform who offers this kind of services, just try it for a few bucks and see how it works.