ledger nano with electrum - from old to new PC

[balladofjpeg]

Hi there,
back in 2017 or 2018 I bought a ledger nano to put bitcoin. I did an installation with electrum and haven't touched anything since. Never updated electrum and never updated ledger (no ledger live etc). Never got back online with wallet and never put ledger in pc. In short a true and pure hodl.
Recently though, the pc where I installed electrum is quite unusable, I wanted to figure out how to install on a new pc to transfer also something left in exchange.
Clearly I have the seed/pin and access to the ledger, is it necessary to have the deviation path? does anyone know an easy guide to install?
I tried a quick search but couldn't find it, although I guess it's a trivial and boring topic, sorry.
thanks
b.

[bitmover]

Download electrum new version here:

https://electrum.org/#download

Follow these steps to connect ledger and electrum
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005161925-Set-up-and-use-Electrum


Optional but recommended:

It is very likely that you will have to update your ledger nano firm were. Your device will most likely reset, as there is a long time you don't use it.

Only do this if you have the seed with you.

Download ledger live and update the firmware:

https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002731113-Update-Ledger-Nano-S-firmware

[DireWolfM14]

Electrum may connect to the Ledger without a firmware update, it's worth trying it first.  If you have any trouble connecting, then you'll need to use Ledger Live to update the firmware.

Recently though, the pc where I installed electrum is quite unusable

You may be able to pull the hard drive from your old PC and extract the wallet file, if you feel it's worth the trouble.  Of course you can use the Ledger to create a new Electrum wallet file, but any labels you applied to addresses or transactions will be lost, and any frozen coins or addresses will no longer be locked.

As for "accounts" created through derivation paths, if you used multiple derivation paths, you'll need to create a new Electrum wallet file for each one.

[balladofjpeg]

Thanks for your reply. I start so from here?

Electrum may connect to the Ledger without a firmware update, it's worth trying it first.  If you have any trouble connecting, then you'll need to use Ledger Live to update the firmware.

You may be able to pull the hard drive from your old PC and extract the wallet file, if you feel it's worth the trouble.  Of course you can use the Ledger to create a new Electrum wallet file, but any labels you applied to addresses or transactions will be lost, and any frozen coins or addresses will no longer be locked.

I have no frozen coins or adresses. I used it only once: initialized ledger, created an electrum wallet, created 3/4 addresses, sent satoshi; and never touched it again so far.

Download electrum new version here:

https://electrum.org/#download

Follow these steps to connect ledger and electrum
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005161925-Set-up-and-use-Electrum

do i need anything specific compared to the old electrum wallet? do i reinstall the new version directly? does the old one get overwritten? do i need to save anything?

Optional but recommended:

It is very likely that you will have to update your ledger nano firm were. Your device will most likely reset, as there is a long time you don't use it.

Only do this if you have the seed with you.

I have seed (from ledger)

Download ledger live and update the firmware:

https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002731113-Update-Ledger-Nano-S-firmware

So is it important in the future to continue to update ledger and electrum?

is there anything that can go wrong with the procedure? (yes I left everything there so as not to do something stupid)

[bitmover]

Download electrum new version here:

https://electrum.org/#download

Follow these steps to connect ledger and electrum
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005161925-Set-up-and-use-Electrum

do i need anything specific compared to the old electrum wallet? do i reinstall the new version directly? does the old one get overwritten? do i need to save anything?

You can Uninstall the old one. If it is a stand alone version  just delete the file.

So is it important in the future to continue to update ledger and electrum?

is there anything that can go wrong with the procedure? (yes I left everything there so as not to do something stupid)

New versions are always safer to use, because they fiz vulnerabilities and bugs.

Just have the seed with you,  because you may lose your coins if you reset the device and the seed is missing

[Husna QA]

So is it important in the future to continue to update ledger and electrum?

You don't have to update Ledger or Electrum every time there is a new update. But what needs are whether the update includes the urgent or not.
For example, when you use Electrum versions older than 3.3.4, currently that version is vulnerable to phishing (https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/issues/4968). You should immediately use the above or the last version.

[BitMaxz]

do i need anything specific compared to the old electrum wallet? do i reinstall the new version directly? does the old one get overwritten? do i need to save anything?

As mentioned earlier you can uninstall it and install the latest version but you don't need to uninstall them if you want to use the latest version just install it and it would upgrade automatically to the latest version while keeping all of the synced data intact, including your wallet file so that you don't need to recreate your wallet.

[Pmalek]

So is it important in the future to continue to update ledger and electrum?

It's generally always better to use an up-to-date software than an outdated one. New versions include better stability, performance updates, bug & vulnerability fixes, new and improved features, etc.

When it comes to Ledger HWs, there are 3 things that can be updated.

• The native Ledger Live app
• The Bitcoin coin app
• The firmware of the device

If you wait too long, you might reach a point where you wont be able to use your Nano to update it to the latest firmware. Question is, will the old ones still be useful? To avoid potential trouble, update it. Update the BTC on-Ledger coin app as well. I am not sure if you need the newest Ledger Live versions before being offered a firmware upgrade. I never tested it.

is there anything that can go wrong with the procedure?

Worst case scenario, you brick the device and it breaks, becoming useless. Happens rarely. A more common issue (happened only once to me) is that the device wipes its memory clean after the upgrade. No need to worry if that happens. Just recover your accounts from seed and you are good to go.

For example, when you use Electrum versions older than 3.3.4, currently that version is vulnerable to phishing (https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/issues/4968). You should immediately use the above or the last version.

It's worth mentioning that those older Electrum versions can no longer connect to Electrum servers so they can't get the phishing messages that point unsuspecting users to fake phishing sites anymore. 

[balladofjpeg]

Thank you all, much appreciated.
it might be an idea to try the procedure of doing it with a new ledger?
So as to have a kind of backup copy?
-initialize a new ledger with the seed I already have from 2017
-install electrum as recommended by bitmover in the first reply?

once I've checked that all this works I might upgrade the current ledger as well. am I being too cautious?

[Lucius]

~snip~
once I've checked that all this works I might upgrade the current ledger as well. am I being too cautious?

It would be good if you check which firmware version you have on the Nano S, because such an old device probably has a firmware version that cannot be upgraded. Practically, it is a device that may be completely unusable because it cannot work with Ledger Live, and most likely not even with Electrum, not to mention outdated coin apps that would represent a security risk even if you could connect the device with some software.

I am not sure if you need the newest Ledger Live versions before being offered a firmware upgrade. I never tested it.

It is always recommended to have the latest Ledger Live before a firmware upgrade, and even if the OP tries with some older versions, he probably won't be able to upgrade a device with such old firmware. There is only one way to find out the answer to that question.

Firmware versions 1.1 and 1.2 cannot be updated with Ledger Live Desktop. Please check the firmware version.

https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002731113-Update-Ledger-Nano-S-firmware?

[bitmover]

~snip~
once I've checked that all this works I might upgrade the current ledger as well. am I being too cautious?

It would be good if you check which firmware version you have on the Nano S, because such an old device probably has a firmware version that cannot be upgraded. Practically, it is a device that may be completely unusable because it cannot work with Ledger Live, and most likely not even with Electrum, not to mention outdated coin apps that would represent a security risk even if you could connect the device with some software.

I am not sure if you need the newest Ledger Live versions before being offered a firmware upgrade. I never tested it.

It is always recommended to have the latest Ledger Live before a firmware upgrade, and even if the OP tries with some older versions, he probably won't be able to upgrade a device with such old firmware. There is only one way to find out the answer to that question.

Firmware versions 1.1 and 1.2 cannot be updated with Ledger Live Desktop. Please check the firmware version.

https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002731113-Update-Ledger-Nano-S-firmware?

Electrum will probably work with those lower firmware versions.

One more good reason to keep the firmware updated.

the old chrome app was deactivated , which was responsible for those updates in old firmware
https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007534774--Ledger-Chrome-apps-deactivated?docs=true

[dkbit98]

once I've checked that all this works I might upgrade the current ledger as well. am I being too cautious?

I would not waste money on ledger closed source hardware wallets, especially not on ledge model nano X that is notorious for many problems with battery.
Ledger nano S is not manufactured anymore and it is probably going to be unusable soon, since ledger is slowly increasing size of their apps all the time.
There are several open source alternative hardware wallets that are in my opinion better, for example Passport, Keystone, Bitbox, Trezor, etc.

[Pmalek]

it might be an idea to try the procedure of doing it with a new ledger?
So as to have a kind of backup copy?

I see no point in that to be honest. Your backup is the paper where your seed is written down. You can have 10 different recovery phrases and only one device, and it would work. It would be a pain in the ass to keep resetting them to input a different backup, but it works. Replacing the Nano S would only be necessary if you have those old firmware versions that Lucius mentioned in his post.

Ledger nano S is not manufactured anymore and it is probably going to be unusable soon, since ledger is slowly increasing size of their apps all the time.

Actually, the newest Bitcoin app that they released a few weeks ago is smaller. The size shrank from 62kb to 56kb if I remembered the numbers correctly. I was surprised to see it.

[dkbit98]

Actually, the newest Bitcoin app that they released a few weeks ago is smaller. The size shrank from 62kb to 56kb if I remembered the numbers correctly. I was surprised to see it.

Maybe that is true for latest version, but I am hearing complains from other people that apps for other coins increased a lot in size, for example BCH shitcoin app increased around 15 to 20 times.
I don't if it is somehow possible to check size of all apps and change before update, without installing and testing them individually.
For people who use only Bitcoin this doesn't matter much (yet).

One good news for ledger users is that Fido 2 should be supported in ledger now, that can be useful for everyone:
https://blog.ledger.com/security-key/
https://github.com/LedgerHQ/app-security-key/

[Pmalek]

Maybe that is true for latest version, but I am hearing complains from other people that apps for other coins increased a lot in size, for example BCH shitcoin app increased around 15 to 20 times.

I have never used any of those Bitcoin-dependent apps on my Ledger, so I don't know what size they were in the past. I think they should be pretty small though, like a few kbs only because they take most of the code from the Bitcoin app. Looking at the app sizes for BCH or DOGE right now, I can see they are 36 kb. Seems pretty big. So I guess that information you got was correct.

Still, I have never seen any logic complaining about the size of an app or a wallet and the data that comes with it. Do these people expect new features and improvements and at the same time decreasing the app sizes? Doesn't really work. What would they say if they looked at the size of the bitcoin blockchain today compared to what it was 10 years ago?

I don't if it is somehow possible to check size of all apps and change before update, without installing and testing them individually.

Yeah, that's possible. You can do that by accessing the manager, called My Ledger in Ledger Live. It shows you the apps you have installed, the versions, and app sizes. If there is an update, you can see the new version number and new size after installation.

[dkbit98]

Still, I have never seen any logic complaining about the size of an app or a wallet and the data that comes with it. Do these people expect new features and improvements and at the same time decreasing the app sizes? Doesn't really work. What would they say if they looked at the size of the bitcoin blockchain today compared to what it was 10 years ago?

How come every single hardware wallet except ledger doesn't have any similar issues like this?
There is no improvements in shitcoin blockchains, I don't think Doge was ever seriously updated for years, and same thing for bch, so nothing changed.
There is literally zero new features with this bigger size apps, it's just one more way to force people to switch from model s to other newer models.

[Pmalek]

How come every single hardware wallet except ledger doesn't have any similar issues like this?

I can only speak about the devices I have or which I have used for a while, not about what I don't have or know. Trezors function in a different way. You don't install individual crypto apps on them like you do on a Ledger, so it isn't comparable. You enable and disable support for assets through the Trezor Suite.

There is no improvements in shitcoin blockchains, I don't think Doge was ever seriously updated for years, and same thing for bch, so nothing changed.
There is literally zero new features with this bigger size apps...

Again, I can't comment on things I don't know about. What changed with the apps is something you can check personally if you know how to. Ledger's crypto apps are open-source, and many of them are created by the devs of the various crypto projects, not Ledger and their team. I don't have the knowledge to read and understand code and I don't think you have either. Such assessment are better left to those who know. Best case scenario: get someone to do it for you, and prove that they are maliciously inflating the app sizes if you can. 

...it's just one more way to force people to switch from model s to other newer models.

As a Ledger Nano S user, it's not working on me. If someone is susceptible by outside factors, it's their problem.