The End of the Bitcoin Mixing Service, Should We Worry about Our Privacy?

[crwth]

That's the thing with the world; once it has taken notice or influenced how cryptocurrencies are being handled, it will be targeted if it can harm someone in any way. That will be hard to manage, but that's just the start. That is the cycle, for sure. One thing arises, and one thing is more effective than being taken down, and another option goes. There are a lot of companies trying to improve their privacy etc and it could be brought down again.

[Despairo]

This raises concerns about privacy. Bitcoin users who want to protect their identities and transactions will now have to find alternative ways to do it, but what? Even with coinjoin/privacy wallets, these things can also be taken down if they get bigger.

You're just overreacting about the privacy matter after Chipmixer got seized by SEC, do you think more than 50% of Bitcoin holders are really care and want to protect their privacy to achieve a complete anonymity? I bet only 1% or less people are care, the rest Bitcoin holders are trust with centralization because they verify their KYC on centralized exchanges.

I'm not saying they're don't care with privacy, but they're only protect their privacy from unknown people and they don't have any problem to reveal anything to the centralized entity.

[witcher_sense]

There is an important difference between Mixers and privacy wallets/coinjoin, in my opinion.

Mixers are a service, which need to be hosted and maintained by operators, which makes them vulnerable in a way or another. However, Privacy wallets and coinjoin are supposed to be open source and in the case of coinjoin, it can become a decentralized standard, in that case an government cannot realistically take down something which does not require a centralized host to work properly.

CoinJoin transactions require centralized coordination so that transacting parties can have access to liquidity, find each other at any time they want to coinjoin their coins, and also the very process of transaction creation consisting of preparing, input and output registration, and signing cannot occur (effectively) without the presence of a centralized entity who manages the process. It is also a service that a coordinator is taking money for, and it also needs to be hosted on some servers located in some jurisdictions. These servers may also be seized and shut down, and their owners may find themselves in jail for direct facilitating, albeit slightly more decentralized, illegal transactions. That is the main drawback of CoinJoin: it doesn't work without centralized companies like ZkSNACKs or Samourai Wallet, which provide liquidity for private transactions and sometimes infringe on customers' privacy through different means, including collaboration with blockchain surveillance parasite companies.

[davis196]

The people, who are using BTC mixers have something to hide, which means that they are doing something shady/illegal.
If you are not involved in any crimes whatsoever, then what's the point of mixing your Bitcoins?
Like many forum members have stated, this is not the end of BTC mixers. It's a never ending battle between such services and the authorities. BTC mixers are like the darkweb marketplaces. Big darkweb markets were shut down, but new markets are appearing out of nowhere.
If you aren't doing anything illegal, why you are so concerned about BTC mixers. The people, who are obsessed with online privacy seem more or less paranoid to me. Of course everyone has to protect his/her sensitive info online, but we don't need BTC mixers for that purpose.

[Farma]

when bitcoins get too big, and mixers are always associated with negative things like money laundering, or to erase transaction traces, it might be natural for the government to shut down such services. However, the fall of the chipmixer did not mean the end of mixers. I think there are still quite a lot of mixers out there. Other than that, I don't think we need to worry about privacy issues. making transactions with bitcoin does not require an identity if you use certain wallets. besides, if the transaction we are doing is legal, we don't have to worry about it at all.

[Supreemo]

the main thing why users like to use mixers is they don't want to leak information other than the 3rd party which is the mixer itself, while the concern of the government/law/FBI is because it is considered illegal and have to take action since laundering is always present whenever mixer is involve. two opposing factions fighting for what they believe is right will paved another way for other mixers to thrive.

the users always wanted to protect their security while government just wanted to abide the law in which we could say that they'd only speak about the so called "law" when it's convenient for them.

[Outhue]

As far as bitcoin mixers are concerned, they have both advantages and disadvantages. I have never used one because I don't have any need to, but I'm sure not all mixer users are into something illegal. Those who use mixers to hide stolen funds and embezzled money are the biggest problem, and that's why law enforcement will have to shut them down.

I am surprised that privacy projects like Zcash and Monero live this long because this is the only reason why I don't have any XMR or Zcash coins in my crypto portfolio right now, it's why I don't invest in MASQ even though I like how useful this project is in terms of privacy and security.

While many mixers remain operational to this day, I doubt the federal government will shut all of them down unless there is evidence that funds were moved illegally through the mixers.

[Plaguedeath]

The people, who are using BTC mixers have something to hide, which means that they are doing something shady/illegal.
If you are not involved in any crimes whatsoever, then what's the point of mixing your Bitcoins?
If you aren't doing anything illegal, why you are so concerned about BTC mixers. The people, who are obsessed with online privacy seem more or less paranoid to me. Of course everyone has to protect his/her sensitive info online, but we don't need BTC mixers for that purpose.

Not all people who use mixer have done something shady/illegal, they just want to protect their privacy from getting tracked by government or banks. It can be used to avoid paying tax, but after all it depends on every person motive to use mixer. If you not using mixer, the centralized exchange can easily track all of your coins you have on your wallet. It's mean they already recognize how much your wealth and some people are scared if the employee use it for bad thing or it's get hacked and his information get leaked.

[Ucy]

Recently, the largest Bitcoin mixing service, Chipmixer, was shut down as a result of an investigation by the U.S.  
Department of Justice.
This is not the first time that a Bitcoin mixing service has been targeted by law enforcement agencies. In the past, both BestMixer and Tornado Cash were also shut down.

The closure of these services suggests that the authorities are cracking down on these anonymizing services. It is possible that smaller services may also be targeted in the future if they become more significant. This raises concerns about privacy. Bitcoin users who want to protect their identities and transactions will now have to find alternative ways to do it, but what? Even with coinjoin/privacy wallets, these things can also be taken down if they get bigger.

The model used by most of the mixers is flawed and actually violated Bitcoin's important ideal of transparency... The records of the mixed coins should be hashed & stored somewhere until they are needed... And when they are needed it should only be possible to expose those who don't deserve to be hidden. Evil thrives in darkness and it's important to make sure evil is exposed without preventing the innocent from using such services to hide from the evil that want to harm them. Only evil needs to prevented from using the services not other way around.
The good/Innocent rather than the evil has the right to hide

[PrivacyG]

The model used by most of the mixers is flawed and actually violated Bitcoin's important ideal of transparency... The records of the mixed coins should be hashed & stored somewhere until they are needed... And when they are needed it should only be possible to expose those who don't deserve to be hidden. Evil thrives in darkness and it's important to make sure evil is exposed without preventing the innocent from using such services to hide from the evil that want to harm them. Only evil needs to prevented from using the services not other way around.
The good/Innocent rather than the evil has the right to hide

It is a slippery slope.  You either go full transparent or you go full blackout.  If you pave a path right in the middle, they will want every body to take that route.  And not only this.  If some body can be uncovered.  Then the entire idea of earning Privacy with Bitcoin is useless.  What if I am subjected to an attack from the Federal Government and they are displaying it publicly as an attack against a terrorist.  I am protecting myself.  But if I can be revealed.  It is useless!

Bitcoin is only still allowed to exist because they can decypher most of the information they need.  They are still mad and frustrated about the information they can not untangle.  Like Lightning Network or Monero.  But here they are.  They are clearly launching strong attacks against the fundamental pillars of Privacy on top of Cryptocurrencies.

Evil thrives in darkness.  I agree.  But.  If Bitcoin transactions were only preserving Privacy until you become a suspect, then Evil will not stay around Bitcoin.  It will find a better spot, a darker spot.  If Monero is outlawed, they will either continue using it privately or they will find an alternative.  Me, you, who are looking for actual legitimate Privacy, will suffer the most.  They will suffer the least, because they are not looking to stay under the laws.  They are looking to stay outside of them.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

[Bitcoin_Arena]

How many mixers were seized in history? Only two (BestMixer and ChipMixer) or more than two in history?

I didn't say Bitblender was seized. They voluntarily stop business. Bestmixer getting Seized and the Bitblender also stopping business around the same time meant that there was a very huge gap left in the mixing business, but Chipmixer and a few other mixers like Blender.io kept running and absorbed the gap.

What I mean is currently, with the closure of chipmixer, a number of mixers will take up the gap left by chipmixer and continue operating as usual.

[franky1]

if the fiat banking system offered a service to just swap $1k:$1k and called it 'a mixing service to hide your money transaction movements'.. guess what.. regulators would be watching it like a hungry hawk watches a mouse

just because something is "bitcoin" does not make mixing escape anti-laundering legislation/regulators.

too many people think 'if i just use a different currency, real world laws no longer apply' those people are called idiots

laws still apply, you are just trying to find new ways to evade being found sooner.. by thinking you are escaping laws. but all it is is delaying the inevitable

for centuries. fiat services that swap $1k:$1k are done but they do not advertise themselves as mixing services.. as that is stupid. they do things more subtly to have a legit explanation for why they used a service

EG people go to casinos and deposit dirty cash into poker chips and then withdraw clean fiat after (emphasis) presumably playing poker...
some buy art for cash and then sell it for cash.
some buy businesses for cash and then sell shares for cash

its not called a mixing service nor advertises itself as such. it advertises itself as a different function/service. but has a obvious side effect.

if idiots are too dumb to not know other methods to swap value without advertising their intent to swap value. then they deserve to be watched

if you lot cant get any hints for methods to truly hide your desires to launder money. then you really do deserve to be watched

if you cant get the hint. ill try to be clearer
make a service thats not advertising that its a laundering service but has the side effect of taking in value on one side and giving out other value on the other side. where by if your smart enough those that realise the benefits of such can use it . while having a legit excuse for why they used such a service

but for those who want to continue advertising mixing services and cry about not understanding why mixing services are watched more then regular services.. you will never find peace nor the escape of watchers you seek

[DooMAD]

if you cant get the hint. ill try to be clearer
make a service thats not advertising that its a laundering service but has the side effect of taking in value on one side and giving out other value on the other side. where by if your smart enough those that realise the benefits of such can use it . while having a legit excuse for why they used such a service

I'm sure you would immediately resort to deception, but most people aren't as unashamedly dishonest as you are.  Maybe you need to understand that not everyone is a compulsive liar like you.  

How are customers meant to find this hidden mixer if you can't advertise it as the thing it's meant to be?  And as soon as word gets out that it functions the same as a mixer, your target audience might find it, but then so might the same authorities who want to watch anything that functions as a mixer.  Only in your delusional mind would authorities be duped by that for too long.

[franky1]

@doomad

you are the one advertising services/functions that put peoples funds and freedom at risk
so you are the deceiving liar and shameless snake oil salesman

but hey atleast i can quote the laws that people are at risk of hitting by your preferred services. you however want to tell people to ignore laws and just grab your dirty money while you take their clean money.. putting their freedom at risk, just so you can have yours

you are very shameless, and not so mart about the method you do such

dont you even realise you have promoted mixers and those you duped into using mixers now have their funds seized .. thanks to YOU

and as proven .. you also are stupid enough to think that a service you make that you now describe as a "hidden mixer" is you stupidly still describing it by the term mixer..
thus undoing the hidden part..

if you dont want to get funds watched by using mixers.. stop saying the word mixer when you describe a service you want to offer which should be advertised/described as something else. to not fit into the category of something that should be watched

for once use some common sense

i know thats a tough request for you to be asked to figure something out for yourself. but atleast spend a few years trying.. maybe one day you will get it.... maybe

one more time, just for the idiot above

creating a service that only has one function which is laundering and then advertising it as a laundering service(mixer) IS DUMB

create a service that offers other functions. where it has (subtly/unsaid) a side effect feature of allowing fund A entry. fund B exit. which goes unsaid/undiscussed as the main purpose.. where smart people can work out the benefit of the side effect function.. is smart
a service where laundering/mixing is not advertised but those with brains can use it and have a legitimate excuse for why they used it due to the other advertised functions of said service.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

if the fiat banking system offered a service to just swap $1k:$1k and called it 'a mixing service to hide your money transaction movements'.. guess what.. regulators would be watching it like a hungry hawk watches a mouse

just because something is "bitcoin" does not make mixing escape anti-laundering legislation/regulators.

I think you have got a point here. I imagine that as bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are a new space, they have not been clearly legislated for. Just to think that it was only recently, 14 years after the launch of bitcoin and 12 years after the first altcoin, that the SEC considered bitcoin a commodity and the rest of securities, we can see how poorly regulated the space is.

EG people go to casinos and deposit dirty cash into poker chips and then withdraw clean fiat after (emphasis) presumably playing poker...

That was easy to do years ago, but not today. Almost all cryptocurrency casinos have introduced wagering requirements and KYC, so laundering money using casinos has become more and more difficult. I guess they have anticipated what was to come.

[famososMuertos]

It is a "mixture" of interests, the government needs these services to exist to catch those who misuse the right to anonymity and not those who make benign use.

Privacy and anonymity do not always go together in happiness no matter what services you use, the important thing is that the management of that happiness is always your decision.