You should write two copies of your seed phrase.

[NotATether]

Hear me out guys.

Paper can be really fragile, and all it takes is a tear or water spill or defacing to deny you access to your BTC forever.

So, you should make a second copy of your seed phrase that is identical to the first, and store it on a different place from the first seed so that they both cannot go down together except in extreme circumstances like a natural disaster.

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[CryptoHFs]

is remembering 12 words that hard?

[NeuroticFish]

Paper can be really fragile, and all it takes is a tear or water spill or defacing to deny you access to your BTC forever.

So, you should make a second copy of your seed phrase that is identical to the first, and store it on a different place from the first seed so that they both cannot go down together except in extreme circumstances like a natural disaster.

Well, this advice is far from new. But indeed, it's good to remind people now and then about it (I would have been expecting this in B&H though).

is remembering 12 words that hard?

It's not.. until it is. Just imagine a stroke, or a (motor)bike crash, or many other things the can happen to you.
Plus, mind is a very strange thing. In a year or two you will be certain the 5th word in your seed is "about" and in reality it was always "above".
So no. It's not difficult to keep in mind 12 words for a while. But the longer that while is, the more chances for something to go wrong.

[_act_]

is remembering 12 words that hard?

Do not depend on your memory because memory can fail anyone at anytime. The best is to backup your seed phrase in two places. If you keep it in three different places, it makes it better.

Most people can have more than one wallet. Some people can have 2, 3 or more wallets, keeping their seed phrases offhand wouldn't be ideal.

[CryptoHFs]

is remembering 12 words that hard?

Do not depend on your memory because memory can fail anyone at anytime. The best is to backup your seed phrase in two places. If you keep it in three different places, it makes it better.

Most people can have more than one wallet. Some people can have 2, 3 or more wallets, keeping their seed phrases offhand wouldn't be ideal.

it is kinda worrying leaving your seeds somewhere someone can find but for sure there are solutions. This is the real risk of crypto currencies.

[_act_]

it is kinda worrying leaving your seeds somewhere someone can find but for sure there are solutions. This is the real risk of crypto currencies.

If you are worrying about your seed phrase and you do not want anyone to steal your coins, you can add passphrase to it. If you add passphrase, you are safe but you have to let the passphrase to be strong. Eight to ten or more characters that consists of alphabets, numbers and characters like .,@ should be enough.

[dkbit98]

Paper can be really fragile, and all it takes is a tear or water spill or defacing to deny you access to your BTC forever.

You are inventing the wheel all over again 
We all know that paper is easy to get damaged, burned or destroyed by water, but that can happen to all your paper copies.
It's much better to use secondary backup option something more substantial, made from stainless steel, it can be washers or metal plates, whatever you prefer.

So, you should make a second copy of your seed phrase that is identical to the first, and store it on a different place from the first seed so that they both cannot go down together except in extreme circumstances like a natural disaster.

I wouldn't stop at only two copies, because three is better than two.
Adding one or more passphrase is also a good suggestions, and multisig setup is even better.

it is kinda worrying leaving your seeds somewhere someone can find but for sure there are solutions. This is the real risk of crypto currencies.

Your brain is much worse place to keep anything important, especially something like seed words.
This is the real risk of human body experience, and you wouldn't be the first to lose coins for trusting your brain so much.

[bpkdasbaum]

Paper?

Let me introduce you to our lord and savior: Crypto Seed backup in steel washers.

Low cost, affordable, easily scalable, indestructible, fireproof 1400°C (a house fire is around 1100°C), waterproof, corrosion proof, shock proof, earthquake proof, offline cold wallet, seed or passphrase backup.

https://i.etsystatic.com/41503409/r/il/689efd/4813988559/il_1588xN.4813988559_fcds.jpg
Picture taken from here: https://www.etsy.com/listing/1434977816


More information on that topic here:

https://jlopp.github.io/metal-bitcoin-storage-reviews/
https://incoherency.co.uk/blog/stories/diy-cryptosteel-capsule.html
http://bulletproofbitcoin.com/
https://blog.lopp.net/a-treatise-on-bitcoin-seed-backup-device-design/
https://www.econoalchemist.com/post/backup
https://blockmit.com/english/guides/diy/make-cold-wallet-washers/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5389446.0

[NotATether]

is remembering 12 words that hard?

It takes time to memorize it and that only happens after entering it often.

it is kinda worrying leaving your seeds somewhere someone can find but for sure there are solutions. This is the real risk of crypto currencies.

What? The implication was that you put both of your papers in areas of your room or house only you can find.

Let me introduce you to our lord and savior: Crypto Seed backup in steel washers.

Washers are nice but a lot of people are still going to use paper anyway, hence this message.

[Yamane_Keto]

like a natural disaster.

I created this thread a while ago, it will be useful in case of earthquakes  Is Metal Seed Storage Safe in an Earthquake? .

The problem of creating more than one wallet seed with earthquakes is in distributing them, you will be forced to keep one of them away from you or your home and perhaps your geographical area, which increases the risk that someone else will be able to know it.

is remembering 12 words that hard?

It is especially difficult, and with the ease of using technology in everything, our dependence on our brains has become less. I do not remember my keys easily, but supposing it is easy, there are problems beyond your control. I will quote some of them from o_e_l_e_o:

Each year:

69 million traumatic brain injuries: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29701556/
12 million strokes: https://www.world-stroke.org/assets/downloads/WSO_Global_Stroke_Fact_Sheet.pdf
10 million new diagnoses of dementia: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/dementia
5 million new diagnoses of epilepsy: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/epilepsy
2.5 million cases of meningitis: https://www.path.org/articles/toward-world-without-meningitis/
2 million new brain tumors: https://academic.oup.com/noa/article/3/1/vdaa178/6043315
1.5 million cases of encephalitis: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0163445322002110

That's each year, and that's only major conditions which directly affect the brain.

- Yamane

[NotATether]

is remembering 12 words that hard?

It is especially difficult, and with the ease of using technology in everything, our dependence on our brains has become less. I do not remember my keys easily, but supposing it is easy, there are problems beyond your control. I will quote some of them from o_e_l_e_o:

Each year:

69 million traumatic brain injuries: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29701556/
12 million strokes: https://www.world-stroke.org/assets/downloads/WSO_Global_Stroke_Fact_Sheet.pdf
10 million new diagnoses of dementia: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/dementia
5 million new diagnoses of epilepsy: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/epilepsy
2.5 million cases of meningitis: https://www.path.org/articles/toward-world-without-meningitis/
2 million new brain tumors: https://academic.oup.com/noa/article/3/1/vdaa178/6043315
1.5 million cases of encephalitis: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0163445322002110

That's each year, and that's only major conditions which directly affect the brain.

- Yamane

Also if you watch tiktok, the chances of you remembering 12 words drops significantly (no joke).

You'd need to read it at least 20+ times before it starts to stick in your head.

[m2017]

Hear me out guys.

Paper can be really fragile, and all it takes is a tear or water spill or defacing to deny you access to your BTC forever.

So, you should make a second copy of your seed phrase that is identical to the first, and store it on a different place from the first seed so that they both cannot go down together except in extreme circumstances like a natural disaster.

Your proposal is not new and this issue has been discussed many times, but it is better to repeat this several times in order to avoid unexpected losses in the future.

Paper is a fragile carrier of information and you can't argue here. Then maybe use other, more reliable ones? Metal, plastic. Plastic? I don't remember anyone suggesting this option. Sure, it's not the best way, but it might be better than paper. Although it can't withstand fire in the same way, neither the tears of bitcoiners nor water can spoil the text. Easy to apply: heat iron dies and press against a piece of plastic.

Two copies may not be enough. At a minimum, you should start with 3 pieces.
I see it like this: 1 carrier of seed phrases on paper in easy accessibility, which is not a pity to lose. 2 media on plastic, for example, stored more securely. 3 carrier - on metal and hidden in the most reliable way in the most inaccessible place and being the very last reserve.

[bpkdasbaum]

like a natural disaster.

The problem of creating more than one wallet seed with earthquakes is in distributing them, you will be forced to keep one of them away from you or your home and perhaps your geographical area, which increases the risk that someone else will be able to know it.

There are multiple ways to encrypt/secure your seed backups so they are not readable even if someone finds them in the open at a different location from yours.
There are ways to encrypt a seed in a way that you could show it to people, they would think it's a real seed, but they wouldn't be able to get to your coins.
There are also ways to encrypt a seed in a way that you could show it to people and they wouldn't even recognise it as a seed, so they wouldn't be able to get to your coins.

For example: Simple cipher (Youtube link with timestamp), Passphrase, XOR, Shamir secret sharing, Multisig, and more.

Make 3 seed backups in steel washers (or titanium). And ideally encrypt them with a simple cipher (easiest and fastest) or use a passphrase and store that separately.

Earthquake proof, Low cost, affordable, easily scalable, indestructible, fireproof 1400°C (a house fire is around 1100°C), waterproof, corrosion proof, shock proof, offline cold wallet, seed or passphrase backup.

https://i.etsystatic.com/41503409/r/il/689efd/4813988559/il_1588xN.4813988559_fcds.jpg
Picture taken from here: https://www.etsy.com/listing/1434977816


More information on that topic here:

https://jlopp.github.io/metal-bitcoin-storage-reviews/
https://incoherency.co.uk/blog/stories/diy-cryptosteel-capsule.html
https://blog.lopp.net/a-treatise-on-bitcoin-seed-backup-device-design/
https://www.econoalchemist.com/post/backup
https://blockmit.com/english/guides/diy/make-cold-wallet-washers/
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5389446.0

[knowngunman]

is remembering 12 words that hard?

Very hard than you can imagine. Haven't you heard of memory lose before? Brain dimentia and so on? Yes, we all know the danger of writing seed phrases on a tangible materials but cramming it is not the best way neither. Writing on a paper should be out of options completely as it is not secure at all. In my opinion, metal plate has covered me and my seed phrase already.

Look for a sizeable flat metal plate, a nail or needle and hammer to print your seed phrases on the metal by making it in form of hole. It actually takes a little bit time but it is more safer and resistant to both fire and water. Ensure to save it in a dry, clean and private place to avoid hole blockage.

[hugeblack]

You'd need to read it at least 20+ times before it starts to stick in your head.

Psychological pressure is enough for that, I remember that when there are remain five minutes to finish the exam, I forget all information.
So what about remembering the private key for your money, especially if write one of the letters wrongly.
So even if your memory is good, it is the worst choice.

Also if you watch tiktok, the chances of you remembering 12 words drops significantly (no joke).

Thank God, I have not download TikTok since it was Musical.ly.

[yudi09]

Hear me out guys.

Paper can be really fragile, and all it takes is a tear or water spill or defacing to deny you access to your BTC forever.

So, you should make a second copy of your seed phrase that is identical to the first, and store it on a different place from the first seed so that they both cannot go down together except in extreme circumstances like a natural disaster.

Although it doesn't sound like much of a novelty, it is quite an important suggestion to make in terms of greater security.
The second seed pharse backup besides being stored on paper, it is a good idea to prepare another place to store such as in a metal mold that can withstand a fire.
As for other natural disasters, they are of course beyond our reach as humans.

[Zaguru12]

Very hard than you can imagine. Haven't you heard of memory lose before? Brain dimentia and so on? Yes, we all know the danger of writing seed phrases on a tangible materials but cramming it is not the best way neither. Writing on a paper should be out of options completely as it is not secure at all. In my opinion, metal plate has covered me and my seed phrase already.

Look for a sizeable flat metal plate, a nail or needle and hammer to print your seed phrases on the metal by making it in form of hole. It actually takes a little bit time but it is more safer and resistant to both fire and water. Ensure to save it in a dry, clean and private place to avoid hole blockage.

This doesn’t still eliminate the risk entirely because if it is save in a place where no one could actually get to then if there’s is a case of serious brain trauma like amnesia where it is hard to remember past events then it will also make it hard to find where it is stored. So no matter how hard it is to trust people there should be a family member that one needs to share one of the storage places with. As this could also be vital in recovering this funds should the owner dies

[Chikito]

Make 3 seed backups in steel washers (or titanium).

titanium is most expensive, you can try to buy cheaper steel SS304, it's enough save with house fire temperature, and I tested in my journal research.

Beberapa bulan lalu saya membeli lembaran plat metal berjenis SS304 yang banyak dipakai untuk menyimpan 12/24 word mnemonic seed oleh beberapa perusahaan terkenal crypto.

Karena kalau beli langsung jadi itu mahal, maka juga berinisiatif membuat sendiri dengan membeli lembaran plat SS304 secara online. Murah, tidak sampai 100 ribu, dan masih bisa di potong beberapa bagian sehingga masih sisa banyak untuk nyimpan yang lain.

Dan kebetulan juga sekarang ini lagi ada kerjaan workshop dan ada alat untuk melakukan tempering logam, maka saya berinisiatif untuk melakukan pengujian sendiri terhadap ketahanan panas plat SS304 yang saya beli tempo hari. Biar nanti tidak ragu, karena plat SS304 yang saya beli tersebut bisa jadi bukan yang sebenarnya, sehingga kalau terjadi sesuatu misalnya kebakaran, meleleh atau tidak kuat menahan panas.

1. Plat saya potong sedikit (hanya sebagai spesimen), berukuran Panjang 65mm, lebar 33mm dan tebal 3mm. lalu saya stamping.



2. bersiap melakukan pemanasan atau furnace dengan menggunakan alat ber-merk Nabertherm asal jerman.
ketika sudah mencapai suhu 900° C, plat saya masukan dan menunggu 10 menit



3. Setelah itu saya keluarkan dan dengan bantuan teman untuk menyiramnya dengan air (mungkin lebih baik dibiarkan begitu saja tanpa menyiram dengan air)



4. Dan, gambar di bawah adalah penampakan setelah dipanaskan dan tempering, tampak tidak ada perubahan, tulisan masih dapat terbaca walau sedikit menghitam



5. Untuk menghilangkan kehitaman, saya berinisiatif mengamplasnya, dan tulisan sudah nampak terang terbaca



Jadi kesimpulannya, Plat SS304 (memang betul-betul SS304 asli) yang saya beli di toko online tersebut cukup kuat menahan panas di suhu 900° C selama 10 menit. Karena pada beberapa kejadian, suhu 900 tersebut adalah suhu kebakaran rumah tertinggi, dan 10 menit itu adalah waktu tercepat jika ada mobil pemadam yang menyiramnya dengan air.

Mungkin ini bisa dijadikan patokan dan dasar buat kalian untuk mulai menyimpan word mnemonic seed di logam berjenis SS304 tersebut.


a. Dasar saya ambil suhu 900 [1].

[1]. https://www.cnnindonesia.com/nasional/20201023194626-12-562173/suhu-api-kebakaran-kejagung-capai-900-derajat-celsius

b. sebenarnya respon time pemadam kebakaran datang itu 15 menit [2]. namun karena itu terpenitng dalam hidup saya, dapat dipastikan jika memang terjadi, plat SS304 tersebut akan saya sangat perhatikan, mungkin jika (amit-amit) terjadi, itu dulu yang diselamatkan dari dalam brangkas. Jadi 10 menit itu maksimal, bisa jadi kurang karena yakin sih safenya berlapis.

[2]. https://sippn.menpan.go.id/pelayanan-publik/sulawesi-selatan/kabupaten-soppeng/layanan-response-time-penanggulangan-kejadian-kebakaran-

c. kalau ragu (misal beli online) plat misal ss304, titanium, dsb Asli,  baiknya di uji komposisi di lab, namun ya itu mahal, tidak sebanding dengan beli asli yang bersertifikat. Saya melakukan manual pengujian di atas karena memang ada kesempatan aja, kalau pun memang kepepet dan ragu, bisa diuji coba di atas kompor gas, tapi musti izin dulu sama emak.

[Z-tight]

especially if write one of the letters wrongly.

I can relate to this experience, i have a friend who thought writing one word out of his seed phrase was a good way to protect it if someone found the seed phrase, but it is only good until you yourself forget correctly what the last word is, and lock yourself out of your funds. What my friend did was that he would write 12 words down, but one is incorrect, then he would try to memorize the correct word that was omitted, and that which is incorrectly included, so whenever he wants to import his wallet, he would eliminate the incorrect word and replcace it with the correct word he had in his memory, at the time i thought this was a good thing to do.

After close to a year, my friend couldn't remember the correct word he committed to his memory, it was surprising and i can even call it a traumatic experience for him because he kept trying and thinking, he was successful in less that 24 hours though, but it was a risky event, imagine if one can forget just one word, what about 12 words. Memorising seed phrases or trying to be too clever while backing it up is so risky, just do the simple things and have more than one backup.

[Wind_FURY]

is remembering 12 words that hard?

But what if, you have 1,000 Bitcoins in your wallet, and you forget one word, JUST ONE WORD, and you have no copies of your seed phrase anywhere because "remembering 12 word is not that hard". You'll definitely know the true meaning of manual brute-forcing. Hahaha.

 

OP, have both physical copies, and digital copies. Put the physical copy in a tightly sealed pack, and store it under lock+key in a safe. Encrypt the digital copy in a USB Drive and place it in nested directories, with each layer encrypted, and with different passwords.