I think it's time to leave Binance, any alternatives?

[YOSHIE]

So, my question is, if Binance goes down, which centralized bitcoin exchange are you going to use?

Fortunately we still have a local exchange that can still be used, if Binance goes down, but right now I'm still using Binance, Coinbase exchange is not good for me, but Coinbase is better for other people.

However, I have used several exchanges, Binance I stayed with, others I abandoned, of course I did that for my personal reasons, despite some negative news and responses to Binance, I hope it has no effect in the future, hoping Binance exchange stays safe and survives.

[BenCodie]

So, my question is, if Binance goes down, which centralized bitcoin exchange are you going to use?

Fortunately we still have a local exchange that can still be used, if Binance goes down, but right now I'm still using Binance, Coinbase exchange is not good for me, but Coinbase is better for other people.

However, I have used several exchanges, Binance I stayed with, others I abandoned, of course I did that for my personal reasons, despite some negative news and responses to Binance, I hope it has no effect in the future, hoping Binance exchange stays safe and survives.

Why still use Binance or Coinbase during this uncertainty...why use them at all when centralized exchanges have proven to be dangerous time and time again? Why continue to run the several risks (theft, manipulation, sacrifice of privacy) by continuing to use centralized exchanges after moving away from Binance when the time comes that you have to?

Why not use Peer to Peer marketplaces like HodlHodl and AgoraDesk for your fiat <> crypto needs, and decentralized exchanges/bridges for on-chain movements? You retain privacy, custody and gain exposure to data oracles instead of centralized price data. Risk and security is much more in your control.

[Rikafip]

Why still use Binance or Coinbase during this uncertainty...why use them at all when centralized exchanges have proven to be dangerous time and time again?

Because active traders don't really have other options. Then again, traders don't use centralized exchange as their cold storage and instead they have only a smaller part of their portfolio there and they usually understand the risks involved while that's not the case with an average crypto enthusiast and that's where problems start.

Why not use Peer to Peer marketplaces like HodlHodl and AgoraDesk for your fiat <> crypto needs, and decentralized exchanges/bridges for on-chain movements? You retain privacy, custody and gain exposure to data oracles instead of centralized price data. Risk and security is much more in your control.

Decentralized exchanges simply don't have enough liquidity and certain tools (like cross leverage) needed for speculators so they are not suitable for all users.

[rat03gopoh]

Why not use Peer to Peer marketplaces like HodlHodl and AgoraDesk for your fiat <> crypto needs, and decentralized exchanges/bridges for on-chain movements? You retain privacy, custody and gain exposure to data oracles instead of centralized price data. Risk and security is much more in your control.

P2p markets don't always offer competitive pricing options as there are only a few traders available on a single platform (sometimes too expensive compared to spot rates). And also the limited choices of currency lists, local banks offered by existing traders.

[RickDeckard]

P2p markets don't always offer competitive pricing options as there are only a few traders available on a single platform (sometimes too expensive compared to spot rates). ~

I prefer to see the other side of the mirror - I refuse to accept to pay the price that bitcoin has on CEX's (such as Binance or Coinbase). The price that you're paying is almost the same as spot rates because you're giving away something that is priceless - your privacy. When put into perspective, I would much rather pay a premium regarding the current price of bitcoin just for the sake of preserving my privacy (while, at the same time, supporting P2P market). Do remember the title of Bitcoin Whitepaper[1] and you'll see what I'm referring to.
[1]https://bitcoinwhitepaper.co/

[dimonstration]

Why not use Peer to Peer marketplaces like HodlHodl and AgoraDesk for your fiat <> crypto needs, and decentralized exchanges/bridges for on-chain movements? You retain privacy, custody and gain exposure to data oracles instead of centralized price data. Risk and security is much more in your control.

P2p markets don't always offer competitive pricing options as there are only a few traders available on a single platform (sometimes too expensive compared to spot rates). And also the limited choices of currency lists, local banks offered by existing traders.

In addition to this, P2P is not instant since there's a waiting for the other party to process the transaction before you received your exchange currency unlike CEX and DEX that offers on the spo trading that user can benefit during a price fluctuation to have a better price entry. I'm a P2P user and the only time I'm using P2P is when I need to convert fiat since that's the only way. There's a lot of danger on P2P since you need to be vigilant on who is you are dealing because they can send fake screenshot for receipt to mislead user that doesn't check actual accoutn balance.

[BenCodie]

Why not use Peer to Peer marketplaces like HodlHodl and AgoraDesk for your fiat <> crypto needs, and decentralized exchanges/bridges for on-chain movements? You retain privacy, custody and gain exposure to data oracles instead of centralized price data. Risk and security is much more in your control.

P2p markets don't always offer competitive pricing options as there are only a few traders available on a single platform (sometimes too expensive compared to spot rates). And also the limited choices of currency lists, local banks offered by existing traders.

In addition to this, P2P is not instant since there's a waiting for the other party to process the transaction before you received your exchange currency unlike CEX and DEX that offers on the spo trading that user can benefit during a price fluctuation to have a better price entry. I'm a P2P user and the only time I'm using P2P is when I need to convert fiat since that's the only way. There's a lot of danger on P2P since you need to be vigilant on who is you are dealing because they can send fake screenshot for receipt to mislead user that doesn't check actual accoutn balance.

Ohhh how inconvenient, you have to wait (usually less than 15 minutes, up to an hour) for a trader to accept the trade! This makes centralized exchanges so much more superior!
/sarcasm
If you are selecting traders who have a more than established reputation, it's extremely unlikely you'll be subject to the kinds of fraud that you've mentioned. Reputable traders make a lot more from trading legitimately via their fees in comparison to a quick score. If you're choosing new users with low reputation, then of course you'll be subject to issues.

Sure, be vigilant...though it's not as bad as you make it out to be. Once you do a few P2P trades, I've found that you usually find a few traders which you know are reliable from experience, then having to be vigilant is less of a concern.

Why not use Peer to Peer marketplaces like HodlHodl and AgoraDesk for your fiat <> crypto needs, and decentralized exchanges/bridges for on-chain movements? You retain privacy, custody and gain exposure to data oracles instead of centralized price data. Risk and security is much more in your control.

Decentralized exchanges simply don't have enough liquidity and certain tools (like cross leverage) needed for speculators so they are not suitable for all users.

Unless you are trading more than $1-$10m, liquidity on dexes and bridges isn not an issue for the average user.

Why not use Peer to Peer marketplaces like HodlHodl and AgoraDesk for your fiat <> crypto needs, and decentralized exchanges/bridges for on-chain movements? You retain privacy, custody and gain exposure to data oracles instead of centralized price data. Risk and security is much more in your control.

P2p markets don't always offer competitive pricing options as there are only a few traders available on a single platform (sometimes too expensive compared to spot rates). And also the limited choices of currency lists, local banks offered by existing traders.

Once you establish relationships with traders, you can generally get better rates if the trade is still profitable for them. You can also go offsite if you trust them. Before that, the rates aren't that bad if you do reasonable amounts. Limitations of payment options, personally never experienced that issue though maybe it's different globally. I'm sure cash is available everywhere though.

[Rikafip]

Unless you are trading more than $1-$10m, liquidity on dexes and bridges isn not an issue for the average user.

Well, you are the one who asked why use centralized exchanges and I told you that there is a certain group of people (mainly pro traders) who simply have no options if they want to do their job as efficiently as possible.

Hopefully that changes in the future and DEX will be able to offer to those type of users everything CEX can, but until then I don't see them losing popularity.

[BenCodie]

Unless you are trading more than $1-$10m, liquidity on dexes and bridges isn not an issue for the average user.

Well, you are the one who asked why use centralized exchanges and I told you that there is a certain group of people (mainly pro traders) who simply have no options if they want to do their job as efficiently as possible.

Hopefully that changes in the future and DEX will be able to offer to those type of users everything CEX can, but until then I don't see them losing popularity.

Actually there are some decentralized solutions that do provide the tools that pro traders can use, without the need to use centralized exchanges. One of these tools are GMX.io. There are also similar layer 2 solutions which offer a suite of trading tools that are just as good, if not better than CEXs. I'll build a list in Altcoin discussion and bring it here when it's done.

I agree, CEXs retain popularity for now. Though I am sure there will be a polar shift quite soon. The functionality isn't as limited as 1 year ago when it comes to high frequency DEX trading vs. High frequency CEX trading.

Why still use Binance or Coinbase during this uncertainty...why use them at all when centralized exchanges have proven to be dangerous time and time again?

Because active traders don't really have other options. Then again, traders don't use centralized exchange as their cold storage and instead they have only a smaller part of their portfolio there and they usually understand the risks involved while that's not the case with an average crypto enthusiast and that's where problems start.

There are other options, trust me. They just need to be looked for.

I'll post the layer2 dex thread this week and come back when it's done

[Slow death]

So, my question is, if Binance goes down, which centralized bitcoin exchange are you going to use?

Fortunately we still have a local exchange that can still be used, if Binance goes down, but right now I'm still using Binance, Coinbase exchange is not good for me, but Coinbase is better for other people.

However, I have used several exchanges, Binance I stayed with, others I abandoned, of course I did that for my personal reasons, despite some negative news and responses to Binance, I hope it has no effect in the future, hoping Binance exchange stays safe and survives.

Why still use Binance or Coinbase during this uncertainty...why use them at all when centralized exchanges have proven to be dangerous time and time again? Why continue to run the several risks (theft, manipulation, sacrifice of privacy) by continuing to use centralized exchanges after moving away from Binance when the time comes that you have to?

Why not use Peer to Peer marketplaces like HodlHodl and AgoraDesk for your fiat <> crypto needs, and decentralized exchanges/bridges for on-chain movements? You retain privacy, custody and gain exposure to data oracles instead of centralized price data. Risk and security is much more in your control.

I'll talk about my case for example, I also don't like and don't trust exchanges, but I do day trade, so for that I need to keep following the price, looking at the chart and when I see that there is a good buying opportunity I buy right away, so far there is nothing complex and it could be done on decentralized exchanges, but the problem arises that when I buy bitcoin at $30,500 for example, I need to protect myself from the risk of the price falling too much, so for that I use the stop-loss, and if I left bitcoin in my wallet, I wouldn't have this stop-loss feature and I don't know if decentralized exchanges have this feature

another point has to do with volume, binance has good volume in the btc - usdt pair for me to day trade, not to mention that it has a good interface, obviously I don't put a lot of money there and I don't put all my capital, I put a part of the money destined for me to day trade. I believe that centralized exchanges will always be superior to decentralized ones for several reasons, I myself have already mentioned these various reasons in this post. also, we can't forget that in this cryptocurrency market lately everything asks for kyc, so centralization is the way we are going

[BenCodie]

I'll talk about my case for example, I also don't like and don't trust exchanges, but I do day trade, so for that I need to keep following the price, looking at the chart and when I see that there is a good buying opportunity I buy right away, so far there is nothing complex and it could be done on decentralized exchanges, but the problem arises that when I buy bitcoin at $30,500 for example, I need to protect myself from the risk of the price falling too much, so for that I use the stop-loss, and if I left bitcoin in my wallet, I wouldn't have this stop-loss feature and I don't know if decentralized exchanges have this feature

another point has to do with volume, binance has good volume in the btc - usdt pair for me to day trade, not to mention that it has a good interface, obviously I don't put a lot of money there and I don't put all my capital, I put a part of the money destined for me to day trade. I believe that centralized exchanges will always be superior to decentralized ones for several reasons, I myself have already mentioned these various reasons in this post. also, we can't forget that in this cryptocurrency market lately everything asks for kyc, so centralization is the way we are going

I do fear that when I talk about decentralized exchanges, people tend to think of Uniswap only and don't explore further than that. If you are looking only at decentralized exchanges like Uniswap, then you are right. The position management features (like stops and take profits) are not available. However it should be noted that Uniswap is better described as a decentralized swap platform, not really an exchange.

I highly recommend checking out Arbitrum One, an Ethereum layer 2 solution which has many decentralized exchange projects that are reliable, liquid, and some of which have stood the test of time. One of these are GMX.io, which has the features you are looking for. I only suggest GMX over other solutions as this DEX has definitely stood the time test to date.

If you're worried about liquidity of Arbitrum, it is the top layer 2 solution in terms of TVL (total value locked). In other words, it has more liquidity than all Ethereum-based solutions other than Ethereum itself. If you're worried about fees per trade, transaction fees are less than $0.01 generally and trading fees are generally more competitive than centralized exchanges. In terms of volume and trade data, most decentralized exchanges use Oracle data and AMMs (automated market makers) to ensure prices have no slippage (just like Binance do, by the way. What you see is AMMs not 100℅ real trading volume by real traders).

Arbitrum have a directory of Dex's on their website. I recommend you go check it out, give them a try and report back your results so others can take note of this alternative.

It might seem like centralization is where we are headed to those who aren't fully aware of the alternatives like Arbitrum and other solutions...though the reality is we are splitting. The unaware will KYC on CEXs while the wise will move to decentralized solutions (since they are already liquid and available).

[bullrun2024bro]

It looks like Binance is currently pushing Source of Wealth Declarations in several European countries.



Source: https://twitter.com/heartereum/status/1679152137182257152/photo/1

In addition, there have been rumours in Germany for some time that Binance has passed on transaction histories and user data to the authorities on a large scale (but there is no direct source for this). However, the authorities have announced in the Bitcoin.de court case in which 4000 data sets were handed to the NRW authorities, that other exchanges could follow soon. In this case, suspicion falls on Binance again.

If you have to use a CEX as a FIAT gateway, think twice if you still want to use Binance.

[dkbit98]

Arbitrum have a directory of Dex's on their website. I recommend you go check it out, give them a try and report back your results so others can take note of this alternative.

This is only available for shitcoins and they don't support fiat currencies, so this is more or less all worthless crap.

It looks like Binance is currently pushing Source of Wealth Declarations in several European countries.

I am not supporting Binance at all, but I don't think they are the first exchange who is doing this, so they are probably pushed by some regulations from those European countries.
This is unacceptable for anyone who want's to have more privacy, but I guess they wouldn't be on Binance after they announced strict kyc rules.
Luckily there are solid decentralized alternatives like Bisq, Peach Bitcoin, Robosats, Agora desk, etc. for exchanging Bitcoin to fiat and vice versa.

[Rikafip]

It looks like Binance is currently pushing Source of Wealth Declarations in several European countries.

So far I haven't gotten anything so I guess Croatia is not included yet, but since they started enforcing this in some EU countries its just a matter of time when it becomes mandatory for users in all EU countries.

In addition, there have been rumours in Germany for some time that Binance has passed on transaction histories and user data to the authorities on a large scale (but there is no direct source for this). However, the authorities have announced in the Bitcoin.de court case in which 4000 data sets were handed to the NRW authorities, that other exchanges could follow soon. In this case, suspicion falls on Binance again.

Even if its just a rumour, sooner or later it will become reality as that will be the only way Binance will get license to operate in EU.

[BenCodie]

Arbitrum have a directory of Dex's on their website. I recommend you go check it out, give them a try and report back your results so others can take note of this alternative.

This is only available for shitcoins and they don't support fiat currencies, so this is more or less all worthless crap.

LOL. Majority of the DEXs only support top 50 currencies, some just the top 10. If you're referring to wrapped tokens are shitcoins, they're completely liquid and bridgeable with no slippage from the layer 2 chain, to ethereum or even the Bitclin blockchain.

As for fiat on ramps, some of the DEXs do have card gateways because they are established technology companies. Obviously you're just being one sided with your outdated opinion and haven't actually looked into Arbitrum and how powerful it actually is...and, how liquid it is.

You may have been right to call WBTC and other tokens shitcoins 3 years ago when they first came about' however the liquidity of Arbitrum and the wrapped tokens in the Ethereum ecosystem are as liquid, if not more liquid, than some of the centralized exchanges that people still use.

[Rikafip]

LOL.Majority of the DEXs only support top 50 currencies, some just the top 10. If you're referring to wrapped tokens are shitcoins, they're completely liquid and bridgeable with no slippage from the layer 2 chain, to ethereum or even the Bitclin blockchain.

Since dkbit98 is essentially a bitcoin maxi, everything else is shitcoin including all those "top ones" (except maybe Monero?) no matter how liquid they are, hence his stance.

[dkbit98]

LOL. Majority of the DEXs only support top 50 currencies, some just the top 10. If you're referring to wrapped tokens are shitcoins, they're completely liquid and bridgeable with no slippage from the layer 2 chain, to ethereum or even the Bitclin blockchain.

Either you can't read what I wrote or you are pretending you don't understand.
I am not interested in any wrap shit and I was talking mostly about fiat currencies.
Liquidity for most shitcoins is fake and everyone knows that, well maybe except you.

As for fiat on ramps, some of the DEXs do have card gateways because they are established technology companies. Obviously you're just being one sided with your outdated opinion and haven't actually looked into Arbitrum and how powerful it actually is...and, how liquid it is.

Go ahead and try to sell Bitcoin for fiat currencies on those ''top'' shitcoin exchanges, and tell me how it goes for you.
Good luck.

You may have been right to call WBTC and other tokens shitcoins 3 years ago when they first came about' however the liquidity of Arbitrum and the wrapped tokens in the Ethereum ecosystem are as liquid, if not more liquid, than some of the centralized exchanges that people still use.

It's all semi-scam shitcoins controlled by creator of that centralized chains, and few of his buddies.
This is a fact, sorry for bursting your dream bubble, and do more research about this.

[bullrun2024bro]

Even if its just a rumour, sooner or later it will become reality as that will be the only way Binance will get license to operate in EU.

Yea, you are maybe right.

What annoys me the most is not necessarily the fact that Binance may have handed over user data to the German authorities (that's also crap ofc, but if they want to operate in the EU, they have to comply with the law). But rather that this may have happened on a large scale and without a German court order.

And it feels more like this: Hey authorities, take everything you want and much more, as long as you let us continue to do business in your country.

If Binance, in anticipatory obedience, really passes on my data to any authority without my knowledge and without being legally obliged to do so, I find that more than questionable. To be honest, there can be no greater red flag.

And the case around the German exchange Bitcoin.de is in fact completely different. Until the data was handed over to the German authorities, there was a long legal dispute, because Bitcoin.de was initially not willing to hand over the user data. Only when they were obliged to do so by a German court ruling they handed over the data. They at least tried to protect the privacy of their users. Binance, on the other hand, doesn't seem to care about the privacy of its users at all.

[BenCodie]

LOL. Majority of the DEXs only support top 50 currencies, some just the top 10. If you're referring to wrapped tokens are shitcoins, they're completely liquid and bridgeable with no slippage from the layer 2 chain, to ethereum or even the Bitclin blockchain.

Either you can't read what I wrote or you are pretending you don't understand.
I am not interested in any wrap shit and I was talking mostly about fiat currencies.
Liquidity for most shitcoins is fake and everyone knows that, well maybe except you.

I could say the same thing as I never once mentioned that DEXs provided the ability to sell crypto for fiat. No dex does, because it can't be a DEX otherwise.

The wrapped assets are not garbage if they're entirely liquid and made liquid in a decentralized manner. Wrapped assets have been around for a long time and they exist on all EVM chains to enable decentralized usage. They will only become garbage if decentralized protocols on Bitcoin beat utility and capability of EVM chains, which at this point is extremely unlikely anytime soon.

I AM NOT talking about true shitcoins. Like pump and dump memecoin crap or scam/hyped projects. I am talking about wrapped assets like WBTC, WETH, etc. Which are perfectly viable and liquid on the top chains, and will be for as long as use cases on EVMs are wider than BTC.

As for fiat on ramps, some of the DEXs do have card gateways because they are established technology companies. Obviously you're just being one sided with your outdated opinion and haven't actually looked into Arbitrum and how powerful it actually is...and, how liquid it is.

Go ahead and try to sell Bitcoin for fiat currencies on those ''top'' shitcoin exchanges, and tell me how it goes for you.
Good luck.

They have card gateways for buying. Swapping them back into BTC is easy, requires no slippage and is a liquid process. The purpose of DEXs are not to liquidate BTC for fiat, it's to decentralize trading of blockchain assets.

If you want to sell for fiat, use P2P. If you're still using CEXs for withdrawing, you're a pleb.

You may have been right to call WBTC and other tokens shitcoins 3 years ago when they first came about' however the liquidity of Arbitrum and the wrapped tokens in the Ethereum ecosystem are as liquid, if not more liquid, than some of the centralized exchanges that people still use.

It's all semi-scam shitcoins controlled by creator of that centralized chains, and few of his buddies.
This is a fact, sorry for bursting your dream bubble, and do more research about this.

You're not bursting any dream bubble, as the dream bubble doesn't exist. It's already reality. I see and use these protocols on a daily basis and am talking from experience.

If you honestly think all layer2/EVM ecosystems are controlled by few people and the protocols within them are fake, you are the one in the bubble. There are tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of contributors who are building web3 via EVMs.

Yes, I agree, no due diligence = likelihood of scam. Is that not the case in Bitcoin too? So when there's bad actors in an ecosystem, the entire ecosystem should be considered scam? How is that mentality any better than the bankers and the media when they were calling bitcoin a criminal network, a scam, a ponzi, etc? It's exactly the same mentality...

The real semi-scam created by a creator and a few of his buddies are Binance and Tron. Decentralized protocols that are true, open source and liquid are for the betterment of finance, just like Bitcoin.

LOL.Majority of the DEXs only support top 50 currencies, some just the top 10. If you're referring to wrapped tokens are shitcoins, they're completely liquid and bridgeable with no slippage from the layer 2 chain, to ethereum or even the Bitclin blockchain.

Since dkbit98 is essentially a bitcoin maxi, everything else is shitcoin including all those "top ones" (except maybe Monero?) no matter how liquid they are, hence his stance.

Being a maxi was fine til 2020. Before that; "everything else is a shitcoin" was a perfectly reasonable outlook. 2021/2022 that same outlook was appropriate for the sake of skepticism but reality is that you were losing touch. 2023 you're just unaware. 2024 onwards you'll just be sounding more and more repetitive and factually inaccurate, and eventually people will not only get sick of correcting you, but sick of reading what you have to say.

Innovation does not only legitimately reside within the Bitcoin ecosystem. If you believe that, right now you're just unaware...soon you'll start hurting your own credibility through shortsightedness...Just like banks, politicians and media did when they acted like money couldn't be innovated and every money system other than fiat was a form of scam.

[dkbit98]

I could say the same thing as I never once mentioned that DEXs provided the ability to sell crypto for fiat. No dex does, because it can't be a DEX otherwise.

This is not true!
All decentralized exchanges I mentioned all have real volume, not like your ''top gun'' exchanges  

The wrapped assets are not garbage if they're entirely liquid and made liquid in a decentralized manner.

They are all centralized garbage, and please STOP promoting shitcoin and shitcoin services in this forum section.
All tokens claiming to be Bitcoin are NOT bitcoin, that is a fact, but go ahead and use them if you want.

If you want to sell for fiat, use P2P. If you're still using CEXs for withdrawing, you're a pleb.

No, use your shitcoin exchanges for selling, you said they work with fiat, so use them if you can... don't mix P2P exchanges here.

If you honestly think all layer2/EVM ecosystems are controlled by few people and the protocols within them are fake, you are the one in the bubble. There are tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of contributors who are building web3 via EVMs.

Hahaha what a bunch of fantasy dreams.
Try running a node on those shitcoins, it's almost impossible to do it for regular person and I don't know a single person who runs shitereum and polyscam nodes.

Yes, I agree, no due diligence = likelihood of scam. Is that not the case in Bitcoin too?

No it's not.