Can metal detectors detect metal seed storage plates ?

[Becassine]

Most hardware wallets are not made from metal and stainless steel, so you don't have to worry about that.
Ledger does have one metal part made from stainless steel, but it only serves as protection for fragile plastic body and you can easily remove it yourself.

When I read this kind of answer, I think that I don't know how to ask a question, that there is a language problem or that I give the impression of being completely stupid. Maybe all three at the same time? 
Otherwise thanks for the link at the end, it's not bad.

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[m2017]

It depends what metal you use.

The general advice if going for a metal back up is to use stainless steel, since this gives a good balance between hardness, fire proof, corrosion proof, as well as cost. In general, stainless steel is a very poor conductor of electricity and poorly magnetic when compared to most other metals, and can often go undetected by metal detectors, especially if it is very small in size. If you are very concerned about such an attack, then just use two or more paper back ups in different geographical locations. This is generally better than a single metal back up anyway.

I have to say though, if you have a thief in your house using a metal detector to find your metal back up, then your op-sec has spectacularly failed and everything you have is probably at risk by that point.

On the Internet, write that stainless steel types 304 and 316 are the worst to detect with a metal detector. Therefore, if your goal is to protect your wallet from a metal detector, then you can choose this type of steel.

So, I think that this metal is one of the best choices, along with the advantages that you describe. I would also add the ease of accessibility of stainless steel.

Hello, I would like to know if the new generation metal detectors detect or not the stainless steel of which the metal wallets are made. Indeed, if these wallets are detectable, then we should probably think about changing the hiding place or put something around them to avoid that the metal detectors find them, no? What do you think about it?

To outsmart an attacker with metal detector, you can make a distraction him from your metal wallet. For example, place the seed-phrase in a place where there are a lot of other metal things around. Better yet, place a metal wallet in some kind of metal structure consisting of iron (this is most often found in our daily life), for example. Thus, the top layer of metal will act as a screen, under which the metal wallet will not be detected.

It should be taken into account that the metal wallet is not defined in any other way: visually, tactilely or otherwise.

[Pmalek]

As for the metalwallets, look at Jameson Lopp's tests and you'll know what it means 
https://blog.lopp.net/metal-bitcoin-seed-storage-stress-tests-round-v/

Those are not "metal wallets" as you called them. Those are metal seed plates used for storing recovery phrases. Two very different things. You should consider editing the subject because most people got the wrong idea. I was also under the impression you were talking about the actual hardware wallet devices made of metal. That's why I mentioned Ledger with its metal cover as an example and couldn't think of any other similar product.

[dkbit98]

When I read this kind of answer, I think that I don't know how to ask a question, that there is a language problem or that I give the impression of being completely stupid. Maybe all three at the same time?  

It's a small language barrier but don't worry about it, I understand what you wanted to say.
In fact there are few hardware wallet devices that are really made from stainless steel (like Keevo Model 1), so I just wanted to make clear difference between hardware wallets and wallet backups (metal plates, washers, etc).
Member maxirosson is maintaining a nice spreadsheet of popular hardware wallets and he recently added material they are build from:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-8DLbhxtOcDEBPl8-IAGWaoyx1H02JSz9hADCgAGyCo/edit#gid=0

[Becassine]

Thank you very much, I was far, far from imagining all these nuances and I see that I still have a lot to learn  

I now have so many tabs open with stuff to read that my pc will crash again   

What should I put as title please?

[Pmalek]

What should I put as title please?

For example, you could write metal seed storage plates because they are supposed to be the main focus of attention. And then you can mention in the OP the same phrase or change it a bit to metal plates for recovery phrases, etc.  

[Saint-loup]

I think you misunderstood OP. He is not talking about the metal detectors in airports or government buildings, but hand-carried devices. As in, a thief entering your home with a metal detector and scanning your house with it. Our homes have metal anyways. In walls, the floor, and ceiling. You have pipes and wires running everywhere. You have the supporting metal structure, then screws and nails in your furniture. I guess the metal detector would be buzzing more often then you think. 

Metal detectors are able to discriminate the kind of metal they are detecting, so they can easily discriminate the gold of jewelry from the copper of wires or the iron in the load-bearing walls for example. I don't think it should be as easy as detecting some gold or silver in a house, but in a small house or a flat it shouldn't be really long IMO.

[Wapfika]

Is the scenario you are afraid is a thief carrying metal detector because onlyma thief that knew exactly what they are finding will put an effort to use this device compared on getting valuable things like jewelry, gadgets and other non-metal precious material. Afaik metal detector produce some noisy sounds so I doubt a thief will use it to scan a house and look for you steel plate private key. Although playing safe is not bad but I still don't read any news that a thief use a metal detector to scan their victim.

Anyway, this is why privacy matters most to protect your wallet. No one will attempt to steal your storage plates if they donihave any info that you have it inside your house.

[dkbit98]

What should I put as title please?

It's not a big mistake, s you can just add word - backups, so it would be something like this:
A) metal wallet backups and metal detectors.
B) metal seed words backups and metal detectors.
C) metal recovery phrase backups and metal  detectors.

I don't judge book by it's cover, it can have perfect title and be crap when you read it, same goes with forum topics.
It's better to have average title and good content and discussion

[Becassine]

What should I put as title please?

It's not a big mistake, s you can just add word - backups, so it would be something like this:
A) metal wallet backups and metal detectors.
B) metal seed words backups and metal detectors.
C) metal recovery phrase backups and metal  detectors.

I don't judge book by it's cover, it can have perfect title and be crap when you read it, same goes with forum topics.
It's better to have average title and good content and discussion

So I made a crappy cover but luckily the bitcointalkers save me by writing interesting stuff  . That's also why I like to come on this forum, there will always be someone to save me and teach me something. By the way the hardwarewallets list is really great and the link too.

[m2017]

Another idea if you want to hide your seed phrase from metal detection. It is NOT to use metal plates. To do this, you can use plates from

1 - fiberglass or glass fiber laminate (without a metal layer of copper, so that the detector doesn't detect it), which has mechanical resistance, inertness to chemicals, moisture and water, resistance to thermal effects, but I suppose it will be vulnerable in a strong fire.

or

2 - ebonite, which is resistant to alkalis and acids, resistant to water, lends itself well to engraving (machining). Doesn't burn, but chars at high temperatures, which may make the text on the surface unreadable. So slightly brittle that it increases at low temperatures.

You can search for other materials with similar properties. These, of course, are a little exotic, but quite accessible if desired (depending on the location) and can be used to achieve OP's goals. You should also know that both fiberglass and ebonite come in different grades and have different characteristics. In general, if the goal is to make the seed phrase invisible to a metal detector and there is no threat of burning, then this option can be used.

[Saint-loup]

Another idea if you want to hide your seed phrase from metal detection. It is NOT to use metal plates. To do this, you can use plates from

1 - fiberglass or glass fiber laminate (without a metal layer of copper, so that the detector doesn't detect it), which has mechanical resistance, inertness to chemicals, moisture and water, resistance to thermal effects, but I suppose it will be vulnerable in a strong fire.

or

2 - ebonite, which is resistant to alkalis and acids, resistant to water, lends itself well to engraving (machining). Doesn't burn, but chars at high temperatures, which may make the text on the surface unreadable. So slightly brittle that it increases at low temperatures.

You can search for other materials with similar properties. These, of course, are a little exotic, but quite accessible if desired (depending on the location) and can be used to achieve OP's goals. You should also know that both fiberglass and ebonite come in different grades and have different characteristics. In general, if the goal is to make the seed phrase invisible to a metal detector and there is no threat of burning, then this option can be used.

Why not using a polished stone instead or a granite/marble plaque used to decorate graves? I know it's quite difficult to engrave but it's very resistant to water and fire (even more than most of metals IMO) and it can't be detected by metal detectors, another option could be to use some cement, it's easier to engrave and to manipulate.

[Pmalek]

1 - fiberglass or glass fiber laminate (without a metal layer of copper, so that the detector doesn't detect it), which has mechanical resistance, inertness to chemicals, moisture and water, resistance to thermal effects, but I suppose it will be vulnerable in a strong fire.

I guess it depends on the type of fire and the flame in the building. Some basic googling shows that house fire temperatures start from 1100°C and can go up to 3000°C depending on the flame. Wikipedia and some other sources say that fiberglass starts softening up at 1200°C and starts melting at 1700°C. Maybe it could survive the weakest of flames, but it stands no chance against the worst types of fires.

[m2017]

Another idea if you want to hide your seed phrase from metal detection. It is NOT to use metal plates. To do this, you can use plates from

1 - fiberglass or glass fiber laminate (without a metal layer of copper, so that the detector doesn't detect it), which has mechanical resistance, inertness to chemicals, moisture and water, resistance to thermal effects, but I suppose it will be vulnerable in a strong fire.

or

2 - ebonite, which is resistant to alkalis and acids, resistant to water, lends itself well to engraving (machining). Doesn't burn, but chars at high temperatures, which may make the text on the surface unreadable. So slightly brittle that it increases at low temperatures.

You can search for other materials with similar properties. These, of course, are a little exotic, but quite accessible if desired (depending on the location) and can be used to achieve OP's goals. You should also know that both fiberglass and ebonite come in different grades and have different characteristics. In general, if the goal is to make the seed phrase invisible to a metal detector and there is no threat of burning, then this option can be used.

Why not using a polished stone instead or a granite/marble plaque used to decorate graves? I know it's quite difficult to engrave but it's very resistant to water and fire (even more than most of metals IMO) and it can't be detected by metal detectors, another option could be to use some cement, it's easier to engrave and to manipulate.

Maybe because special equipment is required to apply text on a granite or marble slab? You're not ready to show your seed phrase to an engraver, right. Also, there is a size issue. A marble or granite plate will be larger than a fiberglass plate, for example. Otherwise, it will be fragile.

Cement is easily destroyed, especially if the manufacturing technology of this is not followed. Then you should prefer some polymeric compounds (based on marble, basalt, granite, quartz) that are used in the manufacture of stone countertops or sinks. But I can't say how polymer resins will behave in a fire.

In general, as I have said more than once: the choice of storage method and material is limited only by your imagination and goals.

1 - fiberglass or glass fiber laminate (without a metal layer of copper, so that the detector doesn't detect it), which has mechanical resistance, inertness to chemicals, moisture and water, resistance to thermal effects, but I suppose it will be vulnerable in a strong fire.

I guess it depends on the type of fire and the flame in the building. Some basic googling shows that house fire temperatures start from 1100°C and can go up to 3000°C depending on the flame. Wikipedia and some other sources say that fiberglass starts softening up at 1200°C and starts melting at 1700°C. Maybe it could survive the weakest of flames, but it stands no chance against the worst types of fires.

What do you think I focused on? You highlighted this text in bold and simply described what I said in more detail. But thanks for your clarification.

~snip
You can search for other materials with similar properties. These, of course, are a little exotic, but quite accessible if desired (depending on the location) and can be used to achieve OP's goals. You should also know that both fiberglass and ebonite come in different grades and have different characteristics. In general, if the goal is to make the seed phrase invisible to a metal detector and there is no threat of burning, then this option can be used.

I have nothing to add to this.

[Synchronice]

Another idea if you want to hide your seed phrase from metal detection. It is NOT to use metal plates. To do this, you can use plates from

1 - fiberglass or glass fiber laminate (without a metal layer of copper, so that the detector doesn't detect it), which has mechanical resistance, inertness to chemicals, moisture and water, resistance to thermal effects, but I suppose it will be vulnerable in a strong fire.

This sounds interesting. How are you gonna print bitcoin seeds on fiberglass laminate? By the way, Fiberglass Fireproof Bag looks pretty good to save important papers, overall.

Why not using a polished stone instead or a granite/marble plaque used to decorate graves? I know it's quite difficult to engrave but it's very resistant to water and fire (even more than most of metals IMO) and it can't be detected by metal detectors, another option could be to use some cement, it's easier to engrave and to manipulate.

In order to save wallet seeds, you need to make your polished stone a little bit wide in width and if you do so, they are easy to break if you put force on the centroid. One can make a thick polished stone but that can be a problematic to save and is impractical. Also, how are you going to write down your seeds on polished stone? Are you gonna hit hammer on nail on your polished stone?

[philipma1957]

It depends what metal you use.

The general advice if going for a metal back up is to use stainless steel, since this gives a good balance between hardness, fire proof, corrosion proof, as well as cost. In general, stainless steel is a very poor conductor of electricity and poorly magnetic when compared to most other metals, and can often go undetected by metal detectors, especially if it is very small in size. If you are very concerned about such an attack, then just use two or more paper back ups in different geographical locations. This is generally better than a single metal back up anyway.

I have to say though, if you have a thief in your house using a metal detector to find your metal back up, then your op-sec has spectacularly failed and everything you have is probably at risk by that point.

Yeah I would think 5 dollar wrench would be next at that point.

[m2017]

Another idea if you want to hide your seed phrase from metal detection. It is NOT to use metal plates. To do this, you can use plates from

1 - fiberglass or glass fiber laminate (without a metal layer of copper, so that the detector doesn't detect it), which has mechanical resistance, inertness to chemicals, moisture and water, resistance to thermal effects, but I suppose it will be vulnerable in a strong fire.

This sounds interesting. How are you gonna print bitcoin seeds on fiberglass laminate? By the way, Fiberglass Fireproof Bag looks pretty good to save important papers, overall.

Nothing is impossible if use brain a little.

For example, a dremel or an engraving machine can engrave any text.

There is another solution: to drill small holes in such a way that the points in the collection form the text.

Why not using a polished stone instead or a granite/marble plaque used to decorate graves? I know it's quite difficult to engrave but it's very resistant to water and fire (even more than most of metals IMO) and it can't be detected by metal detectors, another option could be to use some cement, it's easier to engrave and to manipulate.

In order to save wallet seeds, you need to make your polished stone a little bit wide in width and if you do so, they are easy to break if you put force on the centroid. One can make a thick polished stone but that can be a problematic to save and is impractical. Also, how are you going to write down your seeds on polished stone? Are you gonna hit hammer on nail on your polished stone?

Memorial services somehow put text on such stones, right? The question is only in the presence of the necessary equipment. Theoretically, you can try an engraving machine with a suitable head. But in general, the idea of ​​a seed phrase from a stone seems to me unnecessarily exotic, impractical and creating an extra headache with the manufacture.

It depends what metal you use.

The general advice if going for a metal back up is to use stainless steel, since this gives a good balance between hardness, fire proof, corrosion proof, as well as cost. In general, stainless steel is a very poor conductor of electricity and poorly magnetic when compared to most other metals, and can often go undetected by metal detectors, especially if it is very small in size. If you are very concerned about such an attack, then just use two or more paper back ups in different geographical locations. This is generally better than a single metal back up anyway.

I have to say though, if you have a thief in your house using a metal detector to find your metal back up, then your op-sec has spectacularly failed and everything you have is probably at risk by that point.

Yeah I would think 5 dollar wrench would be next at that point.

This option is the easiest and fastest to get the seed phrase, regardless of the material used, be it metal, paper or something exotic.

[Synchronice]

As far as I know, depth also matters.  The deeper you bury it, the harder they find it.

Definitely it matters. The deeper you bury it, the harder it will be for metal detector to detect. Personally I know that if you bury something 50 centimeter deeper, it will be difficult for most metal detectors to detect it.
Also, a material that blocks electromagnetic waves, will make the whole job much more difficult for metal detectors but you know, your last hope is to pray if someone uses ground-penetrating radar

Another idea if you want to hide your seed phrase from metal detection. It is NOT to use metal plates. To do this, you can use plates from

1 - fiberglass or glass fiber laminate (without a metal layer of copper, so that the detector doesn't detect it), which has mechanical resistance, inertness to chemicals, moisture and water, resistance to thermal effects, but I suppose it will be vulnerable in a strong fire.

This sounds interesting. How are you gonna print bitcoin seeds on fiberglass laminate? By the way, Fiberglass Fireproof Bag looks pretty good to save important papers, overall.

Nothing is impossible if use brain a little.

For example, a dremel or an engraving machine can engrave any text.

There is another solution: to drill small holes in such a way that the points in the collection form the text.

When I googled fiberglass laminate, I got mixed pictures and some of them looked very unpractical to use in any case, for example cloth. I think you mean Fiberglass sheet in this case, right? Or in a best case, laminated fiberglass sheet or epoxy fiberglass plate sheet. Right term will make it easier to understand what you actually mean.

Memorial services somehow put text on such stones, right? The question is only in the presence of the necessary equipment. Theoretically, you can try an engraving machine with a suitable head. But in general, the idea of ​​a seed phrase from a stone seems to me unnecessarily exotic, impractical and creating an extra headache with the manufacture.

And do you think it's safe if you ask memorial services to put seed phrases on the stone? If we are not limited to the necessary equipment and money and everything, then I think that Corazon Titanium wallet, thatI already highlighted in this thread, is the best option.

[darkangel11]

IMO, you're complicating the problem and overthinking it, because using a metal detector to find a metal wallet inside a house is almost impossible. The only way this could be viable is if you were trying to hide a metal plate inside furniture, or if you were living in a wooden hut.

I'll give you an example of my own house.
The roof is metal, you're not going to be able to find a metal plate if I make a slot in the drywall ceiling because right above it, there's a ton of sheet metal.
There's a lot of wiring in the walls and some of them are plasterboard partition walls with metal studs inside. The detector is going to go crazy in there, showing everything to be metal. Are you going to rip every single wall to see what's inside? It's going to take days.
The floor is reinforced concrete with steel mesh inside. This is all going to show as one big metal slab. If I cut a slot in the floor and put the metal wallet in there the only way to find it is to remove all the flooring...

Nobody is going to come to your house with a detector in hope of getting lucky with your metal wallet, but if you're afraid, you can always use a copper plate and put it behind one of the outlets. The detector is going to show copper there because of the wiring, so it's going to look normal on the detector.

[Saint-loup]

IMO, you're complicating the problem and overthinking it, because using a metal detector to find a metal wallet inside a house is almost impossible. The only way this could be viable is if you were trying to hide a metal plate inside furniture, or if you were living in a wooden hut.

I'll give you an example of my own house.
The roof is metal, you're not going to be able to find a metal plate if I make a slot in the drywall ceiling because right above it, there's a ton of sheet metal.
There's a lot of wiring in the walls and some of them are plasterboard partition walls with metal studs inside. The detector is going to go crazy in there, showing everything to be metal. Are you going to rip every single wall to see what's inside? It's going to take days.
The floor is reinforced concrete with steel mesh inside. This is all going to show as one big metal slab. If I cut a slot in the floor and put the metal wallet in there the only way to find it is to remove all the flooring...

Nobody is going to come to your house with a detector in hope of getting lucky with your metal wallet, but if you're afraid, you can always use a copper plate and put it behind one of the outlets. The detector is going to show copper there because of the wiring, so it's going to look normal on the detector.

I don't think many burglars break into houses in order to rob metal wallets. But in our country, it's quite common for burglars to use metal detectors in order to find jewelry more quickly, so it's not really overthinking to be concerned about that imo because burglars could find it while looking for something else. In a flat there are less safe places to hide a thing like that, in addition, because you don't want inquisitive guests to find it.