Russia Becomes World’s Second-Largest Crypto Miner

[Synchronice]

Unlivable? Maybe. But machines doesn't need to "live". They need to work. And even so, when the market demands, people adapt! Never underestimate the power of Bitcoin. If the county embrace mining, they will find ways to make those 60% livable. Or at least in a way they can manage farms!
And don't forget that China is friends with Russia. China holds the monopoly of ASIC manufacturers. See:
https://www.asicminervalue.com/manufacturers

Can Russians pay more than Americans? Or Europeans? Compare GDP, compare their economies. Who is China's biggest trading partner? Americans or Russians? What do you call a friendship? It's a business and in business, the one that pays the most is your friend.
Also, there is just no way to make that 60% livable and I bet 1% of that 60% will be more than enough to place tons of miners but if there is an 51% network attack, things will not develop in a way they want. What if western people abandon Bitcoin in case Russia takes it over?

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[darkv0rt3x]

Unlivable? Maybe. But machines doesn't need to "live". They need to work. And even so, when the market demands, people adapt! Never underestimate the power of Bitcoin. If the county embrace mining, they will find ways to make those 60% livable. Or at least in a way they can manage farms!
And don't forget that China is friends with Russia. China holds the monopoly of ASIC manufacturers. See:
https://www.asicminervalue.com/manufacturers

Can Russians pay more than Americans? Or Europeans? Compare GDP, compare their economies. Who is China's biggest trading partner? Americans or Russians? What do you call a friendship? It's a business and in business, the one that pays the most is your friend.
Also, there is just no way to make that 60% livable and I bet 1% of that 60% will be more than enough to place tons of miners but if there is an 51% network attack, things will not develop in a way they want. What if western people abandon Bitcoin in case Russia takes it over?

That's the point. Russia has the power to produce energy. What else you need cheap? If you have cheap energy and you have a partner to sell you miners, that's the cherry on top of the cake!
And about friendships, I wouldn't bet my life on what you say of who pays better is your friend! But ok, that's also a point!
And the 51% attack, that's also the point. If you let USA to take all the mining power, then it's way easier to make a 51% attack to take place. If you have some competition, aka in Russia, then, mining is a bit more decentralised! That's my view!

[Synchronice]

Unlivable? Maybe. But machines doesn't need to "live". They need to work. And even so, when the market demands, people adapt! Never underestimate the power of Bitcoin. If the county embrace mining, they will find ways to make those 60% livable. Or at least in a way they can manage farms!
And don't forget that China is friends with Russia. China holds the monopoly of ASIC manufacturers. See:
https://www.asicminervalue.com/manufacturers

Can Russians pay more than Americans? Or Europeans? Compare GDP, compare their economies. Who is China's biggest trading partner? Americans or Russians? What do you call a friendship? It's a business and in business, the one that pays the most is your friend.
Also, there is just no way to make that 60% livable and I bet 1% of that 60% will be more than enough to place tons of miners but if there is an 51% network attack, things will not develop in a way they want. What if western people abandon Bitcoin in case Russia takes it over?

That's the point. Russia has the power to produce energy. What else you need cheap? If you have cheap energy and you have a partner to sell you miners, that's the cherry on top of the cake!
And about friendships, I wouldn't bet my life on what you say of who pays better is your friend! But ok, that's also a point!
And the 51% attack, that's also the point. If you let USA to take all the mining power, then it's way easier to make a 51% attack to take place. If you have some competition, aka in Russia, then, mining is a bit more decentralised! That's my view!

Russia has a cheap energy, okay, but Russia is a cheap buyer too. The USA can bid more than Russians, in absolutely everything. China is a country that manufactures goods and exports, how will they benefit with Russian market? America and Europe is by far the most profitable market for them.

You ignore the fact that Russia is a very corrupt country and is owned by a group of KGB agents. Russia is not a country with freedom of business. Also, you have to keep in mind that Western countries are far developed with far better quality of life than Russia, China or BRICS countries overall. You will not see expats from G7 countries to BRICS countries but the opposite happens very often, people from BRICS countries pay a lot of money to cross the Mexico-America border or to move in Europe and do unskilled jobs.

[FP91G]

China owned enough hashrate for a 51% attack, but it didn't happen. It is difficult to run a mining business in Russia and the new mining law in 2024 will add to the problems because many miners did not pay all taxes, but only a small part. If the law requires declaring the amount of equipment as in the United States, then in Russia a lot of equipment is imported without declaring it at customs.

[darkv0rt3x]

Unlivable? Maybe. But machines doesn't need to "live". They need to work. And even so, when the market demands, people adapt! Never underestimate the power of Bitcoin. If the county embrace mining, they will find ways to make those 60% livable. Or at least in a way they can manage farms!
And don't forget that China is friends with Russia. China holds the monopoly of ASIC manufacturers. See:
https://www.asicminervalue.com/manufacturers

Can Russians pay more than Americans? Or Europeans? Compare GDP, compare their economies. Who is China's biggest trading partner? Americans or Russians? What do you call a friendship? It's a business and in business, the one that pays the most is your friend.
Also, there is just no way to make that 60% livable and I bet 1% of that 60% will be more than enough to place tons of miners but if there is an 51% network attack, things will not develop in a way they want. What if western people abandon Bitcoin in case Russia takes it over?

That's the point. Russia has the power to produce energy. What else you need cheap? If you have cheap energy and you have a partner to sell you miners, that's the cherry on top of the cake!
And about friendships, I wouldn't bet my life on what you say of who pays better is your friend! But ok, that's also a point!
And the 51% attack, that's also the point. If you let USA to take all the mining power, then it's way easier to make a 51% attack to take place. If you have some competition, aka in Russia, then, mining is a bit more decentralised! That's my view!

Russia has a cheap energy, okay, but Russia is a cheap buyer too. The USA can bid more than Russians, in absolutely everything. China is a country that manufactures goods and exports, how will they benefit with Russian market? America and Europe is by far the most profitable market for them.

You ignore the fact that Russia is a very corrupt country and is owned by a group of KGB agents. Russia is not a country with freedom of business. Also, you have to keep in mind that Western countries are far developed with far better quality of life than Russia, China or BRICS countries overall. You will not see expats from G7 countries to BRICS countries but the opposite happens very often, people from BRICS countries pay a lot of money to cross the Mexico-America border or to move in Europe and do unskilled jobs.

How is China different in terms of corruption, being led by mafias and powerful people, about control, oppression and every other properties of totaitarian states?
And when I discuss about those two, I'm referring about energy sources and mining equipment. If Russia can buy cheaper from China, just because of their "friendship", why would they buy from USA? And if they can be a strong alliance, why would they want to do business more with someone that are not their friends at any level right now?
And the mining business has nothing to do with unskilled jobs, btw. It's exactly the opposite

China owned enough hashrate for a 51% attack, but it didn't happen. It is difficult to run a mining business in Russia and the new mining law in 2024 will add to the problems because many miners did not pay all taxes, but only a small part. If the law requires declaring the amount of equipment as in the United States, then in Russia a lot of equipment is imported without declaring it at customs.

Yes, we know. Or at least I know. And I even know that they went back and forth regarding regulations. We are just discussing hipothetically!

[Synchronice]

How is China different in terms of corruption, being led by mafias and powerful people, about control, oppression and every other properties of totaitarian states?
And when I discuss about those two, I'm referring about energy sources and mining equipment. If Russia can buy cheaper from China, just because of their "friendship", why would they buy from USA? And if they can be a strong alliance, why would they want to do business more with someone that are not their friends at any level right now?
And the mining business has nothing to do with unskilled jobs, btw. It's exactly the opposite

First of all, Russia and China are not friends. Countries with ambition to control the world like USA, China, Russia, UK, Germany, can't really befriend with each-other. Collaboration is possible and I agree with you on that but not on friendship. And what I am saying is that why will China sell equipment in discount to Russia when the USA is there to pay more? And Chinese economy is very much linked with the USA, Europe, Japan, South Korea. And bitcoin mining is not a strategic industry for Chinese government, it's a commercial business in that country and in commercial business, the one who pays the most, gets the product. Russians can't outweigh American bidders and Chinese businessmen aren't going to reduce profit to benefit Russians.

So, all I say is that if things go like there is a huge buying competition between the Russia and America, Americans will outweigh Russians and Chinese businessmen will prefer more profit. In bad case, if China says that it's a strategic business and we will only sell miners to Russians and if Americans think that it's also a strategic business, then they'll invest in the development of Asic miners and America has resources to succeed in it but that won't happen, believe me, otherwise they'll turn quantum computers toward bitcoin mining process.

And in the worst case, if China and Russia takeover Bitcoin mining business, there is always a solution, just abandon it and move on different coin, or make a fork and move from PoW to PoS. I think we talk about things that are unlikely to happen and things don't work the way you post. With that logic, we can say that what if China stops iPhone production and produce Russian smartphones, blabla.

[darkv0rt3x]

How is China different in terms of corruption, being led by mafias and powerful people, about control, oppression and every other properties of totaitarian states?
And when I discuss about those two, I'm referring about energy sources and mining equipment. If Russia can buy cheaper from China, just because of their "friendship", why would they buy from USA? And if they can be a strong alliance, why would they want to do business more with someone that are not their friends at any level right now?
And the mining business has nothing to do with unskilled jobs, btw. It's exactly the opposite

First of all, Russia and China are not friends. Countries with ambition to control the world like USA, China, Russia, UK, Germany, can't really befriend with each-other. Collaboration is possible and I agree with you on that but not on friendship. And what I am saying is that why will China sell equipment in discount to Russia when the USA is there to pay more? And Chinese economy is very much linked with the USA, Europe, Japan, South Korea. And bitcoin mining is not a strategic industry for Chinese government, it's a commercial business in that country and in commercial business, the one who pays the most, gets the product. Russians can't outweigh American bidders and Chinese businessmen aren't going to reduce profit to benefit Russians.

So, all I say is that if things go like there is a huge buying competition between the Russia and America, Americans will outweigh Russians and Chinese businessmen will prefer more profit. In bad case, if China says that it's a strategic business and we will only sell miners to Russians and if Americans think that it's also a strategic business, then they'll invest in the development of Asic miners and America has resources to succeed in it but that won't happen, believe me, otherwise they'll turn quantum computers toward bitcoin mining process.

And in the worst case, if China and Russia takeover Bitcoin mining business, there is always a solution, just abandon it and move on different coin, or make a fork and move from PoW to PoS. I think we talk about things that are unlikely to happen and things don't work the way you post. With that logic, we can say that what if China stops iPhone production and produce Russian smartphones, blabla.

Up to some extent, you are right, in terms of democratic societies, where market rules may work. But when it comes to totalitarian states, a simple mindset stops market rules, if they want. If they decide "let's forbiden our ASIC manufacturers to sell equipment to ocident. We will olny make business with Asia and Russia. We don't want to sell our tech to USA and EUA". I believe if they want, they can do it! And Asia and Russia have good conditions to mine, so it could work! I'm just conjecturing of course, but it's a possible vision!

[FP91G]

How is China different in terms of corruption, being led by mafias and powerful people, about control, oppression and every other properties of totaitarian states?
And when I discuss about those two, I'm referring about energy sources and mining equipment. If Russia can buy cheaper from China, just because of their "friendship", why would they buy from USA? And if they can be a strong alliance, why would they want to do business more with someone that are not their friends at any level right now?
And the mining business has nothing to do with unskilled jobs, btw. It's exactly the opposite

First of all, Russia and China are not friends. Countries with ambition to control the world like USA, China, Russia, UK, Germany, can't really befriend with each-other. Collaboration is possible and I agree with you on that but not on friendship. And what I am saying is that why will China sell equipment in discount to Russia when the USA is there to pay more? And Chinese economy is very much linked with the USA, Europe, Japan, South Korea. And bitcoin mining is not a strategic industry for Chinese government, it's a commercial business in that country and in commercial business, the one who pays the most, gets the product. Russians can't outweigh American bidders and Chinese businessmen aren't going to reduce profit to benefit Russians.

So, all I say is that if things go like there is a huge buying competition between the Russia and America, Americans will outweigh Russians and Chinese businessmen will prefer more profit. In bad case, if China says that it's a strategic business and we will only sell miners to Russians and if Americans think that it's also a strategic business, then they'll invest in the development of Asic miners and America has resources to succeed in it but that won't happen, believe me, otherwise they'll turn quantum computers toward bitcoin mining process.

And in the worst case, if China and Russia takeover Bitcoin mining business, there is always a solution, just abandon it and move on different coin, or make a fork and move from PoW to PoS. I think we talk about things that are unlikely to happen and things don't work the way you post. With that logic, we can say that what if China stops iPhone production and produce Russian smartphones, blabla.

I do not agree that Russia will take over bitcoin mining in order to grow to the level of China before the flight of miners. Such investments may not pay off, and the state does not need it if you read the latest news about Russia. And China will sell asics to all customers.

[philipma1957]

How is China different in terms of corruption, being led by mafias and powerful people, about control, oppression and every other properties of totaitarian states?
And when I discuss about those two, I'm referring about energy sources and mining equipment. If Russia can buy cheaper from China, just because of their "friendship", why would they buy from USA? And if they can be a strong alliance, why would they want to do business more with someone that are not their friends at any level right now?
And the mining business has nothing to do with unskilled jobs, btw. It's exactly the opposite

First of all, Russia and China are not friends. Countries with ambition to control the world like USA, China, Russia, UK, Germany, can't really befriend with each-other. Collaboration is possible and I agree with you on that but not on friendship. And what I am saying is that why will China sell equipment in discount to Russia when the USA is there to pay more? And Chinese economy is very much linked with the USA, Europe, Japan, South Korea. And bitcoin mining is not a strategic industry for Chinese government, it's a commercial business in that country and in commercial business, the one who pays the most, gets the product. Russians can't outweigh American bidders and Chinese businessmen aren't going to reduce profit to benefit Russians.

So, all I say is that if things go like there is a huge buying competition between the Russia and America, Americans will outweigh Russians and Chinese businessmen will prefer more profit. In bad case, if China says that it's a strategic business and we will only sell miners to Russians and if Americans think that it's also a strategic business, then they'll invest in the development of Asic miners and America has resources to succeed in it but that won't happen, believe me, otherwise they'll turn quantum computers toward bitcoin mining process.

And in the worst case, if China and Russia takeover Bitcoin mining business, there is always a solution, just abandon it and move on different coin, or make a fork and move from PoW to PoS. I think we talk about things that are unlikely to happen and things don't work the way you post. With that logic, we can say that what if China stops iPhone production and produce Russian smartphones, blabla.

I do not agree that Russia will take over bitcoin mining in order to grow to the level of China before the flight of miners. Such investments may not pay off, and the state does not need it if you read the latest news about Russia. And China will sell asics to all customers.

Hoping you are okay and things calm down a bit.

[KiaKia]

It's crazy how Ukraine is almost ruined and Russia is still standing, that's why they have the time to keep running their mining asylum,  seriously I am not happen about what's going on between this two countries, no hate, just talking facts.

I believe China would be the second on the list if I'm a not wrong? Anyways it doesn't matter who is topping the list, all that matters is Bitcoin becoming a goal for many more countries, maybe in future every single countries will accept Bitcoin finally.

[leepx]

Is there a way to track russian miners payout? I wonder if this will create a larger sum off "illegal" tokens?

[paid2]

Is there a way to track russian miners payout? I wonder if this will create a larger sum off "illegal" tokens?

I don't think that's possible. Maybe the pool operators could, based on the IP addresses of the workers in their pool, assuming that the miners you're interested in don't change their IP. But chances are they've got other things to do and won't be fighting against their own interests / miners. Hashrate is hashrate for them; and they're right about that.

But what would be the point? Isn't the point that everyone should be able to mine BTC according to their own choices? Is the aim of a free-market and decentralized currency to file users of the currency in question according to their nationality? I don't think so.

I think we're a long way from seeing mass "illegal" coins linked to mining in Russia, I think what the authorities are most interested in are those coming out of certain mixers, for example.

[mikeywith]

Are you dead serious? 60% of their land area is unlivable, can Siberia be considered as an advantage?

Yes, cold places are great for mining and data centers, cooling costs a lot of money to build as well as to run.

I don't speak about other advantages that the USA has over Russia, including the economy, universities, businesses like Walmart, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, Twitter, Ford, etc.

Oh please, keep these political arguments out of the mining section, here is a dedicated board that's best suited for all the political garbage , you guys won't even have to start a new topic, the U.S vs Russia topics are all over the place.

I don't think that's possible. Maybe the pool operators could, based on the IP addresses of the workers in their pool, assuming that the miners you're interested in don't change their IP. But chances are they've got other things to do and won't be fighting against their own interests / miners. Hashrate is hashrate for them; and they're right about that.

You would be amazed by how stupid mining pools are, a few years ago, the 3 largest pools revealed the geographical locations of miners to Cambridge University, a stupid move that was very unnecessary.

If we are talking about legally extracting such info from a pool, it would depend on where the pool is located,  a Chinese mining pool doesn't have to answer to the U.S. government, and a U.S mining pool doesn't have to answer to China, besides, it costs next to nothing to mask your IP address, just run a VPN on your router and you are good to go, don't listen to anyone who tells you that it won't work -- it works perfectly, I have been doing that for a very long time without any issue, just don't connect to a VPN that is on the other side of the globe and the pool needs to be close to that VPN location.

For example, if you are in central Africa, connecting to a VPN in Japan and a mining pool in Europe = problems, if you are in the same location, connecting to a VPN in Europe with a pool in Europe = no problems.

[paid2]

You would be amazed by how stupid mining pools are, a few years ago, the 3 largest pools revealed the geographical locations of miners to Cambridge University, a stupid move that was very unnecessary.

Oh indeed this is not a brilliant move...

don't listen to anyone who tells you that it won't work -- it works perfectly

Yes, I'm not at all surprised that it works. It's like those who claim that mining with 4G isn't efficient. In one of my mining places, I've been using an old smartphone for years and I share a connection to a laptop, then a small bash script to make an ethernet bridge to a ethernet switch. It works perfectly and with good ping times, but you'll always find people coming to explain that it's not possible to mine from a 4G hotspot.

Mining isn't very data-intensive, and there are some long-standing legends about it.

[safar1980]

"Now, according to BitRiver, the amount of electricity consumed by miners in the United States exceeded 4 GW, in Russia it is about 2 GW (including the volume of industrial mining, which, according to the company, exceeded 1.2 GW). The Russian industry is catching up with the American one at an accelerated pace, BitRiver notes.

Since mid-April 2023, the demand for mining services in Russia from large customers from China has been growing noticeably. In addition, since the beginning of the year, an increase in demand for hosting equipment for cryptocurrency mining has been observed by large businesses from Russia, the CIS, the Arab world, China, India and other friendly countries."

Read more on RBC:
https://www.rbc.ru/crypto/news/649e87539a79471e633478a1?

[FP91G]

don't listen to anyone who tells you that it won't work -- it works perfectly

Yes, I'm not at all surprised that it works. It's like those who claim that mining with 4G isn't efficient. In one of my mining places, I've been using an old smartphone for years and I share a connection to a laptop, then a small bash script to make an ethernet bridge to a ethernet switch. It works perfectly and with good ping times, but you'll always find people coming to explain that it's not possible to mine from a 4G hotspot.

Mining isn't very data-intensive, and there are some long-standing legends about it.

My 4G modem works much worse in the summer and loses connection more often. In the summer, a lot of people relax in the village, and the more Internet users, the worse the connection and the more often the miners disconnect. In winter, the 4G modem gives good speed and stability, although sometimes there are shutdowns. You depend on the number of people who use the same base station.

[mikeywith]

You depend on the number of people who use the same base station.

The number of users should not affect the stabelity of 4g connection if the provider is near modest, of course, if they account for 50 users and end up having 100 users the service will be affected, so it all depends on the service provider and how they size thier infrastructure.

One downside of using 4g is the cost, almost all packages have limited qouta، if you run a large farm you will be spending a lot on internet alone, the only solution for that would be using a mining proxy, in fact, using a mining proxy will also solve a lot of issues that you encounter from bad internet services.

[paid2]

My 4G modem works much worse in the summer and loses connection more often. In the summer, a lot of people relax in the village, and the more Internet users, the worse the connection and the more often the miners disconnect. In winter, the 4G modem gives good speed and stability, although sometimes there are shutdowns. You depend on the number of people who use the same base station.

To be honest, for now I am satisfied with this solution. The stability is perfect, and so is the quality of the connection, so I have nothing to complain about. I'm lucky that the cost is minimal, around 12 usd per month for unlimited data. I was worried at first when I read somewhere on the Internet that in summer or on religious holidays the network would be congested, but this has never been the case so far. Maybe it's because I'm in the middle of nowhere and the place in question is a village with fewer than 100 inhabitants 

One downside of using 4g is the cost, almost all packages have limited qouta، if you run a large farm you will be spending a lot on internet alone, the only solution for that would be using a mining proxy, in fact, using a mining proxy will also solve a lot of issues that you encounter from bad internet services.

A mining proxy? What would be the concrete difference with a VPN as a miner?

[mikeywith]

A mining proxy? What would be the concrete difference with a VPN as a miner?

Two unrelated things, to say the least, a mining proxy is a piece of software that acts as a local mining pool for the mining gears and acts as a single miner for the actual mining pool.

Basically, it's a piece of software that runs on Windows for example, and it has the following parameters that you need to enter.

- Pool URL (Viabtc, Kano, or whatever pool you use)
- Worker (worker for the same pool above)
- Pass (password for the same pool above)
- Port (for your miners to connect to).

And then when it's up and running, it will connect to the mining pool, the pool will treat it as an actual miner, and then on your actual miner's config page instead of entering the actual pool you use, the data will be like so

-Pool URL (The IP address of the machine that runs the mining proxy software, an example would be 192.168.1.2:9999)
-Worker (can be anything you chose)
-Pass (depends but usually x)

On the proxy status page, you will be able to see all your miners' shares as if it was a mining pool, on the pool, you will only see 1 miner which is whatever worker you set on the proxy, what is going to happen is your miners combined at the proxy will be submitting way too many shares, the pool's software will treat it as it's one giant super miner and will have to raise share difficulty to keep up a good pace.

Example: you have 50* S9, the pool wants you to be able to submit 10 shares per minute, so you will be submitting 500 shares per minute, let's say that will be 50 MB per minute.

When using a proxy, your miner could still submit 500 shares to the proxy, but the proxy will only submit 10 shares per minute to the actual pool (those 10 shares at current difficulty are worth exactly as much as those 500 shares at the lower difficulty), so now your network traffic on the WAN size is only 1MB per minute, so 50 miners connecting via a mining proxy will only consume as much data as a single miner.

When you have a somewhat pretty slow connection, connecting many miners will start to cause issues, reducing the number of connections to the pool to just 1 always helps, in fact, a mining proxy is a must when you go past a certain number of miners, it would be a nightmare having to route thousands of miners without a mining proxy.

[paid2]

Example: you have 50* S9, the pool wants you to be able to submit 10 shares per minute, so you will be submitting 500 shares per minute, let's say that will be 50 MB per minute.

When using a proxy, your miner could still submit 500 shares to the proxy, but the proxy will only submit 10 shares per minute to the actual pool (those 10 shares at current difficulty are worth exactly as much as those 500 shares at the lower difficulty), so now your network traffic on the WAN size is only 1MB per minute, so 50 miners connecting via a mining proxy will only consume as much data as a single miner.

When you have a somewhat pretty slow connection, connecting many miners will start to cause issues, reducing the number of connections to the pool to just 1 always helps, in fact, a mining proxy is a must when you go past a certain number of miners, it would be a nightmare having to route thousands of miners without a mining proxy.

Thank you very much for your answer ; it's very interesting! I'm going to experiment this very soon as I think it could help me a lot. Until now I've always operated in the classic way, 1 ASIC = 1 worker independent of the others, I wasn't aware of all that.  I think it could have a good impact in terms of network utilization.