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Author Topic: Wagering requirements for withdraw  (Read 4900 times)
ethereumhunter
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June 03, 2023, 06:18:55 AM
 #421

Casinos can always work well to suppress bonus manipulation figures and even casinos will give strict sanctions to be banned or even freeze all balances that are owned so we don't do things like that to avoid any problems.
Usually some betting requirements for withdrawal are only owned by a few casinos and not all casinos provide these requirements only to withdraw a certain amount of money except for the proceeds from the bonus that the casino gives.
Moreover, in the FAQ we can read whatever we want to know so we can avoid things that we find burdensome and difficult.
That is why those who want to abuse bonuses from casinos should think again that, in the end, the casinos will still know about it and freeze all their balances and even the casinos can close their accounts easily. And when that happens, they are also the ones who will lose because they can't use or even register at the casino anymore.

Wagering requirements for withdrawal usually apply in certain events so we don't need to try everything especially if we feel it will be difficult to collect the bonus. And we should read the FAQ before we decide and ask the support service if we still don't understand.

Isn't this one of the reasons why they will mount stage to paint a casino red all in the name of they have been restricted to perform some certain functions on the casinos, the next thing you discover is a scam accusation on such gambling platform, most of the challenges we encounters with the gambling platforms were as a result of our careless attitude towards reading about them in knowing what they want and dislike.
Those who don't want to take the time to read all the rules in the casino will lose because when they want to withdraw their money, they will find it difficult because of their ignorance so they will be disappointed with the casino even though it was because of their own mistakes that they didn't want to read the rules. If only they read the terms and conditions and knew there were other conditions, they certainly won't encounter any difficulties. Even if they want to withdraw the money, they can do it easily.

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bangjoe
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June 03, 2023, 10:00:25 AM
 #422

Every casinos has it own requirements and many gamblers do not know this or maybe pay less attention to this aspect, some of this requirements were clearly stated in their TOS, nothing can change it because they put them there on purpose, gamblers always made a complain rue to their non compliance to these regulations and terms, ones you discover you can't cope anymore using a casino, you're free to go and try out others.
What is certain is that gamblers are too lazy to read the TOS in the casino. Hence, they forget what is allowed and what is not allowed so that when they accidentally make a mistake, they think it is permitted by the casino when the mistake is written on it. The casino. Casinos can change the rules easily but must let the users know so they won't be disappointed. And regarding the betting requirements before withdrawing the money, it already exists in the casino, especially if a gambler manages to win an event or promotion.
TOS or terms and conditions in every casino service must be really read by everyone who wants to gamble on a gambling platform or casino, especially if for someone who likes to use large funds in gambling, the possibility of getting a large return must be there, and if Not reading the rules emphasized by the provider, the detrimental thing will definitely approach it, with a quotation sign "literacy" must be increased to keep something unwanted.
Even if there are regulations that are changed, because it seems that there is always a policy update, I strongly agree that the casino must provide notification to each customer either via email or in the casino discussion group so that there is no miss communication between customers and providers.
Yes, it is usually listed, don't forget to always read because every casino has a different policy about withdrawals.

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Doan9269
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June 03, 2023, 10:07:25 AM
 #423

Isn't this one of the reasons why they will mount stage to paint a casino red all in the name of they have been restricted to perform some certain functions on the casinos, the next thing you discover is a scam accusation on such gambling platform, most of the challenges we encounters with the gambling platforms were as a result of our careless attitude towards reading about them in knowing what they want and dislike.
Those who don't want to take the time to read all the rules in the casino will lose because when they want to withdraw their money, they will find it difficult because of their ignorance so they will be disappointed with the casino even though it was because of their own mistakes that they didn't want to read the rules. If only they read the terms and conditions and knew there were other conditions, they certainly won't encounter any difficulties. Even if they want to withdraw the money, they can do it easily.

A good and polite gambler should know that using a particular casino comes with it own requirements which they would have clearly stated, but because we think they are not as effective as they had thought gives us the impression to overlooked them in and go on our way, they will also remain mute not until the time we will need their service comes, then they will remind us of what we have rone in the past out of negligence, most withdrawal cases are things that erupted from the gamblers end either through abuse or by not paying attention.

dwyane36
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June 03, 2023, 02:18:14 PM
 #424

TOS or terms and conditions in every casino service must be really read by everyone who wants to gamble on a gambling platform or casino, especially if for someone who likes to use large funds in gambling, the possibility of getting a large return must be there, and if Not reading the rules emphasized by the provider, the detrimental thing will definitely approach it, with a quotation sign "literacy" must be increased to keep something unwanted.
Even if there are regulations that are changed, because it seems that there is always a policy update, I strongly agree that the casino must provide notification to each customer either via email or in the casino discussion group so that there is no miss communication between customers and providers.
Yes, it is usually listed, don't forget to always read because every casino has a different policy about withdrawals.

Of course, a user needs to know all the rules and nuances before making a deposit. But let's be honest, most users still neglect it because they come to gambling sites for fun, not to spend their time reading boring rules. It seems to me that many withdrawal misunderstandings would be avoided if gambling platforms warned about any restrictions directly in the deposit window.

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Jody.Drummer
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June 03, 2023, 03:00:19 PM
 #425

TOS or terms and conditions in every casino service must be really read by everyone who wants to gamble on a gambling platform or casino, especially if for someone who likes to use large funds in gambling, the possibility of getting a large return must be there, and if Not reading the rules emphasized by the provider, the detrimental thing will definitely approach it, with a quotation sign "literacy" must be increased to keep something unwanted.
Even if there are regulations that are changed, because it seems that there is always a policy update, I strongly agree that the casino must provide notification to each customer either via email or in the casino discussion group so that there is no miss communication between customers and providers.
Yes, it is usually listed, don't forget to always read because every casino has a different policy about withdrawals.

Of course, a user needs to know all the rules and nuances before making a deposit. But let's be honest, most users still neglect it because they come to gambling sites for fun, not to spend their time reading boring rules. It seems to me that many withdrawal misunderstandings would be avoided if gambling platforms warned about any restrictions directly in the deposit window.
Many users ignore it because they are lazy to read the terms and conditions which really take time to finish reading. But the problem is when they ignore these things later when they have difficulty making withdrawals, for example, always blaming the casino. They say the casino is not transparent in making policies. In fact, all of that will be in the terms and conditions if they read it first.
I say this for gambling platforms that really have high trust and not for gambling platforms that have intended to deceive users from the start.

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Solosanz
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June 03, 2023, 03:07:02 PM
 #426

Many users ignore it because they are lazy to read the terms and conditions which really take time to finish reading. But the problem is when they ignore these things later when they have difficulty making withdrawals, for example, always blaming the casino. They say the casino is not transparent in making policies. In fact, all of that will be in the terms and conditions if they read it first.
I say this for gambling platforms that really have high trust and not for gambling platforms that have intended to deceive users from the start.
Not all casinos will show their minimum wager especially the welcome bonus rules where they have a hidden rule about only certain game are counted the wager requirement, while the other games only contribute half or nothing.

The casino's terms is really long, no one will want to read the whole rules, most of people only care about KYC, blacklisted countries, multiple accounts, VPN and other things, they wouldn't aware about wager requirement, dormant account fee and other unpopular controversial rule.

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Fredomago
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June 03, 2023, 10:51:16 PM
 #427

TOS or terms and conditions in every casino service must be really read by everyone who wants to gamble on a gambling platform or casino, especially if for someone who likes to use large funds in gambling, the possibility of getting a large return must be there, and if Not reading the rules emphasized by the provider, the detrimental thing will definitely approach it, with a quotation sign "literacy" must be increased to keep something unwanted.
Even if there are regulations that are changed, because it seems that there is always a policy update, I strongly agree that the casino must provide notification to each customer either via email or in the casino discussion group so that there is no miss communication between customers and providers.
Yes, it is usually listed, don't forget to always read because every casino has a different policy about withdrawals.

Of course, a user needs to know all the rules and nuances before making a deposit. But let's be honest, most users still neglect it because they come to gambling sites for fun, not to spend their time reading boring rules. It seems to me that many withdrawal misunderstandings would be avoided if gambling platforms warned about any restrictions directly in the deposit window.
Many users ignore it because they are lazy to read the terms and conditions which really take time to finish reading. But the problem is when they ignore these things later when they have difficulty making withdrawals, for example, always blaming the casino. They say the casino is not transparent in making policies. In fact, all of that will be in the terms and conditions if they read it first.
I say this for gambling platforms that really have high trust and not for gambling platforms that have intended to deceive users from the start.

With established gambling site, they all written clearly as they wanted to make sure that they will continue to have a good relationship with their clients, and most of the time if there's a problem they are willing to work it out to make sure that the problem will be address properly, with the users agreement it will be easier from both sides to prove the case to resolve the issue.

But, just the same, not all have a clear users and agreement so it's really needed to take some time to read and check what are the rules especially in terms of wagering requirements.

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June 04, 2023, 05:50:45 AM
 #428

TOS or terms and conditions in every casino service must be really read by everyone who wants to gamble on a gambling platform or casino, especially if for someone who likes to use large funds in gambling, the possibility of getting a large return must be there, and if Not reading the rules emphasized by the provider, the detrimental thing will definitely approach it, with a quotation sign "literacy" must be increased to keep something unwanted.
Even if there are regulations that are changed, because it seems that there is always a policy update, I strongly agree that the casino must provide notification to each customer either via email or in the casino discussion group so that there is no miss communication between customers and providers.
Yes, it is usually listed, don't forget to always read because every casino has a different policy about withdrawals.
Casinos may provide updates about the changed rules via email or other means so that all members are aware if there are changes to the rules. This is to clear up misunderstandings between casinos and players; no player will complain if the rules have changed. But it could be that some players don't know about the update, so it makes them feel cheated even though it's not like that.

And by ensuring we understand the rules or those that have been changed, we won't accidentally break them because we must be careful when playing gambling. This will also apply to all players. And we must always remember that the rules at every casino will not be the same because they adjust to the conditions and situations of each casino.

A good and polite gambler should know that using a particular casino comes with it own requirements which they would have clearly stated, but because we think they are not as effective as they had thought gives us the impression to overlooked them in and go on our way, they will also remain mute not until the time we will need their service comes, then they will remind us of what we have rone in the past out of negligence, most withdrawal cases are things that erupted from the gamblers end either through abuse or by not paying attention.
In this case, we have to be more active to find out if there has been a change in the rules at the casino so that we won't get into any trouble later. Apart from that, we can also be calm in playing gambling because we have ensured that we are still on the right track and safe. An active casino will always notify its players if something related to the casino exists.

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June 04, 2023, 06:58:46 AM
 #429

Casinos can always work well to suppress bonus manipulation figures and even casinos will give strict sanctions to be banned or even freeze all balances that are owned so we don't do things like that to avoid any problems.
Usually some betting requirements for withdrawal are only owned by a few casinos and not all casinos provide these requirements only to withdraw a certain amount of money except for the proceeds from the bonus that the casino gives.
Moreover, in the FAQ we can read whatever we want to know so we can avoid things that we find burdensome and difficult.
That is why those who want to abuse bonuses from casinos should think again that, in the end, the casinos will still know about it and freeze all their balances and even the casinos can close their accounts easily. And when that happens, they are also the ones who will lose because they can't use or even register at the casino anymore.

Wagering requirements for withdrawal usually apply in certain events so we don't need to try everything especially if we feel it will be difficult to collect the bonus. And we should read the FAQ before we decide and ask the support service if we still don't understand.
Unfortunately they don't think about it because they think that in the gambling industry there are lots of casinos that they can take advantage of.
When they are banned at one casino there are still other casinos that can be used.
This is why fraudulent acts of bonus abuse occur all the time at any casino.

It's true that I myself have several times received bonuses with a nominal value of tens of USDT but must meet the betting and deposit requirements to be able to withdraw the proceeds from the bonus.
If it feels like it's worth it, I'll do it happily, but unfortunately it's always higher than what I get, so to pull it off, I think many times first.
The FAQ always provides what we need such as withdrawal conditions or other things.

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June 04, 2023, 07:47:38 AM
 #430

But what happens on the second deposit? Are able to withdraw the money from those miraculous casinos who has this stupid rule of wagering on normal deposits?

If this is applicable to all the deposits then I’m sure that’s a big scam casino. Every time you deposit you will have to go through that rigorous wagering requirement of 50x and that’s fishy and funny.

If you think the casino is elite one (I doubt it) then just deposit $1 wager it until 50x on small games like crash or something and get yourself activated. But obviously there will be some restrictions on how much minimum you could deposit. Better: Switch the casino.
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June 04, 2023, 10:52:01 AM
 #431

What is certain is that gamblers are too lazy to read the TOS in the casino. Hence, they forget what is allowed and what is not allowed so that when they accidentally make a mistake, they think it is permitted by the casino when the mistake is written on it. The casino. Casinos can change the rules easily but must let the users know so they won't be disappointed. And regarding the betting requirements before withdrawing the money, it already exists in the casino, especially if a gambler manages to win an event or promotion.
Isn't this one of the reasons why they will mount stage to paint a casino red all in the name of they have been restricted to perform some certain functions on the casinos, the next thing you discover is a scam accusation on such gambling platform, most of the challenges we encounters with the gambling platforms were as a result of our careless attitude towards reading about them in knowing what they want and dislike.
That's pretty much it, people are too lazy to read the terms and conditions but they become too active when they face a problem and want to accuse the casino for it, I've heard so many people say that terms and conditions are very long and lengthy and we just don't feel like reading them because they are boring and time-consuming, etc. They simply ignore the fact that they are also important.

The first step one should do when signing up on a gambling platform is to read the terms and conditions so that they understand the dos and don'ts of the platform and refrain from doing anything that might put them in trouble.
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June 04, 2023, 04:12:24 PM
 #432

I really hate it when casinos pull stunts like these even though of course, this is something that is stated in their ToS. It’s supposed to be an unspoken rule that you are to be given the opportunity to withdraw your assets from them anytime you want. Because there’s no real incentive in these wagering requirements other than to retain the customer’s funds to keep the casino from working as lazy as possible and not offering secure remunerations for their players, which are things that need no further explanation, are telltale signs that the casino you’re dealing with is a big sham.

Casinos should allow you to withdraw without requiring you to put on a wager. You already played in their house for god’s sakes. It’s mad insulting at this point to disallow gamblers from getting their money nack or their winnings over petty requirements.
I also thought like this but we have to know that they have rules for us to respect and respect, if you don't like the rules you should find another casino and leave the one you don't like, of course this is an easy way to support your goals, after all we have to know that it is possible for casinos to implement these rules so that users who make deposits and then withdraw without playing are like people who are laundering money. but I also don't agree with having to gamble with high and hard-to-reach wagered amounts.

I might agree with you but there are things that must be appreciated and respected from the decision of the casino itself, if we don't really like it just leave it, I'm more interested in playing in a big casino, usually complicated rules exist in small casinos.

Each casino has its own rules and they have their regulations for the bonuses themselves, they are different, they differ a lot because they have different ways of dealing with the way they play, if in a small casino it has some of the limitations that we do not like, I agree I agree that they have to look for other casinos, in the case of duelbits I feel comfortable, they have the games that I like, there is no problem with the bonuses, with the withdrawals, I am very demanding with the withdrawals, I like that they occur when I want and that there is no need to be sending messages to support for my payment, I have no problems here , that's why I Recommend it.
It is normal that all casino sites will have their own rules and regulations.  But their regulation should be such that it is attractive to the gamblers and that the gamblers find it fair.  Otherwise, the site will not be able to survive in such a competitive market. as op said the site he used requirement high wagering which may not seem fair to gamblers. In this case they will lose more gamblers from their site instead of gaining new gamblers. I don't know what their strategy is basically but it doesn't seem fair to me

I also think the same as you, the regulations must be complied with to the letter but if it is seen that it affects the players it is something that should not be put as a priority because the players always look for the ease of everything, first to play, what the casino is not complicated and secondly that the casino offers quite good and usable bonuses, which attracts them, but I have seen that one of the things that players are put off is the KYC requirement and that is something that cannot be allowed, everything except that the players leave, so these types of things are the ones that have to be Avoided, everything has to have a balance.


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June 04, 2023, 04:22:28 PM
 #433

I recently discovered that I signed up for a casino without thoroughly reading its terms and conditions agreement. But of course this was entirely my fault even that I am still bothered by the withdrawal requirements on deposits. It is well known that deposit bonuses or any bonus offered by a casino will have wagering requirements that goes to x50 or more. What truly concerns me is the 5X wagering requirement on normal deposits without any bonus in order to withdraw the initial deposit or winnings.
To clarify things better here is an example : if you were to deposit $1000 and win $200 in your first few games then you wouldnt be able to withdraw your winnings or even your deposits without wagering at least $5000. This means that 80% of the time, you would lose your money before reaching the required amount.
In my opinion this term is unfair. I am not attacking any specific casino, but I do believe that if users were aware of these requirements they would be less likely to deposit their money in such casinos since there are other casinos without such stringent requirements.

There are many shady "casino's" out that aim to lure people in, often using super size welcome bonuses with extreme terms that are almost impossible to achieve like you stated. They can offer a 1000 dollar new user bonus but require you to wager it a thousand times to unlock it - clearly you will lose any potential withdrawal in that time. You're better off being either a) very clear on the welcome bonus terms, as they are often open about them but few people read the detail or b) sticking with the biggest existing casino's you can find many places, including here.


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qwertyup23
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June 04, 2023, 04:24:00 PM
 #434

TOS or terms and conditions in every casino service must be really read by everyone who wants to gamble on a gambling platform or casino, especially if for someone who likes to use large funds in gambling, the possibility of getting a large return must be there, and if Not reading the rules emphasized by the provider, the detrimental thing will definitely approach it, with a quotation sign "literacy" must be increased to keep something unwanted.
Even if there are regulations that are changed, because it seems that there is always a policy update, I strongly agree that the casino must provide notification to each customer either via email or in the casino discussion group so that there is no miss communication between customers and providers.
Yes, it is usually listed, don't forget to always read because every casino has a different policy about withdrawals.

Of course, a user needs to know all the rules and nuances before making a deposit. But let's be honest, most users still neglect it because they come to gambling sites for fun, not to spend their time reading boring rules. It seems to me that many withdrawal misunderstandings would be avoided if gambling platforms warned about any restrictions directly in the deposit window.

ToS should be read and understood but some gambling companies phrase their ToS in a very vague and boring manner. Like the ToS is full of one paragraphs without any spacing that is very difficult to read. Though that may be the case, agreeing with their ToS without even reading it means that it has constructive notice to everyone, as such, when one violates a provision, you can be held accountable.

The problem with some ToS is that mostly, it is subject to change without any given notice. While gambling companies have such privilege and prerogative, it may be subject to abuse as they can stipulate anything under the sun.

That is why, if you are not going to read the ToS of a certain gambling website, might as well invest your funds in a reputable and well-known casino for better security at the end.
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June 04, 2023, 06:31:13 PM
 #435

TOS or terms and conditions in every casino service must be really read by everyone who wants to gamble on a gambling platform or casino, especially if for someone who likes to use large funds in gambling, the possibility of getting a large return must be there, and if Not reading the rules emphasized by the provider, the detrimental thing will definitely approach it, with a quotation sign "literacy" must be increased to keep something unwanted.
Even if there are regulations that are changed, because it seems that there is always a policy update, I strongly agree that the casino must provide notification to each customer either via email or in the casino discussion group so that there is no miss communication between customers and providers.
Yes, it is usually listed, don't forget to always read because every casino has a different policy about withdrawals.

Of course, a user needs to know all the rules and nuances before making a deposit. But let's be honest, most users still neglect it because they come to gambling sites for fun, not to spend their time reading boring rules. It seems to me that many withdrawal misunderstandings would be avoided if gambling platforms warned about any restrictions directly in the deposit window.
Yes you are right but unfortunately most of the casinos will not add such feature in the deposit window.
I don't know what the cause is, for sure it is casino policy not to notify customers in any way because everything is already in the TOS that we can read.
Actually it's not difficult when you want to make a deposit, just open the TOS and read something that we are looking for according to our needs, for example regarding deposits and withdrawals.
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June 04, 2023, 08:21:35 PM
 #436

Every casinos has it own requirements and many gamblers do not know this or maybe pay less attention to this aspect, some of this requirements were clearly stated in their TOS, nothing can change it because they put them there on purpose, gamblers always made a complain rue to their non compliance to these regulations and terms, ones you discover you can't cope anymore using a casino, you're free to go and try out others.
What is certain is that gamblers are too lazy to read the TOS in the casino. Hence, they forget what is allowed and what is not allowed so that when they accidentally make a mistake, they think it is permitted by the casino when the mistake is written on it. The casino. Casinos can change the rules easily but must let the users know so they won't be disappointed. And regarding the betting requirements before withdrawing the money, it already exists in the casino, especially if a gambler manages to win an event or promotion.
TOS or terms and conditions in every casino service must be really read by everyone who wants to gamble on a gambling platform or casino, especially if for someone who likes to use large funds in gambling, the possibility of getting a large return must be there, and if Not reading the rules emphasized by the provider, the detrimental thing will definitely approach it, with a quotation sign "literacy" must be increased to keep something unwanted.
Even if there are regulations that are changed, because it seems that there is always a policy update, I strongly agree that the casino must provide notification to each customer either via email or in the casino discussion group so that there is no miss communication between customers and providers.
Yes, it is usually listed, don't forget to always read because every casino has a different policy about withdrawals.
The 'Terms of Service', or the TOS as the cool kids say, often get the cold shoulder, right? Blame it on the adrenaline rush or the impatience to jump into the gameplay. But here's the thing - disregarding the TOS can lead to a nasty surprise, especially when there's a lot on the line. Reading the TOS is more than just a defensive move - it's a secret weapon. It can make you privy to the game's inner workings and maybe even a trick or two. The player who gets cozy with the rules is like a chess player thinking five moves ahead - they're in a better position to level up.

Casinos keep revamping their rules like a restless fashionista. That's why it's essential for them to communicate these changes as clearly as a 4K resolution game trailer. The money-withdrawal policies? They're as varied as the threads on a gaming subreddit and often come with fine print that's easy to miss. Cranking up the 'TOS literacy' could amp up your gameplay and maybe even skyrocket your success rate.

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June 04, 2023, 08:47:03 PM
 #437

What truly concerns me is the 5X wagering requirement on normal deposits without any bonus in order to withdraw the initial deposit or winnings.
That's stealing in my opinion. I am okay to have 1x wager requirement without having a condition of any minimum odd of the bets but 5x is too much. Which gambling site was it?

Normally as far as I know there are 0.5x wagering requirements for gamblers so that they do not use it as a mixer to break trace of their coins. But some highly reputed gambling website has not wagering requirement for a deposit which does not have anything but just to place bet.

Casinos keep revamping their rules like a restless fashionista. That's why it's essential for them to communicate these changes as clearly as a 4K resolution game trailer. The money-withdrawal policies? They're as varied as the threads on a gaming subreddit and often come with fine print that's easy to miss. Cranking up the 'TOS literacy' could amp up your gameplay and maybe even skyrocket your success rate.
I never received an email from a gambling site saying we changed our policy and please read it again before using our product/service again.

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June 04, 2023, 10:24:23 PM
 #438

...
Before signing up on a casino or any other online service you will have to tick a box which says "I have read and agree to the terms and conditions..". If you can't read the ToS or you didn't understand them then simply find another casino/service which has more clear and readable rules. If you tick that box then in case of any misunderstanding, it's your fault and can't blame the casino.
The service might have done this in purpose but the customers also bears part of the responsibility for agreeing to the terms without understanding them.

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June 04, 2023, 10:27:54 PM
 #439

But, just the same, not all have a clear users and agreement so it's really needed to take some time to read and check what are the rules especially in terms of wagering requirements.
Yup, this is so true because we do see some gamblers rant about such policies because they haven't read it when they signed up for that casino. The clarity of rules is important if you're the type of gambler that does a lot of deposits and withdrawals at most times.
It's normal to know the requirements upon withdrawal including the wagering requirements because that's what we want to secure. A secured and assured way that we will be able to withdraw our winnings when the time has come so that it won't be taken back to us as we gamble again if we don't withdraw it asap.


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June 04, 2023, 10:30:38 PM
 #440

One thing regarding the wagering requirements, is that most of us have fallen for not reading very high wagering requirements,in fact when I land on one that says 10x I already know that I will not get anything from there, because it is obvious I'm not going to get there, if nothing else, sometimes with 1x you can lose everything, now 10x no matter how much patience you have or something is achievable, but it has to be someone with a demonstration of Faith and a lot of Experience , in Addition to having a lot of Good luck , it's the only way I can see that things can happen,  otherwise I don't think so, as I've seen 30x, 50x, 100x requirements, things that are not within my reach.

You were lucky to have detected that earlier and that is because of your prior knowledge of what the negative impact the wagering requirements are for the gambler against the casino and also failed to read the terms and conditions of the casino and to know what their wagering requirement will be, any wagering requirements that is above 1x then it a pilot that will fly the gambler to many lose eventually.

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