Does anyone notice the "investment cost" ?

[Marcellin9]

One question bothers me a long time and I am not sure if there is anyone that thinks about this before. Let's say you invested $10K in Bitcoin when the price was $20K,  and some time later the price pumped to $40K, which means the initial capital is now worth $20K. For some reason, you need cash urgently so you decide to sell the Bitcoin you own for cash. You do it and now you have that $20K on hand.

In this process of trading, your profit is $10K for sure, regardless of whether the Bitcoin price will pump or dump. If you won't invest again, this beautiful success should be what you are proud of. However, 99% of us will choose to buy again and hope for the next success. However, now you buy at $40K and the price may drop to a new low below $20K later, and the profit you gained from last trading may be eaten up gradually by the market dump.

Connect the two dots(two extreme conditions) and draw a curve, high chances are that at last, your profits from all investments may not be that much, at least much less than what you expected when you first gained that $10K. Therefore, all the occasional profits between investments may become fixed or variable costs that these investment must pay.

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

[1715059746]

1715059746

[1715059746]

1715059746

[un_rank]

What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ?

I think they can be avoided if you do not sell at intervals. You can only make a profit or suffer a loss when you sell, so by simply hodling you stand a good chance of making a profit, particularly with an asset like bitcoin.

If the hypothetical investor had only invested $10k of spare money and did not need to sell when the value increased by 100%, they would still hold their $20k at the time. Even if the price drops at intervals, bitcoin has shown to always rise in the long run, so after another bull run or two, the value of 1BTC could be as high as $100k, and they would have a total of $50k, with a profit of $40,000 from their initial investment.

Selling and buying back at intervals can work when you try to sell at the top and buy back at the bottom, but does not come with guarantees.

- Jay -

[avikz]

That's quite normal! That's the story of evey trader regardless of whether crypto is being traded or stocks. That's why every trader has do depend on the P&L report that they receive from their broker. This P&L reports includes all trades they make and calculate a consolidated profit or loss. That's how it is everywhere and it's quite logical. I am not sure what's so difficult here!

Even when we file our taxes, we have to post a consolidated income report. That's exactly how you can calculate your trades in intervals and determine how much you are making. Simple!

[Marcellin9]

That's quite normal! That's the story of evey trader regardless of whether crypto is being traded or stocks. That's why every trader has do depend on the P&L report that they receive from their broker. This P&L reports includes all trades they make and calculate a consolidated profit or loss. That's how it is everywhere and it's quite logical. I am not sure what's so difficult here!

Even when we file our taxes, we have to post a consolidated income report. That's exactly how you can calculate your trades in intervals and determine how much you are making. Simple!

Knowing and doing are quite different. In reality, including on this forum, there are so many people who only emphasize the advantages and good sides of investment but ignore the potential costs(if not risks). I am hoping this can remind people of being realistic ? No big deal.

What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ?

I think they can be avoided if you do not sell at intervals. You can only make a profit or suffer a loss when you sell, so by simply hodling you stand a good chance of making a profit, particularly with an asset like bitcoin.

If the hypothetical investor had only invested $10k of spare money and did not need to sell when the value increased by 100%, they would still hold their $20k at the time. Even if the price drops at intervals, bitcoin has shown to always rise in the long run, so after another bull run or two, the value of 1BTC could be as high as $100k, and they would have a total of $50k, with a profit of $40,000 from their initial investment.

Selling and buying back at intervals can work when you try to sell at the top and buy back at the bottom, but does not come with guarantees.

- Jay -

If you invested $10K and did not sell and waited untial the Bitcoin price reached $100K, what is the point of making profit ? That would only mean profits on paper. You have to cash it to guarantee the real gains. "Selling and buying back at intervals can work when you try to sell at the top and buy back at the bottom, but does not come with guarantees.", actually I am not talking about guarantees and just try to generalize something useful from millions of investors' experiences. Thanks.

[Cryptomiles1]

I think there's a line you are missing, if someone buys bitcoin at 20k and then price move to 40k that means is 20k profits you have made from the investment. Although most people don't like altering their investment, some may decides to invest for longer time between the range of 1 year to 4 years while otherwise may chooses to invest from 1 month to 1 years or thereabout but it solely depends on individuals. Whomever that plays such game then he is smart enough to make profit out of his investment, reasoning are different so its to investment some other may think immediately they sells off the price might triple of what they sold by this action they may decides to hodl.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

If you won't invest again, this beautiful success should be what you are proud of. However, 99% of us will choose to buy again and hope for the next success. However, now you buy at $40K and the price may drop to a new low below $20K later, and the profit you gained from last trading may be eaten up gradually by the market dump.

OP, I'm understanding your hypothetical scenario but what I'm not getting is what you're getting at with your question and with statements like the above.

You could ask an infinite number of "what if...?" questions regarding the market, and you'll get infinity+1 number of answers if you start a thread about them--nobody can tell you what the right thing to do in any trading circumstance, because the definition of "right" can vary from trader to trader based on any number of factors.  It sounds like you don't have a lot of experience with markets and trading, am I right?  Well, you're in for a fun ride, but it's one with a very harsh and unforgiving driving instructor, i.e., learning from mistakes.  And you will make them.  If anybody says they've never screwed up a trade, they're lying.

Good luck.

[livingfree]

It's reasonable and make sense to think about that if you're someone not going to go ahead and be long term on trading, buying and selling bitcoin.

There's this worry that someone has to think about and if that's the plan he got on his mind. But to say the least, this is essential in every market and not just on bitcoin.

You go and take profits and if you want to go back again on the market, you can do it freely anytime. What's important is that, you've taken a profit at first and you're able to experience that and it's all up to you whether you want to be part of this very volatile market again and wanna take the risk.

[Fortify]

One question bothers me a long time and I am not sure if there is anyone that thinks about this before. Let's say you invested $10K in Bitcoin when the price was $20K,  and some time later the price pumped to $40K, which means the initial capital is now worth $20K. For some reason, you need cash urgently so you decide to sell the Bitcoin you own for cash. You do it and now you have that $20K on hand.

In this process of trading, your profit is $10K for sure, regardless of whether the Bitcoin price will pump or dump. If you won't invest again, this beautiful success should be what you are proud of. However, 99% of us will choose to buy again and hope for the next success. However, now you buy at $40K and the price may drop to a new low below $20K later, and the profit you gained from last trading may be eaten up gradually by the market dump.

Connect the two dots(two extreme conditions) and draw a curve, high chances are that at last, your profits from all investments may not be that much, at least much less than what you expected when you first gained that $10K. Therefore, all the occasional profits between investments may become fixed or variable costs that these investment must pay.

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

It's definitely a blindspot that many people have when they come to determining how successful they are at trading and it's a similar effect to what we see with gamblers. There is a tendency to hone in on the few large wins, but overlook the many small losses which often wear down your investments. It is only when you completely cash out that you can judge your profitability, in the scenario you've highlighted, no profit was made by the trader at all - they probably also lost money because the value of what they invested was being inflated away in fiat terms during that timeframe as well. These sort of assets are also not producing anything of value, so you don't naturally get an income from dividends or profit reinvestment like you would with a share of a company.

[goldkingcoiner]

One question bothers me a long time and I am not sure if there is anyone that thinks about this before. Let's say you invested $10K in Bitcoin when the price was $20K,  and some time later the price pumped to $40K, which means the initial capital is now worth $20K. For some reason, you need cash urgently so you decide to sell the Bitcoin you own for cash. You do it and now you have that $20K on hand.

In this process of trading, your profit is $10K for sure, regardless of whether the Bitcoin price will pump or dump. If you won't invest again, this beautiful success should be what you are proud of. However, 99% of us will choose to buy again and hope for the next success. However, now you buy at $40K and the price may drop to a new low below $20K later, and the profit you gained from last trading may be eaten up gradually by the market dump.

Connect the two dots(two extreme conditions) and draw a curve, high chances are that at last, your profits from all investments may not be that much, at least much less than what you expected when you first gained that $10K. Therefore, all the occasional profits between investments may become fixed or variable costs that these investment must pay.

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

What you are describing is not investment cost but rather you flip-flopping between selling and buying at the wrong times, which eats away your profit in two ways:

the first way is that you obviously get scared of the dump and sell lower than you bought. Then the price rises and you buy again because you think it will continue going up, without you. Repeat process until you have no money.

The second way, which most people underestimate, is you grind away your money with trading fees. 0.1% and 0.1% and again and again until you have grinded away 10% from your repeated and unnecessary back and forth trading.

The only real investment costs should be the withdrawal fees and the one-time buying fee. Thats it. After that you hodl.

And if you are susceptible to panic-selling or panic-buying, then walk away from the computer and distract yourself with something else at least for a few years. Investing into Bitcoin takes discipline.

[palle11]

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

What you have described is trading or by extension buying and selling and this is normal. If you make profit, you have to try to sustain it by either making more profit or making less losses and by that your profit margin will be rising. So if you have made $10k in your first trade, try to sustain it by buying or selling at appropriate time. You have made a simple and normal analysis on trading, investment and it is normal hodling or selling and rebuying at intervals.

[jrrsparkles]

One question bothers me a long time and I am not sure if there is anyone that thinks about this before. Let's say you invested $10K in Bitcoin when the price was $20K,  and some time later the price pumped to $40K, which means the initial capital is now worth $20K. For some reason, you need cash urgently so you decide to sell the Bitcoin you own for cash. You do it and now you have that $20K on hand.

In this process of trading, your profit is $10K for sure, regardless of whether the Bitcoin price will pump or dump. If you won't invest again, this beautiful success should be what you are proud of. However, 99% of us will choose to buy again and hope for the next success. However, now you buy at $40K and the price may drop to a new low below $20K later, and the profit you gained from last trading may be eaten up gradually by the market dump.

Connect the two dots(two extreme conditions) and draw a curve, high chances are that at last, your profits from all investments may not be that much, at least much less than what you expected when you first gained that $10K. Therefore, all the occasional profits between investments may become fixed or variable costs that these investment must pay.

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

There are different types of investment strategies followed by investor so the scenario may have different outcomes depends on what strategy we are following.

For example you made 10K profits which is 100% return so I will cash out the capital alone and let the profit to sit in the wallet for long time so you can utilise the capital on other investments since you have nothing to lose with your crypto investment.

Accumulating more Bitcoin is another strategy and it is more suitable for very long term investment like 5 to 10 years atleast by that time surely you will be in profits.

[Ansu5801]

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

Yeah statement is quite logical to me because it doesn't matter you are re investing your money there will be a factor of risk present at every investment opportunity. All you have to do is to do your proper study before investing your money. Like if you follow the sequence when you made 10k profit at first investment and you thought you would made another tank a profit in another investment but that's a sequence that you should avoid.

What you should do is to do the same level of study that you have done when you are investing the first time and there is one more factor that investing and trading are two different things so if we are investing then we should have to wait for longer period of time and if we are trading we can see result in lesser time.

Ultimately risk factor and risk management are the main component of investing and trading that we should not avoid even if we made profit in the first try.

[Smartprofit]

One question bothers me a long time and I am not sure if there is anyone that thinks about this before. Let's say you invested $10K in Bitcoin when the price was $20K,  and some time later the price pumped to $40K, which means the initial capital is now worth $20K. For some reason, you need cash urgently so you decide to sell the Bitcoin you own for cash. You do it and now you have that $20K on hand.

In this process of trading, your profit is $10K for sure, regardless of whether the Bitcoin price will pump or dump. If you won't invest again, this beautiful success should be what you are proud of. However, 99% of us will choose to buy again and hope for the next success. However, now you buy at $40K and the price may drop to a new low below $20K later, and the profit you gained from last trading may be eaten up gradually by the market dump.

Connect the two dots(two extreme conditions) and draw a curve, high chances are that at last, your profits from all investments may not be that much, at least much less than what you expected when you first gained that $10K. Therefore, all the occasional profits between investments may become fixed or variable costs that these investment must pay.

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

In my opinion, it is a very bad strategy to sell at a low price ($20,000) and then re-buy an asset that has already doubled in price ($40,000).

You need to buy bitcoin in a bear market (at a low price) and sell it at a bull market (at a high price).
 
Now that's a good trading strategy!  

If you are selling bitcoins to buy things that are vital to you, then this has nothing to do with trading.  In this case, Bitcoins perform the function of money (monetary, payment function).  

Bitcoin is both an investment asset and money, it can perform both functions.

[BIT-BENDER]

Well this is a very shallow thought in my opinion, the first thing to know about investing and investors is the risks that come with it, you can not be successful by trying to avoid them.

Also this doesn’t mean you should be blind folded and then jump at a risk. You can actually read the market and if that’s the case I believe Bitcoin isn’t as risky as other coins, and it’s best to be a long term holder on Bitcoin because the chances of gains are high.

[un_rank]

If you invested $10K and did not sell and waited untial the Bitcoin price reached $100K, what is the point of making profit ? That would only mean profits on paper. You have to cash it to guarantee the real gains.

If $100k was your target when investing, then you can sell at that point. The essence of my first post was that buying and selling with no target range of profit you want to get or target range of loss you cannot absorb. is almost the same as pumping and dumping a coin.

- Jay -

[Asiska02]

Your point appears logical, but not many traders, particularly those who are new to trading, will think of it that way. When you have a plan in place and a specific profit goal in mind, buying and selling at regular intervals will jeopardize your investment and cause you to lose it all as the market fluctuates. You can avoid all of this if you have a target and work towards achieving it without being bothered or tempted by market volatility, especially when the market is in an uptrend.

[darkangel11]

That's why I don't trade and I don't check the price often. I don't see bitcoin pumps as me making money and bitcoin dumps as me losing money. At some point, when you have a lot of bitcoin and it's worth a lot of money in fiat terms, you stop watching the market. You no longer bother yourself with this little "oh I gained 10k now" and a month later "oh I'm down 2k today from that 10k profit".

Think of it like this:
You have all you want as an average person. A house, a family, a job, cars, bikes, computers, phones, all that normal shit. I'm not talking jets and lambos, but all the average stuff. You once got bitcoin for maybe 1k USD and it's now worth 1 million. It was worth 2 million a year ago, 500k 6 months ago, now it's a million, you no longer care. Your investment was 1k and it's never going back to 1k.
I know a lot of people with a lot of bitcoin and a similar mindset. We just want to have an alternative and we're fine with whatever is happening because when we spend bitcoin, it's because we're happy with the price.

Coming back to the point. You're bothered with the investment cost because to you it's 10k and you have 10k profit. If I had a million and reached a million in profit for the first time, I'd redeem my million in profit and satisfy my need to show the success "on paper" and then kept the other million in bitcoin for the next 5+ years. That's where I'm at right now. The investment cost was redeemed somewhere in 2017 and now there's no more "cost" to think about. It's all profit, whether bitcoin is at 10k or 100k.

[Baofeng]

And that's why you really need to understand when to enter the market, when to sell and when to HODL otherwise you might not maximized your profits or at least regret selling early to take that money. I know it's hard to do that, but at least you should picture that mind and learn and re-learn as you go on with your journey in investing in this market.

So in this case, if you buy at the top and then the price goes down, you have 'realized' loss, meaning it's just paper loss on your end unless you really sold at the price, but are you going to do it when you know that you are going to be in the negative? Of course not. So what you are going to do in that case, then HODL and wait for the price to go up again.

Sooner or later you will understand how this variables will affect your profits or what you term variable cost, and so you will have to advise. It's not always perfect here, maybe you will lose some money in the beginning, but the thing is that you have to learn from that experience to make you a better trader or investor.

[tabas]

What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

That's part of being a trader and an investor, if you're not prepared to miss those gains and have them yours as losses then that means that it is not for you. Every time you think of those missed chance and you do no action on it, this will make you feel regret at most times. But you know what's the best choice is just to be a holder at these times so you won't be taking the whole pressure that you'll get from the market and at the same time you just chill out while waiting for that gain and by that, you won't have those interval losses. Well, when you enter this market, you need to have a plan of getting in and out but for the most of us here, there's no getting out as this is an unstoppable journey and this bitcoin(train) will just keep on pushing forward.

[Darker45]

The simple adage in Bitcoin is buy low sell high. If you bought at $20,000 and was compelled by some reason to sell at $40,000, and you're planning for a buy back, at least choose the right entry point. If you think that $40,000 is still a right entry price because you foresee more increases in the near future, then go ahead. But if instead of an increase the price corrects and even went down below $20,000, do not sell. Sell only, if you must, when the price goes above $40,000. Instead, buy more. It's an opportunity for you to buy back at a much lower price.

On a side note, though. This is why DCA is the better approach. Also, you don't invest all your savings in Bitcoin. Always keep aside savings for emergency and other unexpected expenses. Finally, Bitcoin is best for long-term. Corrections and sell-offs are temporary. In the long run, you will make profit.

[Marcellin9]

That's why I don't trade and I don't check the price often. I don't see bitcoin pumps as me making money and bitcoin dumps as me losing money. At some point, when you have a lot of bitcoin and it's worth a lot of money in fiat terms, you stop watching the market. You no longer bother yourself with this little "oh I gained 10k now" and a month later "oh I'm down 2k today from that 10k profit".

Think of it like this:
You have all you want as an average person. A house, a family, a job, cars, bikes, computers, phones, all that normal shit. I'm not talking jets and lambos, but all the average stuff. You once got bitcoin for maybe 1k USD and it's now worth 1 million. It was worth 2 million a year ago, 500k 6 months ago, now it's a million, you no longer care. Your investment was 1k and it's never going back to 1k.
I know a lot of people with a lot of bitcoin and a similar mindset. We just want to have an alternative and we're fine with whatever is happening because when we spend bitcoin, it's because we're happy with the price.

Coming back to the point. You're bothered with the investment cost because to you it's 10k and you have 10k profit. If I had a million and reached a million in profit for the first time, I'd redeem my million in profit and satisfy my need to show the success "on paper" and then kept the other million in bitcoin for the next 5+ years. That's where I'm at right now. The investment cost was redeemed somewhere in 2017 and now there's no more "cost" to think about. It's all profit, whether bitcoin is at 10k or 100k.

Excellent point. I was thinking about this yesterday and you have made this point quite clearly if we want to both secure the initial capital and make the profits as the new investment capital to generate more profits. Whenever in the future we choose to sell, every cash-out is all profit. Thanks for sharing and this makes me more confident.

If you won't invest again, this beautiful success should be what you are proud of. However, 99% of us will choose to buy again and hope for the next success. However, now you buy at $40K and the price may drop to a new low below $20K later, and the profit you gained from last trading may be eaten up gradually by the market dump.

OP, I'm understanding your hypothetical scenario but what I'm not getting is what you're getting at with your question and with statements like the above.

You could ask an infinite number of "what if...?" questions regarding the market, and you'll get infinity+1 number of answers if you start a thread about them--nobody can tell you what the right thing to do in any trading circumstance, because the definition of "right" can vary from trader to trader based on any number of factors.  It sounds like you don't have a lot of experience with markets and trading, am I right?  Well, you're in for a fun ride, but it's one with a very harsh and unforgiving driving instructor, i.e., learning from mistakes.  And you will make them.  If anybody says they've never screwed up a trade, they're lying.

Good luck.

I am not an experienced trader as you are and thanks for your reminder.  Actually, I have decided to invest in Bitcoin as a long term holder. There should be less trouble if I avoid to check the price update every day.

[Inwestour]

Connect the two dots(two extreme conditions) and draw a curve, high chances are that at last, your profits from all investments may not be that much, at least much less than what you expected when you first gained that $10K. Therefore, all the occasional profits between investments may become fixed or variable costs that these investment must pay.

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

You know that there are investors who bought bitcoin at a price of 1000 and still have not sold it, what do you think they would answer you? Your post is just a theoretical suggestion that you bought at the right time and sold at the right time, but it looks nice on paper, it's not in reality.

In addition, bitcoin shows that it can give more than just doubling your investment, it can be x4 or x5, and only in this case it is worth thinking about selling. There are different types of investors, some buy and wait for many years, others try to sell in a bull market to buy more bitcoins in a bear market, but in this case it is more like long-term trading.

[Merit.s]

If you invested $10K and did not sell and waited untial the Bitcoin price reached $100K, what is the point of making profit ? That would only mean profits on paper. You have to cash it to guarantee the real gains. "Selling and buying back at intervals can work when you try to sell at the top and buy back at the bottom, but does not come with guarantees.", actually I am not talking about guarantees and just try to generalize something useful from millions of investors' experiences. Thanks.

If you are a trader then that is when you can sell when the price is high and buy when the price is low. If you are an investor who wants a good profit out of your investment, it is better to hold for long before selling. With this strategy,it is a most that you will make a good profit if you sell in a bull run. As an investor, it is your choice to sell your bitcoin for cash at the bull run or better still leave it in your wallet,it will still have the bitcoin value,either the price pump or dump. Remember if you sell off your bitcoin,you still need to buy it back. what's the difference between holding your coins for two bull market before selling and selling in the first bull market,what matters is that
1btc=1btc

[Poker Player]

One question bothers me a long time and I am not sure if there is anyone that thinks about this before. Let's say you invested $10K in Bitcoin when the price was $20K,  and some time later the price pumped to $40K, which means the initial capital is now worth $20K. For some reason, you need cash urgently so you decide to sell the Bitcoin you own for cash. You do it and now you have that $20K on hand.

If you have to sell because of an emergency, you're doing it wrong. An essential principle of personal finance is to have an emergency fund of between 3 and 6 months' worth of cash. That if you live in the USA or a similar industrialized country could very well be the $20k you are talking about. In addition you may have other types of assets that you could borrow on at low interest rates if you don't want to sell the Bitcoin.

For example, at your bank you have $20k in an emergency savings account, $150k in pension plans, and another $50k in stocks or mutual funds, your bank will be happy to give you a loan if a supposed emergency exceeds $20k, but I for example in the last 15 years haven't had an emergency that exceeded 10% of that
 
So, if you manage your personal finances well you will not be forced to sell, and you can hold the Bitcoin for a couple of cycles at least, to then consider whether to make partial sales.
 

[joniboini]

I am not an experienced trader as you are and thanks for your reminder.  Actually, I have decided to invest in Bitcoin as a long term holder. There should be less trouble if I avoid to check the price update every day.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with checking prices regularly as long as you don't get stressed. You can use that opportunity to find the best time to DCA your holding, or simply check out if the market is stable or not if you want to diversify into other coins, although that is unlikely based on your description.

But yeah, if you're a newbie, it is easy to get stressed out from daily price movement. Especially if you are so active on social media. Best to avoid them if you want good mental health. Most of the time you'll just see a blown-out issue or repeated 'Bitcoin is death' narrative each time there is a huge dip in the market.

[gunhell16]

It's just an example you're talking about, right? If that's the real situation, that's okay to consider because the 10k$ you earned is a huge amount. Anyway, if you sold your Bitcoin for that amount, you would appear to be a short-term holder and not a long-term investor.

It should be as an investor because you know whether you are long-term or short-term. Because if you are a long-term investor, you know how many years you will hold your bitcoins and in that year, no matter how much bitcoin you have, you will sell it knowing that you will have a real profit.

[ancafe]

Connect the two dots(two extreme conditions) and draw a curve, high chances are that at last, your profits from all investments may not be that much, at least much less than what you expected when you first gained that $10K. Therefore, all the occasional profits between investments may become fixed or variable costs that these investment must pay.

Let's say to simplify the question you are asking, authorized capital is $10k and net profit is $10k, then on the way you need cash and sell bitcoins. If that's me, $ 10k is used for needs and $ 10k is used to buy, but if this pattern is continuously carried out the profit on your investment will not increase.

Instead investments can be combined with savings, for example if you apply a certain investment percentage and a certain percentage saving, then when you need cash you don't have to sell bitcoins but you can use temporary savings. The choice is not the amount of investment, but you understand the conditions whenever you need cash and if you invest then you sell it back without remaining, it's the same as placing money in the bank on a deposit.

[19Nov16]

Investment cost is something that we must consider when investing, the mistake that many people or beginners make is usually not paying attention to investment costs, as happens with trading, we must consider trading costs, because some DEX apply expensive trading fees and the initial calculation is profit, it can be a loss .

[el kaka22]

No, it doesn't sound logical to me. You take into consideration that I would buy something, it will go up, I will sell it, it will continue to go up, and I will buy it again. When you consider it like that then yeah there is a cost to it and that would be bad. However, how about this, I buy something, it goes up, I sell it at peak, then it goes down, then I buy it again, and it goes up, so I double my profit as well as my initial capital, so my 10k became 20k but then became 40k. Does that make sense?

It's not like that can't happen, it could very well happen and I would love to see that. However, we can't know what's going to happen in the future so whatever we do it is not going to be a great deal and we should just focus on what's real and not something that is hypothetical.

[AbuBhakar]

Your point appears logical, but not many traders, particularly those who are new to trading, will think of it that way. When you have a plan in place and a specific profit goal in mind, buying and selling at regular intervals will jeopardize your investment and cause you to lose it all as the market fluctuates. You can avoid all of this if you have a target and work towards achieving it without being bothered or tempted by market volatility, especially when the market is in an uptrend.

There should be certain amount when we will sell or buy some investment, sometimes the transactions fee were too high that also takes some amount in our supposedly investment. Though in 1st case of OP it’s normal to sell if there is a need for money but if only plans to hold it will be better to hold unless we will be able to sell it high and got a chance to buy back at lower price. However we mist be attentive in the market price to be able to do that. If we’re into trading it is good also to see and trade some altcoins as there might crypto that gets some hype.

[Beparanf]

It's surely absurd to return the investment including the profit on the same price that you take profit. Also this problem will be avoid if you will just DCA on your buys to avoid buying on the top without having a chance to average your buy order price.

The reason why people keep falling on this shit scenario is because of no contentment with the profit and aiming for more even if the price is already overbought. Chasing more profit on trading while you are already on profit is what makes trader loss in the long run.

[pixie85]

If you have to sell because of an emergency, you're doing it wrong. An essential principle of personal finance is to have an emergency fund of between 3 and 6 months' worth of cash. That if you live in the USA or a similar industrialized country could very well be the $20k you are talking about. In addition you may have other types of assets that you could borrow on at low interest rates if you don't want to sell the Bitcoin.

For example, at your bank you have $20k in an emergency savings account, $150k in pension plans, and another $50k in stocks or mutual funds, your bank will be happy to give you a loan if a supposed emergency exceeds $20k, but I for example in the last 15 years haven't had an emergency that exceeded 10% of that
 
So, if you manage your personal finances well you will not be forced to sell, and you can hold the Bitcoin for a couple of cycles at least, to then consider whether to make partial sales.
 

You even need more than 6 months, especially if you're investing a lot of money and don't earn a lot from your job.

This is the problem many investors face and why poor people have a hard time making money.

If the fear of losing your investment is too big - you have too much invested. Decrease the investment, but stay in.
If you can't forget about the investment for at least a year, again, decrease your investment, you're too involved.
If you keep checking the price, constantly thinking of selling, you're too greedy, or too fearful. 

Keep in mind that you really have to try to lose money on the bitcoin market, but most people continue to do it.

[DiMarxist]

Everything about investment has its risks and it's profits,If you are an investor who wants a good profit out of your investment, it is better to hold for long-term before selling, With this strategy,it is a most that you will make a good profit if you sell in a bull run. I'm a long-term holder of bitcoin, The DCA pattern is one of the strategies that is good, and DCA till the next bull run.Long term holding is more profitable more than short -term hold, Bitcoin is best for long-term. Investment cost is something that we must consider when investing.

[Ultegra134]

While I understand your point, it doesn't necessarily have to happen that way. The latter, as the OP mentioned, requires you to actually sell at a lower price than the one you've purchased, which might simply be a temporary drop in value. However, I'm not saying that it's impossible for your profit to practically go to zero, but there are ways to lower the chances of it happening. You can simply redeem your profit and reinvest the rest. DCA is also a generally a great method to at least lower the imminent risk. Unfortunately, you cannot stop the inevitable; at some point, we all will suffer a loss.

[Yamifoud]

You should not bother OP because you are still profiting. Not all the time do we think that investors can always be in good situations but at least you have BItcoin to sell when an emergency comes and still earn something from it. Though we can say that it was not the right time to sell your Bitcoin, however, it was still the best option (for me) to sell them rather than having a loan to others which surely cost more for interest rate.
You can still restart it again, might buy now it a little more expensive than before but remember that the price of Bitcoin is growing and we are on soon to bullish, you'd better think optimistic rather than being negative.

[savetheFORUM]

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

A good trader doesn't buy back at the exact position where he has sold his assets to withdraw the profits, that is done only when the price drops below that point, and only if the trader has sold the assets earlier only to buy back when the price dumps, otherwise, they might not even buy again. If they wish to buy back, they will probably wait for the correct time to buy again so that they don't lose back the earned profits.

A novice trader or someone who is always hit by FOMO (fear of missing out) might make the mistake of selling for profit and then buying again at the same time when the price didn't even go down. That can be a costly mistake and might only work sometimes when the market actually goes higher than where they've sold earlier.

[Poker Player]

You even need more than 6 months, especially if you're investing a lot of money and don't earn a lot from your job.

Not really. I don't see how someone could earn little money in their job and invest a lot, it's not mathematically coherent.

If you search on personal finance you will see that they usually recommend between 3 and 6 months of expenses, and at most there are those who recommend a maximum of 6 months of salary (which if you do it right is an amount higher than your expenses). The rest to leave it in cash is to lose money because of the opportunity cost, it is better to invest it.

Another thing is that many people are not clear, or refuse to be clear, about the concept of unforeseen or emergency. Changing the wheels of your car is not an emergency, you have to save for it and leave your emergency fund untouched. If you see that your roof is going to need some repair, you better start saving from the first moment to repair it and do not wait until your roof falls down and you have to use your emergency fund to repair it.

In other words, one thing is an emergency, and another is that, apart from the emergency fund, you also save for foreseeable expenses.

[Lorence.xD]

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

A good trader doesn't buy back at the exact position where he has sold his assets to withdraw the profits, that is done only when the price drops below that point, and only if the trader has sold the assets earlier only to buy back when the price dumps, otherwise, they might not even buy again. If they wish to buy back, they will probably wait for the correct time to buy again so that they don't lose back the earned profits.

A novice trader or someone who is always hit by FOMO (fear of missing out) might make the mistake of selling for profit and then buying again at the same time when the price didn't even go down. That can be a costly mistake and might only work sometimes when the market actually goes higher than where they've sold earlier.

I actually agree, if you've profit enough with the current value of Bitcoin then you decided to buy again and got liquidated then it's not only a mistake but it could count as a greed. If you think you've profited enough you can afford the $10k money that's actually wrong. If you want to continue your success you'll decide smartly and you'll timing when you enter again the market. You also mentioned FOMO which is also part of your emotional stability, if you can't control your emotion plus trading then it will just lead you to worse calls that causes you to loss funds. Always double think before acting up to you decisions sometimes we'd decide based on our feelings, emotions and instict.

[Mauser]

Connect the two dots(two extreme conditions) and draw a curve, high chances are that at last, your profits from all investments may not be that much, at least much less than what you expected when you first gained that $10K. Therefore, all the occasional profits between investments may become fixed or variable costs that these investment must pay.

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

I don't fully understand your example. You invest 10k USD and turn it into 20k USD, which you are going to sell because you need the money. So basically you are down to 0 USD and can't invest directly in bitcoins again. If you don't need the full 20k USD the best option would be to only sell some of your coins and keep the rest of them. Also if you want to reinvest into bitcoins you don't need to put all your money in at a price of 40k USD. You could try and split out your purchases to get a better price over time. Then there is the issue that short term price drops doesn't mean we have a loss at our hand immediately, as long as we are not selling our coins we are not realising our loss and can recover a few month down the road again.

[GeorgeJohn]

One question bothers me a long time and I am not sure if there is anyone that thinks about this before. Let's say you invested $10K in Bitcoin when the price was $20K, and some time later the price pumped to $40K,

it's in this aspect of scenario that makes people to invest huge amount of money in Bitcoin and invest a money that will not affect them in business or anything they are doing, from my perspective it's encouraging that long term investment is the best, because I believe that definitely Bitcoin will increase because nobody knows the secret or have the documents of Bitcoin, so with that Note I believe that Bitcoin will increase, so running a long term investment for Bitcoin it gives more profit than short term, because those who do Short term investment with bitcoin always be in panic to make profit.

[Joshapat]

As investors, of course we have to understand risk, unfortunately many don't know about investment costs, if we invest in stocks, we usually need a large fee when we want to withdraw, especially if the value we withdraw is very large, this is what makes us have to immediately switch to investment, cryptocurrencies that are hassle free and cost a lot.

[Crypt0Gore]

You lose only if you sell, but if your goal is 2x gain then you are free to tale profit or sell all your Bitcoin and wait for a possible retracement in future, at least we are still in a bear market, we can still see a big pull back because I personally don't like how Bitcoin is pumping this hard right now, it's like we are moving too fast so yea a pullback is now inevitable.

It is advisable to take profit if you really need the money for something very important, we have no other reason when investing than to make more money to be able to solve some problems we have in our lives, so don't think it's wrong to take profits, but not having any Bitcoin left is wrong.

Always leave some Bitcoin left in your wallet, you can still make more gains holding some Bitcoin, with the 10,000$ Bitcoin you have left a 4x is still possible with Bitcoin in the future.

[kryptqnick]

If you invested $10K and did not sell and waited untial the Bitcoin price reached $100K, what is the point of making profit ? That would only mean profits on paper. You have to cash it to guarantee the real gains. "Selling and buying back at intervals can work when you try to sell at the top and buy back at the bottom, but does not come with guarantees.", actually I am not talking about guarantees and just try to generalize something useful from millions of investors' experiences. Thanks.

Yeah, I agree you should spend/sell Bitcoin at some point to actually feel the profits. But that point about waiting still holds. A person can invest $10k at $20k, then sell at $40k. Then invest $10k again at, say, $35k. Let's say the price falls to $20k. Well, you just wait it out and then spend/sell your new investment when the price reaches a new high point, and you think you've made a reasonable profit. So the risks can generally be avoided even if a person is selling Bitcoin occasionally to actually benefit from the profit that was made. That is, if a person believes that Bitcoin always recovers and grows eventually, which is simply something many rely on but not something that can be proven.

[killerfrost]

what OP mentioned reflects a long process leading to failure but then what? The failure or success associated with the time that we accompany is only relative, I understand that we have different investment choices and so are each person's life circumstances that lead to the conclusion. results are in agreement with or are not satisfied with them. However, looking back on the issue of investing a little from the start to the end, it is understandable that psychology is affected and this makes a difference in our experience, as much as possible. The lesson increases the experience and then I believe that each of us will have a view of our investment that is reasonable enough with what we have.

[doomloop]

No, it doesn't sound logical to me. You take into consideration that I would buy something, it will go up, I will sell it, it will continue to go up, and I will buy it again. When you consider it like that then yeah there is a cost to it and that would be bad. However, how about this, I buy something, it goes up, I sell it at peak, then it goes down, then I buy it again, and it goes up, so I double my profit as well as my initial capital, so my 10k became 20k but then became 40k. Does that make sense?

It's not like that can't happen, it could very well happen and I would love to see that. However, we can't know what's going to happen in the future so whatever we do it is not going to be a great deal and we should just focus on what's real and not something that is hypothetical.

What you said is basically what a trader should be doing since that is how one can get profit from trading, but that isn't what everyone does, especially newbies, what they do is they sell early, though they get profit from that, then they start having FOMO as soon as the market goes a little bit up again and they decide to go in again.

And that is basically a mistake because one should only wait for the market to drop below the points where they've previously sold their assets to buy again if they want to get more profit and don't want to have an investment cost.

[tjtonmoy]

Never put all your money in one trade. Only invest what you are willing to lose. Take risk management. Do your research before investing. Never buy at green. Buy low, sell high. Sudden drop? Have the will to hodl before it pumps back up.
These are all just common knowledge and basics of trading. So why would someone put all his money (profits included) in one trade when the price is so high? This is just a newbie mistake and a victim of greed. If you know how to analyze the market, you would never do that.
After making the first profit, move your main balance somewhere safe. Invest again with your earned profits. If the profit is higher than main balance, then move the profit. Vice versa with main balance too.
Create your own strategy and plans on managing your investments.

[traderethereum]

If your target is long-term then it makes sense because even if you buy at $40k and maybe drop to a low below $20k, you are losing right now, but if you can hold on until the price goes back up above $40k, you can benefit again.
If you need money and need to sell your bitcoins, you can calculate how much you need so you don't have to sell all your bitcoins simultaneously.
You can sell your bitcoins to meet the needs of the money so that you still have remaining bitcoins ready to sell at the next highest price.
And it will be even better to buy bitcoins at a low price because it will increase your bitcoin amount.

[South Park]

snip

Always leave some Bitcoin left in your wallet, you can still make more gains holding some Bitcoin, with the 10,000$ Bitcoin you have left a 4x is still possible with Bitcoin in the future.

I agree, unless a person is facing an emergency that forces them to sell all their coins then an investor should never sell all his holdings and they should always keep some just in case bitcoin skyrockets dramatically, now this can be a difficult decision especially when great profits have been accrued during a bull run and people want to cash out, but it is precisely at those moments when we need to exercise our discipline and self-control and avoid making such a move.

[Negotiation]

Generally, no one cares about the cost of investing in bitcoins investors want to earn profits by holding bitcoins for long term investments. As long as the price does not go up, it should be held it would be foolish to sell when the price goes down because bitcoin is not static and the price goes through a bull run. Have to wait patiently until the maximum goes up if you can keep a strong hand don't be afraid to dip always hold the bitcoin investment.

[Faisal2202]

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

This act is only logical to me in one way of greed. Because the one who have more greed, try to make profits from every trade regardless of market situations. No wonder, a lot of early or pro traders book big profits in their first trade but that could be due to luck. The real skills are when you can book profit from the second trade consistently.

You should perform the same level of analysis before the second trade like you did in the first one. You should not follow your emotions of opening another trade just because you make profits in the last one. Because when you made $10k profit in first trade then by flowing in your emotional sentiments (greed) you opened another trade and lost your profit of $10k dollars. I have a tip for you to perform DCA and diversification  which will decrease the ratio of loss.  

Everyone notices these things before opening any trade because analysis is not a one time step to do it's a prerequisites of every trade even you are trading in the same pair. Why it is necassary? Because market is so u predictable and depends on many fundamental and technical factors which we should keep in mind before taking entry in trades. I hope you will got my point.

[Wong Gendheng]

In my opinion as investors we must pay attention to investment costs, because the cost of several investments is usually large, so that after we withdraw and affected by costs, the final result is losing money, of course we must be careful in calculating investment costs.

[Yatsan]

In my opinion as investors we must pay attention to investment costs, because the cost of several investments is usually large, so that after we withdraw and affected by costs, the final result is losing money, of course we must be careful in calculating investment costs.

Unfortunately, nothing's free especially if you are talking about investment. You have to put something in order to get something; that's how simple it is. In any field of investment, risk wouldbe present. And in order to become successful with any investment you are olanning to engage yourself into, you'd be needing more money in order to sustain what you have experienced. Costing would also be helpful especially if you are aware of your capabilities to shoulder an expense and this also applies to not only crypto investments but also with properties and businesses.Atleast, in such instance you would be able to keep the 'fire' going. Bottomline is, small or big amount is still a progress.

[someone703]

(...)Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

Are you feeling conflicted? I've found that once you've invested and believed in this market, your willingness to take the risks as well as see the opportunity to increase profits has been calculated from the start. And you bring up the problem that you yourself have not really come across in this market, remember that when you take profits from the market and then wait for the opportunity to re-enter it almost in a cycle price increases and decreases in the market. Without that volatility I firmly believe it would never have attracted people to come and buy more over time. In an investment environment, no one is absolutely perfect, but mistakes can come, and success is for those who seize that opportunity whether short-term or long-term. may happen.

[WillyAp]

unfortunately many don't know about investment costs,

That's a fact. Most investors in Crypto a quite clueless and believe that no one but they should make some money.

[BVeyron]

One question bothers me a long time and I am not sure if there is anyone that thinks about this before. Let's say you invested $10K in Bitcoin when the price was $20K,  and some time later the price pumped to $40K, which means the initial capital is now worth $20K. For some reason, you need cash urgently so you decide to sell the Bitcoin you own for cash. You do it and now you have that $20K on hand.

In this process of trading, your profit is $10K for sure, regardless of whether the Bitcoin price will pump or dump. If you won't invest again, this beautiful success should be what you are proud of. However, 99% of us will choose to buy again and hope for the next success. However, now you buy at $40K and the price may drop to a new low below $20K later, and the profit you gained from last trading may be eaten up gradually by the market dump.

Connect the two dots(two extreme conditions) and draw a curve, high chances are that at last, your profits from all investments may not be that much, at least much less than what you expected when you first gained that $10K. Therefore, all the occasional profits between investments may become fixed or variable costs that these investment must pay.

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

That's the gambling side of investments, it accompanies all the investments. Some people actually love the gambling aspect of investing, while others prefer getting stable but not so hig income. And there is one more thing with income after withdrawing money: the value of usd also can be different at the time of investing and at the time of withdrawing, so winning a gamble in dollars doesn't always mean winning it in true values. Especially if withdrawal is around 110-120% of the initial sum, it is often a problem. The main values are within personal psychology and priorities, not in the numbers...