Does anyone notice the "investment cost" ?

[Marcellin9]

That's why I don't trade and I don't check the price often. I don't see bitcoin pumps as me making money and bitcoin dumps as me losing money. At some point, when you have a lot of bitcoin and it's worth a lot of money in fiat terms, you stop watching the market. You no longer bother yourself with this little "oh I gained 10k now" and a month later "oh I'm down 2k today from that 10k profit".

Think of it like this:
You have all you want as an average person. A house, a family, a job, cars, bikes, computers, phones, all that normal shit. I'm not talking jets and lambos, but all the average stuff. You once got bitcoin for maybe 1k USD and it's now worth 1 million. It was worth 2 million a year ago, 500k 6 months ago, now it's a million, you no longer care. Your investment was 1k and it's never going back to 1k.
I know a lot of people with a lot of bitcoin and a similar mindset. We just want to have an alternative and we're fine with whatever is happening because when we spend bitcoin, it's because we're happy with the price.

Coming back to the point. You're bothered with the investment cost because to you it's 10k and you have 10k profit. If I had a million and reached a million in profit for the first time, I'd redeem my million in profit and satisfy my need to show the success "on paper" and then kept the other million in bitcoin for the next 5+ years. That's where I'm at right now. The investment cost was redeemed somewhere in 2017 and now there's no more "cost" to think about. It's all profit, whether bitcoin is at 10k or 100k.

Excellent point. I was thinking about this yesterday and you have made this point quite clearly if we want to both secure the initial capital and make the profits as the new investment capital to generate more profits. Whenever in the future we choose to sell, every cash-out is all profit. Thanks for sharing and this makes me more confident.

If you won't invest again, this beautiful success should be what you are proud of. However, 99% of us will choose to buy again and hope for the next success. However, now you buy at $40K and the price may drop to a new low below $20K later, and the profit you gained from last trading may be eaten up gradually by the market dump.

OP, I'm understanding your hypothetical scenario but what I'm not getting is what you're getting at with your question and with statements like the above.

You could ask an infinite number of "what if...?" questions regarding the market, and you'll get infinity+1 number of answers if you start a thread about them--nobody can tell you what the right thing to do in any trading circumstance, because the definition of "right" can vary from trader to trader based on any number of factors.  It sounds like you don't have a lot of experience with markets and trading, am I right?  Well, you're in for a fun ride, but it's one with a very harsh and unforgiving driving instructor, i.e., learning from mistakes.  And you will make them.  If anybody says they've never screwed up a trade, they're lying.

Good luck.

I am not an experienced trader as you are and thanks for your reminder.  Actually, I have decided to invest in Bitcoin as a long term holder. There should be less trouble if I avoid to check the price update every day.

[Inwestour]

Connect the two dots(two extreme conditions) and draw a curve, high chances are that at last, your profits from all investments may not be that much, at least much less than what you expected when you first gained that $10K. Therefore, all the occasional profits between investments may become fixed or variable costs that these investment must pay.

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

You know that there are investors who bought bitcoin at a price of 1000 and still have not sold it, what do you think they would answer you? Your post is just a theoretical suggestion that you bought at the right time and sold at the right time, but it looks nice on paper, it's not in reality.

In addition, bitcoin shows that it can give more than just doubling your investment, it can be x4 or x5, and only in this case it is worth thinking about selling. There are different types of investors, some buy and wait for many years, others try to sell in a bull market to buy more bitcoins in a bear market, but in this case it is more like long-term trading.

[Merit.s]

If you invested $10K and did not sell and waited untial the Bitcoin price reached $100K, what is the point of making profit ? That would only mean profits on paper. You have to cash it to guarantee the real gains. "Selling and buying back at intervals can work when you try to sell at the top and buy back at the bottom, but does not come with guarantees.", actually I am not talking about guarantees and just try to generalize something useful from millions of investors' experiences. Thanks.

If you are a trader then that is when you can sell when the price is high and buy when the price is low. If you are an investor who wants a good profit out of your investment, it is better to hold for long before selling. With this strategy,it is a most that you will make a good profit if you sell in a bull run. As an investor, it is your choice to sell your bitcoin for cash at the bull run or better still leave it in your wallet,it will still have the bitcoin value,either the price pump or dump. Remember if you sell off your bitcoin,you still need to buy it back. what's the difference between holding your coins for two bull market before selling and selling in the first bull market,what matters is that
1btc=1btc

[Poker Player]

One question bothers me a long time and I am not sure if there is anyone that thinks about this before. Let's say you invested $10K in Bitcoin when the price was $20K,  and some time later the price pumped to $40K, which means the initial capital is now worth $20K. For some reason, you need cash urgently so you decide to sell the Bitcoin you own for cash. You do it and now you have that $20K on hand.

If you have to sell because of an emergency, you're doing it wrong. An essential principle of personal finance is to have an emergency fund of between 3 and 6 months' worth of cash. That if you live in the USA or a similar industrialized country could very well be the $20k you are talking about. In addition you may have other types of assets that you could borrow on at low interest rates if you don't want to sell the Bitcoin.

For example, at your bank you have $20k in an emergency savings account, $150k in pension plans, and another $50k in stocks or mutual funds, your bank will be happy to give you a loan if a supposed emergency exceeds $20k, but I for example in the last 15 years haven't had an emergency that exceeded 10% of that
 
So, if you manage your personal finances well you will not be forced to sell, and you can hold the Bitcoin for a couple of cycles at least, to then consider whether to make partial sales.
 

[joniboini]

I am not an experienced trader as you are and thanks for your reminder.  Actually, I have decided to invest in Bitcoin as a long term holder. There should be less trouble if I avoid to check the price update every day.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with checking prices regularly as long as you don't get stressed. You can use that opportunity to find the best time to DCA your holding, or simply check out if the market is stable or not if you want to diversify into other coins, although that is unlikely based on your description.

But yeah, if you're a newbie, it is easy to get stressed out from daily price movement. Especially if you are so active on social media. Best to avoid them if you want good mental health. Most of the time you'll just see a blown-out issue or repeated 'Bitcoin is death' narrative each time there is a huge dip in the market.

[gunhell16]

It's just an example you're talking about, right? If that's the real situation, that's okay to consider because the 10k$ you earned is a huge amount. Anyway, if you sold your Bitcoin for that amount, you would appear to be a short-term holder and not a long-term investor.

It should be as an investor because you know whether you are long-term or short-term. Because if you are a long-term investor, you know how many years you will hold your bitcoins and in that year, no matter how much bitcoin you have, you will sell it knowing that you will have a real profit.

[ancafe]

Connect the two dots(two extreme conditions) and draw a curve, high chances are that at last, your profits from all investments may not be that much, at least much less than what you expected when you first gained that $10K. Therefore, all the occasional profits between investments may become fixed or variable costs that these investment must pay.

Let's say to simplify the question you are asking, authorized capital is $10k and net profit is $10k, then on the way you need cash and sell bitcoins. If that's me, $ 10k is used for needs and $ 10k is used to buy, but if this pattern is continuously carried out the profit on your investment will not increase.

Instead investments can be combined with savings, for example if you apply a certain investment percentage and a certain percentage saving, then when you need cash you don't have to sell bitcoins but you can use temporary savings. The choice is not the amount of investment, but you understand the conditions whenever you need cash and if you invest then you sell it back without remaining, it's the same as placing money in the bank on a deposit.

[19Nov16]

Investment cost is something that we must consider when investing, the mistake that many people or beginners make is usually not paying attention to investment costs, as happens with trading, we must consider trading costs, because some DEX apply expensive trading fees and the initial calculation is profit, it can be a loss .

[el kaka22]

No, it doesn't sound logical to me. You take into consideration that I would buy something, it will go up, I will sell it, it will continue to go up, and I will buy it again. When you consider it like that then yeah there is a cost to it and that would be bad. However, how about this, I buy something, it goes up, I sell it at peak, then it goes down, then I buy it again, and it goes up, so I double my profit as well as my initial capital, so my 10k became 20k but then became 40k. Does that make sense?

It's not like that can't happen, it could very well happen and I would love to see that. However, we can't know what's going to happen in the future so whatever we do it is not going to be a great deal and we should just focus on what's real and not something that is hypothetical.

[AbuBhakar]

Your point appears logical, but not many traders, particularly those who are new to trading, will think of it that way. When you have a plan in place and a specific profit goal in mind, buying and selling at regular intervals will jeopardize your investment and cause you to lose it all as the market fluctuates. You can avoid all of this if you have a target and work towards achieving it without being bothered or tempted by market volatility, especially when the market is in an uptrend.

There should be certain amount when we will sell or buy some investment, sometimes the transactions fee were too high that also takes some amount in our supposedly investment. Though in 1st case of OP it’s normal to sell if there is a need for money but if only plans to hold it will be better to hold unless we will be able to sell it high and got a chance to buy back at lower price. However we mist be attentive in the market price to be able to do that. If we’re into trading it is good also to see and trade some altcoins as there might crypto that gets some hype.

[Beparanf]

It's surely absurd to return the investment including the profit on the same price that you take profit. Also this problem will be avoid if you will just DCA on your buys to avoid buying on the top without having a chance to average your buy order price.

The reason why people keep falling on this shit scenario is because of no contentment with the profit and aiming for more even if the price is already overbought. Chasing more profit on trading while you are already on profit is what makes trader loss in the long run.

[pixie85]

If you have to sell because of an emergency, you're doing it wrong. An essential principle of personal finance is to have an emergency fund of between 3 and 6 months' worth of cash. That if you live in the USA or a similar industrialized country could very well be the $20k you are talking about. In addition you may have other types of assets that you could borrow on at low interest rates if you don't want to sell the Bitcoin.

For example, at your bank you have $20k in an emergency savings account, $150k in pension plans, and another $50k in stocks or mutual funds, your bank will be happy to give you a loan if a supposed emergency exceeds $20k, but I for example in the last 15 years haven't had an emergency that exceeded 10% of that
 
So, if you manage your personal finances well you will not be forced to sell, and you can hold the Bitcoin for a couple of cycles at least, to then consider whether to make partial sales.
 

You even need more than 6 months, especially if you're investing a lot of money and don't earn a lot from your job.

This is the problem many investors face and why poor people have a hard time making money.

If the fear of losing your investment is too big - you have too much invested. Decrease the investment, but stay in.
If you can't forget about the investment for at least a year, again, decrease your investment, you're too involved.
If you keep checking the price, constantly thinking of selling, you're too greedy, or too fearful. 

Keep in mind that you really have to try to lose money on the bitcoin market, but most people continue to do it.

[DiMarxist]

Everything about investment has its risks and it's profits,If you are an investor who wants a good profit out of your investment, it is better to hold for long-term before selling, With this strategy,it is a most that you will make a good profit if you sell in a bull run. I'm a long-term holder of bitcoin, The DCA pattern is one of the strategies that is good, and DCA till the next bull run.Long term holding is more profitable more than short -term hold, Bitcoin is best for long-term. Investment cost is something that we must consider when investing.

[Ultegra134]

While I understand your point, it doesn't necessarily have to happen that way. The latter, as the OP mentioned, requires you to actually sell at a lower price than the one you've purchased, which might simply be a temporary drop in value. However, I'm not saying that it's impossible for your profit to practically go to zero, but there are ways to lower the chances of it happening. You can simply redeem your profit and reinvest the rest. DCA is also a generally a great method to at least lower the imminent risk. Unfortunately, you cannot stop the inevitable; at some point, we all will suffer a loss.

[Yamifoud]

You should not bother OP because you are still profiting. Not all the time do we think that investors can always be in good situations but at least you have BItcoin to sell when an emergency comes and still earn something from it. Though we can say that it was not the right time to sell your Bitcoin, however, it was still the best option (for me) to sell them rather than having a loan to others which surely cost more for interest rate.
You can still restart it again, might buy now it a little more expensive than before but remember that the price of Bitcoin is growing and we are on soon to bullish, you'd better think optimistic rather than being negative.

[savetheFORUM]

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

A good trader doesn't buy back at the exact position where he has sold his assets to withdraw the profits, that is done only when the price drops below that point, and only if the trader has sold the assets earlier only to buy back when the price dumps, otherwise, they might not even buy again. If they wish to buy back, they will probably wait for the correct time to buy again so that they don't lose back the earned profits.

A novice trader or someone who is always hit by FOMO (fear of missing out) might make the mistake of selling for profit and then buying again at the same time when the price didn't even go down. That can be a costly mistake and might only work sometimes when the market actually goes higher than where they've sold earlier.

[Poker Player]

You even need more than 6 months, especially if you're investing a lot of money and don't earn a lot from your job.

Not really. I don't see how someone could earn little money in their job and invest a lot, it's not mathematically coherent.

If you search on personal finance you will see that they usually recommend between 3 and 6 months of expenses, and at most there are those who recommend a maximum of 6 months of salary (which if you do it right is an amount higher than your expenses). The rest to leave it in cash is to lose money because of the opportunity cost, it is better to invest it.

Another thing is that many people are not clear, or refuse to be clear, about the concept of unforeseen or emergency. Changing the wheels of your car is not an emergency, you have to save for it and leave your emergency fund untouched. If you see that your roof is going to need some repair, you better start saving from the first moment to repair it and do not wait until your roof falls down and you have to use your emergency fund to repair it.

In other words, one thing is an emergency, and another is that, apart from the emergency fund, you also save for foreseeable expenses.

[Lorence.xD]

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

A good trader doesn't buy back at the exact position where he has sold his assets to withdraw the profits, that is done only when the price drops below that point, and only if the trader has sold the assets earlier only to buy back when the price dumps, otherwise, they might not even buy again. If they wish to buy back, they will probably wait for the correct time to buy again so that they don't lose back the earned profits.

A novice trader or someone who is always hit by FOMO (fear of missing out) might make the mistake of selling for profit and then buying again at the same time when the price didn't even go down. That can be a costly mistake and might only work sometimes when the market actually goes higher than where they've sold earlier.

I actually agree, if you've profit enough with the current value of Bitcoin then you decided to buy again and got liquidated then it's not only a mistake but it could count as a greed. If you think you've profited enough you can afford the $10k money that's actually wrong. If you want to continue your success you'll decide smartly and you'll timing when you enter again the market. You also mentioned FOMO which is also part of your emotional stability, if you can't control your emotion plus trading then it will just lead you to worse calls that causes you to loss funds. Always double think before acting up to you decisions sometimes we'd decide based on our feelings, emotions and instict.

[Mauser]

Connect the two dots(two extreme conditions) and draw a curve, high chances are that at last, your profits from all investments may not be that much, at least much less than what you expected when you first gained that $10K. Therefore, all the occasional profits between investments may become fixed or variable costs that these investment must pay.

Does this sound logical to you ? What do you think of all the interval losses from the investment gains ? Please let me know.

I don't fully understand your example. You invest 10k USD and turn it into 20k USD, which you are going to sell because you need the money. So basically you are down to 0 USD and can't invest directly in bitcoins again. If you don't need the full 20k USD the best option would be to only sell some of your coins and keep the rest of them. Also if you want to reinvest into bitcoins you don't need to put all your money in at a price of 40k USD. You could try and split out your purchases to get a better price over time. Then there is the issue that short term price drops doesn't mean we have a loss at our hand immediately, as long as we are not selling our coins we are not realising our loss and can recover a few month down the road again.

[GeorgeJohn]

One question bothers me a long time and I am not sure if there is anyone that thinks about this before. Let's say you invested $10K in Bitcoin when the price was $20K, and some time later the price pumped to $40K,

it's in this aspect of scenario that makes people to invest huge amount of money in Bitcoin and invest a money that will not affect them in business or anything they are doing, from my perspective it's encouraging that long term investment is the best, because I believe that definitely Bitcoin will increase because nobody knows the secret or have the documents of Bitcoin, so with that Note I believe that Bitcoin will increase, so running a long term investment for Bitcoin it gives more profit than short term, because those who do Short term investment with bitcoin always be in panic to make profit.