separate phone for safety reasons?

[WeThePe0ple]

I'm planning to invest 50% of my savings in BTC next week. That equates to 1 BTC at this point.
I know that any investor will call this stupid and reckless.

However my idea is that I will overcome the worst case scenario, which is BTC going to 0. My parents own properties and losing 50% of my savings will not cripple me. Because I will inherit real estate at some point anyway.

I estimate the chance of BTC eventually 30x'ing about 50% so I am willing to take the risk. So it's 50/50 between 30x and 0. I will take that bet.

However, I am concerned about 2 scenarios.

1) Malware on my laptop/smartphone (I know that my data are all over the internet). Some key logger could find out about my password for an exchange, and steal my BTC. Half a year ago I was the victim of credit card fraud, most likely because a key logger stole my card details.

2) Government lawsuits vs the exchanges, resulting in either confiscation of my BTC or resulting in a total ban of converting currency to BTC. Which would kill the value of BTC. I purchased a ledger device to avoid the scenario of FTX.

In order to optimize my chances of avoiding scenario 1, I think I need a new smartphone or laptop. Which will be used strictly for management of crypto.

Is a laptop better than a smartphone? Does it need to have specific characteristics?
Am I missing some things?

[1714484521]

1714484521

[1714484521]

1714484521

[1714484521]

1714484521

[1714484521]

1714484521

[hosseinimr93]

If you want to be completely secure, your separate device should be airgapped. In this way, you can be sure that there wouldn't be any way for hackers to get access to your wallet. Otherwise, your wallet would be always prone to hacking. Also make sure that you use a open-source trustworthy wallet which gives you full access to your keys.
In the case you can't have an air-gapped device for any reason, you can consider using a hardware wallet.

[WeThePe0ple]

If you want to be completely secure, your separate device should be airgapped. In this way, you can be sure that there wouldn't be any way for hackers to get access to your wallet. Otherwise, your wallet would be always prone to hacking. Also make sure that you use a open-source trustworthy wallet which gives you full access to your keys.
In the case you can't have an air-gapped device for any reason, you can consider using a hardware wallet.

Could you give any specific examples? And what is the cost?

I purchased a nano ledger x. It's unopened at this point. Pretty painful to throw it in the garbage bin.

[BitMaxz]

Could you give any specific examples? And what is the cost?

I purchased a nano ledger x. It's unopened at this point. Pretty painful to throw it in the garbage bin.

Ledger Nano X is fine but the only problem with this wallet it is a close source.

What he means about airgap is it means the other device should be totally disconnected from the internet or an offline device which is only used for signing a transaction but since you already have a hardware wallet you don't need an offline device because you can sign the transaction through the hardware wallet that acts as an offline device like ledger nano x.

[logfiles]

So long as the device isn't used to access the internet that can increase the chances of malware exposure, it should be fine. I have a preference for a laptop, as you can run an OS like Ubuntu directly from a USB stick or DVD if you plan to perform some transactions. Since you already have a hardware wallet, that's a good start.

2) Government lawsuits vs the exchanges, resulting in either confiscation of my BTC or resulting in a total ban of converting currency to BTC. Which would kill the value of BTC. I purchased a ledger device to avoid the scenario of FTX.

You can always use decentralized p2p exchanges like bisq to convert your bitcoins. So worry not.

[o_e_l_e_o]

In order to optimize my chances of avoiding scenario 1, I think I need a new smartphone or laptop. Which will be used strictly for management of crypto.

Is a laptop better than a smartphone? Does it need to have specific characteristics?
Am I missing some things?

The suggestions above regarding having an airgapped device are good suggestions if you are planning to store your bitcoin on a wallet on that device. It sounds like you are not planning to do that, since you have bought a Ledger hardware wallet.

Given that your bitcoin will be safely stored on your Ledger, then having an airgapped computer doesn't really add anything to this set up. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you will be using this computer to actually buy the bitcoin and send it to your hardware wallet? In that case, that computer cannot be airgapped - obviously it will need an internet connection in order to interact with an exchange or another person in order to purchase the bitcoin.

If that's the case then yes, it is good idea to have a clean computer which you only use for bitcoin and not for daily browsing or anything else, since this will minimize the risk of downloading malware. Personally, I would use a laptop, format it, and install a Linux distro of your choice on it rather than a closed source spyware OS like Windows. If you've never used Linux before, then a distro like Linux Mint is a good place to start.

[WeThePe0ple]

In order to optimize my chances of avoiding scenario 1, I think I need a new smartphone or laptop. Which will be used strictly for management of crypto.

Is a laptop better than a smartphone? Does it need to have specific characteristics?
Am I missing some things?

The suggestions above regarding having an airgapped device are good suggestions if you are planning to store your bitcoin on a wallet on that device. It sounds like you are not planning to do that, since you have bought a Ledger hardware wallet.

Given that your bitcoin will be safely stored on your Ledger, then having an airgapped computer doesn't really add anything to this set up. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you will be using this computer to actually buy the bitcoin and send it to your hardware wallet? In that case, that computer cannot be airgapped - obviously it will need an internet connection in order to interact with an exchange or another person in order to purchase the bitcoin.

I don't see how there is an other option to buy BTC. For this purchase we are all exposed to the internet.

The laptop I am using at this point (MacBook) is about 7 years old. I am going to need a new one anyway. So in that regard I can buy a new one.
However it will be necessary for postgraduation courses and it will be exposed to the internet. That is not safe.

Also, about 6 months ago I was the victim of online credit card fraud on my current laptop. I had made 1 payment with a visa card online. A hacker has gotten to my card details and made a payment with my visa card in a foreign country. Insurance paid it back to me.

So this laptop is not safe and I don't know if any other laptop is safe when my email address linked to the exchange is the same one.
I have installed malwarebytes but it did not find any breaches when I ran it.

Buying a new Macbook just for managing 1 BTC is very expensive. And I would need a second one for work anyway.
So I considered buying 1 new laptop for work, and 1 new smartphone just for purchasing BTC. I'm not planning on trading a lot.

Please let me know if this scenario is unsafe:

I buy a new smartphone (for example Samsung) just to purchase BTC. Most likely in incremental amounts to test it.
When I get to 1 BTC on the exchange, I transfer it to my ledger device via my smartphone which should not be exposed to malware as it is new.

I leave my BTC on the ledger and keep it hidden, along with the seedphrase. I'm planning on never typing the seed phrase on any laptop or smartphone so a key logger can't get a hold of it. I'm not planning to connect the ledger to the internet a lot. But at some point I will have to, right? For example to check the balance.
Or to convert it back to currency when I want to.

If BTC ever gets to a large value (above 10x) I can purchase an air gapped device to leave it on.
I have never used Linux and I am an internet safety noob. It is one of the main reasons why I have not invested in BTC earlier. I was worried that a hacker would eventually get a hold of my details.

If that's the case then yes, it is good idea to have a clean computer which you only use for bitcoin and not for daily browsing or anything else, since this will minimize the risk of downloading malware. Personally, I would use a laptop, format it, and install a Linux distro of your choice on it rather than a closed source spyware OS like Windows. If you've never used Linux before, then a distro like Linux Mint is a good place to start.

I am hoping that I can do these things with an affordable smartphone as well. But I have never used Linux and it makes me uncomfortable. 1 mistake and I am done

[o_e_l_e_o]

Buying a new Macbook just for managing 1 BTC is very expensive. And I would need a second one for work anyway.
So I considered buying 1 new laptop for work, and 1 new smartphone just for purchasing BTC. I'm not planning on trading a lot.

If you are going to be buying a new computer for work and education anyway, then after you have your new one up and running you could use your current one for bitcoin only. Simply format it and get a clean install of your OS on it first.

I buy a new smartphone (for example Samsung) just to purchase BTC. Most likely in incremental amounts to test it.
When I get to 1 BTC on the exchange, I transfer it to my ledger device via my smartphone which should not be exposed to malware as it is new.

If you would prefer to use a phone for this, then that's up to you. I wouldn't wait until you have 1 BTC on a centralized exchange before you transfer it out though. You can transfer it in smaller amounts incrementally to your Ledger. You'll pay a little more in fees, but it's worth it for not having to store your BTC long term on a centralized exchange while you wait to accumulate enough. Also less risk of losing everything if you make a mistake with one transfer if you are transferring smaller amounts repeatedly rather than all at once.

I'm not planning to connect the ledger to the internet a lot. But at some point I will have to, right? For example to check the balance.

Correct. You'll need to hook up your Ledger to your computer when you first initialize it in order to download the latest firmware and the bitcoin app software, and you'll need to hook it up any time you want to spend coins from it. You don't have to connect it just to view the balance on your addresses, however.

[Zoomic]

Buying a new Macbook just for managing 1 BTC is very expensive. And I would need a second one for work anyway.
So I considered buying 1 new laptop for work, and 1 new smartphone just for purchasing BTC. I'm not planning on trading a lot.

If you are going to be buying a new computer for work and education anyway, then after you have your new one up and running you could use your current one for bitcoin only. Simply format it and get a clean install of your OS on it first.

Saying about getting an airgapped device...
Is one automatically exposed to risk of hack and malware when they are connected to the internet?
I think one needs to visit some malicious sites, click random links or share private information before they could be hacked.
I have a backup phone I use for only my wallets and I have my mobile wallet there. I only go online with it to search information or visit my social media handle. I do not click links and I do not install any other things in the phone.
Am I still at risk?
I believe something points the attention of hackers to my device and if I avoid those things that point their attention to my device I am safe.
Am I getting it totally wrong?

[dzungmobile]

Saying about getting an airgapped device...

[Guide] Secure air-gapped crypto wallet storage method
How to Install Tails OS on USB flash drive for Wallet Purpose

Airgapped wallets are good if you have specific devices fro that purpose.

I don't think we should arbitrarily careless connect our wallets to any device but Tail OS is an option for people who can not have own computers.

You can set up your multisign wallets to use even on your smartphone with small amount (not your 1 BTC) to use when you are hanging out, travelling but still have your bitcoins to use where you can find stores, services accept it locally.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Is one automatically exposed to risk of hack and malware when they are connected to the internet?

Yes.

I have a backup phone I use for only my wallets and I have my mobile wallet there. I only go online with it to search information or visit my social media handle. I do not click links and I do not install any other things in the phone.
Am I still at risk?

Yes.

Your risk is lower if you use the device for nothing except bitcoin, but the risk can only be removed by keeping the device permanently offline. Since you are still using that device to browse social media, use search engines, and visit the random sites that the search engine returns, then your risk is barely reduced, if it all.

[joniboini]

I believe something points the attention of hackers to my device and if I avoid those things that point their attention to my device I am safe.
Am I getting it totally wrong?

It is better to be safe than sorry. The price to pay is quite cheap compared to the uncertain risk you're facing if you regularly connect your device to the internet. At the end of the day, you can't guarantee that there won't be a new attack vector other than spamming links, phishing websites, etc. Heck, who knows some hackers could manage to hijack your DNS and use one or two exploits that allow them to control your device remotely without you noticing anything. Since you plan on holding for long-term anyway, why not make it as secure as possible?

[Zoomic]

I have a backup phone I use for only my wallets and I have my mobile wallet there. I only go online with it to search information or visit my social media handle. I do not click links and I do not install any other things in the phone.
Am I still at risk?

Yes.

Your risk is lower if you use the device for nothing except bitcoin, but the risk can only be removed by keeping the device permanently offline. Since you are still using that device to browse social media, use search engines, and visit the random sites that the search engine returns, then your risk is barely reduced, if it all.

Noted! Thank you.

Saying about getting an airgapped device...

[Guide] Secure air-gapped crypto wallet storage method
How to Install Tails OS on USB flash drive for Wallet Purpose

You can set up your multisign wallets to use even on your smartphone with small amount (not your 1 BTC) to use when you are hanging out, travelling but still have your bitcoins to use where you can find stores, services accept it locally.

I do not know how to do this. I want to learn this as I have gotten the theoretical knowledge. I have made a topic for this.

I believe something points the attention of hackers to my device and if I avoid those things that point their attention to my device I am safe.
Am I getting it totally wrong?

Since you plan on holding for long-term anyway, why not make it as secure as possible?

I am not an expert. I am learning how to do this. I trust the people here will help me.

[MainIbem]

Is a laptop better than a smartphone? Does it need to have specific characteristics?
Am I missing some things?

For security purpose i think laptop would be more preferable than smartphone, maybe will be more preserved and secured than just buying a new smartphone because phone may likely got stolen or easily accessed by friends and relatives. So the best option is to get a new laptop and keep it out of the reach of everyone but strictly for you and anything related investment maybe cryptocurrency at large.
You don't have to store your funds in an exchange due to what happened and you only keep your funds were you could have full control over your asset.

[WeThePe0ple]

Ledger Nano X is fine but the only problem with this wallet it is a close source.

Does this mean that in case of an attack of the banks on crypto, they can take down ledger and therefore my BTC?

I really expect a war of the banks vs the exchanges and I need to secure my crypto in the best possible way

[o_e_l_e_o]

Does this mean that in case of an attack of the banks on crypto, they can take down ledger and therefore my BTC?

No. Even if they take down Ledger the company, the coins on your hardware wallet will remain safe. And even if the Ledger servers all get taken offline and their software no longer works, you can pair your hardware wallet with many different pieces of wallet software, such as Electrum, in order to still access your coins. And if your physical hardware wallet is damaged, broken, lost, etc., then you can recover your bitcoin by recovering from your seed phrase.

[WeThePe0ple]

Is a laptop better than a smartphone? Does it need to have specific characteristics?
Am I missing some things?

For security purpose i think laptop would be more preferable than smartphone, maybe will be more preserved and secured than just buying a new smartphone because phone may likely got stolen or easily accessed by friends and relatives.

I took everything into consideration and the new laptop is on its way.
The current one (history with malware and even 1x online credit card fraud) is 7 years old anyway.
I will use the new one strictly for purchasing crypto and running ledger live.

I will keep using the old laptop for browsing as long as it lives.
If it breaks down in 2025 and all of my crypto assets are on a coldwallet, I can use the new laptop for browsing (correct me if I am wrong)

[Little Mouse]

Does this mean that in case of an attack of the banks on crypto, they can take down ledger and therefore my BTC?

No. Taking down ledger doesn't mean they have access to your Bitcoin. You will have a seed key when you will create the wallet and you can import the seed key in Trezor too. You just need to store your seed key secretly and safely. You can access the fund with a lot of other wallet if they support importing wallet from seed key. There's nothing much to worry about this.

No. Even if they take down Ledger the company, the coins on your hardware wallet will remain safe. And even if the Ledger servers all get taken offline and their software no longer works, you can pair your hardware wallet with many different pieces of wallet software, such as Electrum, in order to still access your coins. And if your physical hardware wallet is damaged, broken, lost, etc., then you can recover your bitcoin by recovering from your seed phrase.

You beat me lol. Just getting curious about whether the seed key has a different format or something like that and any compatibility issue with other wallets. If yes, how would we be sure when should we use which wallet?

[WeThePe0ple]

Saying about getting an airgapped device...
Is one automatically exposed to risk of hack and malware when they are connected to the internet?
I think one needs to visit some malicious sites, click random links or share private information before they could be hacked.
I have a backup phone I use for only my wallets and I have my mobile wallet there. I only go online with it to search information or visit my social media handle. I do not click links and I do not install any other things in the phone.
Am I still at risk?
I believe something points the attention of hackers to my device and if I avoid those things that point their attention to my device I am safe.
Am I getting it totally wrong?

I am not sure but from my experience I think you are wrong.
I don't open weird emails either and it still looks like I was a victim of some sort of hack. You could be browsing on any normal website, click on "play" of any video you wish to see, have a pop up appear and it is already too late.

I keep getting calls from foreign countries. Random people who seem to have my phone nr. This has been happening for a while. Obviously I do not answer.

A few months ago when Roger Federer retired from tennis, I commented on facebook that I would like to attend his last game. I did this with a fake account that is not linked to my real name. Half an hour later I received a phonecall from the UK where that game was played (I do not live there) and the day after I got 2 more. So somehow people on the dark web can even link a fake facebook account to my real name and my real phone number. I'm not an expert but I assume this is based on the IP address being used by both accounts (the real FB account and the fake one)

A month prior to that someone had made a 1000 British pound payment in London with my visa card, that is inside my house and I had used exactly 1 time online. No details were shared with anyone. I was a whole battle with the insurance company to get it back. I had done nothing wrong.
So no I do not feel safe online.

With regards to hackers, I believe that one of the most important safety measures is to make sure that NOBODY knows you invested in BTC or ETH.
Eventually if the word speads, it will catch the attention of bad people. I don't know what they can do to your internet connection, but I believe they have options just by knowing your name and address.

To get a better idea, this website allows you to enter your email address and immediately tells you if there have been security breaches https://haveibeenpwned.com/
Mine has 10 of them, and it also says when and where it happened

[o_e_l_e_o]

Just getting curious about whether the seed key has a different format or something like that and any compatibility issue with other wallets.

No issues. Ledger devices use a BIP39 seed phrase, as do almost all current hardware and software wallets. You will have no trouble importing it elsewhere if you need to.

Just note that you should only do this in the situation where your hardware wallet is lost, damaged, broken, etc. Importing your seed phrase in to another wallet is risky, and has the potential to negate all the protection your hardware wallet provides.