save seed phrase in song.

[Zoomic]

I had written down and saved my seed phrase before now. But after I asked questions about SegWit wallet and knew its importance. I decided to practice it. Little Mouse and o_e_l_e_o guided me. Although I didn't do it excellently but I'll get it well when I'm with both of my devices.

But after setting up electrum on both my devices, including the trust wallet phrase I had already,  I now have 3 different key phrases to safely guide. It is now a burden to me to write the three down and keep all in the same place. What if there is a problem with one, all would also be affected.

Then, I came up with this weird idea of teaching kids around me a song that they will sing. I am a friend to many kids. They come around and read their poems for me and lots more.
How about if I form a song with my seed phrase and teach them to learn it and sing always. That could solve my problem.

The kids surely don't know about seed phrases
And the people around wouldn't have a clue of what is happening.
This could be a good way to save my seed phrase since it is not advisable to memorise it. Besides, all the kids memories cannot fail simultaneously.

Example of seed phrase:
Empty Damage Second Fault
Vibrant Find Food Joy
Ocean Name Nature Noodles

Example of Seed phrase song. With the seed phrase words repeated twice x2 in the song to emphasis them.

An empty brain will damage your thinking faculty in a second.   Fault no man, be vibrant and find good food. Your joy will flow like the ocean and your  name will sound like nature when you eat noodles .

Happy read and how is the idea, weird I think??

[o_e_l_e_o]

No offense, but that's an awful idea.

You shouldn't trust your own memory to remember a seed phrase; you definitely shouldn't trust the memory of a child. Easy for them to mix up a few words and then you've lost access. Also, what will you do when the children stop visiting?

Secondly, you have no idea just how many people will hear them repeat the song. They might go around singing it in public, on a bus, on the street, etc. Simply hoping that no one realizes it is a seed phrase is a recipe for disaster.

You should write them down and find three different secure places to hide them. Even if you hide all three together, this will still be significantly more secure than teaching your seed phrases to a bunch of children.

[BIT-BENDER]

Firstly if you aren’t the children legal teacher or someone employed by the parent to handle those children I would say you exploiting the children to your own benefit which if I am the parent I would definitely not be cool with it.

Children are good are repetition and cramming song to an extent that’s true but they aren’t good in keeping secrets and definitely would tell their family when asked and a weird song that no one has had of would raise suspicion and the range of words can trigger someone who into crypto (which is now widely spread) to understand that it could be a seed phrase.
If you are putting you recollecting you seed phrase in the hands of kids by giving them a poem that also contains other words, what are your chances of knowing which words are actually your seed phrase?

Regardless it’s wrong using children that way especially when they aren’t yours.

[CryptoHeadlineNews]

I now have 3 different key phrases to safely guide. It is now a burden to me to write the three down and keep all in the same place. What if there is a problem with one, all would also be affected.

Just an ordinary 3 seed phrase you could manage to create and yet here you are complaining about burden? So what will people who have 5 and above then say if I may ask? I see no reason why you @ O.P should be worried about here in as much as you can indicate which seed phrase belongs to which wallet, and everything is solved as that can be written either on the same paper or different papers and still stored at the same spot, in as much as it's safe and secure

Then, I came up with this weird idea of teaching kids around me a song that they will sing. I am a friend to many kids. They come around and read their poems for me and lots more.
How about if I form a song with my seed phrase and teach them to learn it and sing always. That could solve my problem.

So of what benefits will this be to the kids you intend to teach this kind of awful song? Because if you don't mind, I think this is one of the funniest statement I have ever heard since the beginning of this new year 2023.

[Zoomic]

No offense, but that's an awful idea.

It's Well noted, after due consideration, the idea may be discarded.

You shouldn't trust your own memory to remember a seed phrase; you definitely shouldn't trust the memory of a child. Easy for them to mix up a few words and then you've lost access. Also, what will you do when the children stop visiting?

In this case I am not dealing with a child but children.  And there is no how all the children will mix up the words at same time.
If they stopped visiting or let's say they grow old, by then the song would have sink into myown head also.
The idea that the song may become viral is a concern. Even if the immediate people don't understand, maybe the people of the future will decode.

You should write them down and find three different secure places to hide them. Even if you hide all three together, this will still be significantly more secure than teaching your seed phrases to a bunch of children.

Noted with thanks...

Just an ordinary 3 seed phrase you could manage to create and yet here you are complaining about burden? So what will people who have 5 and above then say if I may ask?

You, do you own upto 5 wallet addresses and saved their phrases very well?
If I may ask, what do you do with 5 wallet addresses? Do you even understand what I meant by burden or you just jumped into the conversation

Firstly if you aren’t the children legal teacher or someone employed by the parent to handle those children I would say you exploiting the children to your own benefit which if I am the parent I would definitely not be cool with it.

I do not understand how exploitation came in, if you read my post well,  I think I explained the relationship between myself and the kids.
No body exploits kids without the law taking its place.

[acroman08]

just for fun, instead of creating a song out of it, try creating a poem, I feel like a poem would be more suitable. anyway, I very much agree with what o_e_l_e_o has said, it would be far better to just write them down, make copies of them then securely hide them.

[hatshepsut93]

The kids surely don't know about seed phrases
And the people around wouldn't have a clue of what is happening.
This could be a good way to save my seed phrase since it is not advisable to memorise it. Besides, all the kids memories cannot fail simultaneously.

They don't know about it now, but they might figure it out in the future. They might look up Bitcoin, how it's stored, learn about seeds and then put two and two together and realize that you made them memorize one.

Similarly, other people might notice the weird structure of the song and realize it's a seed.

Maybe the memories can't fail simultaneously, but they can all fail with time. If they won't frequently repeat it, they will forget it, the change of it happening in the long run is quite high.

[virasog]

The kids surely don't know about seed phrases
And the people around wouldn't have a clue of what is happening.
This could be a good way to save my seed phrase since it is not advisable to memorise it. Besides, all the kids memories cannot fail simultaneously.

Why do you want to make things complicated when you can just write your seed phrases on a piece of paper and save two or more copies of it at different places?
When you memorize children with your seed phrases, you never know if those kids will reproduce that song to their friends and to the general public. For sure someone may be clever to find a certain pattern on the poem and try their luck.

Do not trust your own memory or anyone's memory on seed phrases. One thing which you MUST understand about memory is that the memory to remember certain words only remain intact if you repeat them daily. If you stop respecting those seed phrases daily, the memory will start to fade out and eventually you will forget the phrases.

[BIT-BENDER]

I do not understand how exploitation came in, if you read my post well,  I think I explained the relationship between myself and the kids.
No body exploits kids without the law taking its place.

You don’t understand me mate I get the part you said you are close to the children but still if you are teaching them a poem which obviously isn’t something anyone is used to then I believe the parent has the right to know about it.

And I don’t think you would be telling the parent you made up a poem with some reminders on your seed phrase then teaching their kids the poem so they can learn it and keep reminding you.

Also what if you are a long term holders and knowing how kids grow fast how can you be in control of the kids memory for a long time? And also they can relocate or some other things, I generally feel it won’t work even if your intentions aren’t negative.

[Cantsay]

I wouldn't advice anyone to save their secret phrases by composing a song or whatever it is that you did here, I remember back then when I newly came to the forum I used to shuffle some words in my phrases before i stored them and I thought it provided more security to my wallet but it turned out to be more dangerous and risky than it looks; like for example if I should forget the pattern of my shuffling it means my wallet is gone and same also goes with you writing a song to save your private key, sorry secret phrase.

An empty brain will damage your thinking faculty in a second.   Fault no man, be vibrant and find good food. Your joy will flow like the ocean and your   name will sound like nature when you eat noodles

And I believe this is even more risky than the one I did, because now you're not only shuffling you're adding more words to you secret phrases and what exactly are you goiog to do if the words you chose turns out to be a BIP-39 word and then you forget your pattern also? All those words in red are BIP-39 words so what will you do if you should mistake any of your secret phrases for them? Here's Electrum's own; https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/blob/master/electrum/wordlist/english.txt

Just as @o_e_l_e_o said, it's better to write your phrases to keep your secret phrases in multiple safe location than to start looking for a way to encrypt it.

[Mr.right85]

I would say everyone has got what works for him or her. Perhaps you think the lyrics to recall would stock and you wouldn't forget in the passing years of your lifetime, then you might as well go with it OP. Just remember, forget one lyric and your coins are all gone.

Not your seed, not your coins.

Am not comfortable with the idea of putting my seed in some lyric to a song. I've been into some songs in the course of my life, sang them through most hours of my day and they was an interesting once two, had great melody and rhythm but, it does skip me some times. That's not a risk am ready to putoney on. Be good!

[Husires]

Memory is the worst thing for preserving the seeds due to the high sensitivity of the seeds to the words and their arrangement, as remembering all the seeds, but without knowing the order, means that you may not be able to recover your money, and therefore if you lose a line or two from the song, you lost your words.

if you remember the 12 words, but without the right or wrong order, you will get a worse scenario of 12! = 479,001,600
So far, I have not talked about the possibility that one of the words is wrong or forgotten.

Write the seeds on fire-resistant paper or metal.

[tech30338]

I had written down and saved my seed phrase before now. But after I asked questions about SegWit wallet and knew its importance. I decided to practice it. Little Mouse and o_e_l_e_o guided me. Although I didn't do it excellently but I'll get it well when I'm with both of my devices.

But after setting up electrum on both my devices, including the trust wallet phrase I had already,  I now have 3 different key phrases to safely guide. It is now a burden to me to write the three down and keep all in the same place. What if there is a problem with one, all would also be affected.

Then, I came up with this weird idea of teaching kids around me a song that they will sing. I am a friend to many kids. They come around and read their poems for me and lots more.
How about if I form a song with my seed phrase and teach them to learn it and sing always. That could solve my problem.

The kids surely don't know about seed phrases
And the people around wouldn't have a clue of what is happening.
This could be a good way to save my seed phrase since it is not advisable to memorise it. Besides, all the kids memories cannot fail simultaneously.

Example of seed phrase:
Empty Damage Second Fault
Vibrant Find Food Joy
Ocean Name Nature Noodles

Example of Seed phrase song. With the seed phrase words repeated twice x2 in the song to emphasis them.

An empty brain will damage your thinking faculty in a second.   Fault no man, be vibrant and find good food. Your joy will flow like the ocean and your  name will sound like nature when you eat noodles .

Happy read and how is the idea, weird I think??

great idea but what if by accident you forget which is which, for personal preference like you it would be okay, but for the rest of us like newbies, I won't recommend that idea, I would suggest to write it in a piece of paper 2 copies in different place, or if you can make it secure its better, don't make things complicated, if you can make it in an easy and secure, safe way, but commending creativity for thinking outside the box.

[Darker45]

That's an amusing and novel idea on how to save a seed phrase, but I don't think that's an effective way.

The problem remains, that memory is not reliable in terms of keeping your seed phrase safe. If you have children memorize a song, how long would they remember that song? How long would they be singing that song? If we forget popular nursery rhymes, how much more a song that isn't popular, that you can't even hear on the radio or search on Spotify or YouTube? Perhaps it would be effective if you manage to make your song a classic, which I honestly doubt.

Just write them down clearly. Keep several copies. Hide them in different inconspicuous locations. And you might also want to consider metal seed phrase storage.

[OcTradism]

People can save their seed phrase in a book too. It is their choice and they are free to do that method but I don't.

I don't think if you complicate your method to store your seed phrase is good enough to secure it. If you store it in a book and leaves the book on your table, is it safe?

Is it safe if you hide it in your song and leave the song lyrics on your table?

I would like to keep it simple as it should be, a seed phrase but I store it safely and securely enough. It is enough for my backup method.

Splitting your seed phrase is bad idea too.
Bitcoin Q&A: Why is Seed Splitting a Bad Idea?

[Beparanf]

Instead on making it too complicated like a shitty kid song lyrics that doesn’t make sense why not invest on titanium plate like this one https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3318725.0 and store it on safe place.

Giving a task to a children is bullshit especially if the song they are gonna sing is not a norm. We are talking about money here and you should not involved minors on safe keeping your keys. You should invest on it to make it safer and not reliable to someone that doesn’t know anything about it.

[Luffygroove]

First, Oh my God what an effort. Second, it's interesting but highly risky. Third, try another better option. Because, dude. It's only you who really know about the seed phrase right? That song is consist of many words not only just the phrase, what if it's replaced by the other words? then how many years those kids could remember about the song? or how many years until they still care about the song? kids are fastly grown up and they will have their own things to do soon. No, no. This is not right, the children is not an object you could exploit anytime you want. Try another way, dude. 

[Merit.s]

I was smiling as I was reading your post, and am still smiling right now because it is very funny. Nice one mate, you came up with an idea here. You only have three wallets, and you are confused on how to keep your seed phrase save. Gosh,you shouldn't keep all the three in the same place,if not whatever happens to one happens to all. Make duplicates of three copies each and put in three different location that is safe maybe one in your house and two somewhere else but very safe. So that if something happens to any of them,you still have two more back ups. Save yourself the stress of teaching those kids a way to publicize your seed phrase which should be your privacy. What if all the kids disappear like thin air into the sky, it means that your seed phrase has disappeared with them.

[yudi09]

-snip-

Happy read and how is the idea, weird I think??

I think it sounds weird too

Each song contains its own value or message. If a song whose lyrics all contain your seed phrase becomes a hit like a famous singer's song that will be memorized by all circles, there will definitely be a risk that the meaning of the song's lyrics will be discovered.

Can it be famous or viral? Can.
Just look at how a busker on the bus suddenly went viral because of a song he was singing with the aim of entertaining passengers.
To me that's not a great idea.
We also have to think about our memory, which will start to decrease in memory every time we get older or at some point without us wanting an accident to occur which makes it difficult for us to remember something.

But I appreciate that you have been as creative as possible in trying to secure the seed phrases.
Just keep it in metal that has passed its trial period in the event of a fire instead of having the firefighters arrive late on site.

[Zoomic]

An empty brain will damage your thinking faculty in a second.   Fault no man, be vibrant and find good food. Your joy will flow like the ocean and your  name will sound like nature when you eat noodles

And I believe this is even more risky than the one I did, because now you're not only shuffling you're adding more words to you secret phrases and what exactly are you goiog to do if the words you chose turns out to be a BIP-39 word and then you forget your pattern also? All those words in red are BIP-39 words so what will you do if you should mistake any of your secret phrases for them? Here's Electrum's own; https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/blob/master/electrum/wordlist/english.txt

If you observe very well, the added words does not re-arrange the seed phrase and neither do they interfere. The bolded words are the seed words and in the song they are repeated twice to emphasis that it is part of the phrase. I don't know if you understand me.

just for fun, instead of creating a song out of it, try creating a poem, I feel like a poem would be more suitable.

Nice idea there! Just for fun as you said...

But I am glad people reacted differently and atleast some people smiled at my idea and that is a big plus.

I was smiling as I was reading your post, and am still smiling right now because it is very funny. Nice one mate, you came up with an idea here.

I am glad that this made you smile mate.

This is an idea, even if it is ineffective now, I know there is a room for refining the idea. Even if it takes me to go studio sing the song myself and code in the seed phrase 

That's an amusing and novel idea on how to save a seed phrase, but I don't think that's an effective way.

It's really amusing and that's why I called it weird. For now the idea is ineffective and can be subjected to further refining