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Author Topic: What will a mixer do under the mentioned situation?  (Read 275 times)
smyslov
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May 02, 2023, 11:43:10 AM
 #21



1. Do mixers know where they're getting a deposit from?
2. If yes, will they co-operate here with the officials and let them know about the deposit?
3. If they do, how will they stop the scammer from moving his funds out of their mixer?

There is a lot of mixing companies now but I doubt they will have the same answers to these questions, soI will just speculate because all the answers given here are not officially coming from the mixers team

Quote
1. Do mixers know where they're getting a deposit from?
There are mixers where the mixing is all automated and there are mixers where they can trace the addresses before they get into the pool

Quote
2. If yes, will they co-operate here with the officials and let them know about the deposit?
They serve their clients and they are not regulated to have an obligation to any entities or authorities because there is none on their TOS that says what kind of funds or clients will their mixers accept, this is not an exchange where clients are subject for verification

Quote
3. If they do, how will they stop the scammer from moving his funds out of their mixer?
They may or they may not it will depend on how they will address this issue when they are called up and prosecuted.
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May 02, 2023, 05:08:10 PM
 #22

We all know about hacks, scams, password leaks and all the shit that's happening in the crypto world and we also see lots of scammers using mixers to eradicate the possibility of them being caught at all (though there are traces, but using mixer saves these scammers at the least, not intentionally).

Now, let's say that a hack happened some day at some exchange for about $300 million (or even $3 million, just e.g.), and the exchange immediately opens up about the hack. For a second, just think that the scammer keeps the coins in his wallet and doesn't move them for some time, however FBI and other major authorities are aware of this hack and they give orders to mixers that if a specific address is provided to the mixers (if they know exactly on which address the hacker has kept the coins), and they ask them to immediately report them about the same, then let me ask some questions:

1. Do mixers know where they're getting a deposit from?
2. If yes, will they co-operate here with the officials and let them know about the deposit?
3. If they do, how will they stop the scammer from moving his funds out of their mixer?

Generally hackers will try to cash out the stolen funds as soon as possible because they know that more longer they keep then it eill be harder for them to convert.

But as you said if there is such situation then the mixer has to manually blacklist any transactions coming from the listed address so they won't get into any trouble.
 
They're not really supposed to answerable to authorities but if they do when they feel that is the right thing then it can change the face of mixers from only funds mixed here are coming from illicit activities to they're here to give better privacy to individual and not to help the scammers.

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May 03, 2023, 03:02:55 AM
 #23

We all know about hacks, scams, password leaks and all the shit that's happening in the crypto world and we also see lots of scammers using mixers to eradicate the possibility of them being caught at all (though there are traces, but using mixer saves these scammers at the least, not intentionally).

Now, let's say that a hack happened some day at some exchange for about $300 million (or even $3 million, just e.g.), and the exchange immediately opens up about the hack. For a second, just think that the scammer keeps the coins in his wallet and doesn't move them for some time, however FBI and other major authorities are aware of this hack and they give orders to mixers that if a specific address is provided to the mixers (if they know exactly on which address the hacker has kept the coins), and they ask them to immediately report them about the same, then let me ask some questions:

1. Do mixers know where they're getting a deposit from?
2. If yes, will they co-operate here with the officials and let them know about the deposit?
3. If they do, how will they stop the scammer from moving his funds out of their mixer?

Let's suppose a hacker is reading this. What will be his course of action now. Since the Authorities have asked mixers to keep an eye on this address and do not entertain any request of mixing from this address, the hacker can easily create one or more brand new bitcoin addresses and move the funds to those newly created address. Then he can move the coins from that address to the mixers and mix the coin without any issues.

Secondly, no government have officially allowed to operate the mixers and therefore they have no legal right to dictate the mixers on what to do and what not to do.

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May 03, 2023, 06:44:36 AM
 #24

Let's suppose a hacker is reading this. What will be his course of action now. Since the Authorities have asked mixers to keep an eye on this address and do not entertain any request of mixing from this address, the hacker can easily create one or more brand new bitcoin addresses and move the funds to those newly created address. Then he can move the coins from that address to the mixers and mix the coin without any issues.

Secondly, no government have officially allowed to operate the mixers and therefore they have no legal right to dictate the mixers on what to do and what not to do.
There's a proof if the website has been hacked since the hacker is leaving his trace e.g. unauthorized connection and device, DDOS attack, regain access, changing password etc. Obviously the developer can create such drama, but it's matter of the government to trust the mixer claim or not.

Even there's no official laws and regulations for mixer, but we all know government always fight against of privacy and money laundering matter. It's just a matter of time mixer will be more regulated or they will ban all mixers.
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May 03, 2023, 10:40:20 AM
 #25



Even there's no official laws and regulations for mixer, but we all know government always fight against of privacy and money laundering matter. It's just a matter of time mixer will be more regulated or they will ban all mixers.

That's possible the government has been employing If You can't fight em join em tactics so they can control, make a profit and regulate, so it's possible that they will impose regulation on these mixers, Cryptocurrency community fight for privacy will go on and mixing business are here to stay so it's possible, or they will keep on chasing these mixers and Crypto holders will keep on looking and using for mixers to anonymize their coins.

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May 03, 2023, 11:03:21 AM
 #26

Let's suppose a hacker is reading this. What will be his course of action now. Since the Authorities have asked mixers to keep an eye on this address and do not entertain any request of mixing from this address, the hacker can easily create one or more brand new bitcoin addresses and move the funds to those newly created address. Then he can move the coins from that address to the mixers and mix the coin without any issues.

I'm not talking here about an already hacked scenario, but whenever such an incident takes place and the higher authorities immediately start contacting the mixers and if the mixers are, at all, interested in helping them out by stopping the mixing of the coins from the hack and return them to where they belong. I know nobody would use them if they do this, but isn't it good to stop the bad before it becomes worst?

Quote
Secondly, no government have officially allowed to operate the mixers and therefore they have no legal right to dictate the mixers on what to do and what not to do.

I never said that any mixer is allowed to operate legally and that nobody can tell the mixers what to be done and what not, but does that mean that the government officials can't even try to contact these mixers to at least try their 0.01% chance at stopping the scammer from completing his crime and get away with the money as well?

Anybody here who thinks that using monero is the only option that is left for the scammer, then I believe that even for that option to become available for him, he first needs to settle his Bitcoins either through mixing or OTC and nobody would be able to complete a $300 million deal in one go (there's a chance that even the scammer gets scammed here) and if he goes through a mixer, I believe that a mixer may take some steps to stop this person.

Now, those talking about creating various new Bitcoin addresses and moving the coins there, every single transaction can be traced easily.

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May 03, 2023, 02:03:29 PM
 #27

We all know about hacks, scams, password leaks and all the shit that's happening in the crypto world and we also see lots of scammers using mixers to eradicate the possibility of them being caught at all (though there are traces, but using mixer saves these scammers at the least, not intentionally).

Now, let's say that a hack happened some day at some exchange for about $300 million (or even $3 million, just e.g.), and the exchange immediately opens up about the hack. For a second, just think that the scammer keeps the coins in his wallet and doesn't move them for some time, however FBI and other major authorities are aware of this hack and they give orders to mixers that if a specific address is provided to the mixers (if they know exactly on which address the hacker has kept the coins), and they ask them to immediately report them about the same, then let me ask some questions:

1. Do mixers know where they're getting a deposit from?
2. If yes, will they co-operate here with the officials and let them know about the deposit?
3. If they do, how will they stop the scammer from moving his funds out of their mixer?
Mixers aren't registered company. How can any government be sure that mixer companies have received their email? Also, what if mixers just ignore that email and say that by the time they read their email, coins were already mixed and they couldn't do anything? This situation is a joke man. If you are a mixer, you are a mixer or otherwise you are a fraud.

By the way, I asked similar question to Whirlwind owner, his response wasn't comprehensive but I think it's still worth to quote his answer on my question:
Having said all of the above as far as I'm concerned I am not doing anything illegal. I don't encourage illegal activity and will never promote the service on the darknet or for any illegal purposes, I'm a simple provider of privacy services. There are no statistics regarding % of CEX funds coming from illicit sources so we can't compare to what we know about mixers, but my guess is that the number is very similar if not higher for centralized exchanges. There are bad actors in every industry, you can't just shut down all businesses of one type because of a few bad apples. If the service will start to get seriously abused by bad actors and big pressure will be put on us then I'd much rather shut down the service early and honorably than put users funds and privacy at risk, but for now I still believe there has to be a way to run everything legally.
Thank you for your responses, hope you don't mind if I ask you some deep questions:
1. Do you do something or plan to do something to prevent abuse of your service? I mean to minimize it cause nothing is totally preventable. There are people who care about their privacy and there are people who want to do illegal things, do you have a plan to make your service unlikeable for the people who do illegal things? To get rid of them. Do you think are there any measurements that you can take while keep your service functional for people who care about their privacy?
I know this question can sound strange but it's still an interesting one. More likely I mean, you may be able to get list of addresses that are known to be found in illegal activities and you may include these addresses in your blacklist to not be able to use your service.
1.I'm still trying to figure out if there is a way to do this, if I have any ideas I will write about them before I implement anything. Here is an idea I had, but we need the Blind Certificates in order for it to work. It would be possible to prove your funds are not coming from specific addresses without revealing which one your deposit actually is.

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May 03, 2023, 06:15:17 PM
 #28

Now, let's say that a hack happened some day at some exchange for about $300 million (or even $3 million, just e.g.), and the exchange immediately opens up about the hack. For a second, just think that the scammer keeps the coins in his wallet and doesn't move them for some time, however FBI and other major authorities are aware of this hack and they give orders to mixers that if a specific address is provided to the mixers (if they know exactly on which address the hacker has kept the coins), and they ask them to immediately report them about the same, then let me ask some questions:

1. Do mixers know where they're getting a deposit from?
2. If yes, will they co-operate here with the officials and let them know about the deposit?
3. If they do, how will they stop the scammer from moving his funds out of their mixer?

Firstly, hackers that are able to pull off such hacks aren't stupid, before the hacks get reported they must have already mixed the coin and transfer to other wallets then wait for the whole news to fade away before they start moving the coins or probably they would had traded them to privacy coins and held those in their wallet. But lets just say everything workout as you have said, what then stop the hackers from changing their wallet by splitting the coins between other different wallets since the previous wallets has already been identified and reported to the mixers and exchanges for them to stay on the look out for deposit from that particular address.

Unless there's some automatic means to detect any address that have interacted with the labelled address holding hacked coins then your suggestions won't be effective and the mixers can't identify were the coins are coming from. Mixer can know an address that coins are coming frim since they're centralized. Mixer can always cooperate with the government agency when they have a very strong case against them that they need their cooperation for lesser punishments although some mixers won't snitch on their customers and mixers can just freeze the account of the hackers or delay withdrawal for your last question.

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May 04, 2023, 12:04:05 AM
 #29

1. Do mixers know where they're getting a deposit from?
2. If yes, will they co-operate here with the officials and let them know about the deposit?
3. If they do, how will they stop the scammer from moving his funds out of their mixer?
Mixers with their current business model cannot continue because they need to provide high liquidity with small profits that come from service fees. If we take ChipMixer it worked on donations. However, when the site was sized, they had a wealth of money, which is an amount that is impossible for one person to own. Or that you get it from the profits.

What I am trying to say is that the mixing services are a front for a business and it is not necessarily illegal, but it exploits the money of depositors in mixing the money they have, and therefore it is more difficult to track, but it is an activity that needs high liquidity, which means a party that has a lot of surplus money.

That party may extend from a government to an illegal activity that wants to launder money.
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