'Attack on Bitcoin’ Claims Circulate as Transaction Fees Climb Higher

[Kakmakr]

Well, I say... let them burn their money, if they are doing this to sabotage Bitcoin. Let the miners do their thing and let the developers analyze this threat and implement their counter measures.

We should never forget that Bitcoin is still experimental ... we still need to figure out if the tx fees will be enough to reward the miners.. once the Block reward falls away.

It is just part of the evolution of this technology and ALL other tokens would have collapsed under an attack like this.... Bitcoin is still standing. 

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[pooya87]

Many Bitcoiners including me have been calling Ordinals an attack for nearly a year now and I have to say the fact that part of the Bitcoin community needed the fees to go up first before they could see Ordinals as it really is shows the community has still not reached complete maturity and I dare say some of them have not yet understood what bitcoin is.

A mature community would have been this concerned a year ago when the attack began by exploiting the protocol and when the attackers abused bitcoin blockchain by turning it into a cloud storage; not when fees went up and it started affecting them individually.

[tbct_mt2]

Many Bitcoiners including me have been calling Ordinals an attack for nearly a year now and I have to say the fact that part of the Bitcoin community needed the fees to go up first before they could see Ordinals as it really is shows the community has still not reached complete maturity and I dare say some of them have not yet understood what bitcoin is.

Your concern is valid and very insightful and Bitcoin community need more insightful people like you.

Things started four years ago with Taproot upgrade. I used to believe Taproot is something cool and helpful for Bitcoin users but the fact is opposite and it has been shown clearly in 2023.

Taproot is coming: What is it and how it will benefit Bitcoin?

I did not realize sooner that deploying smart contracts on Bitcoin blockchain will bring more issues for Bitcoin mempools and will seriously affect Bitcoin users.

A mature community would have been this concerned a year ago when the attack began by exploiting the protocol and when the attackers abused bitcoin blockchain by turning it into a cloud storage; not when fees went up and it started affecting them individually.

The problem now is diagnosed and one solution was proposed by LukeDashjr and Jack Dorsey but it was not supported massively because it will break one of strongest strength of Bitcoin blockchain: censorship-resistance.

[BenCodie]

Well, I say... let them burn their money, if they are doing this to sabotage Bitcoin. Let the miners do their thing and let the developers analyze this threat and implement their counter measures.

We should never forget that Bitcoin is still experimental ... we still need to figure out if the tx fees will be enough to reward the miners.. once the Block reward falls away.

It is just part of the evolution of this technology and ALL other tokens would have collapsed under an attack like this.... Bitcoin is still standing. 

Bitcoins are not burned after fees are paid. The fees go to miners.

That's where I ask you - what entities do you think are driving this activity on Ordinals. Do you think it's just crazy people? Or do you think they are interests who are in some way affiliated with miners?

I could not possibly believe for a second that all of this Bitcoin are being wasted on ordinals. I can only believe that the fees are in some way going back to those who are causing the issue. This is all that makes sense to me.

Many Bitcoiners including me have been calling Ordinals an attack for nearly a year now and I have to say the fact that part of the Bitcoin community needed the fees to go up first before they could see Ordinals as it really is shows the community has still not reached complete maturity and I dare say some of them have not yet understood what bitcoin is.

A mature community would have been this concerned a year ago when the attack began by exploiting the protocol and when the attackers abused bitcoin blockchain by turning it into a cloud storage; not when fees went up and it started affecting them individually.

That is right. Unfortunately though, that is human nature. People do not show any concern or care unless it is something that directly effects them. Sure, some people would have thrown a merit or raised a voice ot support the concerns of intelligent members like yourself who have foresight, however the rest of the forum may have just read and moved on...not paying attention that as a community and with consensus, these problems can be prevented.

It's a shame where we are now however now we have to find the solution.

[yazher]

Well, I say... let them burn their money, if they are doing this to sabotage Bitcoin. Let the miners do their thing and let the developers analyze this threat and implement their counter measures.
We should never forget that Bitcoin is still experimental ... we still need to figure out if the tx fees will be enough to reward the miners.. once the Block reward falls away.
It is just part of the evolution of this technology and ALL other tokens would have collapsed under an attack like this.... Bitcoin is still standing. 

No matter what they have done in the past, it's still futile and nothing they do to stop bitcoins from spreading has been fruitful to them, it only ended up in regret because instead of putting bitcoins in the people's blocklists, they became curious about it and ended up becoming investors like just like one of us. Let's just say, that whatever they think does not really define what the reality is, instead, they are just using every opportunity to confuse people and not all of them are fools because whenever they throw these kinds of FUDS people often look for real answers and end up here in this community getting enough answer they really wanted. We have improved a lot in the last 10 years and there will be many more improvements in the future, this is how should one of us think because we are one when it comes to this innovative financial revolution.

[Abiky]

Well, I say... let them burn their money, if they are doing this to sabotage Bitcoin. Let the miners do their thing and let the developers analyze this threat and implement their counter measures.

We should never forget that Bitcoin is still experimental ... we still need to figure out if the tx fees will be enough to reward the miners.. once the Block reward falls away.

It is just part of the evolution of this technology and ALL other tokens would have collapsed under an attack like this.... Bitcoin is still standing. 

Are you suggesting a hard fork? I'm pretty sure that's going to happen if developers decide to block Ordinals from the Blockchain. Miners will be running the original chain (with Ordinals), while the rest will be running the "filtered" chain. With fees increasing each day, it should only be a matter of time before this happens. Remember that users (businesses, individuals, etc) are the ones who make Bitcoin what it is right now. Not the miners. They only validate transactions but don't have full control over the network consensus.

We'd have to decide whenever we want fees to keep rising or all the other way around. Off-chain scaling methods (eg: Lightning Network) are experimental and not a long-term solution for the "scalability problem". Hopefully, everything will be back to normal soon. Maybe high fees will become a thing of the past?

[bbc.reporter]

It appears the writer of this news article does not read between the lines hehehee. Luke Dashjr did not capitulate on his criticism on Ordinals. What Ocean Mining is only doing is it will recommend 3 block templates for their miners and let them decide what they want to use. I speculate that this is only the beginning. Luke Dashjr might have a roadmap already created to minimize Ordinals' effect on fees.


Sarcastic Luke

Bitcoin developer Luke Dashjr fought the rise of Ordinals, which he called "spam," but now his mining pool is allowing them.

A prominent Bitcoin Core developer and Ordinals critic, Luke Dashjr, may have had a change of heart about the NFT-like assets. Or at the very least, his company is moving beyond his own hardline stance around Ordinals.

With the update, Ocean says, miners can choose from three block template policy options: Ocean Recommended, focusing on what the company calls “real” financial transactions with minimal spam; Bitcoin Core with the “Ordisrespector” spam filter; and the unmodified Bitcoin Core, mirroring other pools with fewer financial transactions but more “spam”—meaning Ordinals and BRC-20 token transactions.

Source https://decrypt.co/210662/bitcoin-ordinals-critic-caves-jack-dorsey-backed-ocean-mining-pool-flips-inscriptions

[takuma sato]

I don't know but the Bitcoin developer or the ordinal developer should figure this out or the fee will be this high for a long time.

There is no "Ordinals developer". There's only a bunch of people throwing programming shit at the wall to see what sticks.

As for bitcoin developers, well the default tendency is to do nothing, except for a small minority of them.

There's no easy way to undo ordinals at this point. You are going to need to gather enough capital and mining power involved to basically push for what would be a BTC hardfork without ordinals, and this would need to be done in a way that guarantees no future ordinals are possible, but then again, how do you this without causing another hardfork civil war, and how do you do it without getting rid of taproot? because if taproot is possible, I believe there could be ways around any restrictions put into ordinals to come up with alternatives.

[retreat]

I remember there were a number of Bitcoin supporters, even developers if I'm not mistaken, who brushed this Ordinals issue off when it was launched months ago saying it's not a big deal, that it will just die sooner rather than later, that they be allowed since they're paying fees for their transactions anyway, and so forth. Now, this issue has already escalated a lot and we seem to be taken back to step 1. Whether this now is a deliberate attack or not, bold steps should be taken. After all, it has already shaken the very core of Bitcoin. And I guess this transaction fee problem has not yet even reached its climax.

People who supported Ordinal at the beginning did not see that the emergence of this shitcoin could have a bad impact on the network. It's true that they pay fees for the transactions they make and the Bitcoin network is decentralized and can be used by everyone, but when one community annoys many people on the network with their shitcoins and empty dreams, shouldn't bitcoin devs take action against it? but as far as I can see no concrete steps have been taken, only empty talk to tell members to wait patiently for the network to return to normal.

[benalexis12]

Well, I say... let them burn their money, if they are doing this to sabotage Bitcoin. Let the miners do their thing and let the developers analyze this threat and implement their counter measures.

We should never forget that Bitcoin is still experimental ... we still need to figure out if the tx fees will be enough to reward the miners.. once the Block reward falls away.

It is just part of the evolution of this technology and ALL other tokens would have collapsed under an attack like this.... Bitcoin is still standing. 

Is Bitcoin still experimental after 13 years of existence in this field of business? What do you mean by this? A lot of money has been made here, and a lot of big companies have also invested, but I still can't see that it is still in the experiment with the value it has now.

It's just that the only thing that's not really okay is that the requested fee is inhumane and a lot of pain in the pocket to actually conduct a transaction here. If the developers would just fix this thing in the ordinals, there wouldn't be such a problem.

[TrustedBitcoiner]

I don't know but the Bitcoin developer or the ordinal developer should figure this out or the fee will be this high for a long time.

There is no "Ordinals developer". There's only a bunch of people throwing programming shit at the wall to see what sticks.

As for bitcoin developers, well the default tendency is to do nothing, except for a small minority of them.

There's no easy way to undo ordinals at this point. You are going to need to gather enough capital and mining power involved to basically push for what would be a BTC hardfork without ordinals, and this would need to be done in a way that guarantees no future ordinals are possible, but then again, how do you this without causing another hardfork civil war, and how do you do it without getting rid of taproot? because if taproot is possible, I believe there could be ways around any restrictions put into ordinals to come up with alternatives.

theres no need for a hardfork, miners could mine empty blocks if they so choose, simply allowing minners to choose to filter out the ordinal spam would be a softfork.

and indeed this it seems to be happening.

It appears the writer of this news article does not read between the lines hehehee. Luke Dashjr did not capitulate on his criticism on Ordinals. What Ocean Mining is only doing is it will recommend 3 block templates for their miners and let them decide what they want to use. I speculate that this is only the beginning. Luke Dashjr might have a roadmap already created to minimize Ordinals' effect on fees.


Sarcastic Luke

Bitcoin developer Luke Dashjr fought the rise of Ordinals, which he called "spam," but now his mining pool is allowing them.

A prominent Bitcoin Core developer and Ordinals critic, Luke Dashjr, may have had a change of heart about the NFT-like assets. Or at the very least, his company is moving beyond his own hardline stance around Ordinals.

With the update, Ocean says, miners can choose from three block template policy options: Ocean Recommended, focusing on what the company calls “real” financial transactions with minimal spam; Bitcoin Core with the “Ordisrespector” spam filter; and the unmodified Bitcoin Core, mirroring other pools with fewer financial transactions but more “spam”—meaning Ordinals and BRC-20 token transactions.

Source https://decrypt.co/210662/bitcoin-ordinals-critic-caves-jack-dorsey-backed-ocean-mining-pool-flips-inscriptions

Good!

but now how much % of he hashrate will filter out ordinal? are minners really going to turn down short term profits for the good fo the network?

[TrustedBitcoiner]

It appears the writer of this news article does not read between the lines hehehee. Luke Dashjr did not capitulate on his criticism on Ordinals. What Ocean Mining is only doing is it will recommend 3 block templates for their miners and let them decide what they want to use. I speculate that this is only the beginning. Luke Dashjr might have a roadmap already created to minimize Ordinals' effect on fees.


Sarcastic Luke

Bitcoin developer Luke Dashjr fought the rise of Ordinals, which he called "spam," but now his mining pool is allowing them.

A prominent Bitcoin Core developer and Ordinals critic, Luke Dashjr, may have had a change of heart about the NFT-like assets. Or at the very least, his company is moving beyond his own hardline stance around Ordinals.

With the update, Ocean says, miners can choose from three block template policy options: Ocean Recommended, focusing on what the company calls “real” financial transactions with minimal spam; Bitcoin Core with the “Ordisrespector” spam filter; and the unmodified Bitcoin Core, mirroring other pools with fewer financial transactions but more “spam”—meaning Ordinals and BRC-20 token transactions.

Source https://decrypt.co/210662/bitcoin-ordinals-critic-caves-jack-dorsey-backed-ocean-mining-pool-flips-inscriptions

Bitcoin mining company Ocean has announced a change in its stance on Ordinals inscriptions, allowing miners to decide whether to process Bitcoin blocks containing non-financial transactions. Previously, the company prohibited such actions. This move comes as a surprise to many, given the company’s and Luke Dashjr’s hardline stance against Ordinals in the past.

dude he caved!  now even lass hashing power is filtering Ordinals...

there will be Ordinals in every block forever 

[Wind_FURY]

It appears the writer of this news article does not read between the lines hehehee. Luke Dashjr did not capitulate on his criticism on Ordinals. What Ocean Mining is only doing is it will recommend 3 block templates for their miners and let them decide what they want to use. I speculate that this is only the beginning. Luke Dashjr might have a roadmap already created to minimize Ordinals' effect on fees.


Sarcastic Luke

Bitcoin developer Luke Dashjr fought the rise of Ordinals, which he called "spam," but now his mining pool is allowing them.

A prominent Bitcoin Core developer and Ordinals critic, Luke Dashjr, may have had a change of heart about the NFT-like assets. Or at the very least, his company is moving beyond his own hardline stance around Ordinals.

With the update, Ocean says, miners can choose from three block template policy options: Ocean Recommended, focusing on what the company calls “real” financial transactions with minimal spam; Bitcoin Core with the “Ordisrespector” spam filter; and the unmodified Bitcoin Core, mirroring other pools with fewer financial transactions but more “spam”—meaning Ordinals and BRC-20 token transactions.

Source https://decrypt.co/210662/bitcoin-ordinals-critic-caves-jack-dorsey-backed-ocean-mining-pool-flips-inscriptions

Bitcoin mining company Ocean has announced a change in its stance on Ordinals inscriptions, allowing miners to decide whether to process Bitcoin blocks containing non-financial transactions. Previously, the company prohibited such actions. This move comes as a surprise to many, given the company’s and Luke Dashjr’s hardline stance against Ordinals in the past.

dude he caved!  now even lass hashing power is filtering Ordinals...

there will be Ordinals in every block forever 

I feel bad for the "developers" and the investors of those BRC-20 tokens. They will learn, the hard way, that they were merely pretending/deceiving themselves that those tokens have utility.

It's good to invest into now while there's money coming in, but what would happen when everyone learns, the hard way, that "BRC-20" is an inefficient, impractical way to issue and trade tokens?

[DooMAD]

Many Bitcoiners including me have been calling Ordinals an attack for nearly a year now and I have to say the fact that part of the Bitcoin community needed the fees to go up first before they could see Ordinals as it really is shows the community has still not reached complete maturity and I dare say some of them have not yet understood what bitcoin is.

A mature community would have been this concerned a year ago when the attack began by exploiting the protocol and when the attackers abused bitcoin blockchain by turning it into a cloud storage; not when fees went up and it started affecting them individually.

Beg to differ.  A truly mature community would be calmer and less reactionary.  All this endless whining is, quite frankly, unproductive and a little pathetic.  If you aren't working on a solution yourself, just accept the fact that your input isn't assisting with the situation.

The sense of entitlement some people exude is palpable. 

I don't know but the Bitcoin developer or the ordinal developer should figure this out or the fee will be this high for a long time.

There is no "Ordinals developer". There's only a bunch of people throwing programming shit at the wall to see what sticks.

As for bitcoin developers, well the default tendency is to do nothing, except for a small minority of them.

To clarify, there absolutely are ordinals developers and they have a GitHub where they're discussing this exact issue:  https://github.com/ordinals/ord/discussions/2879

Another discussion, spun off from luke-jr's failed pull request, is taking place on a personal GitHub here:  https://github.com/conduition/conduition.io/pull/5

People are working on stuff, but users here on the forums aren't even bothering to look.  So impatient users just make assumptions based on nothing and we end up with loads of worthless threads about it here on the forum.

[franky1]

To clarify, there absolutely are ordinals developers and they have a GitHub where they're discussing this exact issue:  https://github.com/ordinals/ord/discussions/2879

Another discussion, spun off from luke-jr's failed pull request, is taking place on a personal GitHub here:  https://github.com/conduition/conduition.io/pull/5

People are working on stuff, but users here on the forums aren't even bothering to look.  So impatient users just make assumptions based on nothing and we end up with loads of worthless threads about it here on the forum.

"conduition" only got involved 4 days ago
this debate has been going on nearly a year

so your screams of relax and be patient.. when talking to people that have been discussing it FOR A YEAR
yet you want to congratulate someone that only got involved 4 days ago..

seems you have things backwards

[Darker45]

I remember there were a number of Bitcoin supporters, even developers if I'm not mistaken, who brushed this Ordinals issue off when it was launched months ago saying it's not a big deal, that it will just die sooner rather than later, that they be allowed since they're paying fees for their transactions anyway, and so forth. Now, this issue has already escalated a lot and we seem to be taken back to step 1. Whether this now is a deliberate attack or not, bold steps should be taken. After all, it has already shaken the very core of Bitcoin. And I guess this transaction fee problem has not yet even reached its climax.

People who supported Ordinal at the beginning did not see that the emergence of this shitcoin could have a bad impact on the network. It's true that they pay fees for the transactions they make and the Bitcoin network is decentralized and can be used by everyone, but when one community annoys many people on the network with their shitcoins and empty dreams, shouldn't bitcoin devs take action against it? but as far as I can see no concrete steps have been taken, only empty talk to tell members to wait patiently for the network to return to normal.

You're responding to a post I've made many months ago, in the first half of the year. Indeed, this whole inscription thing hasn't died sooner rather than later. Apparently, it has become a big deal. I hope we are in the climax part, although I doubt it.

To be fair, however, despite the rising fees and unconfirmed transactions piling up, Bitcoin is continuously sailing. The price has even increased significantly. Back in May of this year, when I made that post, Bitcoin was only $27,000. Today, it's $44,000. So, whatever damage Ordinals have caused, it hasn't really discouraged people from Bitcoin.

Concrete steps are taken. Ordinary users like us will have to wait. But I believe that even if all these things are left unattended, things will get better at some point. This whole thing is built on sand.

[bbc.reporter]

It appears the writer of this news article does not read between the lines hehehee. Luke Dashjr did not capitulate on his criticism on Ordinals. What Ocean Mining is only doing is it will recommend 3 block templates for their miners and let them decide what they want to use. I speculate that this is only the beginning. Luke Dashjr might have a roadmap already created to minimize Ordinals' effect on fees.


Sarcastic Luke

Bitcoin developer Luke Dashjr fought the rise of Ordinals, which he called "spam," but now his mining pool is allowing them.

A prominent Bitcoin Core developer and Ordinals critic, Luke Dashjr, may have had a change of heart about the NFT-like assets. Or at the very least, his company is moving beyond his own hardline stance around Ordinals.

With the update, Ocean says, miners can choose from three block template policy options: Ocean Recommended, focusing on what the company calls “real” financial transactions with minimal spam; Bitcoin Core with the “Ordisrespector” spam filter; and the unmodified Bitcoin Core, mirroring other pools with fewer financial transactions but more “spam”—meaning Ordinals and BRC-20 token transactions.

Source https://decrypt.co/210662/bitcoin-ordinals-critic-caves-jack-dorsey-backed-ocean-mining-pool-flips-inscriptions

Bitcoin mining company Ocean has announced a change in its stance on Ordinals inscriptions, allowing miners to decide whether to process Bitcoin blocks containing non-financial transactions. Previously, the company prohibited such actions. This move comes as a surprise to many, given the company’s and Luke Dashjr’s hardline stance against Ordinals in the past.

dude he caved!  now even lass hashing power is filtering Ordinals...

there will be Ordinals in every block forever  

I very much disagree. Does this person look something similar to someone who has caved? He is not transforming himself to become Sam Bankman Fried only to cave. I am quite certain that Open Ocean's change in stance should make everyone begin to wonder what is Luke's plan.

[Natsuu]

Well, I say... let them burn their money, if they are doing this to sabotage Bitcoin. Let the miners do their thing and let the developers analyze this threat and implement their counter measures.

We should never forget that Bitcoin is still experimental ... we still need to figure out if the tx fees will be enough to reward the miners.. once the Block reward falls away.

It is just part of the evolution of this technology and ALL other tokens would have collapsed under an attack like this.... Bitcoin is still standing. 

Actually let’s just let them waste their efforts. Bitcoin is like facing challenges head-on and evolving to stay ahead. It's a team effort with miners, developers and the community joining forces, showing that flexibility is the name of the game in this ever-changing crypto landscape. Thats how bitcoin is always adapting and flexing its decentralized muscles.

[pooya87]

Beg to differ.  A truly mature community would be calmer and less reactionary.  All this endless whining is, quite frankly, unproductive and a little pathetic.  If you aren't working on a solution yourself, just accept the fact that your input isn't assisting with the situation.

The sense of entitlement some people exude is palpable.

The community needs to know the nature of this attack so it has to be explained as many times as required. Specially when the scammers run a much bigger operation on the internet advertising their scam as a legitimate thing calling arbitrary data "token" and attacking any attempt at fixing the exploit by calling it "censorship".

It is very strange to see certain users so bothered each time there is a discussion about ways to protect Bitcoin and fix the exploits that malicious projects are abusing 🤔

[DooMAD]

a discussion about ways to protect Bitcoin

While I don't doubt your intentions are good, the way in which most people seem to be going about this, the proposed "solution" sounds to me like a bigger threat then the underlying problem.  You don't cure the disease by killing the patient.  All I see is an angry, ignorant lynch-mob with their pitchforks and torches threatening to burn down the whole village to "fix" things.  If people burn this thing to the ground, there will be nothing left worth having.

and fix the exploits

That's just it.  Nothing I've seen so far even remotely resembles a fix.  Just clumsy hacks that won't prevent someone determined to embed data and could have long-term unintended consequences.  I don't think farcical games of 'whack-a-mole' are the way forward and that's all I've seen proposed so far.