Off-chain mixers

[bonjourbob]

Bonjour,

I am searching for off-chain type of mixer/échanger service. Any recommendations for moi?

Merci 

[joniboini]

I don't recall any mixer offering something like that. You will have to make some transactions at one point or another. As for exchange services, there are many P2P options such as offline trading. If that is not possible for you then I doubt there is any other choice. Don't even try to buy private keys, they are a scam. Alternatively, you can go the roundabout way of buying physical Bitcoin or collectibles and then sell them later, or use them. CMIIW.

Are you asking this for your Bitcoin transaction routing project?

[bonjourbob]

I don't recall any mixer offering something like that. You will have to make some transactions at one point or another. As for exchange services, there are many P2P options such as offline trading. If that is not possible for you then I doubt there is any other choice. Don't even try to buy private keys, they are a scam. Alternatively, you can go the roundabout way of buying physical Bitcoin or collectibles and then sell them later, or use them. CMIIW.

Did not ChipMixer offer private keys direct with mixes? I was searching for services similar.

Are you asking this for your Bitcoin transaction routing project?

Non but my project is coming along

Alternatively, you can go the roundabout way of buying physical Bitcoin or collectibles and then sell them later, or use them. CMIIW.

Bonne idée!

[Woodie]

Bonjour,

I am searching for off-chain type of mixer/échanger service. Any recommendations for moi?

Merci 

Off-chain kind of mixer not sure about this but the closest I know that connects off-chain to the on chain data  is Chainlinlk...which also has nothing to do with mixing!

OP so will this new project you have in the pipeline  interact with BTC or altcoins will be in this equation too?

[mk4]

Other than exchanging private keys with other people(which no one here will recommend you'd do), probably the closest to your description would be to use non-KYC exchanges to mix your coins. Not sure what the best option is, but probably KuCoin? DYOR.

[bonjourbob]

Bonjour,

I am searching for off-chain type of mixer/échanger service. Any recommendations for moi?

Merci  

Off-chain kind of mixer not sure about this but the closest I know that connects off-chain to the on chain data  is Chainlinlk...

Merci, I will take a look

which also has nothing to do with mixing!

Merci I will take a look. C'est exac in wording it would not be a mixer.

OP so will this new project you have in the pipeline  interact with BTC or altcoins will be in this equation too?

Oui  

Other than exchanging private keys with other people(which no one here will recommend you'd do), probably the closest to your description would be to use non-KYC exchanges to mix your coins. Not sure what the best option is, but probably KuCoin? DYOR.

I have had lots of people say that and I do understand why the risk.

However I wonder    why service like ChipMix was so popular since the chip appeared to be just a private keys.

Again, merci pour vos connaissances  

[Bitcoin_Arena]

However I wonder    why service like ChipMix was so popular since the chip appeared to be just a private keys.

There we so many factors why it was so popular
1. It was one of the kind
2. The fee (It was the lowest, If I recall well, they weren't charging any mandatory service fee)
3. Obviously exposure, they were one of the biggest advertisers here in the forum

We all know what happened when the mixer was seized. Some people lost money because, for some reason, Chipmixer did not delete the data logs as promised.

[bonjourbob]

Chipmixer did not delete the data logs as promised.

oh mon Dieu 

[Potato Chips]

However I wonder    why service like ChipMix was so popular since the chip appeared to be just a private keys.

Probably because these private keys contained dated UTXOs. For instance, if I deposit bitcoins today, I could get UTXOs from weeks ago instantly.

In mixing, it's good to have a good gap between your deposit and withdrawal. Competitors either let you withdraw instantly or have you choose to delay your withdrawal depending on the set of choices given (e.g up to a week) which means you'd have to wait. With CM, you could get a gap instantly and it's before your deposit = less extra step. Since people withdraw private keys, they could also set their own time better before sweeping.

The set your own fee plus good reputation were definitely up there too.

[joniboini]

why service like ChipMix was so popular since the chip appeared to be just a private keys.

While it shares some similarities to trading private keys, I don't think you can really be confident with random users on some marketplace giving you private keys for money. As others have mentioned, you do need some trust to use a service like that, but they were able to build that through one thing or another in this forum, which is impossible to happen for private trading private keys IMO. Not to mention other safer alternatives exist if you want to do P2P.

[hugeblack]

However I wonder    why service like ChipMix was so popular since the chip appeared to be just a private keys.

We cannot say that it is an off-chain mixer because transactions are still taking place inside the network and have not left it, but the link between the sender and receiver addresses has been broken.

As for the reason why this method of mixing has not been used in any other sites, it is because of the risks of managing private keys in hot wallets, as hacking the site means end to that mixer, and such a method requires a lot of liquidity that the site must have (more than 500 bitcoins ) to ensure that every user who deposits will receive a private key to an address old enough to break the link between the current and past transaction history.

In short, such mixers need a lot of liquidity at the start of work, which is rare for a legitimate service, especially since they will work on the donation system.

[Oshosondy]

I am searching for off-chain type of mixer/échanger service. Any recommendations for moi?

There is nothing called offchain mixers because there is no bitcoin mixer that is using lightning network which is the offchain network.

Did not ChipMixer offer private keys direct with mixes? I was searching for services similar.

Chipmixer is not an offchain mixer. If you want a similar mixer that offers private key like Chipmixer, use Whirlwind.

Other than exchanging private keys with other people(which no one here will recommend you'd do), probably the closest to your description would be to use non-KYC exchanges to mix your coins. Not sure what the best option is, but probably KuCoin? DYOR.

Kucoin is a centralized exchange. It is better to use a decentralized exchange like Bisq. It is good to exchange bitcoin to a privacy coin like monero and exchange the monero back to bitcoin.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I'm not entirely sure what you are looking for when you ask for an "off chain mixer", but two options come to mind.

The first is obvious - leave the bitcoin chain entirely. Trade your bitcoin for monero, move that monero around a bit in various transactions, varying amounts, varying times, etc., and then trade it back to bitcoin in multiple different trades with multiple different trading partners. Do all of that with Bisq, Tor, and your own monero node.

The other would be to use Whirlwind's pay to note feature. Deposit some coins to Whirlwind as you would with any other mixer, and you can then mix them off chain by moving them between notes you control, paying to notes other people control, or swapping them with another user whom you trust.

[bonjourbob]

However I wonder    why service like ChipMix was so popular since the chip appeared to be just a private keys.

Probably because these private keys contained dated UTXOs. For instance, if I deposit bitcoins today, I could get UTXOs from weeks ago instantly.

In mixing, it's good to have a good gap between your deposit and withdrawal. Competitors either let you withdraw instantly or have you choose to delay your withdrawal depending on the set of choices given (e.g up to a week) which means you'd have to wait. With CM, you could get a gap instantly and it's before your deposit = less extra step. Since people withdraw private keys, they could also set their own time better before sweeping.

The set your own fee plus good reputation were definitely up there too.

Merci for the response. It helps me apprendre 


I want to say merci to all of you for taking your time to teach and explain.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[dkbit98]

I am searching for off-chain type of mixer/échanger service. Any recommendations for moi?

You can use anything on second layer (Mercury wallet, confidential transactions in Liquid), sidechains or Lightning Network that works something like off-main-chain mixing.
Transaction like BTC-XMR-BTC can also be considered similar as off btc-chain mixing, but they are not totally off chain.

[yhiaali3]

I don't think there is an off-chain mixer because the transactions even if they are created off the network have to be recorded in the blockchain eventually, but as I understand it I think you are looking for a mixer that gives you mixed chips like a chipmixer.

If this is what you are looking for then I do not recommend you because it turns out that this type of mixer is very dangerous as it can simply keep a copy of your data and private keys and you can lose your bitcoins.