Ledger Recovery - Send your (encrypted) recovery phrase to 3rd parties entities

[Lucius]

Haha, I laughed a lot You made my day

I laughed when I first read that, because it's such a stupid attempt to convince current clients and future customers that this service is something they should use.

In podcast, the CEO of Ledger said that they have 6 million customers. That's a tiny number if they have calculated that up to 100 million users are in queue in near future and are exactly looking for this service.

Are you referring to this YT video? I watched it yesterday and I have to admit that I was even more disappointed with how Ledger looked at the whole situation, and that he actually called everyone who raised their voice people who spread FUD for no reason. The part in which Pascal talks about the Ledger leak scandal is especially incredible, because he claims that almost no one knew that it happened, and that the event had no impact on the company, suggesting that the dust around seed sharing will soon settle. That part is available at 56:20.

I want to ask you, how many people use Facebook? Google search? Keep in mind that these companies don't give a shit to users personal information and it has been proven for many times and still their profit and userbase increases every day. Millions of facebook users post what and where they eat, where they work, what movie they watch, send sensitive information in messenger, etc.
Don't you think that these people aren't going to somehow step in a crypto world? And don't you think that they can be that 100 million users and will willingly use Ledger Recover service?

Some old information that I know without googling says that there were about 2.4 billion FB users, although of course not all of them are unique users. But regardless of all those users, I don't think that Ledger will one day even have 100 million users, I'm somehow more convinced that this company will fail much sooner, and that it will probably be destroyed by this same service that they are trying to sell now. The three companies that will keep the seeds will sooner or later be part of some data leak, hundreds or thousands will be hacked that way and then there will be no going back.

Let's say that Ledger has two options: A. Their profit will increase slightly if they keep their current crypto enthusiast customers happy and B. Their profit will dramatically increase if they lose some of their customers but attract a lot of new customers who will pay them $9 every month.
Ledger is a business, a corporative company, right? And it's clear to see that this company wasn't founded by a crypto enthusiast but by a person who is a businessman and wants money. They go with option B.

I don't doubt that, profit is the only thing they are interested in, especially if you look at how these people live luxuriously and how they flaunt their wealth (a gold ring on every finger), and the hunger for even more money makes them do such things.

In recent posts, the "geniuses" from Ledger refer to their mothers and some future 100 million clients

It is an interesting talking point because it is exactly the same talking point that Square/Block have been using to promote their hardware wallet which has no seed phrases and shares custody of your back up with third parties.

For example, here is their business lead Lindsey Grossman using the 100 million figure, and then talking about her "friends and family": https://youtu.be/WbjzZQwDozw?t=355

Good catch, and just another minus in the whole story. However, reading the comments of some people under the video I linked, it is incredible how many people believe in the nonsense that people from Ledger are talking about. Einstein was definitely right.

[Pmalek]

Contrary to what Ledger is trying to sell, trusting a single company to "do the right thing" is not even remotely the same as having thousands of developers and hackers -- independent and contracted alike -- making sure that there's nothing fishy going on. It simply isn't.

I agree with you to some extent. However, I want to mention all those Dapps, decentralized liquidity providers, DEXs for ETH tokens and the likes that have been hacked or exit scammed numerous times in the past. Their open-source nature didn't prevent it. Nobody noticed the vulnerabilities until the money was gone. "Security experts" provided them with their seals of guarantee which proved to be useless after hackers found ways to breech the platforms. Just because there is a way to inspect a code doesn't mean those doing it put that much effort into it.

In my opinion, the intention (although I think it is not true that a large number of users asked for it) of enabling such a service only shows that Ledger does not care that they try to present risk as a benefit, as long as their additional profit is behind it.

Besides profiting even more, they are doing this as a sign they are willing to cooperate with certain governments, maybe even in collusion with them. We never understood why Wasabi would partner with a blockchain analysis company and why Trezor would do the same. We also won't understand this in its full context. Stricter regulations are coming, and governments are ensuring they have partners everywhere.

Look at where the companies that will be storing the shards are located. The USA and the UK + the last shard is held by Ledger. Don't you think they couldn't have found partner companies elsewhere? Of course, they could have. The way they did it now, the right document from the right 3-letter agency in the US gets US authorities one shard, with Ledger gladly supplying the second one. 

If Ledger Recover was a mandatory service, then that would make sense but since its optional, there is no logical reason to produce another series of hardware wallets. You can either subscribe it and pay $9 monthly or just ignore it and use Ledger in a traditional way.

You are forgetting one thing. The code for Ledger Recover will become available on your device if you upgrade the firmware. For now, that's true only for the Nano X. You decide if you want to switch the feature on or off, but Ledger brings it to you no matter what. Imagine a self destruct button in your car, where, if you press it, the car explodes. I am not going to press it, but I am not comfortable having it there at all. Ledger has already decided to add that button.

[Synchronice]

Are you referring to this YT video? I watched it yesterday and I have to admit that I was even more disappointed with how Ledger looked at the whole situation, and that he actually called everyone who raised their voice people who spread FUD for no reason. The part in which Pascal talks about the Ledger leak scandal is especially incredible, because he claims that almost no one knew that it happened, and that the event had no impact on the company, suggesting that the dust around seed sharing will soon settle. That part is available at 56:20.

Yes, I'm referring to that video. It made me moody and angry how Pascal (he doesn't deserve this surname) looks at Bitcoin users. You could see an ironical and humiliating attitude towards bitcoin users in his speech. I bet he even laughs and thinks how stupid people are when they buy/order his hardware wallet.

I'm somehow more convinced that this company will fail much sooner, and that it will probably be destroyed by this same service that they are trying to sell now. The three companies that will keep the seeds will sooner or later be part of some data leak, hundreds or thousands will be hacked that way and then there will be no going back.

At some point I think that there is a bigger overall plan and FTX, Ledger and other companies are part of this plan, yes, I know it sounds like a conspiracy theory but everything can happen. Look, top exchanges fail/scam/go-bankrupt, now hardware wallets are probably going to get hacked/leaked. Isn't this a reason to ban bitcoin usage/trading/mining/etc? Probably this is a real plan or probably they think that people are dumb and want to take an advantage of that.

If Ledger Recover was a mandatory service, then that would make sense but since its optional, there is no logical reason to produce another series of hardware wallets. You can either subscribe it and pay $9 monthly or just ignore it and use Ledger in a traditional way.

You are forgetting one thing. The code for Ledger Recover will become available on your device if you upgrade the firmware. For now, that's true only for the Nano X. You decide if you want to switch the feature on or off, but Ledger brings it to you no matter what. Imagine a self destruct button in your car, where, if you press it, the car explodes. I am not going to press it, but I am not comfortable having it there at all. Ledger has already decided to add that button.

No, o_e_l_e_o said that Ledger could offer people a new device called Ledger Nano R(ecover) and offer Recover option only on that device but that's not gonna happen because on paper, Ledger says that their Recover subscription is optional for everyone and if they don't want to use it, their seeds won't be backed up, so, I told him that's the reason why Ledger simply doesn't have to produce another hardware wallet with that option.

By the way, we don't actually know whether Ledger wallet already came with turned on self-destructive button or not but one thing is sure, they went against the wish of people who value privacy, so this product is not for us. Ledger is definitely the modern Trojan Horse in bitcoin world.

[HeRetiK]

Contrary to what Ledger is trying to sell, trusting a single company to "do the right thing" is not even remotely the same as having thousands of developers and hackers -- independent and contracted alike -- making sure that there's nothing fishy going on. It simply isn't.

I agree with you to some extent. However, I want to mention all those Dapps, decentralized liquidity providers, DEXs for ETH tokens and the likes that have been hacked or exit scammed numerous times in the past. Their open-source nature didn't prevent it. Nobody noticed the vulnerabilities until the money was gone. "Security experts" provided them with their seals of guarantee which proved to be useless after hackers found ways to breech the platforms. Just because there is a way to inspect a code doesn't mean those doing it put that much effort into it.

Good point!

To clarify, I'm under no delusion that open source means 100% security -- see Heartbleed affecting OpenSSL for example. I'm just saying that the level of trust required and security provided by open sourcing your code is on a wholly different level.

Dapps and DEXs are actually a great example of the limits of using the many eyes principles of open source for additional security and trustlessness: (1) The developer communities are much smaller because they are splintered across a variety of projects, (2) the incentives for using an exploit yourself rather than doing a responsible disclosure are much higher (i.e. while you could monetize a 0-day you find on a hardware wallet or cryptographic library by selling them, exploiting a smart contract nets a much higher pay day without an intermediary) and (3) those projects unfortunately often come with both a leadership and community that tend to downplay and sometimes silence valid concerns as FUD (IIRC SOL was the posterboy for that).

[Lucius]

~snip~
Look at where the companies that will be storing the shards are located. The USA and the UK + the last shard is held by Ledger. Don't you think they couldn't have found partner companies elsewhere? Of course, they could have. The way they did it now, the right document from the right 3-letter agency in the US gets US authorities one shard, with Ledger gladly supplying the second one. 

Nothing happens by chance, everything is well thought out, and apart from profit, the point is to put as many users of this HW as possible in a position where they can be controlled. Of course, not everyone will accept the new service, some because of the price and KYC, others because they understand how absurd and dangerous it is, but let it not surprise anyone if Ledger turns that service into something mandatory in the future, because their "mothers" and maybe even 200 millions of users are super satisfied and they will ask the company to protect those of us who don't understand it.

Yes, I'm referring to that video. It made me moody and angry how Pascal (he doesn't deserve this surname) looks at Bitcoin users. You could see an ironical and humiliating attitude towards bitcoin users in his speech. I bet he even laughs and thinks how stupid people are when they buy/order his hardware wallet.

Yes, it's easy to see what attitude he has towards anyone who dares to criticize what he does, but he's one of those people who always thinks that everything they do is perfect and completely right. I lost my trust in that company a long time ago, but after everything that has happened now, I will be extra motivated to warn all current and future users to think seriously about whether they will trust someone who makes such risky and senseless decisions, and has such a hypocritical attitude attitude towards those who made it possible for him to be what he is today.

At some point I think that there is a bigger overall plan and FTX, Ledger and other companies are part of this plan, yes, I know it sounds like a conspiracy theory but everything can happen. Look, top exchanges fail/scam/go-bankrupt, now hardware wallets are probably going to get hacked/leaked. Isn't this a reason to ban bitcoin usage/trading/mining/etc? Probably this is a real plan or probably they think that people are dumb and want to take an advantage of that.

I wouldn't even say that there is a plan in the sense that someone devised it, but that the plan is actually to let people do what they know best, which is to destroy themselves. Everything that is happening is just an indication of how wrong we were when we trusted companies like Ledger or Trezor, or that most Bitcoin trading is conducted through CEX. For the first time in history, we got a decentralized currency, and in fact we centralized it to such an extent that it is mostly stored in a centralized way.

Still, it's not too late to change, everyone can use DEX and store their coins in airgapped storage, and if the majority did that, people like Pascal, CZ or Brian Armstrong would become completely irrelevant.

[Pmalek]

Nothing happens by chance, everything is well thought out, and apart from profit, the point is to put as many users of this HW as possible in a position where they can be controlled. Of course, not everyone will accept the new service, some because of the price and KYC, others because they understand how absurd and dangerous it is, but let it not surprise anyone if Ledger turns that service into something mandatory in the future, because their "mothers" and maybe even 200 millions of users are super satisfied and they will ask the company to protect those of us who don't understand it.

There will probably be special price discounts for new users to sign up. Maybe the next Black Friday deal will be a special $1.99/month for the next year for those who enroll.
This is just the initial money-grab, it will become cheaper with time. At one point, it might even become free.

Btw, who stores the KYC data?
Ledger, because it worked perfectly with other data in the past?
Ledger + the two other companies for triple the risk?
Or a brand new service we don't yet know about?

[dragonvslinux]

Nothing happens by chance, everything is well thought out, and apart from profit, the point is to put as many users of this HW as possible in a position where they can be controlled. Of course, not everyone will accept the new service, some because of the price and KYC, others because they understand how absurd and dangerous it is, but let it not surprise anyone if Ledger turns that service into something mandatory in the future, because their "mothers" and maybe even 200 millions of users are super satisfied and they will ask the company to protect those of us who don't understand it.

Btw, who stores the KYC data?
Ledger, because it worked perfectly with other data in the past?

I checked for you, it's done via KYC provider Onfido. Make of that what you will.

Ledger + the two other companies for triple the risk?

Despite all the risks, I wouldn't say having your seed phrase sharded to three companies is higher risk than simply having Ledger "look after it" for you. Clearly there would be slightly less risk, as all three companies would need to be hacked. Not that I'm defending Ledger here, but just pointing out the reality as I think you're not looking at the most vulnerable angle. The real risk is that Ledger's servers are far from secure based on past hack as you pointed out, and therefore the sharded seed phrase going through Ledger servers in order to "safely" get to the other two companies is a massive risk.

All it would therefore take is to gain access to Ledger's servers (again) and bingo, you can intercept an encrypted seed phrase, even if sharded. They do claim the seed can only be decrypted with the same Ledger that created it, but I imagine with any Ledger there would be a simple workaround for this, such as spoofing the device's log number in order for the encrypted shard to think it's the same one.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I checked for you, it's done via KYC provider Onfido. Make of that what you will.

For Ledger's shard, yes. But your KYC data will also be stored with the other two third party companies as well, in order for them to release their shard if needed:

Ledger Recover uses your ID and a selfie to verify who you are, via its Identity Verification provider, Onfido. Then, it links your identity to encrypted fragments of your Secret Recovery phrase. The identity providers store this ID data in an encrypted form.

So there will be three companies holding your KYC data, duplicated across an unknown number of servers in an unknown number of locations with unknown security protocols and an unknown number of people with digital or physical access. Just like every other KYC, it will only be a matter of time before your information is leaked/hacked/shared/sold.

They do claim the seed can only be decrypted with the same Ledger that created it, but I imagine with any Ledger there would be a simple workaround for this, such as spoofing the device's log number in order for the encrypted shard to think it's the same one.

It's the exact opposite, in fact. They say that you can use Ledger Recover with a brand new device:

What if I lose my Ledger device that is associated with my Ledger Recover subscription?

Simply get another Ledger device and follow the process to recover access to your wallet.

[Pmalek]

Despite all the risks, I wouldn't say having your seed phrase sharded to three companies is higher risk than simply having Ledger "look after it" for you.

I wasn't asking about the seed and storing the seed this time. I meant who stores the KYC data (the IDs and selfies). Your link confirms that Onfido is their partner for that which answers my question.   

They do claim the seed can only be decrypted with the same Ledger that created it, but I imagine with any Ledger there would be a simple workaround for this, such as spoofing the device's log number in order for the encrypted shard to think it's the same one.

I have heard the opposite. You don't need the original device you used for Ledger Recover and seed sharding. Since the shards are connected to your identity (the ID and selfie you provide), the hardware wallet device is of secondary importance here. 

[dragonvslinux]

I checked for you, it's done via KYC provider Onfido. Make of that what you will.

For Ledger's shard, yes. But your KYC data will also be stored with the other two third party companies as well, in order for them to release their shard if needed:

Ledger Recover uses your ID and a selfie to verify who you are, via its Identity Verification provider, Onfido. Then, it links your identity to encrypted fragments of your Secret Recovery phrase. The identity providers store this ID data in an encrypted form.

So there will be three companies holding your KYC data, duplicated across an unknown number of servers in an unknown number of locations with unknown security protocols and an unknown number of people with digital or physical access. Just like every other KYC, it will only be a matter of time before your information is leaked/hacked/shared/sold.

Fair point, I was only considering was who handling the raw data, rather than how it's stored. I also think the encrypted ID with your shard is the least of your worries though... the seed phrase is more the concern.

They do claim the seed can only be decrypted with the same Ledger that created it, but I imagine with any Ledger there would be a simple workaround for this, such as spoofing the device's log number in order for the encrypted shard to think it's the same one.

It's the exact opposite, in fact. They say that you can use Ledger Recover with a brand new device:

What if I lose my Ledger device that is associated with my Ledger Recover subscription?

Simply get another Ledger device and follow the process to recover access to your wallet.

Strange, I thought I heard a Q&A with the CTO claimed that it was only decrypt-able via the original Ledger, but obviously this doesn't make sense if it breaks and you want to recover your seed phrase.


In other news: Trezor sales soar 900% amid Ledger’s seed recovery controversy
https://cryptoslate.com/trezor-sales-soar-900-amid-ledgers-seed-recovery-controversy/

Seems Ledger users are going from one very insecure device to a slightly less insecure device.

[witcher_sense]

I have heard the opposite. You don't need the original device you used for Ledger Recover and seed sharding. Since the shards are connected to your identity (the ID and selfie you provide), the hardware wallet device is of secondary importance here.  

They never answered this: https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/13lo5rv/decrypt_key_and_ledger_recover/

To me, this looks very suspicious because you need a communication channel between hardware wallets to transfer a decryption key, which basically means you have to rely on a third-party provider (most likely the entity asking you for documents) to store and send it to you after a successful KYC procedure. I don't quite understand what prevents this provider from colluding with companies holding parts of your seed, or how this provider can be a safer solution than a hardware wallet itself. This new recovery feature does nothing but weakens your security setup since the amount of information to store safely increases, and the number of parties knowing that information doubles and triples. No matter if they open-source this feature eventually, this is just terrible for a hardware wallet manufacturer to offer it.

[Lucius]

~snip~
Seems Ledger users are going from one very insecure device to a slightly less insecure device.

It just shows that all those who go in that direction are not aware of what they are actually buying or for some reason known only to them they ignore some known facts. That HW has an irreparable vulnerability that allows an attacker who comes into possession of such a device to extract the seed in 5-10 minutes, not to mention their cooperation with those who will analyze all transactions and determine which ones are good and which ones are not. In addition, who says that the Trezor will not come up with something similar to Ledger in the future?

[o_e_l_e_o]

They never answered this: https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/13lo5rv/decrypt_key_and_ledger_recover/

They don't need to. As I pointed out earlier in this thread:

It's not clear yet, but we know they must have the means to decrypt it themselves. You can lose your hardware wallet and your seed phrase, and still recover your wallets on a new device. This means that everything needed to recover your seed phrase (i.e. the shares and their decryption keys) are stored by one or more third parties, since you need to provide absolutely nothing yourself, not even the original device.

If you are able to recover everything to a brand new device, then that means Ledger and their third party buddies are storing everything needed to fully recover your wallet. This means not just the encrypted shards, but the decryption key as well.

To me, this looks very suspicious because you need a communication channel between hardware wallets to transfer a decryption key, which basically means you have to rely on a third-party provider (most likely the entity asking you for documents) to store and send it to you after a successful KYC procedure.

Further, all three of your encrypted shards and their decryption key must first pass from your hardware wallet to your computer, and then all be sent out from your computer to these third parties, and then again in the reverse direction. You are exposing everything needed to steal your coins to the same risks as any other hot wallet.

[Pmalek]

They never answered this: https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/13lo5rv/decrypt_key_and_ledger_recover/

Not in that particular reddit discussion, but that topic is partially covered in the Ledger Recover FAQs. I say partially because they don't go into details how the recovery is supposed to work if the original device is lost. Check the answer to the question "What if I lose my Ledger device that is associated with my Ledger Recover subscription?" o_e_l_e_o is surely on the right track here.

[RickDeckard]

They never answered this: https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/13lo5rv/decrypt_key_and_ledger_recover/

Not in that particular reddit discussion, but that topic is partially covered in the Ledger Recover FAQs. I say partially because they don't go into details how the recovery is supposed to work if the original device is lost. Check the answer to the question "What if I lose my Ledger device that is associated with my Ledger Recover subscription?" o_e_l_e_o is surely on the right track here.

Considering the documents on the FAQ page of Ledger Recovery and how Ledger is replying on Twitter, I would say that o_e_l_e_o is exactly right regarding how the process will be deployed. What amazes me is the fact that Ledger is totally silent when faced with the fact[1][2][3] - or flaw - that is being able to restore your encrypted shards on any device. Do they consider their clients that ignorant regarding how seed phrases work? I should also note that Ledger Nano S will eventually[4] receive this "awesome" feature, per reply on their Reddit page.

As a side note, I am still amazed by the fact that they imploded their company and lost the loyalty of their clients for $9.99 per month...
[1]https://nitter.it/koinosblocks/status/1658789379626729475
[2]https://nitter.it/leacaselli30/status/1659268462806433792
[3]https://nitter.it/holger_wally/status/1658589976530132993
[4]https://safereddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/13scxdo/comment/jlp5t5b/?context=3

[safar1980]

In other news: Trezor sales soar 900% amid Ledger’s seed recovery controversy
https://cryptoslate.com/trezor-sales-soar-900-amid-ledgers-seed-recovery-controversy/

Seems Ledger users are going from one very insecure device to a slightly less insecure device.

"Ledger, the largest hardware wallet maker, has completed a €100 million valuation at a €1.3 billion valuation. Ledger claims it now stores more than 20% of the world's cryptocurrencies and 30% of the world's NFTs. Investors include True Global Ventures, Cité Gestion SPV, Digital Finance Group, and VaynerFund."
https://twitter.com/WuBlockchain/status/1641445894162874369?

At the end of March, the ledger was doing very well. Maybe new investors suggested this brilliant idea to them.
The next report on cryptocurrencies and tokens on ledger wallets will certainly be interesting

[Pmalek]

What amazes me is the fact that Ledger is totally silent when faced with the fact[1][2][3] - or flaw - that is being able to restore your encrypted shards on any device. Do they consider their clients that ignorant regarding how seed phrases work?

But that's the whole point of the service. The ability for mothers and grandmothers to recover their coins on any device even if they lose their seed and misplace the original hardware wallet. Their claim that the decryption key is stored on your Nano's secure element makes no sense. How can the key be in in device A and I still have everything I need to recover my coins on devices B and C? Together with their partners, they store all the essentials for successful recovery.     

I should also note that Ledger Nano S will eventually[4] receive this "awesome" feature, per reply on their Reddit page.

No, not the Ledger Nano S. They aren't selling this model anymore and will eventually drop support for it. The Ledger Nano S Plus will have support for Ledger Recover. So far they haven't mentioned anything about the Ledger Stax.

[libert19]

Ledger claims it now stores more than 20% of the world's cryptocurrencies and 30% of the world's NFTs.

Not sure about the statement, how do you come to conclusion like that with hardware wallet?


Also, here is an interesting Reddit thread from ledger co-founder and Ex CEO: My personal view on the pr disaster from Ledger

[Synchronice]

Or, the incredibly simple solution which would have avoided literally all of this drama - create a new product called Ledger Nano R, which is the only product in their range which provides this Recovery nonsense. People who want third parties to store their seed phrase can buy the R, and everyone else with a shred of sense can stay away from it.

Yesterday I was reading Ledger Recover FAQ and there is a similar question (but about second operating system) in their FAQ, it may be interesting for you:

Why don't you build a second operating system without Ledger Recover?
In terms of security, there is no difference in having this part of the code in the operating system or not. In reality, it is up to the user to choose if they want to activate the feature or not. We have no doubt that implementing this feature in our firmware does not increase the threat model or the attack surface area. 

Our OS implements plenty of cryptographic primitives. These primitives manipulate secrets. They all must be properly implemented and this is Ledger’s job. Finally, our contract with users is that whenever the OS touches any secret, the user is prompted to give his consent.

Running two operating systems is costly, and since there is no technical advantage to having a second operating system we would prefer to spend our funds developing and improving security and ease of use for our products for our current and future customers.

As we have also committed to make the code open source, meaning that people will soon be able to verify this code themselves.

I wouldn't even say that there is a plan in the sense that someone devised it, but that the plan is actually to let people do what they know best, which is to destroy themselves. Everything that is happening is just an indication of how wrong we were when we trusted companies like Ledger or Trezor, or that most Bitcoin trading is conducted through CEX. For the first time in history, we got a decentralized currency, and in fact we centralized it to such an extent that it is mostly stored in a centralized way.

Still, it's not too late to change, everyone can use DEX and store their coins in airgapped storage, and if the majority did that, people like Pascal, CZ or Brian Armstrong would become completely irrelevant.

Is there something wrong with Trezor at the moment? Just asking. It's an open-source and you can verify whether the code of bought hardware matches the publicly available open-source code.

Yes, for the first time in history we got a decentralized currency but money and power always ruins the party. Decentralization is like an anarchy and in human life anarchy can't work because we, by nature, are social animals. People always try to form a group, to centralize and every group tries to gain as much power as possible and finally the strongest group takes over the weakest one and you know, then happens all the shit.
By the way, bitcoin gives us freedom but freedom comes with responsibilities, people don't like responsibilities, they want to give it away and when you give it away, you become a slave.

So there will be three companies holding your KYC data, duplicated across an unknown number of servers in an unknown number of locations with unknown security protocols and an unknown number of people with digital or physical access. Just like every other KYC, it will only be a matter of time before your information is leaked/hacked/shared/sold.

There is a country called Georgia and the data of their whole population is leaked and published online, maybe people from this country don't care about KYC anymore because it's already available for everyone for free What a shame man.
Data Leak: Personal identifiable information of 4.9 million Georgians found online

[o_e_l_e_o]

Yesterday I was reading Ledger Recover FAQ and there is a similar question (but about second operating system) in their FAQ, it may be interesting for you

Oh, don't get me wrong. I am under no illusion that a new device makes zero technical difference to existing devices. Even without this firmware being deployed to existing devices, it is now abundantly clear that Ledger have been lying for years about the capabilities of their secure elements. I was simply pointing out that if I was a Ledger employee/board member, then I would have done the tiniest bit of research first, realized that 99% of existing customers hate this idea, and suggested launching it on a new device only and saying nothing about our existing devices.

It's good that they weren't this smart, though, since it's served as a big wake up call for people to stop trusting these shady third parties. Unfortunately it seems many people are simply jumping from one shady third party (Ledger) to another shady third party (Trezor).

Is there something wrong with Trezor at the moment? Just asking. It's an open-source and you can verify whether the code of bought hardware matches the publicly available open-source code.

All their devices suffer from unfixable seed extraction vulnerabilities, which they deliberately sweep under the rug and do not tell their users how to mitigate against. They also have a very pro-government, pro-censorship, pro-surveillance, and anti-fungibility ethos, as shown by their support of AOPP and their partnership with Wasabi and blockchain analysis.