Electrum air gapped device

[Zoomic]

As I am taking steps to increasing my bitcoin knowledge, securing my coin and being privacy oriented, I thank everyone who is helping me to making progress.
I have a question!
Can a well set up electrum wallet on an air gapped device be considered to be as secured as a hardware wallet?

[1714255301]

1714255301

[apogio]

As I am taking steps to increasing my bitcoin knowledge, securing my coin and being privacy oriented, I thank everyone who is helping me to making progress.
I have a question!
Can a well set up electrum wallet on an air gapped device be considered to be as secured as a hardware wallet?

Hello, congratulations for your decision.

How would you set up electrum wallet on an airgapped device? Technically you could create a wallet using electrum offline. You could also sign transactions, but there are 2 things to consider:

1. you still need another wallet to broadcast the transactions
2. you have to make sure the device is truly air gapped. You should remove the hardware that is suspicious and in general, you should make sure that the device cannot connect to the internet.

I don't like this idea very much however. A user here has asked if they could do the same using bluewallet on a smartphone that is totally offline. The answer is that you could do this, but I suppose it is not highly recommended.

In fact, @o_e_l_e_o answers your question perfectly (in my opinion) here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5441664.20

[BitMaxz]

Can a well set up electrum wallet on an air gapped device be considered to be as secured as a hardware wallet?

Yes, like the above said creating an Electrum wallet offline should be considered secured but even if it's an offline since you want to use it as an airgap wallet a normal OS like Windows is still vulnerable to any attack via USB transfer(like flash drive transferring signed and unsigned psbt file that includes virus/malware from the online device).

So if you want a secure way then installing tails OS and install Electrum should be the best option to protect your wallet. You can check the guide below on how to install Tails and Electrum.

- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5228801.0

[UchihaSarada]

You can download, verify and install your Electrum wallet.
[GUIDE] How to Safely Download and Verify Electrum [Guide]

After that you can turn off Internet connection and create your wallet offline. You can do it on airgap computer too.

Creating a cold storage wallet
Creating a multisig wallet

[IIrik11]

Can a well set up electrum wallet on an air gapped device be considered to be as secured as a hardware wallet?

yes. i actually consider it to be more safer than hardware wallets but that's just me.

but it is a pain in the ass going back and forth to sign txs.

which is why it is better to use air-gapped wallet to store only big amounts.

and use a hot-wallet for day to day txs.

[Pmalek]

I have a question!
Can a well set up electrum wallet on an air gapped device be considered to be as secured as a hardware wallet?

Considering the recent drama around the two biggest hardware wallet manufacturers, it's a lot safer to opt for an airgapped device. It's always been safer, but hardware wallets were more convenient to use and still provided enough security for regular users.

Your offline Electrum client should be installed on a newly formatted PC that uses a Linux distro (recommended).
Encrypt your SSD/HD with a strong password.
A properly airgapped system doesn't have the hardware to connect to the internet. That means, you should remove the WIFI and network cards.
You need a second device that you will use to broadcast the transactions singed on the offline device. The online device must never have your seed or private keys, only the master public keys.
You can track your balances via the online device. You need a way to export/import signed/unsigned transaction data between the two devices. You can do that via USBs, SD cards, or QR codes.

[Aikidoka]

As I am taking steps to increasing my bitcoin knowledge, securing my coin and being privacy oriented, I thank everyone who is helping me to making progress.
I have a question!
Can a well set up electrum wallet on an air gapped device be considered to be as secured as a hardware wallet?

Yes, you're correct and it's possible that storing your bitcoins on an air-gapped device would be even more secure. I've recently come across news about Ledger sending users' encrypted recovery phrases to third-party entities and to be honest it's quite scary. This is really concerning and it's difficult to trust hardware devices like this after such an incident imo. As a result, I think relying on an air-gapped device for storing your funds may be a more reliable option.

Setting up an Electrum wallet on an air-gapped device is not overly difficult. If you're using Linux you can follow this guide[1] for step-by-step instructions. For Windows users, there is a comprehensive tutorial[2] available on YouTube that will guide you on how to set it up safely and correctly.

[1]: https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/coldstorage.html
[2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQumISxkJsQ&t=1s&ab_channel=FasterTutorialsCom

[dkbit98]

Can a well set up electrum wallet on an air gapped device be considered to be as secured as a hardware wallet?

There is no universal answer on this questions and it all depends on you how you set everything up, but in theory it can be compared with hardware wallets if done correctly.
There are several issues if you decide to go with airgapped computer, you need to properly install fresh operating system and never again connect it to other network.
Normal computers have a much bigger attack surface and there are more mistakes someone can do to compromise their security.

[Zoomic]

I have a question!
Can a well set up electrum wallet on an air gapped device be considered to be as secured as a hardware wallet?

Considering the recent drama around the two biggest hardware wallet manufacturers, it's a lot safer to opt for an airgapped device. It's always been safer, but hardware wallets were more convenient to use and still provided enough security for regular users.

Thank you for this and also the extended tutorial you gave me. I will consider more in the coming weeks when I'll set up my wallet with the system described.

As I am taking steps to increasing my bitcoin knowledge, securing my coin and being privacy oriented, I thank everyone who is helping me to making progress.
I have a question!
Can a well set up electrum wallet on an air gapped device be considered to be as secured as a hardware wallet?

Yes, you're correct and it's possible that storing your bitcoins on an air-gapped device would be even more secure. I've recently come across news about Ledger sending users' encrypted recovery phrases to third-party entities and to be honest it's quite scary. This is really concerning and it's difficult to trust hardware devices like this after such an incident imo. As a result, I think relying on an air-gapped device for storing your funds may be a more reliable option.

I also have read where people unknowingly bought a cloned trezor hardware and they were hacked.  Alot of efforts needs to be put in place while securing and set up these wallets. Be it hardware or airgapped software.
Also, thanks for the footer links you provided.

There is no universal answer on this questions and it all depends on you how you set everything up, but in theory it can be compared with hardware wallets if done correctly.
There are several issues if you decide to go with airgapped computer, you need to properly install fresh operating system and never again connect it to other network.
Normal computers have a much bigger attack surface and there are more mistakes someone can do to compromise their security.

This is true as many has warned against it. When the time comes I'll follow it delegently.

[khaled0111]

As long as the wallet you are using is open source and you know how it generates the seed of your wallet (it's supposed to be completely random.)
If you can confirm the above and can secure the wallet's seed then you should be fine and you don't need a hardware wallet, or any other wallet.

[Pmalek]

I also have read where people unknowingly bought a cloned trezor hardware and they were hacked.  Alot of efforts needs to be put in place while securing and set up these wallets. Be it hardware or airgapped software.

There have been various types of hardware wallet-related scams in the past. The problem is that people rely too much on google search and the ads the service generates. That's one way they are led to a fake site offering fake Electrum software. There have also been cases where customers have been personally targeted by scammers and received fake hardware wallets they were supposed to use. It's all connected to the data leak by Ledger and its partner company.

You should also never trust recommendations given by random people on social media or follow links from unknown users on Telegram. Always download the software from official websites only and ask here on the forum if you are in doubt.

We see way too many individuals who come here after they have already made a serious mistake or lost their crypto. Be better than that. Ask and learn, so you don't put yourself in a position of losing your money.

[Zoomic]

I also have read where people unknowingly bought a cloned trezor hardware and they were hacked.  Alot of efforts needs to be put in place while securing and set up these wallets. Be it hardware or airgapped software.

There have been various types of hardware wallet-related scams in the past. The problem is that people rely too much on google search and the ads the service generates. That's one way they are led to a fake site offering fake Electrum software. connected to the data leak by Ledger and its partner company.

Permit me to go a little of topic here.
Before my arrival to this forum, someone offered to pay me big while I help them use my Google account and set up ads for their company. I would have agreed due to some convincing reasons they gave, just that it will involve my credit cards and so. I declined the request even when the process was close to complete.

Few weeks or months later, I was greatly surprised to see the project I declined to promote on the first page of google ranking and it was a cloned website. It was there my idea of google changed  and taking everything from google search serious stopped.

You should also never trust recommendations given by random people on social media or follow links from unknown users on Telegram.

I have known this as a red flag. When someone you don't know is 100% willing to help without a fee. It is only in this forum people genuinely help and for free

Ask and learn, so you don't put yourself in a position of losing your money.

I do not pretend to know more than I actually know. There's no need pretending when there are people to help. As a good learn, I am not even ashamed to ask even if the simplest question. The worse scenario would be that I won't get a response, but then no one will flag my account.

[o_e_l_e_o]

It was there my idea of google changed  and taking everything from google search serious stopped.

I have spoken at length on this forum about how nobody should trust Google for anything, ever. They will happily host and promote scams, phishing, malicious software, and worse, as long as they get paid. They will actively spy on all their users and sell/share your data with literally anyone who will pay for it. They are the antithesis of security and privacy.

Google are your enemy.

[Zoomic]

It was there my idea of google changed  and taking everything from google search serious stopped.

I have spoken at length on this forum about how nobody should trust Google for anything, ever. They will happily host and promote scams, phishing, malicious software, and worse, as long as they get paid. They will actively spy on all their users and sell/share your data with literally anyone who will pay for it. They are the antithesis of security and privacy.

Google are your enemy.

In fact, they will happily accept money from scammers to place adverts for said scams at the top of your results page. They don't care if you get scammed, as long as they can get your data.

This explains the scenario I talked about above. You nailed it. I remember the last Ponzi scam I investigated for someone was an app listed on playstore. I was forced to think why google will simply and easily list a scam app without any kind of investigations about the project.

Talking about harvesting our data. Recently I moved from my location to a new location where I have to spend about 120 days. Not conversant with the area I relied on a taxi that used google map services. I was going everywhere with the aid of google map. But one night as I was checking my phone, I opened the app and clicked my travel history and discovered that everywhere I moved in that city was recorded and they were accurate.
I honestly became afraid, what if one person at the backend of the google maps works with kidnappers? I feel unsafe now and I have limited my movement.
But the reality is that many and including me are unioned with google activities, can I succefully do without them?

[o_e_l_e_o]

I honestly became afraid, what if one person at the backend of the google maps works with kidnappers? I feel unsafe now and I have limited my movement.

At the very least there should be options somewhere in your Google account to turn off this kind of locations history. Personally I don't think it makes any difference. Google probably still collect that data, they'll just no longer show it to you in your account history.

But the reality is that many and including me are unioned with google activities, can I succefully do without them?

I won't lie and say it easy to avoid all privacy invading companies and services, but it is certainly possible. For everything Google offers, there is a privacy respecting alternative. For Google Search - DDG, Startpage, SearXNG. For Chrome - Tor or Firefox. For Gmail - ProtonMail. And so on. Here are a couple of great resources to get you start on looking for alternatives:

https://prism-break.org/en/
https://www.privacyguides.org/en/tools/

Even if you don't go for maximum privacy like some of us, anything you can do limit your data being harvested is a good move.

[Zoomic]

At the very least there should be options somewhere in your Google account to turn off this kind of locations history. Personally I don't think it makes any difference. Google probably still collect that data, they'll just no longer show it to you in your account history.

This sounds scary but that is the brutal truth. Stopping to show me my data history in my mobile does not erase it from their server.

https://prism-break.org/en/
https://www.privacyguides.org/en/tools/

The more I follow you the deeper you go... this privacy guides link is a bomb. I think I'm gonna sleep in the site tonight. Thanks for that.

Even if you don't go for maximum privacy like some of us, anything you can do limit your data being harvested is a good move.

Surest statement. I'm coming gradually, I know in few years time I'll be a privacy man.

[apogio]

I honestly became afraid, what if one person at the backend of the google maps works with kidnappers? I feel unsafe now and I have limited my movement.

At the very least there should be options somewhere in your Google account to turn off this kind of locations history. Personally I don't think it makes any difference. Google probably still collect that data, they'll just no longer show it to you in your account history.

But the reality is that many and including me are unioned with google activities, can I succefully do without them?

I won't lie and say it easy to avoid all privacy invading companies and services, but it is certainly possible. For everything Google offers, there is a privacy respecting alternative. For Google Search - DDG, Startpage, SearXNG. For Chrome - Tor or Firefox. For Gmail - ProtonMail. And so on. Here are a couple of great resources to get you start on looking for alternatives:

https://prism-break.org/en/
https://www.privacyguides.org/en/tools/

Even if you don't go for maximum privacy like some of us, anything you can do limit your data being harvested is a good move.

What is your opinion ragarding Microsoft products (Bing, outlook, edge etc). I am specifically interested in knowing whether they invade our privacy the way Google does. I mean a lot is heard about privacy and Google, but I haven't heard quite a lot about MS. At least personally.

[o_e_l_e_o]

What is your opinion ragarding Microsoft products (Bing, outlook, edge etc). I am specifically interested in knowing whether they invade our privacy the way Google does. I mean a lot is heard about privacy and Google, but I haven't heard quite a lot about MS. At least personally.

Google is easily the worst offender, but Microsoft isn't exactly far behind. Part of the problem is that most people interact with Microsoft via their OS, which can therefore monitor everything that happens on that device. Here's a post I made a few years ago about Windows 10: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5190776.msg52685703#msg52685703

By all accounts, Windows 11 is even worse, and I'm sure future OSs from Microsoft will be no different.

Thankfully, it is very easy to avoid Microsoft. Just pick a Linux distro of your choice and you are pretty much done. Since you should already be using privacy respecting browsers, search engines, etc., as I mentioned above to avoid Google, then you will also be avoiding Microsoft.

[apogio]

What is your opinion ragarding Microsoft products (Bing, outlook, edge etc). I am specifically interested in knowing whether they invade our privacy the way Google does. I mean a lot is heard about privacy and Google, but I haven't heard quite a lot about MS. At least personally.

Google is easily the worst offender, but Microsoft isn't exactly far behind. Part of the problem is that most people interact with Microsoft via their OS, which can therefore monitor everything that happens on that device. Here's a post I made a few years ago about Windows 10: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5190776.msg52685703#msg52685703

By all accounts, Windows 11 is even worse, and I'm sure future OSs from Microsoft will be no different.

Thankfully, it is very easy to avoid Microsoft. Just pick a Linux distro of your choice and you are pretty much done. Since you should already be using privacy respecting browsers, search engines, etc., as I mentioned above to avoid Google, then you will also be avoiding Microsoft.

Thanks for the link. I tend to agree with you. In fact I think both those companies have penetrated our lives.

Personally I don't use any social media. So I have tried to keep my life private. But I reckon I have much to do... I use Google in my life and I have to get rid of them. I switched to duck duck go for starters. I will migrate to another email provider too