Ledger hardware wallet offering custody for seed backups

[adaseb]

A lot of people are smashing their ledgers into pieces when they announced a service to custody people’s seeds. This sparked outrage because it makes it possible for the secret seed to be extracted from the device.

A year ago or so they claimed it’s impossible for the seed to leave the device and now they are claiming it’s possible.

No funds were stolen but it seems that hardware wallets aren’t as safe as people assumed. The biggest issue here is that it’s not open source and no one can verify if it’s actually secure.

What are your thoughts?

[Faisal2202]

A year ago or so they claimed it’s impossible for the seed to leave the device and now they are claiming it’s possible.
No funds were stolen but it seems that hardware wallets aren’t as safe as people assumed. The biggest issue here is that it’s not open source and no one can verify if it’s actually secure.
What are your thoughts?

TBH, i am not on the list of people who have smashed their ledgers into pieces as the "Ledger Recover" updates is yet to be released and another reason is i own no ledger (haha), well, but i am also afraid of this, because at first when a person asks ways to save there BTC? we bluntly recommend them Hardware Wallets, Such as Ledger and Trazer, Even yesterday i have recommended a newbie to buy a Hardware wallet but other experienced members has already guided me with the situation. But, i think there is no good in making noise before its release because now we at least know that it's possible for ledger companies to break encryption in our HW. And, it is confirmed now, so the point is why not test it so that we can at least know the possibilities and scenarios it could make?

If Ledger can do that the razor might also do that? How to confirm that? my thoughts are we should not put all of our assets in one type of hardware wallet such as a ledger we should diversify them in different company's wallet addresses. or we should follow big icons like Micro Strategy's CEO Michael Saylor so that we can learn how they store there BTC for so long.

[crypticj]

That's why I stopped using Ledger. It's literally the opposite of what crypto should be. And it's sad where this is all going. It feels like soon all exchanges and wallets will be centralized and there will be no more freedom and anonymity.

So for everyone who is using Ledger and thinks that this update won't touch you, just know that this means that Ledger HAS the technology to KNOW your seed phrase. It means it saves it somewhere and can back it up even without your agreement if needed.

[Vickysagar]

I think that Ledger messed up and now people look into other hard wallets. But I never used one, I'm keeping my Bitcoin with other coins in OWNR wallet since I don't have too much and keep my seed phrase on paper in 2 hidden copies.

[EarnOnVictor]

The complete privacy and anonymity of Bitcoin were what we thought initially, but what we thought was untraceable later become known to be traceable. For the issue of the seed phare, I've always been wondering if wallets could truly be truthful in their saying that they did not know your seed phrase. Although this is the first place I would read about this, it was the ordinal consideration that was my headache with Ledger before I read this.

If it's true, then one should be so careful of their Bitcoin in wallets, it will now be the integrity of the wallet you are using that can safeguard your Bitcoin. And it would surely prove that many of the supposed hacking of the past where BTC were stolen might not be truly hacking but the wallet propaganda to steal coins from one's account.

[sokani]

A lot of people are smashing their ledgers into pieces when they announced a service to custody people’s seeds. This sparked outrage because it makes it possible for the secret seed to be extracted from the device.

The company is not forcing anyone to subscribe to the service. It is an opt-in subscription seed phrase recovery service that attracts $9.99 per month. You have the choice to choose whether to subscribe or not. So I don't see the reason why anyone should smash his or her hardware device.

TBH, i am not on the list of people who have smashed their ledgers into pieces as the "Ledger Recover" updates is yet to be released and another reason is i own no ledger.  

It was officially launched yesterday.

But, i think there is no good in making noise before its release because now we at least know that it's possible for ledger companies to break encryption in our HW. And, it is confirmed now, so the point is why not test it so that we can at least know the possibilities and scenarios it could make?

I believe all the security parameters must have been checked but personally I still have my doubts and I don't feel comfortable having my seed phrase backed up on the ledger. At some point, an hacker can find a loophole to steal people's private seed phrase and funds.

[DeathAngel]

They’ve betrayed trust & destroyed the whole reason people buy & use them. It’s a disgrace to be honest, I have to wonder if this is some kind of regulatory pressure from governments. I just can not believe they would implement something like this. There are points of failure in most ways to HODL your coins but this is ridiculous. A sad sight tbh, not good.

[Aikidoka]

To be honest, I don't own any Ledger product and I'm glad I didn't especially after their recent announcement about sharing the seedphrase backup with third-party entities. This decision kinda break the trust that has been built over years with their users.

I know that there's no funds have been stolen yet but this move is concerning because many people rely on Ledger devices to safeguard their life savings in Bitcoin. It's not something to take lightly; these users prioritize security and privacy. Personally, I prefer using an air-gapped device that I own and have full control over rather than relying on a hardware device released by a company that introduces updates that could potentially putting my funds at risk.

I value my ability to secure my funds and protect my private keys/seed phrase. I don't appreciate Ledger making decisions that assume otherwise.

[Solosanz]

There are two thread has been created about this particular discussions:
1. ALERT Ledger Secure Element
2. Ledger Recovery - Send your (encrypted) recovery phrase to 3rd parties entities

You can check yourself there are many users have giving their own opinions.

My opinion is people need to consider to set up their own cold storage rather than trusting a centralized company to create a hardware wallet. Right now, trezor looks safer than ledger, but no one knows what trezor will do in the future.

I think that Ledger messed up and now people look into other hard wallets.

People in this forum, not sure with people outside this forum because most of them didn't even own hardware wallet and learn about non custodial wallet.

[Synchronice]

The more I think about this announcement, the more shocked I get. This literally means that Ledger, its partner companies and governments will know the identity of hardware wallet owners and in case there is a need, they can seize funds of any of their user.
This move can change the situation for whole crypto market, I'm happy that critics come from every corner towards Ledger, wonder if there is a statement about this from Trezor and other companies in near future.

Every Ledger owner should immediately change their hardware wallet or find a different way to store their coins. I genuinely believe that there is a high chance that planned or accidental data breach may happen and everyone will lose their coins, nothing to say about compromising of your identity.

I'm finally confident to say that when it comes to bitcoin wallet creation, I prefer to stick with my very old computer than with any modern hardware.

[348Judah]

A year ago or so they claimed it’s impossible for the seed to leave the device and now they are claiming it’s possible.
No funds were stolen but it seems that hardware wallets aren’t as safe as people assumed. The biggest issue here is that it’s not open source and no one can verify if it’s actually secure.
What are your thoughts?

TBH, i am not on the list of people who have smashed their ledgers into pieces as the "Ledger Recover" updates is yet to be released and another reason is i own no ledger (haha), well, but i am also afraid of this, because at first when a person asks ways to save there BTC? we bluntly recommend them Hardware Wallets, Such as Ledger and Trazer, Even yesterday i have recommended a newbie to buy a Hardware wallet but other experienced members has already guided me with the situation. But, i think there is no good in making noise before its release because now we at least know that it's possible for ledger companies to break encryption in our HW. And, it is confirmed now, so the point is why not test it so that we can at least know the possibilities and scenarios it could make?

If Ledger can do that the razor might also do that? How to confirm that? my thoughts are we should not put all of our assets in one type of hardware wallet such as a ledger we should diversify them in different company's wallet addresses. or we should follow big icons like Micro Strategy's CEO Michael Saylor so that we can learn how they store there BTC for so long.

If you think you are to remain more secured in a well and advanced way, it's better to seek for this security with bitcoincore, download the software and rule the nodes, this is the highest and advanced way to remain free from any form of doubtedness in keeping our asset secured.

If you're using any form of non custodial wallet under cold storage, then esure that's it's on a airgapped device which is not connected to the internet, electrum wallet is another better option in the his category, ensure you download it from their official website, but as for me, I wouldn't armit giving my KYC information to any of this seller of hardware wallet or use their service to secure my private keys or seedphrase.

[Wind_FURY]

What are your thoughts?

Thoughts? Simple.

Don't update your firmware if you already own a Ledger, don't buy a Ledger if you don't own one. Buy a Trezor, preferably a Trezor One because it has lower attack vectors.

We can't trust a company which was breached in the past before. Plus how can we verify that they haven't already backdoored their devices?

[Cryptomultiplier]

The more I think about this announcement, the more shocked I get. This literally means that Ledger, its partner companies and governments will know the identity of hardware wallet owners and in case there is a need, they can seize funds of any of their user.
This move can change the situation for whole crypto market, I'm happy that critics come from every corner towards Ledger, wonder if there is a statement about this from Trezor and other companies in near future.

Every Ledger owner should immediately change their hardware wallet or find a different way to store their coins. I genuinely believe that there is a high chance that planned or accidental data breach may happen and everyone will lose their coins, nothing to say about compromising of your identity.

I'm finally confident to say that when it comes to bitcoin wallet creation, I prefer to stick with my very old computer than with any modern hardware.

What will be the assurance that the change to another hardware wallet won't make same announcement later?
I think this is a more penetrative means by government to get to the root of identifying every individual portfolio and wallets.
One thing that never fails to beat my imagination is that new wallets would be created by genius minds who have come to embrace the anonymity that crypto currency has offered.
Unless, no one is made an example of by the hardware wallet's new policy, then persons would opt for means to prevent their seed from being backed up by the wallet, as a prerequisite for limited storage of their coins.

[BlackBoss_]

A lot of people are smashing their ledgers into pieces when they announced a service to custody people’s seeds. This sparked outrage because it makes it possible for the secret seed to be extracted from the device.

Moving coins to a new wallet (not Ledger) and keep your Ledger wallet as a collectible. It might have some higher value in future when people look at history of Ledger and their wallet products.

A year ago or so they claimed it’s impossible for the seed to leave the device and now they are claiming it’s possible.

They can change their minds and build new products, services but if they break basics to keep coins safely, it's bad no matter what types of product and service they want to build and release.

No funds were stolen but it seems that hardware wallets aren’t as safe as people assumed. The biggest issue here is that it’s not open source and no one can verify if it’s actually secure.

Just not yet. We don't know what will happen but fundamentally and technically, their latest movement is bad and it potentially causes something bad for their users.

What are your thoughts?

Stop using it. Don't buy any new Ledger wallets in future.

[livingfree]

AFAIK, this is still on the beta phase and Ledger's community and customers feedback isn't as interesting as it may seem and it's the opposite of the probable respond they'll get.

So by reading the feature on their website, it is not them that will actually do this feature but it's the company named Coincover.

Ledger Recover by Coincover

It's said that those who owns the old version Nano S aren't going to be affected much by only those that owns the newer model which is the X.

That's the service and it's a terrible additional service they've made. The response of the community that has been helping and supporting them all over the years is unwelcoming.

This makes me don't trust my Ledger anymore and will have to switch to Trezor.

[m2017]

A lot of people are smashing their ledgers into pieces when they announced a service to custody people’s seeds. This sparked outrage because it makes it possible for the secret seed to be extracted from the device.

A year ago or so they claimed it’s impossible for the seed to leave the device and now they are claiming it’s possible.

No funds were stolen but it seems that hardware wallets aren’t as safe as people assumed. The biggest issue here is that it’s not open source and no one can verify if it’s actually secure.

What are your thoughts?

I think that should not trust financial assets to anyone. There will always be a risk that the custodian, if he has the opportunity, will want to take someone else's.

Big hardware wallet manufacturers are gradually turning into a kind of banks. It looks like you are giving them your crypto for safekeeping and you have to trust them completely. Just for a word.

In the light of recent events (news about Ledger and Trezor), it seems that the time has come for people to reconsider their attitude towards hardware wallets. Where once these were reliable storage devices, security is now at risk. The most unpleasant thing about this is that the danger doesn't come from intruders or hackers, but from the manufacturer itself. It would seem that it sounds like nonsense, but we are all eyewitnesses of what is happening.

Only the owner should have access to the seed phrase and no HW device manufacturer has any right to claim it. It doesn't matter under what pretexts it is served.

[KiaKia]

I think that Ledger messed up and now people look into other hard wallets. But I never used one, I'm keeping my Bitcoin with other coins in OWNR wallet since I don't have too much and keep my seed phrase on paper in 2 hidden copies.

I've heard about OWNR, how cool is this wallet? I guess it's another Trust wallet like aka hot wallet, it seems the best way is to write down recovery seeds and keep them offline, most hardware wallets are having issues I don't know why, there was one that look like a complete Android phone, so nice looking, I thought it will be the most secured hardware wallet until people start complaining about missing assets in the wallet, some said it's a bug and now I don't have interest in such hardware wallet ever again, if same thing happen with ledger then people will have no choice but to abandon Ledger and buy other hardware wallet.

[serjent05]

I believe the Ledger company will come to its senses when people start avoiding their Ledger wallets.  It is really absurd offer/upgrade when most of the cryptocurrency gurus advise people to keep their wallets offline.  When veterans are informing people to keep their private key offline and keep away from the internet, ledger offers a service of saving private keys on cloud storage.  Are they nuts?  I think this action will kill the company, I hope it won't be late for them to readjust in the future.

AFAIK, this is still on the beta phase and Ledger's community and customers feedback isn't as interesting as it may seem and it's the opposite of the probable respond they'll get.

I hope they listen to their community and revert back to the original idea and kick out the person who suggested that idea. 

[AbuBhakar]

A lot of people are smashing their ledgers into pieces when they announced a service to custody people’s seeds. This sparked outrage because it makes it possible for the secret seed to be extracted from the device.

A year ago or so they claimed it’s impossible for the seed to leave the device and now they are claiming it’s possible.

No funds were stolen but it seems that hardware wallets aren’t as safe as people assumed. The biggest issue here is that it’s not open source and no one can verify if it’s actually secure.

What are your thoughts?

So this means all the suggestion about using hardware wallet such as ledger is a lie? How come no one audit their product code before it was release to the market. All of the person that advertised it as safe should be penalized in case damage is done? 

JK

I’m prepared that something like this is possible since they can be considered as centralized since no one do an audit to them. That's why air gapped DIY wallet is still the best rather than wallet that being manufactured by somebody since you will still need to trust the manufacturer for the integrity of the product since there is no way for us to check the code or software manually. I have a ledger but it's absurd to crash it now while my funds is safe on it for a long time.

[Kakmakr]

People are making a huge deal about something that is not nearly as big as it is being sold to the misinformed. This added recovery feature, come as a subscription option and you have to pay for that, so not a lot of people are going to opt-in for that extra feature.

We know Ledger were hacked a few years ago.... and a lot of people's information were stolen.. then criminals used that data to launch targeted Phishing attacks on those clients.... so why will people trust them now?