Ledger Confirmed That Government Can Get Access To Your Fund

[Fivestar4everMVP]

Few days ago, I came across a topic on this forum discussing that ledger now gives customers to option to store their wallet seed phrase through a cloud service within the wallet, several users, not just on this forum but also outside this forum, expressed deep concern as no one is sure any longer on the true privacy of the ledger hardware wallet..

Going through a channel I subscribed to on telegram this afternoon, I found this information which states that "Ledger Confirmed that the government can get access to customers funds - though I tried to do some research to ascertain the validity of this information, that is, to try and get the real source of the information (since it was not shared on the telegram post) to make sure it's authentic, but all efforts proved abortive since I am not sure about the social media the screenshot was taken from - here is the shot..

Though like I said earlier, I've not been able to verify the authenticity of this information, but then, if this information be true, then I think we all should be very careful with ledger devices - privacy wise.

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[Wiwo]

A few days ago, I came across a topic on this forum discussing that ledger now gives customers to option to store their wallet seed phrase through a cloud service within the wallet, several users, not just on this forum but also outside this forum, expressed deep concern as no one is sure any longer on the true privacy of the ledger hardware wallet.

Let's say we put aside the news regardless, but focus on the discussion which is about the security of users' funds and how to save it, but the things are wallet seeds storage and access to customers' wallets to the government or any other access granted be it authorized or hacked is a violation of user right and ledgers must make full refunds if the user lost any balance on the wallet.

Centralization is spreading wide and Bitcoin users are losing total control of funds and decentralized financing, at this point one needs to keep a close tap with your wallet to monitor what is happening because a lot is happening lately to both decentralized and centralized wallet storage and safety of funds.

[Nwada001]

This is likely to happen in any way. The ledger's first mistake is to even integrate an option that will allow users to backup their phrases to an online storage (where is the decentralized and privacy protection here?).

We know there is so much concern regarding how users are losing their funds on a daily basis, but those losses are most often caused by user carelessness, which should not be used to justify what the entire customer wants. There could also be a possibility that they might actually have user data, especially for those who got the new wallet after the cloud update.

It's always safer when you don't have access to something at all than having it and telling someone that their secret is safe with you. If the government finds out that users wallet access is in the hands of the ledger management, they can request immediate access to it with any fabricated excuse, and any register company will find it hard to refuse a compliance with the fed.

But assets could get frozen.

No, they can't freeze the funds on the user's wallet since those funds are not on a centralized platform but are under each phrase or private key that makes up the wallet. You can always import your phrase using another wallet and move out your funds, but what they can do is help you empty your wallet and send you a notification to come clean and claim your funds.

[tranthidung]

You can lose your seeds, your keys, your coins if you lose 2 or 3 shards. It can be from a subpoena or data breach or hacks any two of three shard providers. You don't know what will happen with those providers.

That is very bad as your seeds, keys will no longer be only controlled by you. After they made that announcement on the firmware upgrade on 16 May and got massively panic responses from communities, they tried to say the initial announcement is lack of details and claim that they will make their wallet open source soon.

I don't trust them so neither you. It is safest to control your keys only by yourself and hardware wallet is only one of way to achieve it. Ledger hardware wallets now are no longer provide you that security.

[PX-Z]

Few days ago, I came across a topic on this forum discussing that ledger now gives customers to option to store their wallet seed phrase through a cloud service within the wallet, several users, not just on this forum but also outside this forum, expressed deep concern as no one is sure any longer on the true privacy of the ledger hardware wallet..

This is more likely a security concern than privacy. It said an "option" but you can chose to ignore it.

I don't know what kind of thoughts Ledger have when they can't held responsible of the customer data breached incident happened to them before and now they will try to have a service to "protect" their users on their very own storage cloud service, the audacity.

[Charles-Tim]

I do not know how true that is, but without the news, we should know that you have no privacy if you opt-in for (that kind of) third-party backup. Keep your seed phrase offline as usual and never believe in anyone. Bitcoin should be used not in a way you have to trust anyone.

Centralization is spreading wide and Bitcoin users are losing total control of funds and decentralized financing, at this point one needs to keep a close tap with your wallet to monitor what is happening because a lot is happening lately to both decentralized and centralized wallet storage and safety of funds.

There is nothing happening to bitcoin decentralization, it is still intact. Some people will only just not have the knowledge and fall for this kind of thing, just as some people prefer to store their coins on exchanges.

[bettercrypto]

I did watch on youtube this issue with the ledger which seems to have a problem or issue. And the solution made by the ledger is for their users that if the seed phrase is lost, they can still recover it by accessing the fund here.

       But many people are worried about this because it appears that the users have no privacy because they will be asked for KYC, something that is not good in my opinion. Maybe just replace it with another hardware wallet that is better than the ledger, after all there are also many newly released hardware wallets that are better than the ledger and more secure.

[entebah]

Though like I said earlier, I've not been able to verify the authenticity of this information, but then, if this information be true, then I think we all should be very careful with ledger devices - privacy wise.

if this is confirmed to be true then I think many people will not use this wallet anymore because the government can have access to it.
for me, the only hardware wallet I trust now only Trezor Wallet, they will stay like this and not make the same steps as Ledger did.

[terencio]

This is very alarming. I didn't know that the government could access customers' funds. It is important to store your seed phrase offline in a safe place. This will help to protect your funds from unauthorized access.

[Beparanf]

I’m not updated on what’s happening on Ledger but this news makes me regret on buying this piece shit instead of trezor or other hardware wallet. I thought Ledger is the best due to the wide support of the crypto community but they proven useless in the presence of regulators. I think they are being pressured by regulators to do this kind of stuff from behind since they are perfectly producing ledger hardware wallets without a problem for a long time.

Please enlighten me, Does this firmware update is mandatory or I can ignore the latest  update and still use my hardware wallet normally. This recovery feature is bullshit and now they are making it worse by allowing the government to access my keys.

[DaveF]

And....it's not like anyone did not think that once you upload your seed to a someplace else that the government could not get to it.

Let's also be honest here, if the government shows up at your house with a court order / search warrant unless you want to spend some time in jail or have the finances to fight them it's not like you are not going to give up the same information. We would all like to say that there is no way we would give it up, but lets be hones with ourselves. There are very few people here that would spend tons of money and risk jail just not to give up some information.

* Unless you were committing other crimes and wanted to hid it.
** It's still a really crap idea to give up your private keys to ANYPLACE else
***Ledger has had so many issues in the past that it's probably worse to give them your keys then some other people.

-Dave

[Hamza2424]

Haha Seems funny or What? Are they really trying to say that they are hypocrites (but they are not because we already know the reality) and they want to ruin their reputation? Are they trying to say leave us if you are using our products because now we are gonna sell up your fund's details to the government, and gonna give them access to your funds because you wanted self custody and now we are gonna remove it?

Why we choose hardware wallets because these are cold storage and feel safer and now they gonna watch out for our activity and gonna give access to our custodial funds so somehow our own funds can be used to blackmail us. Seems like a new found by the regulators to target the main feature that the community owns (Self Custody).

[Wiwo]

There is nothing happening to Bitcoin decentralization, it is still intact. Some people will only just not know and fall for this kind of thing, just as some people prefer to store their coins on exchanges.

I agree with you on that, and I do not doubt the decentralization of Bitcoin, and what we must settle with is that self custodial wallet is the best form of Bitcoin ownership and security, and anything outside that in the form of third-party storage is targeted to take control of your asset.

[KingsDen]

Not only about Ledger in this case. Almost every entity is willing to give out your information to government if found coupable or under serious investigation. Anyone who wants to live a 100% private life should also ensure that there is no cockroach in his/her cupboard. The government is too powerful and I have learnt from others mistake so many times. The government is not isolated but connected.
If you want to be private, just go there 100% and pay any amount it will cost to be private. Once you are exposed in one way, they will get you from the loophole.

Even if Ledger doesn't disclose your funds to government, if the government come for it themselves, you will surely disclose it.

[Stalker22]

Though like I said earlier, I've not been able to verify the authenticity of this information, but then, if this information be true, then I think we all should be very careful with ledger devices - privacy wise.

if this is confirmed to be true then I think many people will not use this wallet anymore because the government can have access to it.
for me, the only hardware wallet I trust now only Trezor Wallet, they will stay like this and not make the same steps as Ledger did.

No doubt about it! This has been confirmed by multiple Ledger officials, so it is pretty solid information. Ledger has made it clear that for their "Recover" service, they will be handing over user's private data to external companies registered in the EU and US. It is not surprising, really. We all know that law enforcement agencies in those jurisdictions collaborate closely when it comes to investigations and prosecutions.

So, it is pretty obvious that if any legal issues come up, there is a chance that user's private information could be accessed and used in those investigations. It is definitely something to keep in mind when considering the risks and benefits of using such a service.

It is a bit sad, though, that many newcomers to the crypto might not be aware or concerned about these aspects. It is just like when people trusted centralized services like the FTX exchange to hold their funds, and we all know how that turned out.

[coolcoinz]

I’m not updated on what’s happening on Ledger but this news makes me regret on buying this piece shit instead of trezor or other hardware wallet. I thought Ledger is the best due to the wide support of the crypto community but they proven useless in the presence of regulators. I think they are being pressured by regulators to do this kind of stuff from behind since they are perfectly producing ledger hardware wallets without a problem for a long time.

Please enlighten me, Does this firmware update is mandatory or I can ignore the latest  update and still use my hardware wallet normally. This recovery feature is bullshit and now they are making it worse by allowing the government to access my keys.

I think that it was cheaper and more compact than Trezor. I'm talking about 2019 when I bought mine. At the time it was a decent option and I've got mine in person from a physical store, so I did not have to share any personal information with Ledger and avoided the leak.
As long as the cloud update isn't enforced and you can decide not to do it (unless you cannot, but you should be able to, at least for now), I see nothing wrong with this. The problem will start if they one day decide that unless you do the update you won't be able to use the device. In such case I'll probably do it and immediately move my funds, to protect them from theft.

[boyptc]

It's still an opt-in feature but it's crazy that it might go enforced to everyone if they want to. This is crazy in all honesty.

Few days ago, I came across a topic on this forum discussing that ledger now gives customers to option to store their wallet seed phrase through a cloud service within the wallet, several users, not just on this forum but also outside this forum, expressed deep concern as no one is sure any longer on the true privacy of the ledger hardware wallet..

I have been advocating to never store private keys and/or seeds to any cloud storage and services and even if it takes Ledger to make them trustworthy, I will still not keep my seeds there.

The twist is that, it's not them that will keep the seeds but by a trusted third-party of theirs and that's even make it more scarier because even it is them that shall keep it, no way and I'll never entrust it to them.

[ajiz138]

Few days ago, I came across a topic on this forum discussing that ledger now gives customers to option to store their wallet seed phrase through a cloud service within the wallet, several users, not just on this forum but also outside this forum, expressed deep concern as no one is sure any longer on the true privacy of the ledger hardware wallet..

This is more likely a security concern than privacy. It said an "option" but you can chose to ignore it.

I don't know what kind of thoughts Ledger have when they can't held responsible of the customer data breached incident happened to them before and now they will try to have a service to "protect" their users on their very own storage cloud service, the audacity.

Even though there is an option to ignore, the community will be very worried about the policies they make, what will happen if they are required to store data in their cloud?

Of course it will be a lot of contra to what Ledger is doing recently, I even saw several videos of several communities having switched to other devices because they no longer believe in Ledger as secure hardware even though there is a security service that they make.

[panganib999]

I do not know how true that is, but without the news, we should know that you have no privacy if you opt-in for (that kind of) third-party backup. Keep your seed phrase offline as usual and never believe in anyone. Bitcoin should be used not in a way you have to trust anyone.

Centralization is spreading wide and Bitcoin users are losing total control of funds and decentralized financing, at this point one needs to keep a close tap with your wallet to monitor what is happening because a lot is happening lately to both decentralized and centralized wallet storage and safety of funds.

There is nothing happening to bitcoin decentralization, it is still intact. Some people will only just not have the knowledge and fall for this kind of thing, just as some people prefer to store their coins on exchanges.

Point taken. It's peer to peer, not trust your peers in the bitcoin industry. This only solidifies that notion. Now this means you literally can't have anyone get a hold of your bitcoins otherwise you risk losing them through hackings, and now through the government issuing a subpoena and therefore accessing your funds which I must say is a massive dick move. I'll stick to cold wallets that would never see the light of the internet except for rare occasions. Can never trust anyone anymore these days.

It's still an opt-in feature but it's crazy that it might go enforced to everyone if they want to. This is crazy in all honesty.

Few days ago, I came across a topic on this forum discussing that ledger now gives customers to option to store their wallet seed phrase through a cloud service within the wallet, several users, not just on this forum but also outside this forum, expressed deep concern as no one is sure any longer on the true privacy of the ledger hardware wallet..

I have been advocating to never store private keys and/or seeds to any cloud storage and services and even if it takes Ledger to make them trustworthy, I will still not keep my seeds there.

The twist is that, it's not them that will keep the seeds but by a trusted third-party of theirs and that's even make it more scarier because even it is them that shall keep it, no way and I'll never entrust it to them.

Everything starts as an opt-in feature, and then through the sheer pressure of the government or the userbase, they'll soon start implementing it as a mandatory feature. You can't make this up, this has been the staple in this industry.

[bittraffic]

Ledger is working closely with the government that's what it is. They may not even need a subpoena to access your account. They'd just go ahead and go ahead and because it's not an opensource the Ledger company could even freeze your coins if not sent to another wallet.

For users who bought a Ledger wallet and have used it before this update, there must have been paranoia already. If I did have a ledger, I must have sent my coins already the day after the announcement.