Crimes of signatures campaign affects forum?

[Jawhead999]

This is not about the signature campaign per se, but the project posted in this forum. If the project broke the US laws, I'm pretty sure the thread would the removed and the user data might be shared with third party.

Ross Ulbricht aka Silk Road CEO was a big case before and Ross Ulbricht use this forum to promote his project. Currently Ross Ulbricht is still in jail, if the US regulator is taking serious, this forum should get shut down at that time. But this forum is still exist, this mean an illegal project is still not enough to get shut down, maybe until Bitcoin is completely illegal in US.

I'm not really sure about your questions about government investigation, but let me cite our dear administrator again:

This is not very surprising/interesting, but I thought I'd mention that I received a subpoena for information related to Ross Ulbricht's alleged forum account altoid

+1

I just wanted to mention Ross Ulbricht when I read this thread.

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[elevates]

If you are fearing the US or a European country then chill! The staff is now not promoting any mixer campaign. The owner of this forum has never used his/her signature space and further, the owner has stopped selling advertisement space.

My point is that why do you think there would be a crime happening when promoting a project using the signature campaign? Did you even try to find out which other forums pay you weekly for advertising a signature?

I bet you have not and that is the reason you created this topic. Do understand you have now become not an ideal candidate for a Signature Campaign. Although I am not a BM, I think some of them would take this topic into consideration and believe you as a user who might question them and their campaign when selected.

If your ultimate goal is to just be active and create engaging topics then I think this topic is justified. Considering your activities in the African board I think it was foolish to question the Signature campaign and associate it with criminal activities.

Best of Luck!!

[robelneo]

I have taught of this seriously and I began to have a biased concern to bitcointalk if any signatures campaigns in bitcointalk can affects the existence of bitcointalk if they commit a crime that leads to government investigations.

So far none, there are scam platforms openly promoting here in Bitcointalk, but they are considered third party based on section 260, it's different if the forum is accepting money for advertisement this is openly endorsing a platform.

Secondly do we believe that bitcointalk can  be obstructed by government if their is a noticeable crime by the management?

Yes, it is possible based on their privacy, this could be the reason why they restrict staff from promoting mixers.
https://bitcointalk.org/privacy.php

Bitcointalk.org is in US jurisdiction, and is subject to US subpoenas, wiretap orders, preservation orders (which would negate the above retention rules), and similar. Furthermore, our service providers could also be subject to similar orders without our knowledge.

From my understanding it seems to me that bitcoin existence is different from the bitcointalk forum and without the existence of bitcointalk forum bitcoin will continue existing, what's your take on this.

Yes definitely Bitcoin is not dependent on Bitcointalk but Bitcointalk is dependent on Bitcoin, this is why this forum is called Bitcointalk.

[_BlackStar]

I don't understand why the OP seems so concerned about some mixer services being promoted via signature campaigns. Laws differ from country to country, so this discussion will not be finish and come to a conclusion unless the government issues an official regulation on this issue.

From my understanding it seems to me that bitcoin existence is different from the bitcointalk forum and without the existence of bitcointalk forum bitcoin will continue existing, what's your take on this.

Yes definitely Bitcoin is not dependent on Bitcointalk but Bitcointalk is dependent on Bitcoin, this is why this forum is called Bitcointalk.

Bitcointalk is the best forum for the community to discuss anything, not only about price speculation and investment strategies - but also about project development and more.

[leonair]

I have taught of this seriously and I began to have a biased concern to bitcointalk if any signatures campaigns in bitcointalk can affects the existence of bitcointalk if they commit a crime that leads to government investigations.

Bitcointalk is a public forum where any user can create a topic and any user can manage a campaign. here the forum does not block anything or boost any campaign to get more publicity. so the forum will not be responsible for any illegal activities and will not have any effect on the forum. there are DT members, they give red tag and red flag on any account where illegal activity will be attempted. which means that the owner of that account is a criminal. Forums don't do much more than that. because this is not a company base and the forum is not here to do any business. hence the forum shall not be responsible in any way for any legal or illegal activities

[Fiatless]

I have taught of this seriously and I began to have a biased concern to bitcointalk if any signatures campaigns in bitcointalk can affects the existence of bitcointalk if they commit a crime that leads to government investigations.

This forum is law-abiding and will not intentionally promote illegal or fraudulent services or firm. I said intentionally because some companies can pretend to be genuine but have criminal intentions. The forum will take action against any company that engages in any fraudulent activities and members and others will always be warned to stay away from these firms.

Secondly do we believe that bitcointalk can  be obstructed by government if their is a noticeable crime by the management?

In this crazy world, nothing is impossible. The government can come up with cooked-up allegations especially if they think the forum is a threat to their selfish agenda. It could be a case of giving a dog a bad name because you want to get rid of it.

From my understanding it seems to me that bitcoin existence is different from the bitcointalk forum and without the existence of bitcointalk forum bitcoin will continue existing, what's your take on this.

I have seen people erroneously link mixers, gambling, or a Bitcoin forum to Bitcoin. They sometimes assume that Bitcoin and some concepts are inseparable. But this is untrue because Bitcoin is an independent concept. Other products are all attachments to Bitcoin and the currency can exit and strive without them. Bitcoin forums, gambling, mixers, and can cease to exist but Bitcoin will continue because it doesn't rely on these services.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Signature campaigns, even if they were advertising something illegal, are so small in comparison to other crypto crimes that governments have prosecuted that I seriously doubt they're of any concern to government agencies.  But of course in all honesty I don't have a clue what's going to happen in the future or what agency in which government has eyes on, because there are a lot of them and they don't usually broadcast what they're investigating to the world.

So even with all the scrutiny crypto has been under, campaigns probably aren't even a small blip on the radar of anyone in power, and it's not likely worth the resources to go after either campaign participants or project/exchange/whatever owners for running campaigns.

[Hyphen(-)]

So you want me to believe that no crime of signature campaign that can affects the forum, and if action should be taken if a signatures campaign commit crime that will bring intervention of government the action will go directly to the organisers of that particular signatures campaign, that means that forum is autonomous and everyone is promoting its business will bear the consequences when issue's or when theirs complications of distrust and investigations.

Signature campaigns are simply advertisements or marketing, and as you know, an advertisement requires an active public place to advertise their service, so seeing Bitcointalk as a public forum that discusses Bitcoin and crypto-related topics, this is why all these companies that offer some helpful services related to Bitcoin, gambling using some crypto coins, and mixers tend to use this forum as a means of advertising.

I don't believe the forum will be held liable for any illegal acts that may occur if any firm who advertises on the platform commits a crime, because the forum is not responsible for their conduct.

[NotATether]

Staffs are required to not promote criminal services.

We (staff) were asked to stop advertising mixing services.

As for gambling services, then that's simply because of my religious beliefs.

*sigh*

Mixers are not criminal services, in the same way that Bitcointalk is not a criminal service just because it is used by scammers.

[philipma1957]

I have taught of this seriously and I began to have a biased concern to bitcointalk if any signatures campaigns in bitcointalk can affects the existence of bitcointalk if they commit a crime that leads to government investigations.

First of all, I wish to commend you on this insightful question you just asked, and I will like to give you a brief example. You could all remember there was a signature campaign known as "ChipMixer", and months later we got to noticed it has been seized by the U.S government and under investigation. So did the investigation affect the forum? The answer is "NO", or did its investigation affect it's forum campaign participants? The answer is also "NO".
So in summary @ O.P, that answers your question that an investigation of a signature campaign can never affect the activities of the forum.

Secondly do we believe that bitcointalk can  be obstructed by government if their is a noticeable crime by the management?

For me, I think that can only be possible only if the forum domain is under the host of a government regulated firm, but if the forum has an independent host, then that is likely not going to be possible..
But I stand to be corrected if I'm wrong on this.

From my understanding it seems to me that bitcoin existence is different from the bitcointalk forum and without the existence of bitcointalk forum bitcoin will continue existing, what's your take on this.

The forum was the official place for the discussion of the development of Bitcoin, so it has an important role to play in the continue use of Bitcoin

This idea came to me through what happened to the site of bitcointalk few days ago which I couldn't logins my account for sometimes, I wasn't happy when the incident occur

I thought I was the only one who noticed the domain "error" display few days ago when trying to login the forum, but never knew it was general, and as such that calls for concern, and I hope Sir Theymos needs to do something about it so that such doesn't occur anymore. Thanks

Maybe you are correct ✅ that the feds do not give a shit about this.

[bettercrypto]

I have taught of this seriously and I began to have a biased concern to bitcointalk if any signatures campaigns in bitcointalk can affects the existence of bitcointalk if they commit a crime that leads to government investigations. Secondly do we believe that bitcointalk can  be obstructed by government if their is a noticeable crime by the management? From my understanding it seems to me that bitcoin existence is different from the bitcointalk forum and without the existence of bitcointalk forum bitcoin will continue existing, what's your take on this.
This idea came to me through what happened to the site of bitcointalk few days ago which I couldn't logins my account for sometimes, I wasn't happy when the incident occur. Please I asked this few questions because I want to know what I don't know, and if my question is not ideal please don't crucify me.

Maybe what you say that sometimes the host server of bitcointalk is like maintenance, is that what you mean? Actually that seems normal to me, one day Bitcointalk was like that because I thought it was under maintenance and there was nothing to worry about.

        It took a while before that happened again, but only for one day. Then it is unlikely that the government will interfere with this forum, the government of each country will not waste it. After all, this forum is really only for those who are devoted and want to delve deeper into bitcoin and cryptocurrency. It seems to people that the bible is the best book in the whole world, then here for us this bitcointalk is like the bible of bitcoin and crypto fanatics.

[Kelward]

Signature campaigns, even if they were advertising something illegal, are so small in comparison to other crypto crimes that governments have prosecuted that I seriously doubt they're of any concern to government agencies.  But of course in all honesty I don't have a clue what's going to happen in the future or what agency in which government has eyes on, because there are a lot of them and they don't usually broadcast what they're investigating to the world.

So even with all the scrutiny crypto has been under, campaigns probably aren't even a small blip on the radar of anyone in power, and it's not likely worth the resources to go after either campaign participants or project/exchange/whatever owners for running campaigns.

Your analysis are comforting, in the sense that government will likely not invest their resources to go after campaign participants. Bitcointalk being an unanimous forum where different ideologists and personalities meet and interact about bitcoin and other related financial discussions, makes it more difficult for any government to interfere.

[CryptSafe]

Op your concerns and fears should not be a thing of worry to you. You see, this platform is an open space for all to and every one is entitled to his or her own opinion. Do not forget that this platform is an anonymous platform but up right and strict with good reputation and if there be any case of investigation, the company or organizations are the known entities to be held responsible as a result of their act because they already have an identity well known with government. We  wearing their signature has nothing to bother us because it is assume they must have fulfilled all the necessary requirements by the government and the forum to advertise their their products so if anything happens, hey would be held responsible because they re the once known by the government and not the  campaign promoters.

Just as it is with the chipmixer, the government went after the organization and not the promoters because the entity which is the organization are the ones responsible for that act as the promoters are not known.

[Eh Moo Nah]

There are lot of Defense statement here - What if Bitcointalk will be blocked by the FBI Because of those Crimes from Signature Campaign, or What if no one is Reporting Directly to the FBI because they Don't want to get Traced or something so they just Left the Issue goes on.?

I think the Merit System is the best Idea that the Owner of Bitcointalk Created to Lessen the Scammers who joins the campaign.

when it Comes to a syndicate something or any Related Crime Issue. FBI don't just go for Big Fish Directly they hunt small Fish First. If you get what I mean. 

[smyslov]

There are lot of Defense statement here - What if Bitcointalk will be blocked by the FBI Because of those Crimes from Signature Campaign, or What if no one is Reporting Directly to the FBI because they Don't want to get Traced or something so they just Left the Issue goes on.?

They will have to deal with section 260 first and Bitcointalk has already been made aware of their compliant to authorities being under U.S. jurisdiction, they will have to send a letter of notification first and Bitcointalk will respond appropriately, you don't block right away unless there is a pending case, there should be democracy in how they implement rules.

I think the Merit System is the best Idea that the Owner of Bitcointalk Created to Lessen the Scammers who joins the campaign.

We already have that in place but there are still scammers roaming around because scams are not moderated here

when it Comes to a syndicate something or any Related Crime Issue. FBI doesn't just go for Big Fish Directly they hunt small Fish First. If you get what I mean.  

Chipmixer and FTX are big fishes but they caught it, there should be court orders before they take action.

[CryptopreneurBrainboss]

I notice a signature campaign that all the participants is on red tag and the name is 1xbit, won't this signature campaign bring a negative name for bitcointalk because of their several accusations which has not be clarify?  Can't government investigate forum because of their act??

You don't have to be worry, 1xbit accusations and crimes can't bring any negative impacts to the forum, already they're not welcomed here as their campaign are always been blacklisted and promoters tagged whenever they launched their campaign on the forum. Those tags are a sign that the community doesn't welcome their advertisment here but since this is a public forum and signature or bounties aren't been regulated here, there's nothing the forum can do to stop them from advertising unless they break the forum rules.

If 1xbit is found guilty of encouraging their participants to be spamming the forum through their high weekly quota then they can be blocked from advertising on the forum as similar event has happened in the past with an exchange called yobit was found guilty of their signature participants spamming and they got their ads blocked from showing on the forum. There are far more worse projects that have advertised on the forum and turn out to be a scam yet it didn't affect the forum and that's because the forum has no direct involvement with those project.

[drwhobox]

I have taught of this seriously and I began to have a biased concern to bitcointalk if any signatures campaigns in bitcointalk can affects the existence of bitcointalk if they commit a crime that leads to government investigations. Secondly do we believe that bitcointalk can  be obstructed by government if their is a noticeable crime by the management? From my understanding it seems to me that bitcoin existence is different from the bitcointalk forum and without the existence of bitcointalk forum bitcoin will continue existing, what's your take on this.

In bitcointalk illegal advertising and promotion is prohibited so there is no way that government or any organization can investigate here. Also, most of the members maintain privacy because bitcoin is not legalized in so many countries and if bitcoin is not banned in some countries but also there are restrictions for using or holding bitcoin. So it is better to not disclose your privacy on this forum.

This idea came to me through what happened to the site of bitcointalk few days ago which I couldn't logins my account for sometimes, I wasn't happy when the incident occur. Please I asked this few questions because I want to know what I don't know, and if my question is not ideal please don't crucify me.

It was only for a time, I was also trying to log into my account that time. Maybe it was for the server and there is nothing to worry about when you face this, just try again after an hour or so.

[SatoPrincess]

I have no fear for anything, I asked a question because of my worries of government seizing a website with some reasons and I have none ideas of FBI investigating the forum, I just asked my question on a neutral ground because of what I thought of crime and government intervention, I have be cleared of signaturesm campaign not to contribute an act that will leads of seizing this website, since forum no crime of signatures campaign can cause problem to bitcointalk I have no worries, because I notice a signature campaign that all the participants is on red tag and the name is 1xbit, won't this signature campaign bring a negative name for bitcointalk because of their several accusations which has not be clarify?  Can't government investigate forum because of their act??

Government authorities can investigate the forum if the owner or a member is directly linked to a crime and there is evidence of that crime on bitcointalk, a post from an online forum can be used as evidence in court as seen in the Silk Road case , however I don’t think the negative actions of companies that have an ANN thread or signature campaign on the forum will cause seizure. It cannot even dent the name of the forum because Bitcointalk members are quick to address any suspicious activity from companies promoting their services here.

I think the Merit System is the best Idea that the Owner of Bitcointalk Created to Lessen the Scammers who joins the campaign.

The merit system was not created to reduce scammers, it was designed to reduce spam. I’m surprised you do not know scam is not moderated on the forum.

[Popkon6]

I would like to say that BitcoinTalk forum is just a discussion place where all kinds of discussions about Bitcoin happen. Bitcoin is just a powerful network and is ruling the entire world. The unique platform has black shading on it. If you come to the discussion of signature then it is only a responsibility because there are many rules to follow when you participate in a campaign. The Forum cannot be held responsible for actions taken by members of the campaign. Forum members are prohibited from illegal activity.

[Learn Bitcoin]

Well, the platform itself is not promoting anything. This is a public forum for everyone to discuss various things. People come from all over the world to talk about their interests. Moreover, Companies want to show their existence in the forum and get some traffic. There was a time when companies could buy Ad space on this forum. Forum ad space always had a warning when it was rented to companies.

Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.

This warning still exists even though the forum no longer sells its ad space. This is a global website. A Global website cannot maintain the rules of every country. I don't think the government has anything to do with the forum. Signature Campaigns promote their business here. People are just selling their signature space. That's it. A lot of media advertising illegal things. The forum is doing nothing compared to them. Even I believe the forum has nothing to do with the Signature campaigns or a 3rd party company.