After Chipmixer, Is Sinbad.io Next To Be Shutdown?

[JollyGood]

I can't really add much to the discussion and my only disclosure is that I once applied but didn't get a look in and so never reapplied for the chipmixer signature campaign (or any other mixers for that matter) after that.

Not long after my application was turned down, the fee being paid to signature participants collapsed but was still very lucrative nevertheless.

Chipmixer was very lucrative and that was why the campaign thread was flooded with pages upon pages of applicants as soon as there were slots available. As mentioned earlier, I applied (around 3 times) and was overlooked therefore stopped applying.

I agree with DaveF's sentiment that users seeking mixed coins will probably turn to depositing crypto to exchange A, split the coins into many chunks e.g. three, four or five) or many more) swap them for other crypto and or tokens then send those tokens to other exchanges B, C and D or even uniswap/pancake swap style instant exchanges to either swap back to what ever crypto they were and then sent on to the final destination or yet another exchange, rinse and repeate.

Can you imagine how difficult carrying out this process manually would be and how simple it would be if it were possible to automate it?

I wouldn't be surprised at all if perhaps a couple of the people taking out short term loans of a thousand dollars at a time on a very regular basis are repaying with laundered money either from Ponzi/hyip style scams, or, money filtered through the above method.

If there was evidence of this happening it would be

Has anyone else noticed after the initial toxic shock of the chipmixer demise that certain high and not so high profile UID's have started tailing off the amount of their posting...?

There was also the matter of alleged alt-accounts participating in the Chipmixer campaign. I have to agree with you, some members that were both advocates of Chipmixer and also posting regularly to meet the income threshold have gone quiet but if they no longer need to meet those requirements to earn a signature campaign participation income and can earn a weekly amount by posting less then they will as with most members that would probably be the driving factor of their presence here.

Then there is also the rumour that @theymos has sent out an edit that no admin/staff moderators are allowed to join mixing signature campaigns.

There was a link posted some time back where a forum staff member stated words to that effect. I need to try to find it as it confirmed what you cited as a rumour to be true.

[Lucius]

Then there is also the rumour that @theymos has sent out an edit that no admin/staff moderators are allowed to join mixing signature campaigns.

There was a link posted some time back where a forum staff member stated words to that effect. I need to try to find it as it confirmed what you cited as a rumour to be true.

This is not a rumor, but a fact confirmed by one of the staff members. We have already discussed this so many times that any further discussion is completely pointless, just as this discussion is pointless considering that logic leads us to a single conclusion, which is that all mixers are targets of those who want to stop them. Which one will be next is just a mere guess and nothing more.

[JollyGood]

This Wired.com interview and article regarding Sinbad.io was interesting on several levels including the fact the owner/operator of Sinbad mixer categorically refused to answer the question when asked if Sinbad.io was a relaunch post-branding of the now defunct Blender.io

"Elliptic" is a crypto tracing company that provided evidence to backup a link between Blender and Sinbad and since Blender was already on the radar of the US law officials because they faced allegations of money laundering huge amount, therefore the thread was related to Sinbad. Had allegations in the Wired.com article had been made against Coinomize, Wasabi, YoMix, Whirlwind or others I would have created the same thread but altered the name from Sinbad to the other.

It is as simple as this: Blender was shut down because of money laundering allegations and the owner/operator is wanted by US investigators to face criminal charge. Strong evidence has been put forward by a crypto tracing company that Blender.io was relaunched as Sinbad.io therefore in my opinion the chances are the next mixer to be shutdown will be Sinbad as it is already linked to criminal activity conducted during the previous carnation which was Blender.io

I was hoping for a wider intellectual debate rather than those that have posted with ulterior motives therefore I am locking this thread as some here have missed the point entirely and tried to take the thread deliberately to a different direction when any member including you and I should not be stifled in our comments just because of wearing one particular set of signatures or avatars. If that were the case, all those wearing gambling/gaming or crypto exchange signatures and so on should not be allowed to post comments related to competitors as each and every time a conflict of interest will be falsely cited and that mindset is unacceptable in what should be thriving free speech forum.

[JollyGood]

Well, I did create this thread to ask a valid question about whether Sinbad would be next to be shut down by multiple law enforcement agencies because if it could happen to Chipmixer, it could happen to any mixer.

It has taken around six months from when I created this thread to Sinbad being seized but I do not feel vindicated even though I was right. A crystal ball was not required to see this was eventually going to happen because the law enforcement agencies already had their eyes on the Sinbad mixer.

Let us not forget Sinbad was already connected to the Blender mixer money laundering because it received at least $22 million from Blender for the owner/operator Mehdi to launch Sinbad and that why it was always going to fail.

There were also claims made Sinbad was used to launder some of the $35 million stolen from the Atomic Wallet hack. Coindesk have the update on their website.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Let us not forget Sinbad was already connected to the Blender mixer money laundering because it received at least $22 million from Blender for the owner/operator Mehdi to launch Sinbad and that why it was always going to fail.

There were also claims made Sinbad was used to launder some of the $35 million stolen from the Atomic Wallet hack.

Interesting, I hadn't heard anything about that prior to the seizing of their site--and that tells me I ought to bookmark at least one crypto news website. 

Why in the world would any mixer that wants to remain in business for the long term accept funds that are so tainted that, as you said, in doing so they would seal their own fate?  I assume mixers have a choice in the matter, no?

Going forward I'm guessing the US and other governments are going to scrutinize all the mixers harder than they ever have, and I'm wondering if any of those governments are just going to take the quick route and criminalize them.  I always hear that bitcoin can't be stopped by any government, but if you make it illegal to use just watch its adoption drop off a cliff.  Same thing with mixers I'd imagine.

[Mate2237]

Who knows what the government is going to go after and with what amount of resources?  It seems as though all things crypto are under the microscope at the moment but that could change.  I do hope there are some powerful bitcoiners with political influence lobbying for us, because the little guys like myself can't really do much of anything to sway those politicians looking to criminalize mixers and whatever else.

Though this is my personal observation, the government is doing all these to destroy Bitcoin since they could not destroy it directly so they have to enter it from the window to destroy everything, Andy they are attacking any company that connected to Bitcoin activities therefore those who are using those services should be careful with the kind activities you share. But question the op asked it looks like futuristic. CM is down z Sinbad is down now which one is the next one to shutdown? It is a very simple question, and it needs a simple answer.

Any mixer that deviate from the mixing rules to do it own things and likeness will be shutdown. Because as a mixer you have to obey the rules set out for you to operate.

[JollyGood]

Interesting, I hadn't heard anything about that prior to the seizing of their site--and that tells me I ought to bookmark at least one crypto news website. 

Why in the world would any mixer that wants to remain in business for the long term accept funds that are so tainted that, as you said, in doing so they would seal their own fate?  I assume mixers have a choice in the matter, no?

Though the answer remains unknown, I think the founder/creator/owner/operator of both Blender and Sinbad (known as Mehdi) probably became too confident and as a result of that he probably thought he had mixed/jumbled the $22 million he used to create Sinbad to the point it would not be traced back to Blender. He was wrong because a blockchain Elliptic did link them.

I think there is a clear difference when a mixer is being used to mix for the average person conducting non-criminal acts for the sake of increasing privacy and an enterprise that has been created with laundered money to offer a mixing service

Going forward I'm guessing the US and other governments are going to scrutinize all the mixers harder than they ever have, and I'm wondering if any of those governments are just going to take the quick route and criminalize them.  I always hear that bitcoin can't be stopped by any government, but if you make it illegal to use just watch its adoption drop off a cliff.  Same thing with mixers I'd imagine.

I have no doubt they will come down on mixers very hard but cannot speculate as to when the clampdown will start (unless it already has). The accusations against Chipmixer and Sinbad are/were of colossal money laundering therefore they law enforcement agencies closed them down but other mixers did not receive as much attention. That will no doubt change in the future as more money launderers search for alternatives to mix their funds.

[OgNasty]

Mixers will basically always fall victim to their own success. As soon as someone pulls off a hack and utilizes the service, it will be seized. This has been shown to be true time and time again now. I think in the future people will look back at the operators of these mixing services and think they were quite brazen to be operating so out in the open and even paying to advertise.  

Looks like their signature campaign manager has locked their thread and is saying they aren’t going to release any funds from escrow… Bold strategy. Let’s see how it pays off for them.

[nutildah]

Any mixer that deviate from the mixing rules to do it own things and likeness will be shutdown. Because as a mixer you have to obey the rules set out for you to operate.

Your post doesn't make a lot of sense. What do you mean by "mixing rules"? Are you talking about requirements set by federal governments? If so, which ones? For a mixer to be able to service customers based in the U.S., it requires a money transmitter license, which means the mixer must not only register with the government but KYC for all customers (which defeats the purpose of the mixer). Other countries may have similar laws, some more lax laws, and some may not have any laws addressing the issue at all.

Arguably no mixer operates according to all the laws... it would more or less be impossible for them to do so.

Looks like their signature campaign manager has locked their thread and is saying they aren’t going to release any funds from escrow… Bold strategy. Let’s see how it pays off for them.

Well that's not exactly true. He said he's "considering not to touch any funds that is in the escrow address" until he receives direction from a lawyer. These are interesting times.

[Onyeeze]

Op you forsee this that happened to sinbad.io for over six months and when you created this thread people didn't understand your point and saw it as if you are criticising chipmixer and next will be sinbad.io, but it's clear that what makes all this mixers to be seized by law enforcement agencies is because they do go against the rules and regulations of mixers, if assumed mixers can concentrate on their business and stand to do a legit business with their clients I think that this that happened chipmixer and sinbad wouldn't happen, the accusation a law enforcement agencies used for seizing chipmixer is same thing for this sinbad, I read them and their is no difference between them. All this mixers supposed to have abstain themselves from money laundering business, money laundering is one of the things that is making government to continue to question a mixer and seized them too

[Mate2237]

What do you mean by "mixing rules"? Are you talking about requirements set by federal governments? If so, which ones? For a mixer to be able to service customers based in the U.S., it requires a money transmitter license, which means the mixer must not only register with the government but KYC for all customers (which defeats the purpose of the mixer). Other countries may have similar laws, some more lax laws, and some may not have any laws addressing the issue at all.

There is no financial institution that doesn't abide with set of law guiding the activities of the institution and before tumbler or a mixer will operate in the cryptocurrency ecosystem, it must be issued with a license and the license would be giving to it when they have accepted to obey the rules and meet up the requirements to operate. This is one of the law a mixer must follow Mixing large amounts of money may be illegal, therefore a good mixing company should operate within the financial law of not mixing large amount of funds because criminals will use it to launder money.

[nutildah]

There is no financial institution that doesn't abide with set of law guiding the activities of the institution and before tumbler or a mixer will operate in the cryptocurrency ecosystem, it must be issued with a license and the license would be giving to it when they have accepted to obey the rules and meet up the requirements to operate.

LOL. Not a single mixer operates with a license... I'm not sure a single one has, ever. Again, operating under the conditions of which the license is provided largely defeats the purpose of a customer using the mixer in the first place. I know you don't understand what I'm talking about. That's OK. I think the best solution is for me to put you on ignore.

[LoyceV]

Coindesk have the update on their website.

I'm surprised they've "banned" only 2 Bitcoin addresses: one was used for signature payments on the forum, the other holds just $67 worth of Bitcoin and never sent anything.

Why in the world would any mixer that wants to remain in business for the long term accept funds that are so tainted

What if it's the other way around, and that's the reason the mixer was created in the first place?

I think there is a clear difference when a mixer is being used to mix for the average person conducting non-criminal acts for the sake of increasing privacy and an enterprise that has been created with laundered money to offer a mixing service

Even worse than that: the latter needs the former.

Though this is my personal observation, the government is doing all these to destroy Bitcoin since they could not destroy it directly so they have to enter it from the window to destroy everything, Andy they are attacking any company that connected to Bitcoin activities

It's the opposite: what I read about Bitcoin in this case is actually quote encouraging:

A cryptocurrency mixing service is not necessarily illegal.

While we encourage responsible innovation in the digital asset ecosystem, we will not hesitate to take action against illicit actors.
~
The ultimate goal of sanctions is not to punish but to bring about a positive change in behavior.

[hg_away]

I'm surprised they've "banned" only 2 Bitcoin addresses: one was used for signature payments on the forum, the other holds just $67 worth of Bitcoin and never sent anything.

Do you know the date these two addresses were added? Because the escrow address received 0.501BTC one day after the report date and the report warn all future transactions associated with that mixer.

In the case of Sinbad, FOID team did not have access to backend wallet data, so they were not able to seize coins, and it appears that this service is managed by a group and not a single individual, as in the case of Chipmixer.

Also, all BTC moved from the chipmixer escrow address about a month ago, are there any restrictions placed on that address?

[Turbartuluk]

Do you know the date these two addresses were added?

Vielleicht werden die ja von FBI usw ja auch schon ins Visier genommen.  

Ich könnte mir vorstellen, dass die Sinbad Kampagne da vielleicht schon noch ein Nachspiel haben wird, zumindest hat mich Binance heute folgendes gefragt:



Dem aufmerksamen Leser dürfte die Adresse bekannt vorkommen, ist nämlich die Escrow Adresse der Sinbad Kampagne.

On Wednesday 18.15 UTC i received an email from binance to explain some transactions, which turns out were the payments from Sinbad Campaign / from sindbad escrow adress. Maybe it is interesting to add that i left campaign over 3 months ago.
Estimating that everything is automated i would guess that blacklisting must have been on wednesday.

I already removed all funds from Binance so nothing can be frozen. I also received some PMs on that topic too, but i am unsure how to go on or which advice i should give.
Therefore i want to ask the much more experienced users here for some advice on how to handle that. Maybe there are some "best practices" which i don't know yet.

Any help will be gratefully accepted.

  

[Rikafip]

I already removed all funds from Binance so nothing can be frozen.

Its good to hear that you managed to withdraw your funds as I assumed that they blocked your account while waiting for an explanation. Out of curiosity and to clear that out, did you use Binance address for signature campaign payments, or you sent the sig campaign monmey from your own wallet to Binance?

Regarding what to do, its a touchy matter and I personally don't feel comfortable sharing advice as honestly I am not sure what would I do in your situation, but I do know that Binance can be very persistent if they think you are bullshitting them without providing solid evidence for your story so if you go that route, be careful.

[Mate2237]

snip

This is the first time I am seen such scenario and I don't think anyone has experienced in this your case before. And all what I will say is that if you want to use the Binance App in the future then you have to tell them that you received the funds from the address based on a service you render and make sure provide the Signature Campaign link for them to make the verification and I know that apart this they will still ask more thing to verify the address.

And if you did not tell them after the 7 days time, they will block your Binance account and blacklist your account to Sinbad. Therefore, explain to them.

[LoyceV]

Therefore i want to ask the much more experienced users here for some advice on how to handle that. Maybe there are some "best practices" which i don't know yet.

Don't take this as legal advice, but if someone would address me as "Dear Binancian", I'd probably ignore them. What's the point of all that KYC if they can't address you by your name?
I wouldn't use Binance anyway, they freeze your funds when they make a mistake.

[Turbartuluk]

Its good to hear that you managed to withdraw your funds as I assumed that they blocked your account while waiting for an explanation. Out of curiosity and to clear that out, did you use Binance address for signature campaign payments, or you sent the sig campaign monmey from your own wallet to Binance?

Sinbad was my first campain ever (i am still kind of newbie) and i used Binance adress for payouts. Therefore my personal account is now directly linked to sinbad escrow adress. I got timeline of 7 days to explain transactions, otherwise account will be limited. At least within this timeline withdrawals work fine.

Therefore i want to ask the much more experienced users here for some advice on how to handle that. Maybe there are some "best practices" which i don't know yet.

Don't take this as legal advice, but if someone would address me as "Dear Binancian", I'd probably ignore them. What's the point of all that KYC if they can't address you by your name?
I wouldn't use Binance anyway, they freeze your funds when they make a mistake.

Thank you for providing the link also leading me to Binance having legal issues in an lot of countries: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5353363.msg57648203#msg57648203
Even if i originally wanted to keep binance for trading purposes i realizedm that i will not lose anything if that is not possible. It makes decisions much easier.

[Shenanigan]

What will happen to those who weared the signature of Sinbad? Is it true that Sinbad was involved in connection with the DPRK?