P2P Scams : Where does the government stand

[joniboini]

In Russia, for example, such exchanges will quickly lead to the blocking of a bank account. On average, 7-8 thousand dollars per month of operations on a bank card and the account is blocked.

8k USD per month transaction limit is kinda low, isn't it? If it is because crypto is being used, I wonder why they don't block people from the beginning and wait until they reach a certain threshold. Is there a limit or something on the trading activity for each month?

I would try to use the European and American services that are on the website https://www.bestchange.com/
for purchase only. If you are blocked there, then there will be no problems in your own country. You can buy cryptocurrencies in small amounts of 300-500 dollars.

I'm not sure I get it, how can you be sure that a service is available in my country if it was blocked in Europe/US? For example, Pakistan just ban crypto based on the news shared a few days ago iirc because they don't want to get blacklisted internationally. At the end of the day, I do believe exchange services will allow users from countries that don't explicitly ban crypto trading activities.

[1714847201]

1714847201

[avikz]

It really depends on the nature of the scam. In P2P trading, fiat is usually involved. So regardless of whether crypto is involved or not, it can be taken up by the court of law. Even in my country, crypto is not recognised in any way legally. Still we often face bank freeze issues and it can be taken up with legal enforcement team.

Can op please be specific what kind of scam you are referring to?

[zasad@]

In Russia, for example, such exchanges will quickly lead to the blocking of a bank account. On average, 7-8 thousand dollars per month of operations on a bank card and the account is blocked.

8k USD per month transaction limit is kinda low, isn't it? If it is because crypto is being used, I wonder why they don't block people from the beginning and wait until they reach a certain threshold. Is there a limit or something on the trading activity for each month?

I would try to use the European and American services that are on the website https://www.bestchange.com/
for purchase only. If you are blocked there, then there will be no problems in your own country. You can buy cryptocurrencies in small amounts of 300-500 dollars.

I'm not sure I get it, how can you be sure that a service is available in my country if it was blocked in Europe/US? For example, Pakistan just ban crypto based on the news shared a few days ago iirc because they don't want to get blacklisted internationally. At the end of the day, I do believe exchange services will allow users from countries that don't explicitly ban crypto trading activities.

In Russia, there is a law that requires a bank to check all payments that are more than 600,000 rubles ($7,320) for illegal activity and report them to Rosfinmonitoring.
But the bank can also block payments of smaller amounts if it sees this as illegal activity (and there are no clear criteria, even 15 receipts of money a day for $ 30 may be cause for questions). According to the agreement with the bank, it is forbidden to engage in commercial activities.
If, for example, you withdraw cash from an ATM after the transfer to you, then you will be blocked earlier. If you only receive money and spend it in stores, then your bank account will live longer, but P2P trading will still lead to account blocking. I asked arbitrageur about this issue and they said that on average 1 bank account works for a month or less before blocking.

___
If cryptocurrency is banned in your country, you can ask friends from other countries to set up an account with one of the European payment systems and buy cryptocurrencies through these systems.

[Fiatless]

Now my question is that in my country, crypto is not legalized, so in case if anyone is scammed through P2P, we can't take up this matter in the legal court because the country does not recognize the transactions of crypto in the first place.

Does this gives a free hand to scammers as they know that they cannot be punished by a court of law  

If crypto is banned in your country exchanges might be blocked from operating except if you use VPN or other anonymizing browsers. Engaging in such crypto transactions makes you a criminal because you are violating the law of the country thereby committing a crime. He that comes to equity must come with clean hands, so you cannot take legal action against a scammer because you are not also innocent. Since the transaction is illegal before the law, the court has no locus standi to entertain such a matter. It will definitely give scammers the freedom to scam as many people as possible because the transactions are illegal in your country.  The only option is to report to the exchange for investigation and further sanctions.

[Woodie]

The only way I can think of preventing this is or bring the numbers down is by drafting cyber laws that will deter would be offenders as local mediums will be used when it comes to transferring out fiat. Of course people on these  platforms use fake IDs and the alike, such users can be followed and if the proof is overwhelming their coins can be confiscated and not returned to them and this should definitely bring the numbers down.

But for now, best solution is running an awareness campaign and let p2p  users not trust users on the other side of the screen as these are strangers and trust should never come in the picture.

It really depends on the nature of the scam. In P2P trading, fiat is usually involved. So regardless of whether crypto is involved or not, it can be taken up by the court of law.

Agreed, unlike crypto... p2p has an aspect of real life transactions which makes it an interesting case for the police and later the courts, and if found on the wrong side of the law,anything from fraud chargers, to cyber crime to whatever they courts find fit to hit you with can be all piled up on the offenders, so act smart and let's do things cleanly.

[joniboini]

But for now, best solution is running an awareness campaign and let p2p  users not trust users on the other side of the screen as these are strangers and trust should never come in the picture.

There are definitely good tools that we can use to prevent scams from happening, such as multi-sig/escrow, trust profile, trade history, etc. I believe people can definitely use P2P without being scared that much as long as they get the gist of it. But yeah, a change of habit can be quite difficult for some people who usually rely on a third party to prevent scams from happening.

If cryptocurrency is banned in your country, you can ask friends from other countries to set up an account with one of the European payment systems and buy cryptocurrencies through these systems.

Oh, so that's what you mean. I guess people can do that as long as the requirement is not that difficult. I do have an overseas bank account opened through apps like Wise, but I believe they also need to follow regulations in my country to some extent.

[zasad@]

If cryptocurrency is banned in your country, you can ask friends from other countries to set up an account with one of the European payment systems and buy cryptocurrencies through these systems.

Oh, so that's what you mean. I guess people can do that as long as the requirement is not that difficult. I do have an overseas bank account opened through apps like Wise, but I believe they also need to follow regulations in my country to some extent.

If you follow all the idiotic rules, then you can remain an idiot. I do not oppose laws, but governments of countries do not have the right to ban cryptocurrencies.Companies also want to make money, so they can formally comply with certain rules.But you must understand the responsibility for this in your country.

[Findingnemo]

These days there are a lot of P2P scams on Binance and other platforms. The P2P platforms are not be blamed but the scammers are coming up with new ways to scam people who are new to the crypto world.

Recently Binance did a P2P scam awareness session with our local community which was very informative.

The recording can be watched here   https://www.binance.com/en/live/video?roomId=2138115

Now my question is that in my country, crypto is not legalized, so in case if anyone is scammed through P2P, we can't take up this matter in the legal court because the country does not recognize the transactions of crypto in the first place.

Does this gives a free hand to scammers as they know that they cannot be punished by a court of law  

Crypto isn't legalized is different from crypto is banned so in the case you're talking still you can take it to legal proceedings if you're scammed while doing cryptocurrency trading and the existing law related to scam through online will still applies.

But how the giant exchanges with intensive KYC procedure for verification still missing the scammers and the platform can give complete information about the scammer if you take it to legal and authority seeks for them.

[cryptoaddictchie]

Now my question is that in my country, crypto is not legalized, so in case if anyone is scammed through P2P, we can't take up this matter in the legal court because the country does not recognize the transactions of crypto in the first place.

Does this gives a free hand to scammers as they know that they cannot be punished by a court of law  

Pretty good topic. I think Government cant handle or help you with that especially if the user who scammed you is using a disposable wallet for transactions. Plus you cant track him that easily. Binance have fake users, they always reminding users to be vigilant cause some are probably trying to scam them. Anyone could distignuish an account that is legit and only choose those verified one. The trick is dont over to some high offer value that doesnt have much feedbacks. Potentially they are scammers.

[Bushdark]

It is very important for us to be very careful the way make run transactions in a country where cryptocurrency is illegal. One need to take extra ordinary consciousness to use many of these ex image for p2p trade and this is a way where we can find so many forms of scamming because the government would not take any responsibility if anyone ever report the case of being scam through P2P method.

This kind of scamming where the buy would send fake alert to the seller is very rampard and we all need to take consciousness when dealing with an unknown person online. I have seen many cases where the buyer was claiming that he had paid the fund and begging the seller to release the coin without seeing any fund. Theybhave so many methods they use and we need to be aware of those methods or else, we might fall for there scam.

[joniboini]

this is a way where we can find so many forms of scamming because the government would not take any responsibility if anyone ever report the case of being scam through P2P method.

I don't think responsibility is the right word. Even if crypto is legalized in your country and you can trade it openly, they still won't compensate you if you fail for a scam. I guess help is the word you're looking for, more or less. At the end of the day though, people should not overly depend on the government to do investigative works to put scammers in jail.

I have seen many cases where the buyer was claiming that he had paid the fund and begging the seller to release the coin without seeing any fund. Theybhave so many methods they use and we need to be aware of those methods or else, we might fall for there scam.

Any decent platform would always alert its users that they should never communicate outside of the platform and ask for proof from their trading partners. Even if you do a P2P trade directly, it is a silly mistake to make unless you're so new to P2P IMO. CMIIW.

[zasad@]

It is very important for us to be very careful the way make run transactions in a country where cryptocurrency is illegal. One need to take extra ordinary consciousness to use many of these ex image for p2p trade and this is a way where we can find so many forms of scamming because the government would not take any responsibility if anyone ever report the case of being scam through P2P method.

This kind of scamming where the buy would send fake alert to the seller is very rampard and we all need to take consciousness when dealing with an unknown person online. I have seen many cases where the buyer was claiming that he had paid the fund and begging the seller to release the coin without seeing any fund. Theybhave so many methods they use and we need to be aware of those methods or else, we might fall for there scam.

I can't believe that in a large city with a population of more than a million people you will not find a place where you can change cryptocurrency. And if this is a tourist city, then there are definitely no problems with this. There are a lot of scammers, and you do not need to work with the first ad that you find in instant messengers.

[Bushdark]

It is very important for us to be very careful the way make run transactions in a country where cryptocurrency is illegal. One need to take extra ordinary consciousness to use many of these ex image for p2p trade and this is a way where we can find so many forms of scamming because the government would not take any responsibility if anyone ever report the case of being scam through P2P method.

This kind of scamming where the buy would send fake alert to the seller is very rampard and we all need to take consciousness when dealing with an unknown person online. I have seen many cases where the buyer was claiming that he had paid the fund and begging the seller to release the coin without seeing any fund. Theybhave so many methods they use and we need to be aware of those methods or else, we might fall for there scam.

I can't believe that in a large city with a population of more than a million people you will not find a place where you can change cryptocurrency. And if this is a tourist city, then there are definitely no problems with this. There are a lot of scammers, and you do not need to work with the first ad that you find in instant messengers.

There are so many cryptocurrency plugs but one need to be careful how they transact business because they can easily end up in the wrong hands and get scammed. I am referring to place or region when cryptocurrency is never legally official yet and this can make investing in cryptocurrency projects to be very scary with extra ordinary consciousness.

8f we live in a region where cryptocurrency is not regulated, we might find it hard to run transaction even if we uses exchange. Since the government would never come in to help and prosecute the offender for his attempt to scam, this could make it difficult for the scammed victim to complain to the police so the culprit can to arrested and prosecuted by law. We all hope tha Bitcoin would be universally accepted which will reduce scam.

[zasad@]

It is very important for us to be very careful the way make run transactions in a country where cryptocurrency is illegal. One need to take extra ordinary consciousness to use many of these ex image for p2p trade and this is a way where we can find so many forms of scamming because the government would not take any responsibility if anyone ever report the case of being scam through P2P method.

This kind of scamming where the buy would send fake alert to the seller is very rampard and we all need to take consciousness when dealing with an unknown person online. I have seen many cases where the buyer was claiming that he had paid the fund and begging the seller to release the coin without seeing any fund. Theybhave so many methods they use and we need to be aware of those methods or else, we might fall for there scam.

I can't believe that in a large city with a population of more than a million people you will not find a place where you can change cryptocurrency. And if this is a tourist city, then there are definitely no problems with this. There are a lot of scammers, and you do not need to work with the first ad that you find in instant messengers.

There are so many cryptocurrency plugs but one need to be careful how they transact business because they can easily end up in the wrong hands and get scammed. I am referring to place or region when cryptocurrency is never legally official yet and this can make investing in cryptocurrency projects to be very scary with extra ordinary consciousness.

8f we live in a region where cryptocurrency is not regulated, we might find it hard to run transaction even if we uses exchange. Since the government would never come in to help and prosecute the offender for his attempt to scam, this could make it difficult for the scammed victim to complain to the police so the culprit can to arrested and prosecuted by law. We all hope tha Bitcoin would be universally accepted which will reduce scam.

There are countries where people trust the police, and the police protect the interests of the people.
A good example, although controversial:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5457086.0
I live in a country where people don't trust the police and the police won't find scammers who will steal your cryptocurrency. In most cases, this cannot be done even in many countries.

You refer to the law, but this law protects the interests of large companies in all countries. Not a single exchange has yet reimbursed a trader due to illegal blocking, because this cannot be proven and the trader himself agrees to this in the terms of use.

[NotATether]

Does this gives a free hand to scammers as they know that they cannot be punished by a court of law  

Unfortunately, yes. There are no checks and balances in place anywhere, so while legitimate users' accounts are being shut down by exchanges who proceed to keep the money, there are also individual scammers (the high-tech thieves) who steal from people for a living, and nobody from the crypto platforms to the social media apps to the countries are doing anything to quash it.

[zasad@]

Does this gives a free hand to scammers as they know that they cannot be punished by a court of law  

Unfortunately, yes. There are no checks and balances in place anywhere, so while legitimate users' accounts are being shut down by exchanges who proceed to keep the money, there are also individual scammers (the high-tech thieves) who steal from people for a living, and nobody from the crypto platforms to the social media apps to the countries are doing anything to quash it.

I monitor the methods of fraud in my country. There are a lot of phone scams in which the scammer asks the victim to transfer money to another account. It can be a transfer of money to a drop account or a purchase of a cryptocurrency, but it is impossible to fight against this, because the money will be quickly cashed out. All banks have instructions on how not to become a victim of a scammer, but fools still believe phone scammers.

[UmerIdrees]

Does this gives a free hand to scammers as they know that they cannot be punished by a court of law  

Unfortunately, yes. There are no checks and balances in place anywhere, so while legitimate users' accounts are being shut down by exchanges who proceed to keep the money, there are also individual scammers (the high-tech thieves) who steal from people for a living, and nobody from the crypto platforms to the social media apps to the countries are doing anything to quash it.

I monitor the methods of fraud in my country. There are a lot of phone scams in which the scammer asks the victim to transfer money to another account. It can be a transfer of money to a drop account or a purchase of a cryptocurrency, but it is impossible to fight against this, because the money will be quickly cashed out. All banks have instructions on how not to become a victim of a scammer, but fools still believe phone scammers.

For this purpose, Binance insists that all P2P communication should happen on the Binance chat window and not take that conversation out of the Binance to any third party platform. If the buyer or the seller asks to have a phone call where he tells another account[ s] to transfer the money, Binance can have no control or proof on this and in case of dispute/scam, Binance may not be able to help the victim.

Yes, the government won't be able to help either because of the no legalization of cryptocurrencies, but we have to take as many precautions ourselves to prevent any sort of fraud or scam with us through P2P platforms.

[GH2022]

These days there are a lot of P2P scams on Binance and other platforms. The P2P platforms are not be blamed but the scammers are coming up with new ways to scam people who are new to the crypto world.

Recently Binance did a P2P scam awareness session with our local community which was very informative.

The recording can be watched here   https://www.binance.com/en/live/video?roomId=2138115

Now my question is that in my country, crypto is not legalized, so in case if anyone is scammed through P2P, we can't take up this matter in the legal court because the country does not recognize the transactions of crypto in the first place.

Does this gives a free hand to scammers as they know that they cannot be punished by a court of law  

It does provide something of a free hand, but if the scammed person has the scammers PayPal etc. then I would gather something could be done in order to bring him/her to justice.

Even in countries where Cryptocurrencies are deemed as 'okay' the Police won't get involved in these matters as they are either not knowledgeable enough about Cryptocurrency frauds or believe that anybody using it is automatic bad person.

As a matter of course I avoid Paxful and Symlix like the plague as they are scammer central:

'You pay me first before I release Bitcoins'
'I am in charge of this trade, you do as I say'
'I want money/Bitcoins first!'
'Let's trade offline...'

When a friend of mine was attacked by somebody who thought he was carrying actual physical Bitcoins on him to a Local Bitcoin meet up, it brought home to me that some people will sadly do anything to get Bitcoin. 

[dothebeats]

This is where you need to be extra cautious. There are tons of scam even in centralized platforms that offer P2P buy/sell options. In Binance, the buyer of the coin is usually the one who is more prone to scamming - you can pay the seller and send a payment request and they can just ignore that, and your money is gone just like that. They use fake IDs to get verified in the platform that's why they are brave to do this without hesitation whatsoever.

In these situations, it's best to be vigilant when releasing the coins/funds/whatever. If the other party shows red flags in a transaction, it's best to take your time until they fulfilled their end of the deal before you release the money. Confirm that you have received whatever it is that you need receiving, before marking any transaction as complete. Or better yet, just deal with verified accounts with high reviews to avoid getting scammed. The rates may not be as great, but there is some guarantee to an extent that you'll receive your money/crypto.

[Fiatless]

For this purpose, Binance insists that all P2P communication should happen on the Binance chat window and not take that conversation out of the Binance to any third party platform. If the buyer or the seller asks to have a phone call where he tells another account[ s] to transfer the money, Binance can have no control or proof on this and in case of dispute/scam, Binance may not be able to help the victim.

The Binance chat window can be easily monitored by the exchange. And in terms of fraud or dispute, there will be shreds of evidence to back up claims. There are many advertisements on social media on crypto exchange and using them is risky. It is better to use well-established firms because they possess the necessary operational mechanism to tackle fraud to a large extent.

Yes, the government won't be able to help either because of the no legalization of cryptocurrencies, but we have to take as many precautions ourselves to prevent any sort of fraud or scam with us through P2P platforms.

Engaging in crypto transactions in a country where the currency is banned is risky. Reporting to law enforcement agencies is like reporting to the government that you committed a crime. It will be better to take necessary safety measures.