Bitcoin is dead, long live ... what?

[vekkuyam40]

Bitcoin is dying, it is not surviving the NFT attack. The mempool is permanently clogged with ordnials, and the developers don't seem to have any resistance plans. Even here, at these forums, there a lot of trolls writing dozens of layers of abstract nonsense in support of ordinals and totally ignoring the fact that normal payments with bitcoin have become impossible, as simple as that.

It's been a few months now, and there are no tiniest signs of recovery. That was it. I'm going to exchange my bitcoins to another cryptocurrency now. Since I am switching currencies anyway, I want to choose a good one, preferably eliminating the other problems bitcoin has (apart from ordinals), and not gaining more problems. I think I'm not the only one here who thinks about the same ideas, so I am creating this thread.

Specifically, for me at least, "a good currency" means the following:

1. Decentralization, at least the same level as bitcoin has.
2. Open-source, preferably with a package available in one of the major linux distributions (this ensures at least some level of information safety).
3. Privacy must be better than bitcoin has. Mixers are a very weak point of bitcoin, making a lot of centralization necessary.
4. A strong anti-NFT position of developers. After switching currencies, I don't want to face the same problem I escaped from.

My own research:

I found 3 popular currencies that (apparently?) meet these criteria, more or less: dash, monero, and zcash. As for open-source, they all have sources available for download, but the only one I found in a major official repo was monero, in debian. On the other hand, monero still looks "beta" in the sense that the version number starts with 0, unlike with dash or zcash.

Speaking of privacy, I see some contradictory information. Sometimes I see claims that monero offers better privacy, sometimes I see claims that monero "mixes" your transaction only with transfers of the same or similar amounts, while zcash "mixes" your transaction with many more others. Does anyone here know better or more precise details?

Speaking of NFT, I could not find any specific information about dash or zcash. Monero seems to resist. It looks like they have limited "the size of tx_extra" (if I understand correctly, this is some kind of "comments" field, and this was what the NFT attackers used against bitcoin) to 1k (https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/8733), hoping that this will eliminate NFT.

Any other opinions, advantages, or disadvantages of these 3 currencies?

[Ojima-ojo]

Even with the congestion of the current and subsequent network in the Bitcoin blockchain, it is not enough for you to call Bitcoin dead and at some point, I don't see the network crisis as an attack from other developers on the Bitcoin network just to keep it from scaling, it's still very ok and welcomed to see such if that be, because of such attacks will help to build the network in a more formidable manner.


I am sure most bitcoin users are finding their way around the crisis and by so doing,  choosing the right time and fees for your transactions, so by so doing you can effortlessly avoid paying such exorbitant fees and waiting time.

[blockman]

Bitcoin is dying, it is not surviving the NFT attack. The mempool is permanently clogged with ordnials, and the developers don't seem to have any resistance plans.

Are you sure that it's not surviving? I think that you have to look again at mempool. Yeah, it's annoying that it has become quite expensive for the transaction fees thanks to ordinals but that doesn't mean it's not surviving. Because if you say so then there's no way that everyone will keep up with Bitcoin and will stay on this.

Even here, at these forums, there a lot of trolls writing dozens of layers of abstract nonsense in support of ordinals and totally ignoring the fact that normal payments with bitcoin have become impossible, as simple as that.

Nah, it's still possible. The fees have dropped too much and it's still affordable in centavos.

[wheelz1200]

What are you talking about bitcoin is dying lol.  Bitcoin runs the market.  Nothing goes anywhere until bitcoin does.  You think nfts are gonna push bitcoin off its petistal you haven't been around long enough.  Everyone has claimed bitcoin has been dying since 2010.  How's that prediction faired so far?

[timoshani]

Bitcoin is dying, it is not surviving the NFT attack. The mempool is permanently clogged with ordnials, and the developers don't seem to have any resistance plans.

Are you sure that it's not surviving? I think that you have to look again at mempool. Yeah, it's annoying that it has become quite expensive for the transaction fees thanks to ordinals but that doesn't mean it's not surviving. Because if you say so then there's no way that everyone will keep up with Bitcoin and will stay on this.

Even here, at these forums, there a lot of trolls writing dozens of layers of abstract nonsense in support of ordinals and totally ignoring the fact that normal payments with bitcoin have become impossible, as simple as that.

Nah, it's still possible. The fees have dropped too much and it's still affordable in centavos.

In terms of reliability, Bitcoin, despite the ancient script, is better than other blockchains. Recently, I don't remember the news that bitcoins could be stolen somewhere. Regarding the fees, it is more acceptable than the fee value that has been observed recently on the Ethereum network.

[_BlackStar]

Will I change your mindset about bitcoin after I read your entire post? No - you can choose your own path and we ^{[those who are optimistic about bitcoin]} will choose theirs. There is no compulsion to agree to bitcoin forever when you trust that some other altcoin can help you. Do as you please as long as it's good for you - bitcoin is not going to die just because of mempool congestion problem.

[Captain Corporate]

Can't believe there is still a situation like this, it just doesn't feel like something is right, why do people still think this? I mean bitcoin has been "dead" a million times it started and each time it went up without an issue and nothing happened. Why do people keep thinking that bitcoin will die, its not dying, it hasn't and it won't. Just accept the fact that it will be nothing more than just a hitch on the way and we will go over this and move on. I keep seeing "this one is different!!" anytime a new bad thing happens and for some reason it just keeps becoming more and more boring. Know that this is a temporary thing, and bitcoin will survive this, and stop doubting if bitcoin will survive or not, it always does.

[Stalker22]

Bitcoin is dying, it is not surviving the NFT attack. The mempool is permanently clogged with ordnials,
~

Oh, wow, I was so impressed by your incredibly insightful comment that I couldn't help but stop reading right there. Clearly, you are a true expert in the field. 

By the way, just in case you have some unconfirmed transactions stuck, according to mempool.space, the current recommended high priority transaction fee is around 38 sat/vB. Make a note of it.

[someone703]

Bitcoin is not dead. Bitcoin is just purging people who don't really believe in the awesomeness it brings to this market. You must know that something new always comes under pressure from its predecessors, and bitcoin is no exception. So despite facing many challenges, it still continuously recovers and grows stronger. This is something people have to realize: the power of bitcoin is really great, so there is no doubt about what it is doing. Bitcoin will never die; it will forever exist from now until the future.

[Jating]

Lol, bitcoin has survived may trials and tribulations in the past, we've seen this kind of spamming in 2017 and yet we reach all time high?

Good title and click bait for the OP, but it seems he didn't understand and just hyping the ordinals or those privacy coins.

But I do hope that you know that government is running after privacy based coins now and Binance has delist majority of them,

Binance, the world’s largest crypto exchange by trading volume, is planning to delist a number of privacy coins for users in Spain, France, Italy and Poland.

The coins that will be delisted are all privacy-focused coins that are designed to make it difficult for third-parties to trace transactions and get information about wallet balances.

The coins that will be delisted include Zcash (ZEC), Monero (XMR), Decred (DCR), Horizen (ZEN), Verge (XVG), Dash (DASH), Secret (SCRT), Firo (FRO), Navcoin (NAV), PIVX (PIVX), Mobilecoin (MOB) and BEAM (BEAM).

https://cryptonews.com/news/binance-targets-privacy-coins-for-delisting-four-european-countries-whats-going-on.htm

[ultrloa]

Even with the congestion of the current and subsequent network in the Bitcoin blockchain, it is not enough for you to call Bitcoin dead and at some point, I don't see the network crisis as an attack from other developers on the Bitcoin network just to keep it from scaling, it's still very ok and welcomed to see such if that be, because of such attacks will help to build the network in a more formidable manner.


I am sure most bitcoin users are finding their way around the crisis and by so doing,  choosing the right time and fees for your transactions, so by so doing you can effortlessly avoid paying such exorbitant fees and waiting time.

Only those people who don't know what is the current situation always call that bitcoin is dead since once there's an issues they easily get panic or been affected on some bad condition happened to it. They didn't see the whole picture and how still bitcoin perform despite those challenges. We always see that bitcoin recovers back after the storm so there's no need for us to get worried if network congestion occurs since this is not new to bitcoin.

Maybe for newbies they need to chill out and just wait for things to clear out since as we see bitcoin is pretty fine these days.

[terciduk123]

I was quite surprised to read the title of your thread: How can it be said to be dead while Bitcoin is still around today with the first largest market cap?" Then what about some of the privacy coins you offer? Currently, some countries prohibit trading privacy coins, in fact, this is a problem for this type of privacy coin.
Network problems like you mentioned back then happened to Ethereum when CryptoKitties first appeared, But see now? Everything has been resolved, Sometimes a problem that we think has no solution does not mean there really is no solution, because maybe we are not experts in that field or maybe many people are more experts than us.

[nakamura12]

Arr you sure that Bitcoin is dead? You can only say Bitcoin is dead when it didn't survive and not a single person is using Bitcoin. It is true that there are lots of transactions that you can see in the explorer or in mempool.space but it isn't enough to make Bitcoin dead. If you are not aware, Bitcoin existed for many years since 2009 and I don't think that Bitcoin will be dead. My guess on you said that Bitcoin is dead is because you're more on Altcoin which doesn't even come close to Bitcoin. Well, that's your choice and opinion.

[o48o]

Bitcoin is dying, it is not surviving the NFT attack. The mempool is permanently clogged with ordnials, and the developers don't seem to have any resistance plans. Even here, at these forums, there a lot of trolls writing dozens of layers of abstract nonsense in support of ordinals and totally ignoring the fact that normal payments with bitcoin have become impossible, as simple as that.

It's been a few months now, and there are no tiniest signs of recovery. That was it. I'm going to exchange my bitcoins to another cryptocurrency now. Since I am switching currencies anyway, I want to choose a good one, preferably eliminating the other problems bitcoin has (apart from ordinals), and not gaining more problems. I think I'm not the only one here who thinks about the same ideas, so I am creating this thread.

Bitcoin has overcome worse than this. This is going to be another nothing burger fud.

Specifically, for me at least, "a good currency" means the following:
-cut-
4. A strong anti-NFT position of developers. After switching currencies, I don't want to face the same problem I escaped from.
-cut-

So basically you want something where people will be restricted of doing anything things you don't like?

My own research:

I found 3 popular currencies that (apparently?) meet these criteria, more or less: dash, monero, and zcash.
-cut-
Any other opinions, advantages, or disadvantages of these 3 currencies?

You just picked coins that are going to get kicked from any known CEXes. Maybe you just want to play cryptopunk anarchist and do person to person trading, nothing wrong with that but just be aware that prices are going to go down after liquidity of cexes goes down. You might find buyers though, just like with nfts.

But if we really are looking for alternative to BTC, my money is in ETH.

[Husires]

If Bitcoin dies, then we will most likely find it difficult to buy these cryptocurrencies because it is difficult to find an exchange that lists them, and therefore their price will be lower, which means more centralization if the demand for the currency decreases. It is true that Bitcoin is not ideal, but the reasons you mentioned are more fears than real problems, and the most altcoins has lower fees or less congestion in the blocks because its blocks are large and most of those blocks are mined empty so you need several blocks before your transaction is considered secure while in Bitcoin, one confirmation is enough.

By taking some analysis, you will find that zcash is not a currency of privacy, and here you will find yourself between Dash, which offers acceptable privacy in exchange for ease of use, and Monero, which represents better privacy with difficulty in use.
where you will buy them and how you will sell them in the future with all the current legislation  Monero terminated in Italy, along with other privacy coins

[Renampun]

your base saying that Bitcoin is dead due to just Ordinal issues doesn't make any sense at all. bitcoin is not dead, now or in the future, want to know why? because there are still many who have pinned their hopes on bitcoin even when the bitcoin market dropped in 2018, there are still many who still hold bitcoin, and the proof is that it managed to reach its ATH in 2021.

so just because Ordinal causing problems to the bitcoin network doesn't necessarily make bitcoin an unreliable digital asset, it just proves that bitcoin still needs improvement, and as long as bitcoin core dev can improve bitcoin for the better, I think that there isn't yet an asset digital technology that can rival bitcoin in terms of economics and architecture.

[blockman]

Bitcoin is dying, it is not surviving the NFT attack. The mempool is permanently clogged with ordnials, and the developers don't seem to have any resistance plans.

Are you sure that it's not surviving? I think that you have to look again at mempool. Yeah, it's annoying that it has become quite expensive for the transaction fees thanks to ordinals but that doesn't mean it's not surviving. Because if you say so then there's no way that everyone will keep up with Bitcoin and will stay on this.

In terms of reliability, Bitcoin, despite the ancient script, is better than other blockchains. Recently, I don't remember the news that bitcoins could be stolen somewhere.

With phishing attacks, the way to steal it from other people is through that or taking it personally from a person you know physically. And that's why we get news like this (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bitcoin-millionaire-crypto-founder-found-025352097.html)

Regarding the fees, it is more acceptable than the fee value that has been observed recently on the Ethereum network.

Right, when the hype of NFTs and play to earn games, I even managed to pay more than $100 just for the fee and that sucks because I have no choice by that time as I can't move my funds if I wouldn't do the transaction.

[CapGelatik]

What are you talking about bitcoin is dying lol.  Bitcoin runs the market.  Nothing goes anywhere until bitcoin does.  You think nfts are gonna push bitcoin off its petistal you haven't been around long enough.  Everyone has claimed bitcoin has been dying since 2010.  How's that prediction faired so far?

All those who say Bitcoin is dead are people who don't understand how Bitcoin is alive until now,
you are right Bitcoin has been said to be dead since the price of Bitcoin was below $ 1000 haha LoL isn't it?
then look at the current price of 1 Bitcoin? yes, it touched $ 27k even in 2021 the Bitcoin price went crazy up to $ 64k and now it is indeed being corrected,
and expert predictions 2024-2025 will be a bullish year for Bitcoin.

[raidarksword]

The term "bitcoin is dead" had been used a lots for many years now yet bitcoin is still alive and kicking. So I don't think bitcoin will be dead in fact it was never dead, it's just market has its own cycle that's why people will keep using that abused terms up until this year. Congestions are normal hence many people were using it that's why network will have a delay some times if we are using it. Only haters will say bitcoin is dead while true supporters will praise bitcoin and glorify it because of what bitcoin brings to them.

[killerfrost]

Some minor issues surrounding the bitcoin story, I wonder if the OP has really observed what's happened to the crypto market all this time, I think everyone here can feel the In the first quarter of 2023, things were buoyant and indeed some of the people's optimism for the crypto market was up.

Privacy currencies in the crypto space are becoming a hot topic in the blockchain and crypto community. My point is that using privacy currencies has its own advantages and disadvantages. The advantage of using Privacy currencies is to help users protect privacy and secure transactions, especially when there are high security requirements. In addition, these currencies can help users avoid being tracked or monitored by other governments, organizations or individuals. However, using privacy currencies also has opposites such as the risk of using this money for illegal activities such as money laundering and illegal item trade. Privacy currencies can also be banned or restricted by governments or financial institutions and make currency conversion difficult for those who want to convert to mainstream cryptocurrencies. As such, on a case-by-case basis, the use of privacy currencies may or may not be appropriate, and the use of these currencies must comply with the law and strict regulatory requirements.