The SEC is right. It's not about Bitcoin, it's about centralized shitcoins.

[fruktik]

Nobody ever said Bitcoin is targeted directly by SEC but the problem is started with the actions of SEC. They are indirectly disturbing the Bitcoin economic workflow and in reality it's getting worst as the related products are failing to survive in the market. For example, exchanges, p2p platforms, financial institutes directly involved with BTC trades and much more are getting targeted and thus they are failing to run the business properly. The aftermath? Bitcoin that is in possession of those institutes is getting ceased and that actually belongs to the users of those platforms. Now, its big world and there are many people so we can't ask everyone to bend their minds to use decentralized platforms and that's different story so they are going to use these handy tools which ultimately fails bitcoin. Also, with the time SEC gonna put hard burden in Bitcoin's operation so it's still not entirely true what you mentioned about them. SEC does have Devils eyes.

          Have you ever thought about the fact that all this concerns speculative operations with coins and tokens? If you use most crypto projects for their intended purpose, then decentralization is preserved.
          Most people in the crypto world have taken a wrong turn. They try to maximize profits, but they forgot about the basic principles. Why was blockchain technology developed with its derivatives? When you go the wrong way, then there will be much more obstacles. This is what we have seen in recent years.

[karabiber]

The SEC is not our enemy nor it was against crypto adoption but they are against useless projects that scammers tried to get some space on known exchanges and use this as a medium to scam innocent people. Unfortunately, most of us misunderstood what they want to happen in the crypto space and that is to wipe out all shitcoins that flooded the market due to rising complaints against them.
They are helping the crypto space free from such fraudulent acts and scam projects - and I see their vital role in improving and building trust.

The SEC wants to consolidate people around Bitcoin and its attempts to do so are not unsuccessful. The SEC may be trying to protect investor citizens by sanctioning Binance US but logging into crypto or other exchanges is of the individual's free will. No one forces anyone to buy coins. If Bitcoin's dominance covers half of the market, altcoins cover the other half. We can't put the blame on other coins by calling it shitcoin.

There are necessarily rotten apples everywhere and after they are sorted out, we'll be on our way. It is also necessary to look at the behavior of people who invest in shitcoins in the crypto markets. These are people who want to get rich fast and they want to enjoy their life without effort but fail every time. All these developments show that in the next halving Bitcoin will diverge with all other coins. The regulatory stance of SEC seems to be something beneficial for Bitcoin.

[slapper]

The SEC is not our enemy nor it was against crypto adoption but they are against useless projects that scammers tried to get some space on known exchanges and use this as a medium to scam innocent people. Unfortunately, most of us misunderstood what they want to happen in the crypto space and that is to wipe out all shitcoins that flooded the market due to rising complaints against them.
They are helping the crypto space free from such fraudulent acts and scam projects - and I see their vital role in improving and building trust.

The SEC wants to consolidate people around Bitcoin and its attempts to do so are not unsuccessful. The SEC may be trying to protect investor citizens by sanctioning Binance US but logging into crypto or other exchanges is of the individual's free will. No one forces anyone to buy coins. If Bitcoin's dominance covers half of the market, altcoins cover the other half. We can't put the blame on other coins by calling it shitcoin.

There are necessarily rotten apples everywhere and after they are sorted out, we'll be on our way. It is also necessary to look at the behavior of people who invest in shitcoins in the crypto markets. These are people who want to get rich fast and they want to enjoy their life without effort but fail every time. All these developments show that in the next halving Bitcoin will diverge with all other coins. The regulatory stance of SEC seems to be something beneficial for Bitcoin.

Interesting, you're painting the SEC as the crypto universe's watchful protector, huh? That's a fascinating viewpoint! Who wouldn't welcome a steadfast defender against the onslaught of 'shitcoins'? Here's a thought, though: Could it be that the so-called 'worthless' ventures aren't all that futile? And what of the individuals who struck gold by wagering on them? The border separating a ground-breaking concept and a 'shitcoin' can be pretty thin, right? Yet, if the SEC wishes to take the role of Harry Potter's Sorting Hat, who are we to resist?

Your opinion on Bitcoin's dominance is endearing, indeed. It's as if every altcoin is merely hitching a ride on Bitcoin's success, no? Let's not overlook that many of these 'other' coins are pioneers in their own lanes. As for those seeking instant wealth, you've got a point. They often discover the tough truth: there's no such thing as a free lunch, especially not in crypto. Eagerly waiting for the spectacle at the next Bitcoin halving!

[Z390]

Sorry brother, I don't exists in crypto space only for Bitcoin, if the SEC is trying to crucify projects like Cardano I have every right to hate what they are doing, because I am a investor too.

It makes sense and also believable if we say that SEC isn't going for Bitcoin but at the same time they claimed they are helping the people from losing money, but you will be surprised that this whole move is for their own benefits.

If I am wrong why did they come into agreement with Binance exchange? What benefits for the people that are into crypto after this agreement? Stop deceiving yourself.

It's not every other coins apart from Bitcoin are only centralized shitcoins, or you are ready to call DAI a centralized shitcoin? How about Monero?

[Marvell1]

Sorry brother, I don't exists in crypto space only for Bitcoin, if the SEC is trying to crucify projects like Cardano I have every right to hate what they are doing, because I am a investor too.

It makes sense and also believable if we say that SEC isn't going for Bitcoin but at the same time they claimed they are helping the people from losing money, but you will be surprised that this whole move is for their own benefits.

If I am wrong why did they come into agreement with Binance exchange? What benefits for the people that are into crypto after this agreement? Stop deceiving yourself.

It's not every other coins apart from Bitcoin are only centralized shitcoins, or you are ready to call DAI a centralized shitcoin? How about Monero?

I don't understand why bitcoin maximalists would support the SEC in this situation. The fact that the SEC doesn't mention bitcoin directly doesn't mean they don't intend to attack it, what they are doing is planned, and they are slowly looking to control the entire industry and including bitcoin.

I don't hate bitcoin maximalists when they get annoyed with centralized exchanges and altcoins. They have their reasons, but they should take a close look at what the SEC is doing and what they want.

You are right, what the SEC is doing is for their own benefit, they are very hungry to regulate this potential market. If they succeed, we will become their next tax collection.

[Wend]

Sorry brother, I don't exists in crypto space only for Bitcoin, if the SEC is trying to crucify projects like Cardano I have every right to hate what they are doing, because I am a investor too.

It makes sense and also believable if we say that SEC isn't going for Bitcoin but at the same time they claimed they are helping the people from losing money, but you will be surprised that this whole move is for their own benefits.

If I am wrong why did they come into agreement with Binance exchange? What benefits for the people that are into crypto after this agreement? Stop deceiving yourself.

It's not every other coins apart from Bitcoin are only centralized shitcoins, or you are ready to call DAI a centralized shitcoin? How about Monero?

The SEC is part of the government, it's strange that these people are always opposing and slandering the government on a daily basis, but they are on the side of the SEC in this case. Let's all not forget that the government has never been friendly or in love with bitcoin. Just because the SEC didn't mention bitcoin this time doesn't mean they favor it.

I am like you, I am here for the crypto market, not just bitcoin, bitcoin is just a part, not all. If we are supporting the SEC to destroy binance, and destroy all altcoins, that is no different than we are supporting the destruction of bitcoin.

[stompix]

Sorry brother, I don't exists in crypto space only for Bitcoin,

Then what are you doing on Bitcointalk?

if the SEC is trying to crucify projects like Cardano I have every right to hate what they are doing, because I am a investor too.

You realize that by saying you're an investor you've just handed the SEC a victory, acknowledging they were right about Cardano?

Stop deceiving yourself.

Stop chewing used tinfoil hats!

You are right, what the SEC is doing is for their own benefit, they are very hungry to regulate this potential market. If they succeed, we will become their next tax collection.

The SEC is not in charge of taxing or planing taxing anything, that's the IRS and they are already taxing income from crypto in the US.

I don't hate bitcoin maximalists when they get annoyed with centralized exchanges and altcoins.

Good, then you agree with Satoshi that leaving your coins in charge of a 3rd party is sooooooo stupid?
That you should use cryptos as a p2p method of transferring value and as a method of protecting your wealth?
So, you understand that by taking the side of exchanges and shitcoin centralized money printing here, you're just as bad as a banker arguing against Satoshi?

If we are supporting the SEC to destroy binance, and destroy all altcoins, that is no different than we are supporting the destruction of bitcoin.

Bullshit!
The reality is that 90% would support everyone from Hitler to the Rostchilds to the Reptilians to the same government and SEC if that would mean the price of the shitcoin they hold would double overnight even if it means killing Bitcoin!
Why should I care about some shitcoin lovers when all they do all day long is bashing Bitcoin and describe it as old low specs high tech that can't do a thing and is million years behind their stellar shitcoin?

Why should I take the side of Binance when they were charging more for Bitcoin withdrawals while making their shitcoin clone 20 times cheaper, not to mention it putting it on top in search results if you search for Bitcoin?
Why should take the side of CZ when he only has one purpose, to make his BNB replace Bitcoin everywhere?

[KiaKia]

This is why we can’t blame SEC that much since its their job to protect the interest of the public from those businesses who are taking advantage the ignorance of the public. Yes, they are not targeting Bitcoin but since those centralized exchanges are big enough to influence the whole market, the price of BTC are also reacting to this while the many is panicking. Let’s see how Binance will work on this, and i think they’ll face more problems with other country as well, hope they can settle this.

That is if SEC is even protecting the interest of the public for real, I do not believe this because you can't tell me that FTX customers find just disappeared into thin air, where have the money gone to? Who are the accomplice of this FTX madness? Just that Sam guy and his so called assistant in crime? I do not believe that, if the SEC chairman is into other projects in the space and not Bitcoin then there is more that meet the eye, they are pretending to be working for the public but they are not, it's always about the money.

[Unbunplease]

The SEC works solely in the interests of the big owners. Any stock exchange or project can declare itself bankrupt, and no SEC can stop it. In fact, anyone can go bankrupt, because nobody knows how things will really go tomorrow or later. What is happening now is just a game of big people.

[buwaytress]

I'm actually wondering what the fuss is all about... because hasn't the SEC (or at least US watchdogs, I can't remember the threads from before) already made it clear they specifically look at how decentralised a project is to determine if it's a security? Bitcoin passed the test easily, Ethereum, I think has made strong cases over the years at improving that, but few other coins come close to Bitcoin's structure (or lack of). Hence why almost everything else is a shitcoin.

[o48o]

I'm tired to read all the comments in the vein of "the SEC is threatening the crypto world" or "the SEC wants Bitcoin to stay small".  

The SEC's action against Coinbase and Binance has quite clear accusations: these exchanges allowed trading of securities without being authorized to do so.
-cut-

While i'll sort of agree the rest of stuff you said, i don''t see the part i bolded quite accurate. Those were securities after SEC said so. So they were only trading securities after they were declared as securities. It's safe to assume that most CEXes acted in good faith that those would be utility coins/tokens.

That being said, there was lot of shady stuff happening which i never understood to be legal, like "staking" for example. It wasn't staking as in securing the chain, it was just paying interest for keeping tokens "locked". Most likely those were even lended elsewhere.

One thing that still weirded me out is that CEXes like binance were giving lambos and other prices for volume manipulation when they were still starting their operation. I think many of them still hold "trading competition", which is a misleading name as it only counts how much volume you manage to make, and obviously those affected to price as well. Which makes it a price manipulation.

That just can't be legal. I guess SEC moves step b step and this was most urgent issue.

[d5000]

Nearly all crypto projects are about running away with investors money, they do it because it's perfectly legal to do. There is no contract between an investor and the developer, like in real life projects.

You're totally right ... it's very difficult to prosecute things like rugpulling. I think the only way is analyzing communications: if something can be interpreted as "promising a return" then you can be violating laws against misleading advertising.

Sorry brother, I don't exists in crypto space only for Bitcoin, if the SEC is trying to crucify projects like Cardano I have every right to hate what they are doing, because I am a investor too.

I appreciate your honesty Cardano was a coin I initially also considered interesting (due to its whitepaper and PoS algorithm). However, the way it was conceived, with an enormous premine, and a completely centralized development - in the end, it can only be described as a security.

What's however a bit paradoxical is that the SEC move's idea is customer protection. But those customers who had bought at overvalued prices (maybe because they thought it was decentralized) are now losing money. Not beautiful. But what should the SEC do? The SEC hasn't pushed down Cardano coins directly, it were speculators considering the "security" categorization as "bad news" and a reason to short the coin. There is no way to fix this mess without collateral damage.

If I am wrong why did they come into agreement with Binance exchange? What benefits for the people that are into crypto after this agreement?

The whole point of the agreement is that that Binance US's structure will be more transparent after the agreement. So there is some benefit for the customers of the exchange, and that's what's important in this case. The rest of the crypto world should not be affected (only by price volatility).

It's not every other coins apart from Bitcoin are only centralized shitcoins, or you are ready to call DAI a centralized shitcoin? How about Monero?

- DAI - yep, it has lots of centralized elements.
- Monero - No. In earlier post I mentioned it as one of the few altcoins which are decentralized and not securities (see here for a list of those I consider decentralized, with some edge cases like Dash)

While i'll sort of agree the rest of stuff you said, i don''t see the part i bolded quite accurate. Those were securities after SEC said so. So they were only trading securities after they were declared as securities. It's safe to assume that most CEXes acted in good faith that those would be utility coins/tokens.

For me it was pretty clear since I saw what the Howey test is about that many coins would fall under the "security" umbrella. The centralized management, profit expectations, advertising, PoS as "common enterprise" are all elements which can't be ignored, but were ignored by the exchanges. There were already many hints from SEC officials, I believe even still during the Trump presidency when Gensler still wasn't leading it.

The problem in my opinion was that the US exchanges depended deeply on income from trading with coins of this category. Maybe even some calculated that a fine would be less problematic than delisting all coins which were in danger to be declared "securities". It will be interesting how the end result of this "purging" will be: if they chose to delist all coins in danger, or register as securities exchange for the coins where this may be possible, etc.. Of course, if Ethereum is declared a security (which is perfectly possible in my opinion) then there will be more turbulences ahead.

[goldkingcoiner]

I have not heard of the SEC making this about Bitcoin in some way or another. I think that mostly came from rumors and hearsay from the community after hearing the news of SEC going against multiple crypto. That became SEC going against all crypto and that became SEC is going against Bitcoin.

Its a laughable thought, because thats not true. The SEC is not going against Bitcoin nor could it, if it wanted to.

The best thing to do is not to spread further FUD about Bitcoin every time the broader mention of cryptocurrency is in the news. Anything which is not really decentralized is going to collapse, as it should.

[Darker45]

I have not heard of the SEC making this about Bitcoin in some way or another. I think that mostly came from rumors and hearsay from the community after hearing the news of SEC going against multiple crypto. That became SEC going against all crypto and that became SEC is going against Bitcoin.

Its a laughable thought, because thats not true. The SEC is not going against Bitcoin nor could it, if it wanted to.

The best thing to do is not to spread further FUD about Bitcoin every time the broader mention of cryptocurrency is in the news. Anything which is not really decentralized is going to collapse, as it should.

It's probably because Binance, for example, is too closely associated with Bitcoin that it appears to many that Binance represents Bitcoin in one way or another. Of course, while Binance indeed helped a lot in giving people convenient access to Bitcoin, it simply isn't true. As a matter of fact, the way Binance does business with Bitcoin is exactly what Bitcoin finds problematic and tries to solve.

While I agree that "anything which is not really decentralized is going to collapse, as it should," I think it will not be happening soon. If we are to ask a crypto layman of the first thing that comes to his/her mind when talking of Bitcoin, I'm afraid he/she might not even mention decentralization but possibly Coinbase or Binance.

Things will certainly improve in the future. Time will come people won't anymore care when a centralized Bitcoin-related business collapses.

[kro55]

This is why we can’t blame SEC that much since its their job to protect the interest of the public from those businesses who are taking advantage the ignorance of the public. Yes, they are not targeting Bitcoin but since those centralized exchanges are big enough to influence the whole market, the price of BTC are also reacting to this while the many is panicking. Let’s see how Binance will work on this, and i think they’ll face more problems with other country as well, hope they can settle this.

That is if SEC is even protecting the interest of the public for real, I do not believe this because you can't tell me that FTX customers find just disappeared into thin air, where have the money gone to? Who are the accomplice of this FTX madness? Just that Sam guy and his so called assistant in crime? I do not believe that, if the SEC chairman is into other projects in the space and not Bitcoin then there is more that meet the eye, they are pretending to be working for the public but they are not, it's always about the money.

Is it naive to believe that what the SEC is doing is for the benefit of the community? Are they really such good people? You are right, today's world is operating when money and personal interests always come first, what the SEC is doing is for their benefit, they want to make more money from this market.

It is difficult to know how big the greed of the SEC is, although there is an agreement between the SEC and Binance, I believe everything is not over yet. Let time tell all, I predict the SEC will have another wave of attacks on us in the near future.

[Wend]

If we are supporting the SEC to destroy binance, and destroy all altcoins, that is no different than we are supporting the destruction of bitcoin.

Bullshit!
The reality is that 90% would support everyone from Hitler to the Rostchilds to the Reptilians to the same government and SEC if that would mean the price of the shitcoin they hold would double overnight even if it means killing Bitcoin!
Why should I care about some shitcoin lovers when all they do all day long is bashing Bitcoin and describe it as old low specs high tech that can't do a thing and is million years behind their stellar shitcoin?

Why should I take the side of Binance when they were charging more for Bitcoin withdrawals while making their shitcoin clone 20 times cheaper, not to mention it putting it on top in search results if you search for Bitcoin?
Why should take the side of CZ when he only has one purpose, to make his BNB replace Bitcoin everywhere?

I think you should watch this news, and this is what the SEC has done for us, helping the community get rid of scammer, and centralized shitcoin projects. You guys are bitcoin maximalists, it's understandable that you hate CZ, but if you're in favor of the SEC it's actually a bit confusing.
You guys are bitcoin maximalists, it's understandable that you hate CZ, but if you're in favor of the SEC it's actually a bit confusing. Supporting the SEC is no different from helping the government regulate the cryptocurrency market, and bitcoin is a part of that.
https://twitter.com/bitcoinlfgo/status/1671176719737425921

[d5000]

Is it naive to believe that what the SEC is doing is for the benefit of the community? Are they really such good people?

The SEC has a clear goal, and that is to protect the rules of a part of the financial system of the US - trading with "securities".

That's not about being "good people" or not. It's simply things a public authority has to do: enforcing rules set by the legislature of the country.

You are right, today's world is operating when money and personal interests always come first, what the SEC is doing is for their benefit, they want to make more money from this market.

The SEC isn't entitled to "make money from this market" I don't know the exact rules but I'd be quite confident the US laws have some strict protection in force to prevent SEC officials from "insider speculation".

You may be referring to possible corruption allegations (for example due to SBF's family ties to some SEC officials). But I also think if the SEC made something shady here it would be discovered, as a lot of eyes are on them. The US is not Argentina 

[vv181]

If we are supporting the SEC to destroy binance, and destroy all altcoins, that is no different than we are supporting the destruction of bitcoin.

Bullshit!
~
Why should I care about some shitcoin lovers when all they do all day long is bashing Bitcoin and describe it as old low specs high tech that can't do a thing and is million years behind their stellar shitcoin?

Why should I take the side of Binance when they were charging more for Bitcoin withdrawals while making their shitcoin clone 20 times cheaper, not to mention it putting it on top in search results if you search for Bitcoin?
Why should take the side of CZ when he only has one purpose, to make his BNB replace Bitcoin everywhere?

~
but if you're in favor of the SEC it's actually a bit confusing. Supporting the SEC is no different from helping the government regulate the cryptocurrency market, and bitcoin is a part of that.

Uhm, another bullshit.

SEC regulates securities. Bitcoin is not a security. Please do not incorporate centralized coins and tokens with Bitcoin. Bitcoin won't go down along with it.

Government regulation toward cryptocurrency is a certainty, without a doubt it will come sooner or later for whatever reason.

I don't understand why bitcoin maximalists would support the SEC in this situation.

That is absurd at best. There is clarity between what is securities and what is not. The distinction is clear, there is no reason it should be perceived as a support toward SEC.

The fact that the SEC doesn't mention bitcoin directly doesn't mean they don't intend to attack it, what they are doing is planned, and they are slowly looking to control the entire industry and including bitcoin.

I have not heard of the SEC making this about Bitcoin in some way or another.

In fact, Gary Gensler already suggests way long ago that everything other than Bitcoin can be considered as a securities.

[Smartprofit]

Indeed, at this time, the SEC is not trying to claim that Bitcoin is a security. 

Accordingly, according to the position of the SEC, Bitcoin is not subject to regulation by this government organization.  However, the SEC claims that it has every right to regulate tokens, altcoins, and stablecoins.  Thus, this state organization is trying to take control of the entire financial system of the virtual space. 

It should also not be forgotten that SEC executives have repeatedly spoken positively about the SBDC.  And SBDC is a direct competitor to Bitcoin. 

Therefore, we can conclude that further attacks on the first cryptocurrency by state regulators are still ahead.  In particular, accusations against Bitcoin are likely to be related to the fact that the functioning of its network is harmful to the environment.

[d5000]

However, the SEC claims that it has every right to regulate tokens, altcoins, and stablecoins.  Thus, this state organization is trying to take control of the entire financial system of the virtual space.

They have only the right to regulate those altcoins and tokens which are securities. Over other altcoins they don't have any regulatory oversight.

And much more important: They only regulate trading activities in the US, not worldwide - i.e. for 4% of the world population only. That includes ICOs if they're also targeted to US investors or take place in the US. But altcoins can conduct ICOs outside of the US and exclude US investors, and they're not affected by the SEC at all (they may be affected by decisions of their own national authorities though).

It should also not be forgotten that SEC executives have repeatedly spoken positively about the SBDC.  And SBDC is a direct competitor to Bitcoin.

I think you mean CBDCs, or what is SBDC? CBDC is not a direct competitor to Bitcoin. It's a competitor to stablecoins and virtual money providers like PayPal, because it's a fiat-linked asset.

Bitcoin currently is too volatile to be a competitor, it could however be a competitor in the future. The point is: CDBCs will not compete at the same market for the public that buys Bitcoin today. So CBDCs will only have minor incidence on Bitcoin's price. The only scenario where I can see harm to Bitcoin's price would be a Tether insolvency because CBDCs took away their clients. But I don't think this is highly likely.