Fun & learning with Sparrow Wallet on Electrum EPS & Bitcoin Core QT in Win 11

[arabspaceship123]

I'm learning & having fun during my Bitcoin testing. I've used Bitcon Core, Electrum Personal Server & Electrum Wallet on Windows so decided to test Sparrow Wallet for learning on whirlpool mix.

Sparrow wallet server settings are simple so I didn't have difficulty connecting Sparrow wallet to Bitcoin Core or localhost in Electrum Personal Server. Everything's easy to connect so I've sent small funds. In my Unspent Transaction Outputs the transaction's present there but premix & send options aren't displayed.


I've created a second Electrum wallet for receiving bitcoins independently from the wallet I'm using in Sparrow wallet but in Analysis it's showing possible self transfer. I've returned to the second Electrum wallet to retrieve new addresses but it didn't change self transfer warnings in Sparrow Wallet.

I don't know where I've gone wrong. If you're using Sparrow wallet how do you avoid self transfer warnings but proceed in whirlpool mix securely?

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[BitMaxz]

It seems Sparrow wallet detects that you are using the same wallet which is why you get the self-transfer warning you might need to separate them according to this link below you can separate them with different sets of configs.

- https://sparrowwallet.com/docs/faq.html#where-does-sparrow-store-data

I suggest check the sparrow.log you can find it under the sparrow home folder or by going to the Help > Show Log File. You should see on the logs why this warning popup

[witcher_sense]

I'm learning & having fun during my Bitcoin testing. I've used Bitcon Core, Electrum Personal Server & Electrum Wallet on Windows so decided to test Sparrow Wallet for learning on whirlpool mix.

Sparrow wallet server settings are simple so I didn't have difficulty connecting Sparrow wallet to Bitcoin Core or localhost in Electrum Personal Server. Everything's easy to connect so I've sent small funds. In my Unspent Transaction Outputs the transaction's present there.

I've created a second Electrum wallet for receiving bitcoins independently from the wallet I'm using in Sparrow wallet but in Analysis it's showing possible self transfer. I've returned to the second Electrum wallet to retrieve new addresses but it didn't change self transfer warnings in Sparrow Wallet.

I don't know where I've gone wrong. If you're using Sparrow wallet how do you avoid self transfer warnings but proceed in whirlpool mix securely?

"Possible self-transfer" is one of the blockchain analysis heuristics used to cluster an entity. When software detects transactions with a single output or when it is unable to determine which address change has been sent to, it automatically assumes that a user just sent funds to himself, that is, to the address to which he has a private key. It is arguably one of the most accurate metrics because users rarely have an exact amount they need to make a payment: in most cases, a transaction will have at least two outputs, one for actual payment, and the other for change that is sent back to the user making a payment. So, no matter how many wallets you create, "changeless" transactions may always be assumed to be self-transfers regardless of their real purpose.

[nc50lc]

I don't know where I've gone wrong. If you're using Sparrow wallet how do you avoid self transfer warnings but proceed in whirlpool mix securely?

Have you tried this link: https://sparrowwallet.com/docs/mixing-whirlpool.html#preparing-the-wallet
That has the correct steps on how to use Whirlpool in Sparrow.

Plus I don't think that it's the Analytic's fault why it wont proceed to Whirlpool.
Basically, you start in "UTXOs" tab to 'premix', not "Send".

[arabspaceship123]

It seems Sparrow wallet detects that you are using the same wallet which is why you get the self-transfer warning you might need to separate them according to this link below you can separate them with different sets of configs.

- https://sparrowwallet.com/docs/faq.html#where-does-sparrow-store-data

I suggest check the sparrow.log you can find it under the sparrow home folder or by going to the Help > Show Log File. You should see on the logs why this warning popup

The log it doesn’t show self transfer problems. The doc doesn't help because it isn't a config settings issue it's showing before send attempt.

So, no matter how many wallets you create, "changeless" transactions may always be assumed to be self-transfers regardless of their real purpose.

I wasn't prepared for error warnings. If I haven't inputted wrong they shouldn't display warnings on assumptions if it's normal.

I don't know where I've gone wrong. If you're using Sparrow wallet how do you avoid self transfer warnings but proceed in whirlpool mix securely?

Have you tried this link: https://sparrowwallet.com/docs/mixing-whirlpool.html#preparing-the-wallet
That has the correct steps on how to use Whirlpool in Sparrow.

Plus I don't think that it's the Analytic's fault why it wont proceed to Whirlpool.
Basically, you start in "UTXOs" tab to 'premix', not "Send".

It's my first whirlpool mix on Sparrow. When I open UTXOs I don't have premix, postmix & badbank options. I'm trying to find why it doesn't display mix option next to send option.

[nc50lc]

-snip-

It's my first whirlpool mix on Sparrow. When I open UTXOs I don't have premix, postmix & badbank options. I'm trying to find why it doesn't display mix option next to send option.

Is you Sparrow wallet a "Hot Wallet" which is created by generating/importing a BIP39 seed or others?
Because if it's an imported Electrum wallet keystore, it wont work on that wallet.

For testing purposes, restart Sparrow in Testnet mode (Tools->Restart in Testnet).
Create a new wallet wallet and select "Software Wallet->Mnemonic Words (BIP39)".
Then fund that wallet using testnet faucets.

[o_e_l_e_o]

It seems Sparrow wallet detects that you are using the same wallet which is why you get the self-transfer warning you might need to separate them according to this link below you can separate them with different sets of configs.

This is wrong. It has nothing to do with Sparrow detecting wallets.

Here is the code in Sparrow which applies this warning: https://github.com/sparrowwallet/sparrow/blob/3242f00812f08a72733f0a76aaaf5bd0cca68c12/src/main/java/com/sparrowwallet/sparrow/wallet/SendController.java#L1775-L1776
Sparrow is analyzing the transaction itself and saying that it will appear as a possible self transfer to other blockchain analysis firms.

It's my first whirlpool mix on Sparrow. When I open UTXOs I don't have premix, postmix & badbank options. I'm trying to find why it doesn't display mix option next to send option.

You either have the wrong type of wallet (it must be native segwit at the standard derivation path (m/84'/0'/0')), or your UTXO is too small (it will need to be around 0.00106 BTC minimum in order to create a 0.001 BTC output and pay both the pool fees and transaction fees).

[arabspaceship123]

Is you Sparrow wallet a "Hot Wallet" which is created by generating/importing a BIP39 seed or others?
Because if it's an imported Electrum wallet keystore, it wont work on that wallet.

That's the reason it didn't work. I used Electrum MPK for creating new Sparrow Wallet so it wasn't going to work. I've created a new wallet in Sparrow BIP39 without missing mix selected button. I've used the generated MPK in my windows Electrum wallet for checking receiving addresses.

For testing purposes, restart Sparrow in Testnet mode (Tools->Restart in Testnet).
Create a new wallet wallet and select "Software Wallet->Mnemonic Words (BIP39)".
Then fund that wallet using testnet faucets.

Thanks I would've experimented using testnet if I didn't uncover my mistake.

You either have the wrong type of wallet (it must be native segwit at the standard derivation path (m/84'/0'/0')), or your UTXO is too small (it will need to be around 0.00106 BTC minimum in order to create a 0.001 BTC output and pay both the pool fees and transaction fees).

Before discovering my mistake I couldn't understand why whirlpool mix wasn't available. My balance was high greater than 0.00106 BTC with native segwit wallet using m/84'/0'/0'.

I can't use Sparrow to send funds I don't have hardware device & other options aren't mine. I wanted to send funds to correct Sparrow wallet for whirlpool mix. I'm aware I can send it using Electrum wallet but I'm worried if I get stuck after whirlpool mix.

 

After whirlpool mix function ends if I can't withdraw my funds from Sparrow wallet is my balance & mixed bitcoin accesible in my Electrum wallet?

[o_e_l_e_o]

After whirlpool mix function ends if I can't withdraw my funds from Sparrow wallet is my balance & mixed bitcoin accesible in my Electrum wallet?

Yes, provided you have your Sparrow seed phrase.

Sparrow Whirlpool wallet uses the following derivation paths:

Deposit - m/84'/0'/0'
Premix - m/84'/0'/2147483645'
Postmix - m/84'/0'/2147483646'
Badbank - m/84'/0'/2147483644'

Simply import the seed phrase in to Electrum, tick the BIP39 option, choose the native segwit script type, and paste in the relevant derivation path to recover each individual account in to Electrum.

[arabspaceship123]

Thanks I did this & it worked but there's new Electrum questions for asking later. It's important I understand why Electrum wallet doesn't function the way you've explained.

After whirlpool mix function ends if I can't withdraw my funds from Sparrow wallet is my balance & mixed bitcoin accesible in my Electrum wallet?

Yes, provided you have your Sparrow seed phrase.

Sparrow Whirlpool wallet uses the following derivation paths:

Deposit - m/84'/0'/0'
Premix - m/84'/0'/2147483645'
Postmix - m/84'/0'/2147483646'
Badbank - m/84'/0'/2147483644'

Simply import the seed phrase in to Electrum, tick the BIP39 option, choose the native segwit script type, and paste in the relevant derivation path to recover each individual account in to Electrum.

I’ve completed my first whirlpool mix here’s small my review. I stopped using Sparrow on Electrum EPS so connect direct to Bitcoin Core in localhost. I’ll keep EPS for Electrum wallet tests. I haven’t sent funds from my Sparrow wallet or Sparrow created Bitcoin Core QT wallet that’ll be done soon so it’s about Sparrow wallet whirlpool mix.

Sparrow whirlpool mixed after I’d shut down the computer I wasn’t sure if the mix would work but it worked. It's set for 3 whirlpool mixes you can change it for your requirements. Sparrow whirlpool mixed once but it’s set to 3 in my settings.

If Sparrow wallet’s open there’s an option in Bitcoin Core QT to access my whirlpool mixed Bitcoin. It’s convenient & helpful because Bitcoin QT display makes it easier to choose which wallet I’m viewing.

My bitcoin sitting in Badbank wasn't mixed so should I mix them before spending?

I've paid 0.0005 BTC which I've read Samourai Wallet takes for fee. I've paid less than 0.0001 BTC which I'll assume for Sparrow wallet fee & Bitcoin fees. It's a big fee paying 0.0005 BTC for Samourai services. I don't know how much Bitcoin should be whirlpool mixed for 0.0005 BTC fee to be acceptable I'd advise 0.05 BTC so it's 1% fee. Are my estimations I close to your acceptability? Sparrow wallet and bitcoin fees are added extra.

I'm confident Sparrow functions completed but it's 1 mix on setting of 3. Should I repeat mix manually for achieve 3 whirlpool mixes? I've read it's one 0.0005 BTC fee for unlimited mixes of one UTXOs.

When whirlpool mixing which priority's best setting?



It's amazing I'm getting free limitless help so I'll continue asking questions & seeking advice. Thanks 

[o_e_l_e_o]

Sparrow whirlpool mixed after I’d shut down the computer I wasn’t sure if the mix would work but it worked.

The transaction must have been signed before you shut down. If you want to continue remixing, you'll need to keep both Core and Sparrow running (and hopefully you are also using Sparrow over Tor).

My bitcoin sitting in Badbank wasn't mixed so should I mix them before spending?

That's correct. Badbank holds your unmixed changed from Tx0. You will need to mix this separately or spend it in some other way which does not compromise your privacy. Here is some advice: https://bitcoiner.guide/doxxic/

It's a big fee paying 0.0005 BTC for Samourai services.

The fee is static regardless of much you coinjoin. You can see the fees for the different pools here: https://docs.samourai.io/whirlpool/basic-concepts

Take the 0.01 BTC pool as an example. You can enroll a single output of 0.01 BTC and pay 0.0005 BTC in fees (which is 5%), or you can enroll 70 outputs of 0.01 BTC and pay 0.0005 BTC in fees (which is 0.07%).

I'm confident Sparrow functions completed but it's 1 mix on setting of 3. Should I repeat mix manually for achieve 3 whirlpool mixes? I've read it's one 0.0005 BTC fee for unlimited mixes of one UTXOs.

You don't need to do anything except leave Core, Tor, and Sparrow running. Any outputs in your post-mix wallet should be automatically remixed.

[arabspaceship123]

Sparrow whirlpool mixed after I’d shut down the computer I wasn’t sure if the mix would work but it worked.

The transaction must have been signed before you shut down. If you want to continue remixing, you'll need to keep both Core and Sparrow running (and hopefully you are also using Sparrow over Tor).

I've opened Tor browser is that good for Sparrow? I've sent my first bitcoin postmix from Sparrow Wallet. It's stuck in mempool for many hours I don't want to increase my fee I'll prefer refund. When I choose Cancel Transaction RBF link I'm taken back to send BTC page. How to cancel transaction for refund?

Here is some advice: https://bitcoiner.guide/doxxic/
You can see the fees for the different pools here: https://docs.samourai.io/whirlpool/basic-concepts

Thanks

You don't need to do anything except leave Core, Tor, and Sparrow running. Any outputs in your post-mix wallet should be automatically remixed.

My computer's been on but it's stuck on 1 mix so it's very slow to use but is it because of Samourai or Sparrow?

I've made a mistake I've whirlpool mixed my $26 badbank balance in 0.0005 BTC fee. I'm sure I've selected 0.00005 BTC pool so that's $14 fee. I've paid 0.001 BTC for whirlpool mix fees on small balances.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I've opened Tor browser is that good for Sparrow?

Read the section here regarding Tor: https://sparrowwallet.com/docs/mixing-whirlpool.html#starting-the-mix

You want Sparrow to connect to the coinjoin coordinator via Tor to maintain your privacy.

I've sent my first bitcoin postmix from Sparrow Wallet. It's stuck in mempool for many hours I don't want to increase my fee I'll prefer refund. When I choose Cancel Transaction RBF link I'm taken back to send BTC page. How to cancel transaction for refund?

Firstly I would say that spending coins after a single coinjoin is not best practice. Far better to leave them and let them be remixed for free as many times as you can to increase your anonymity set. Secondly, judging by your screenshots, I'm not sure they've been mixed at all yet. After the initial coinjoin, it should say 1 mix, not 0. Has your initial coinjoin transaction been broadcast and confirmed?

My computer's been on but it's stuck on 1 mix so it's very slow to use but is it because of Samourai or Sparrow?

It's common for nothing to happen for a while. Free remixes are dependent on new liquidity entering the pool, as well as your UTXOs being randomly selected from all the UTXOs in the pool. This is the biggest downside to Samourai in my experience. You can sometimes be waiting days for even a single remix. Having more UTXOs in the pool and leaving your wallets running 24/7 will make you more likely to get remixed.

The progress bar beside one of your UTXOs should increase to around 30%, and if you mouse over it it should say "Registered input". This way you know you are waiting for a remix. In your screenshot with the progress bar completely empty, then I suspect your wallet is not properly connecting to either the coordinator or the network.

[arabspaceship123]

Firstly I would say that spending coins after a single coinjoin is not best practice. Far better to leave them and let them be remixed for free as many times as you can to increase your anonymity set. Secondly, judging by your screenshots, I'm not sure they've been mixed at all yet. After the initial coinjoin, it should say 1 mix, not 0. Has your initial coinjoin transaction been broadcast and confirmed?

I read 3 mixes was minimum best practice in Sparrow Wallet. My coinjoins didn't reach 3 mixes I had 1 transaction on 2 mixes the remaining others had 1 mix.

It's common for nothing to happen for a while. Free remixes are dependent on new liquidity entering the pool, as well as your UTXOs being randomly selected from all the UTXOs in the pool. This is the biggest downside to Samourai in my experience. You can sometimes be waiting days for even a single remix. Having more UTXOs in the pool and leaving your wallets running 24/7 will make you more likely to get remixed.

Running Sparrow wallet 24/7 to shorten mixes time's a big downside. Sparrow wallet's a nice interface to use with good functions but mixing's unpredictable so I can't use it.

The progress bar beside one of your UTXOs should increase to around 30%, and if you mouse over it it should say "Registered input". This way you know you are waiting for a remix. In your screenshot with the progress bar completely empty, then I suspect your wallet is not properly connecting to either the coordinator or the network.

The screenshot's taken hours after commencing whirlpool mix. Progress bar didn't move. Consequently I'd registered 200-300 inputs but mixes didn't reach 3 so frustration forced me to cancel the mixes.

Sparrow wallet's easy to understand software but it's untimely whirlpool mix makes it unsuitable to use. Thanks for replies I'm keeping the thread open to answer questions. My testing's complete so I'll lock soon.