Portal launches demo for atomic swaps for ordinal inscriptions

[Vlad BTCTKVR]

Hi, guys!

I've been aware of Portal for about 2 years now: they're building a way to do cross-chain atomic swaps on layer 2s to increase liquidity on the Lightning network and also build a trustless way to do decentralized exchanges. But more recently, they've slightly shifted focus to also include ordinal inscriptions on Bitcoin's base layer. Basically, you can buy ordinals using the Lightning network (which automatically includes holders of USDT, WBTC or ETH on other chains).

In the near future, I can see this as being a user-friendly way to build digital collectible markets on Bitcoin. Something like OpenSea, but much more elegant in its design and denominated in BTC.

I thought it was an interesting concept, so I wrote an article about it. Hope some of you will find it useful 🫡

https://bitcoin-takeover.com/portal-presents-ordinal-atomic-swap-tech-demo/

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[mendace]

I find this ordinals thing really annoying and I hope it ends as soon as possible.  It all seems like a big bubble ready to burst and someone will get hurt as usual.  Bitcoin was not born to exchange stickers but to solve a problem of financial freedom, so that is not the right purpose to use it.

[elevates]

I find this ordinals thing really annoying and I hope it ends as soon as possible.  It all seems like a big bubble ready to burst and someone will get hurt as usual.  Bitcoin was not born to exchange stickers but to solve a problem of financial freedom, so that is not the right purpose to use it.

None of us will get hurt! The problem was high transaction fees as most shitcoin traders were manipulating the fees. The miners supported them and If you want to blame anyone then blame those who updated the blockchain with taproot & miners. The issue of high fees to an extent has been resolved as it was a few weeks prior. In the coming times, the hype will dry down and we will get back to what we were experiencing earlier. With ordinals, we are still part of financial freedom, you might need to rethink your ideology of Bitcoin.

[mendace]

I find this ordinals thing really annoying and I hope it ends as soon as possible.  It all seems like a big bubble ready to burst and someone will get hurt as usual.  Bitcoin was not born to exchange stickers but to solve a problem of financial freedom, so that is not the right purpose to use it.

None of us will get hurt! The problem was high transaction fees as most shitcoin traders were manipulating the fees. The miners supported them and If you want to blame anyone then blame those who updated the blockchain with taproot & miners. The issue of high fees to an extent has been resolved as it was a few weeks prior. In the coming times, the hype will dry down and we will get back to what we were experiencing earlier. With ordinals, we are still part of financial freedom, you might need to rethink your ideology of Bitcoin.

The problem is not only commissions but also the very high price of some JPEGs such as the "points" of the same creators of the monkeys on Ethereum, what will remain after this hype?  A trivial JPEG that has no value.  Think back to the concept of financial freedom I know Bitcoin very well and I don't want to see this crap.

[serveria.com]

Hi, guys!

I've been aware of Portal for about 2 years now: they're building a way to do cross-chain atomic swaps on layer 2s to increase liquidity on the Lightning network and also build a trustless way to do decentralized exchanges. But more recently, they've slightly shifted focus to also include ordinal inscriptions on Bitcoin's base layer. Basically, you can buy ordinals using the Lightning network (which automatically includes holders of USDT, WBTC or ETH on other chains).

In the near future, I can see this as being a user-friendly way to build digital collectible markets on Bitcoin. Something like OpenSea, but much more elegant in its design and denominated in BTC.

I thought it was an interesting concept, so I wrote an article about it. Hope some of you will find it useful 🫡

https://bitcoin-takeover.com/portal-presents-ordinal-atomic-swap-tech-demo/

I'm not against ordinals per se but I don't like the effect they're causing on the Bitcoin network. If you'll find a way to migrate them completely to LN and stay there, that would be great!

[elevates]

The problem is not only commissions but also the very high price of some JPEGs such as the "points" of the same creators of the monkeys on Ethereum, what will remain after this hype?  A trivial JPEG that has no value.  Think back to the concept of financial freedom I know Bitcoin very well and I don't want to see this crap.

I do not care about the high price! What I personally care about is that through such shit projects, Bitcoin is getting more exposure. We all know how our community was treated by other communities that were creating an ecosystem around their blockchain. At last Bitcoin blockchain is now a level up considering it is one of the oldest. The whole idea of NFT was to help graphic designers as of now it has become a shit concept. In Bear market NFTs were still in green. Let them enjoy the for the time being as we all know who would really enjoy it!  

[DooMAD]

The problem is not only commissions but also the very high price of some JPEGs such as the "points" of the same creators of the monkeys on Ethereum, what will remain after this hype?  A trivial JPEG that has no value.  Think back to the concept of financial freedom I know Bitcoin very well and I don't want to see this crap.

All we can really do is educate people.  People do sometimes collect odd things that most people don't see value in.  But I can't see how anyone could perceive assorted JPEGs as "collectables".  If there was ever a distinction to be made between 'intrinsic value' and 'no value', nothing highlights it better than Ordinals.

Unless you can find a greater fool to sell the magic beans to, the magic beans are, in fact, worthless.

[elevates]

Stop blaming Taproot mindlessly. While Taproot let people create TX with script size higher than 10000 bytes, Ordinal is possible without Taproot and SegWit.

Then why it never happened before the Taproot update? Why suddenly now? I am not blaming anyone here I am pointing out the pain area which caused the whole issue. If you disagree with my argument then it is your choice. I only know what was the reason and how it was done. In the future, we might see another situation similar to what we experienced a few months back. At that time will you still say the same thing?

[franky1]

Stop blaming Taproot mindlessly. While Taproot let people create TX with script size higher than 10000 bytes, Ordinal is possible without Taproot and SegWit.

there are multiple versions of ordinals
there's v1 (first-sat theory) which is a broken economic theory that does not work, all it takes is simple use of math and logic to see it does not work

there's v2. which is the MEMe junk which is 100% caused by the taproot bad assuption made about not needing to check script lengths that allowed memes to be possible

there's v2 with is the json junk which yes can also be done via other methods such as opreturn.

but still none of these versions have value as none of them have true economic proof of transfer capability. ordinals theory is debunked right from the start and all subsequent versions have their own flaws ontop.


as for using lightning..
if we were to believe in the theory of a inscription tags itself to a certain UTXO.. when making lightning channel that UTXO is LOCKED to a channel. meaning again not transfer out of channel occurs. thus there is no change of ownership in LN
lightning payments is not about the movement of a UTXO to a recipient. the UTXO's never move

however these ordinal junk doesn not even tag themselves to a UTXO. so flawed right from the start.

so pointless with trying to play with crap broken networks like LN to pretend to move crap broken theories like ordinals

all of this is a crappy shitty game of bloating bitcoin and annoying bitcoiners and then trying to cause hype and promoting LN as a useful thing.. all of which are just crap.

[larry_vw_1955]

there are multiple versions of ordinals
there's v1 (first-sat theory) which is a broken economic theory that does not work, all it takes is simple use of math and logic to see it does not work

there's v2. which is the MEMe junk which is 100% caused by the taproot bad assuption made about not needing to check script lengths that allowed memes to be possible

don't forget about recursive ordinals.

there's v2 with is the json junk which yes can also be done via other methods such as opreturn.

you could even store nfts using op return but it would be more costly plus since it is provably unspendable, people would prune it which is not the point of making an nft. the point of making an nft is so everyone stores it and it never goes away. you know that.

but still none of these versions have value as none of them have true economic proof of transfer capability. ordinals theory is debunked right from the start and all subsequent versions have their own flaws ontop.

and yet it all works amazingly well. even with your perceived flaws. kind of like bitcoin right? bitcoin has flaws but it still works. same idea.

as for using lightning..

all of this is a crappy shitty game of bloating bitcoin and annoying bitcoiners and then trying to cause hype and promoting LN as a useful thing.. all of which are just crap.

you never have anything good to say about the lightning network. maybe you just think that everybody should pay the standard bitcoin layer 1 transaction fee if they want to "send money". well that might work for someone who has 100 bitcoin and a fee is not going to hurt them at all but maybe the little guy is different. maybe he can't afford a $20 fee. or even $10.

[franky1]

larry the well trained doom-advert troll

funny part is you dont want people to use bitcoin built you want bitcoin to be filled with junk. you want the junk to continue and for the junk to make the fee's be high..
its funny to see you pretend to care about the little people yet be the one promoting the crap people should used instead

good luck with you cult life. but one day you will wise up

and by the way no you cant put NFT on OPreturn
you can add dead weight junk via 80byte limit per opreturn. to bloat up the blockchain.. but no u cant do nft on opreturn because you cant spend opreturns thus again they are not NFT

when will you even dare try to learn basic economic, bitcoin and logic things.. you have wasted months ingoring the ability to learn to instead just recite culty crap advertising of scammy systems

[larry_vw_1955]

funny part is you dont want people to use bitcoin built you want bitcoin to be filled with junk. you want the junk to continue and for the junk to make the fee's be high..
its funny to see you pretend to care about the little people yet be the one promoting the crap people should used instead

we can't control what bitcoin is used for franky. we can control how we personally use it but that's about it. just like you can't (and shouldn't be able to) dictate to other people how they use their fiat. how they use their fiat has nothing to do with you. even if it increases prices for you. the higher the demand the higher the price but are you going to sit around complaining that too many people are buying oranges so it's making them more expensive for you? and then further state that they shouldn't be able to buy oranges? because it makes them more expensive for you?

good luck with you cult life. but one day you will wise up

i'm not the one with ethereum looking to use a bridge to buy something on the bitcoin blockchain though. i would just sell my ETH and buy bitcoin with it if bitcoin has any use to me. if not then I wouldn't even be involved. so maybe i'm smarter than you think.

and by the way no you cant put NFT on OPreturn
you can add dead weight junk via 80byte limit per opreturn. to bloat up the blockchain.. but no u cant do nft on opreturn because you cant spend opreturns thus again they are not NFT

well you can't spend ordinals but they found a way to "transfer" them. right? not that you agree with it but everyone else does so it's kind of a standard...

when will you even dare try to learn basic economic, bitcoin and logic things.. you have wasted months ingoring the ability to learn to instead just recite culty crap advertising of scammy systems

they aren't getting rid of ordinals franky. it's as simple as that. so we have to learn to adapt and deal with it. i guess that's the solution.

[franky1]

ordinals are a scam, the theory is broke. simple understanding of math, logic, economics, code and looking at blockchain data of how bitcoins proof of transfer, prove the dead weight data appended to tx doesnt work as described

however you just want people that want the scam to stop, to just shut up and accept the scam should continue..

people getting scammed is not proof that it works as a economic viable unit of valu. its proof that its a scam when they get scammed, seeing scammers happy that they scam is not proof that it works as a economic viable unit of value. its proof the scammers have scammed, where victims are not owning anything but a loss of wealth

whilst those that know economics, code, logic and maths want to inform others how scammy ordinals is.. but you again dont want people to even talk about the scam

goodluck with your life.. and very strange when everyone reads the stuff you advocate.

as for bitcoin. you want bitcoin(oranges) to get expensive to acquire or trade with. no i dont mean buying the orange i just mean charging people high fee's just to move an orange hand to hand.. where by you want it to only be supplied to the elites, and then you want to tell everyone else to go play with other units like LemoNs

funny part is you are not a "elite" but you are soo script happy to want bitcoin to be made annoying for people of your low income amount. thus shooting yourself in the foot eventually. just to promote something that means eventually you wont be able to handle bitcoin yourself. pushing even yourself into only using other networks
who are you actually helping by your strategy. because its certainly not yourself

[larry_vw_1955]

ordinals are a scam, the theory is broke. simple understanding of math, logic, economics, code and looking at blockchain data of how bitcoins proof of transfer, prove the dead weight data appended to tx doesnt work as described

ordinals is built on top of bitcoin franky. it's not part of bitcoin core. i'm surprised you even accept lightning network exists if you refuse to accept things that are built on top of bitcoin... not saying you like LN though, apparently you dont.

however you just want people that want the scam to stop, to just shut up and accept the scam should continue..

i want them to store my transactions that is all. if they're running a full node i want them storing my transactions. what's wrong with that? just like i want my bank to store my transaction history and details. so i can go back and see everything i have purchased or whatever. that might be important for some reason. and it seems like you don't want me to be able to do that. now as far as what my transactions are for, that's really no body's business but i want them stored. just like everyone elses are.

people getting scammed is not proof that it works as a economic viable unit of valu. its proof that its a scam when they get scammed, seeing scammers happy that they scam is not proof that it works as a economic viable unit of value. its proof the scammers have scammed, where victims are not owning anything but a loss of wealth

i haven't heard of anyone buying a bitcoin ordinal and then saying they got scammed because they disagree with how ordinals works. but wouldn't you agree that someone that operated like that is doing things in the wrong order? they need to learn how something works first before jumping in with both feet. that way if they have some type of issue with how it works they don't need to become involved with it in the first place. does that sound reasonable?

whilst those that know economics, code, logic and maths want to inform others how scammy ordinals is.. but you again dont want people to even talk about the scam

i'm not trying to shut you up at all. but i don't necessarily agree with you saying ordinals are a scam either. you're the only person i've heard calling them a scam to be honest...

as for bitcoin. you want bitcoin(oranges) to get expensive to acquire or trade with. no i dont mean buying the orange i just mean charging people high fee's just to move an orange hand to hand.. where by you want it to only be supplied to the elites, and then you want to tell everyone else to go play with other units like LemoNs

funny part is you are not a "elite" but you are soo script happy to want bitcoin to be made annoying for people of your low income amount. thus shooting yourself in the foot eventually. just to promote something that means eventually you wont be able to handle bitcoin yourself. pushing even yourself into only using other networks
who are you actually helping by your strategy. because its certainly not yourself

the unfortunate truth is that as a network grows, we saw it with ETH, it becomes less and less for "low income people" and more for elites. like yourself who has alot of bitcoin. i bet you have 1000 bitcoin.

[DooMAD]

whilst those that know economics, code, logic

I'm not convinced you know any of these things.  You can do math sometimes.  That's about it.

and very strange when everyone reads the stuff you advocate.

Pretty rich coming from you.  

script

Reality isn't scripted.  It's just how things are.  You tell people to "do research!" and they do.  And when they inevitably arrive at a conclusion based on that they've learned, it doesn't match your magical world of make-believe and outright delusions, so you claim they're reading a script and it's an organised conspiracy.

No one sees things the way you do.  Sometimes that's a useful quality.  But in most cases it just makes you sound like an unrelenting, obnoxious lunatic.

as for bitcoin. you want bitcoin(oranges) to get expensive

Wrong.  What those who understand Bitcoin want is for the free market to determine the cost, just like it currently does.  They want the alignment of incentives to be preserved.  You would break the alignment of incentives.  Go build SocialistCoin if you want centrally-planned stuff.

[Crypt0Gore]

I find this ordinals thing really annoying and I hope it ends as soon as possible.  It all seems like a big bubble ready to burst and someone will get hurt as usual.  Bitcoin was not born to exchange stickers but to solve a problem of financial freedom, so that is not the right purpose to use it.

Some people are happy about the high transaction fee, those are the Bitcoin Miners, since this Ordinal is another good opportunity for miners to make more money, Ordinals will certainly be supported by miners and those benefitting from the high fee.

I also believe that if Bitcoin makes a new all time high by 2024 or 2025, ordinals will bring massive profits for the investors.

There is a lesson I have learnt in crypto space since 2018, the most hated new innovation in crypto space always make the newest millionaires in a new bull market, are we going to keep doing this? We said the same when meme coins was new, it's how we missed Shiba, I know that after the massive pump there is a chance that such innovation won't matter anymore, but let's ride the waves together in order to get more Bitcoin in the end.

Ordinals is a new opportunity to get good numbers of Bitcoin in coming bull market, it could happen, all the hates on memecoin in 2020 failed to stop billions of dollars flowing into them, be wise, this crypto space is speculative area, follow where new money is heading