bitcoin ETFs

[CoinJoker69]

With renewed interest in bitcoin ETFs, we see a growing flow of institutional and retail investors into the cryptocurrency market. Do you think the race to accumulate bitcoin will begin, and what consequences it may have for the price and stability of this cryptocurrency? 

[1714517541]

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[tranthidung]

With renewed interest in bitcoin ETFs, we see a growing flow of institutional and retail investors into the cryptocurrency market.â

Are you sure it will have big impacts and able to attract new big capital flows into this market?

You only assume it and let me remind you that in 2020 till 2021, institutional investors used to be consider as reasons for market to skyrocket to nearly $70,000. Again assume it is true reason, what happened to cause price fall to under $16,000?

Do you think the race to accumulate bitcoin will begin, and what consequences it may have for the price and stability of this cryptocurrency?  

Price will continue to be volatile except if governments set daily price margin for this market and has Circuit Break like stock market has. Anyway volatility won't be excluded because it is important part and beauty of a market.

Market cycles are more important and some facts about market cycles in
A volatile road to nowhere

[Baofeng]

With renewed interest in bitcoin ETFs, we see a growing flow of institutional and retail investors into the cryptocurrency market. Do you think the race to accumulate bitcoin will begin, and what consequences it may have for the price and stability of this cryptocurrency? 

The race to accumulate bitcoin is already the name of the game ever since, specially from early adopters. It's not the question of how we accumulate, it's the question on when we accumulate and when we are going to sell to make profits.



https://twitter.com/GregSchoen/status/70261648811761665

As for institutional investors accumulating, or companies holding BTC on their balance sheet,

https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/treasuries/

And they have been doing it with or without the renewed interested in Bitcoin ETF's that we have seen lately. This is smart investors, they are usually accumulate during crash, like what we witnessed last year when the price hits bottom at $15k.

[cryptomaniac_xxx]

With the growing appeal of Bitcoin ETFs, both institutional and retail investors are showing renewed interest, which could lead to a rise in its price. However, this race to acquire Bitcoin might also introduce higher levels of volatility. On the other hand, the involvement of institutional players could contribute to stability, but it's important to consider market conditions, regulations, and broader economic factors that can impact its price and overall stability.

Bitcoin is already volatile though, with or without the renewed interest from institutions. It's just that everyone might have been in the bandwagon, specially hearing BlackRock’s ETF filing, and then pause in rate hike in the U.S and other factors.

Of course there could be consequences in the end, specially if we will hear SEC rejecting Blackrock and the price might go down again. Nevertheless, it will be short term though and as we enter the second half of the year, there could be more positive news and then institutions and retail investors preparing themselves for the block halving next year.

[woez]

With renewed interest in bitcoin ETFs, we see a growing flow of institutional and retail investors into the cryptocurrency market. Do you think the race to accumulate bitcoin will begin, and what consequences it may have for the price and stability of this cryptocurrency? 

Well, interesting to see how your post continues and if I don't I the SEC agency has also granted permission to Volatility Shares' 2x Bitcoin Strategy ETF (BITX) will be the first leveraged crypto ETF available in the United States after the US SEC allowed it to become effective last Friday and here is the reference source: https://t.co/bcz5Vqv96t

[LoyceV]

Are you sure it will have big impacts and able to attract new big capital flows into this market?

I can think of a reason: an ETF would allow me to save Bitcoin for retirement with tax benefits. The downside is that I'd have to trust the ETF for several decades and pay fund costs, but (at least where I live) the tax benefits are substantial in the long run.

Considering the long term trust involved, I'd prefer a company like Vanguard over BlackRock.

[tranthidung]

I can think of a reason: an ETF would allow me to save Bitcoin for retirement with tax benefits. The downside is that I'd have to trust the ETF for several decades and pay fund costs, but (at least where I live) the tax benefits are substantial in the long run.

The idea is not good at start. Bitcoin and cryptocurrency give us control on our coins and tokens with private keys, mnemonic seeds. I could be wrong but I don't feel too many barriers from knowledge to practice in order to create a wallet and store my cryptocurrencies including bitcoin safely.

People who want to use Bitcoin ETFs and other cryptocurrency ETFs will not actually own any coin or token, and if those companies do shady things, those people will gain nothing in their hands eventually. Not only tax but also with a bigger risk, losing all their money to ETFs.

[pooya87]

I honestly don't think there is a "renewed interest" in ETFs just because it is being mentioned in the media once again. If anything the interest is diminished compared to a couple of years ago when we saw a lot of discussion and "excitement" (unreasonable excitement!) about them.

At the end of the day ETF is centralized and when you put your money there you don't own any bitcoin in reality.

[TheUltraElite]

With renewed interest in bitcoin ETFs, we see a growing flow of institutional and retail investors into the cryptocurrency market. Do you think the race to accumulate bitcoin will begin, and what consequences it may have for the price and stability of this cryptocurrency? 

This happened a few years back when Bitcoin ETFs were being first talked about and the media was buzzing with this new term. The forum was filled with threads pertaining to ETFs and how we could profit from them and then eventually the buzz died out.

At present this has been quoted to be the reason behind the bullish movement. I consider this as an opportunity to sell and cash out for the time being if you have a mid-term selling goal.

In the long run, bitcoin is better to buy in whole rather than an ETF. The concept was to bring in no-coiners into the risk field by making them buy ETFs over actual bitcoin. Lets see how this works out this time.

[thecodebear]

Big difference between applications for BTC ETFs and actually getting them approved. There have been applications for years, and given the current head of the SEC, who is in office until 2026 (and possibly until 2027 if his term gets extended), we won't be seeing an ETF anytime in the next few years.

But when ETFs finally do start getting approved, probably in 4-5 years, yes it will certainly drive accumulation of Bitcoin. It does nothing to drive the adoption of Bitcoin for what it is - a currency, but it will bring in more investors and therefore lead to price increase. Given that it unthinkable that an ETF gets approved under Gensler's reign at the SEC, ETFs should be a driving force of bitcoin price appreciation next market cycle, not the current 4-year market cycle.

But yeah, lots of people who invest don't know a thing about Bitcoin and don't know its relevance as a currency and just view it as an investment so there are a lot of folks out there in America who will pick up some Bitcoin in an ETF to get the price gains, but otherwise wouldn't bother trying to figure out how to get actual bitcoin through a crypto exchange because that is too new and 'scary' for them.


What will drive bitcoin accumulation even more though is sensible regulations in the US. Once rules are put in place for exchanges and the average person feels like it is safer to buy bitcoin thanks to govt regulations, there will likely be a flood of new people and companies buying Bitcoin. If by next market cycle we get US regulations and ETFs, there will be a huge flood of new money coming in from people and large corporations. So if all this happens next market cycle (as opposed to this cycle in which a very antagonistic SEC should at least slightly dampen the bull market these next two years, that cycle could very well be larger percentage-wise than whatever the current market cycle ends up being (for example, if Bitcoin 2x's this market cycle to ~$140k, maybe it 2.5x's next market cycle to ~$350k or higher).

[tranthidung]

Big difference between applications for BTC ETFs and actually getting them approved. There have been applications for years, and given the current head of the SEC, who is in office until 2026 (and possibly until 2027 if his term gets extended), we won't be seeing an ETF anytime in the next few years.

Many things will contribute to Bitcoin adoption in future, not only Bitcoin ETFs so don't over estimate importance of Bitcoin ETFs.

But when ETFs finally do start getting approved, probably in 4-5 years, yes it will certainly drive accumulation of Bitcoin.

Not all Bitcoin ETFs will survive with time and you must think about them in two ways, positively (many people think so) and negatively (less people think of it). Negatively, not all Bitcoin EFTs will be managed safely and we will have drama, collapse, fiasco like FTX exchange.

Risk of deaths for Bitcoin ETFs. Like CBOE Bitcoin Futures died: https://www.investing.com/crypto/bitcoin/cboe-bitcoin-futures-historical-data

In late 2017 (17 December 2017), Bitcoin market has first two Bitcoin Futures: CME and CBOE and only CME survives till today. See CBOE Bitcoin Futures Historical data

Bitcoin CME Futures.

The launch of the CME bitcoin futures contract comes a week after the first bitcoin futures launched on an established exchange, the CBOE Futures Exchange.

[boyptc]

With renewed interest in bitcoin ETFs, we see a growing flow of institutional and retail investors into the cryptocurrency market.

I am not even sure why they seem to be in a pattern that one after another. Didn't they talk about this and planned this all along before the bull run comes?

But one thing for sure is that they're going to be one of the reasons to trigger the demand and show the signs that we're near to the bull run.

Do you think the race to accumulate bitcoin will begin

Yes.

and what consequences it may have for the price and stability of this cryptocurrency? 

Law of supply and demand. The more demand coming from these institutions, the higher the price that it will drive.

[bussybuddy]

If btc does not become a recognized or widely accepted means of payment, it may find it difficult to maintain its value, due to the growth of the cryptocurrency market and the interest of the public. individuals and organizations towards cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin becoming a popular means of payment in the future is not too far away. Btc accumulation has been going on for quite some time and has been done by many large institutions and investors. Btc accumulation depends not only on volume but also on the market and current trade war situation. So the accumulative race is not about to happen, it's been going on for quite some time. With the renewed interest in bitcoin ETFs, the influx of institutional and retail investors into the crypto market is sure to increase the price and bring stability to the price of Bitcoin, which is also possible some short-term fluctuations when there is a sudden increase in capital inflows into the market.

[LoyceV]

I can think of a reason: an ETF would allow me to save Bitcoin for retirement with tax benefits.

The idea is not good at start. Bitcoin and cryptocurrency give us control on our coins and tokens with private keys

I can (obviously) keep my own private keys, but that doesn't get me the tax benefits. Short version: where I live, if you jump through the right hoops to save for your retirement, it's tax deductable. That means you get up to ~50% back from taxes. By the time you retire, your pension income is taxed, but the assumption is you'll pay a lower percentage by then.
The big savings are in the reduced wealth tax: we pay ~2% each year on investments. If you still have a few decades to go before you retire, you lose about half your money to taxes. You can prevent that if you jump through the right tax hoops.

People who want to use Bitcoin ETFs and other cryptocurrency ETFs will not actually own any coin or token, and if those companies do shady things, those people will gain nothing in their hands eventually. Not only tax but also with a bigger risk, losing all their money to ETFs.

The same applies to any stock market: people are totally used to paying a broker to keep their shares, and the stock market is a lot bigger than Bitcoin. It's a good reason to diversify though, so at least you won't lose everything in case one of them loses everything.

[cryptoaddictchie]

With renewed interest in bitcoin ETFs, we see a growing flow of institutional and retail investors into the cryptocurrency market. Do you think the race to accumulate bitcoin will begin, and what consequences it may have for the price and stability of this cryptocurrency? 

I guess many are overhype with the bitcoin etf applications. Of course everyone wanted to accumuate as much as possible since the price could gone up to 100k and more. Is this possible? Answer is big yes. Its not an exaggeration since its ATH is likr 60k plus before. With the institution help and more retailers interest bitcoin would definitely be a hit more.

[tranthidung]

I can (obviously) keep my own private keys, but that doesn't get me the tax benefits.

If you invest in Bitcoin, own your private keys, you will only have to pay tax if you sell your bitcoin with profit (higher value than your entry price). If you hold it, no tax or am I wrong?

About Bitcoin ETFs, are they tax free? I did not research about that but I guess no tax free.

Application. I am not an expert in accounting and did not read all the application, but looks like the tax has a chance to be 21%, lower than 30%. Is it what you implied?

If it were treated as a corporation, the Trust would be subject to entity-level U.S. federal income tax (currently at the rate of 21%), plus possible state and/or local taxes, on its net taxable income, and certain distributions made by the Trust to Shareholders would be treated as taxable dividends to the extent of the Trust’s current and accumulated earnings and profits. Any such dividend distributed to a beneficial owner of Shares that is a non-U.S. person for U.S. federal income tax purposes generally would be subject to U.S. federal withholding tax at a rate of 30% (or such lower rate as provided in an applicable tax treaty).

The same applies to any stock market: people are totally used to paying a broker to keep their shares, and the stock market is a lot bigger than Bitcoin. It's a good reason to diversify though, so at least you won't lose everything in case one of them loses everything.

Surely is a thing to do to keep our capital safe with capital diversification. In stock market, cryptocurrency market, ETFs or centralized exchanges (if we store our capital in centralized exchange accounts, not recommended of course). Even with non custodial wallets, diversify capital to different wallet softwares and different wallets are better.

[adaseb]

The SEC in my opinion is very unpredictable. Especially when It comes to crypto.

They sued Ripple
They let Coinbase on the stock market
They let Ftx get away with everything
They sued binance, coinbase and kraken
They rejected all the spot Bitcoin etfs but allowed an 2x leverage etf to launch.

So who knows what the outcome will be with this blackrock etf. Everyone will think it will get rejected but in the end it might actually be approved.

[LoyceV]

If you invest in Bitcoin, own your private keys, you will only have to pay tax if you sell your bitcoin with profit (higher value than your entry price). If you hold it, no tax or am I wrong?

It varies per country. Here, capital gains are tax free, but we pay an annual wealth tax instead.

I am not an expert in accounting and did not read all the application, but looks like the tax has a chance to be 21%, lower than 30%. Is it what you implied?

Here, we can only dream about 30% tax, let alone 21%!

[stompix]

With renewed interest in bitcoin ETFs,

I doubt you can find a month in the last 5 years when there weren't at least 10 articles about an ETF.
It's the same reheated pretzel all over again, people thinking a trillion of $ will be used to buy BTC, the price will spike up and they can finally make som profits after buying in the last FOMO. What's more tragic and comic on top of that is that a ton of them don't even know how this ETF will work but it smells of money so it must be good!

The SEC in my opinion is very unpredictable. Especially when It comes to crypto.

They let Coinbase on the stock market
They let Ftx get away with everything
They sued binance, coinbase and kraken

So? They've let Tesla also yet they've sued Tesla a hundred times, Intel, Dell, and Amazon in securities law violations what's the problem?
Once you get on the stock exchange you're getting a blank check or something?

The funny thing is when the SEC proposed that Binance.us would follow rules that would prevent another FTX everyone was screaming about the evil gubbermint,  when FTX Japan returned all the funds since the regulations in Japan worked everyone forgot that Binance fled Japan exactly because of those as they didn't want to comply with them!

[GreatArkansas]

(.....)
Do you think the race to accumulate bitcoin will begin, and what consequences it may have for the price and stability of this cryptocurrency? 

I am still thinking if what will happen in Bitcoin once Bitcoin ETF will be approved, it will become just like Gold ETF when it was started? Because if yes, for sure a lot of people will do FOMO and it will just drive the price of Bitcoin to a crazy high, most people will use gold as the basis for Bitcoin being approved on ETF.
ETF is new thing and more serious because, it's institution, more money is already involved and more people will be exposed to Bitcoin via Bitcoin ETF.