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Author Topic: Who creates the jobs?  (Read 4618 times)
JA37
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December 14, 2011, 02:03:48 PM
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http://www.businessinsider.com/rich-people-do-not-create-jobs-2011-12

Apparently not rich people, according to the article.

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chickenado
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December 14, 2011, 05:09:50 PM
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http://www.businessinsider.com/rich-people-do-not-create-jobs-2011-12

Apparently not rich people, according to the article.

Ultimately, it is always YOU who creates your job.

If you can think of ways to be valuable to rich people, they will gladly employ you.
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December 14, 2011, 05:18:23 PM
 #3

You could basically redux the entire article to this one statement:

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What creates the jobs, Hanauer astutely observes, is a healthy economic ecosystem surrounding the company, which starts with the company's customers.

Rich people make businesses but those businesses must provide goods and/or services. The economic health of the nation creates much of the demand and that demand drives prices which drives jobs. To imagine job creation as independent of the economy is foolish and to imagine the economy as a top-down hierarchy rather than a tangled hierarchy is also foolish. Those insinuating that "the rich create the jobs" are grossly oversimplifying a system which has proven extraordinarily difficult to simplify.

libertytrader
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December 15, 2011, 04:00:15 AM
 #4

Rich people invest, and investment creates jobs. Employees need to be worth the capital to be hired, but ultimately the investment creates the jobs ergo rich create jobs.

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bb113
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December 15, 2011, 05:53:08 AM
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Rich dude couldn't get at all that resource buried underneath the ground by himself. A group of "workers" could organize and do it without him though.
boonies4u
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December 15, 2011, 06:28:51 AM
 #6

In the US consumerism creates jobs, which is really dependent on companies having enough money to tell you what you want.

In America, ad space being available is a bad sign.
JA37
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December 15, 2011, 07:13:18 AM
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Rich people invest, and investment creates jobs. Employees need to be worth the capital to be hired, but ultimately the investment creates the jobs ergo rich create jobs.
You couldn't be bothered to read the article could you?

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December 15, 2011, 03:06:40 PM
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Rich people invest, and investment creates jobs. Employees need to be worth the capital to be hired, but ultimately the investment creates the jobs ergo rich create jobs.
You couldn't be bothered to read the article could you?

I did.

Yet another non-economist spewing out ignorant opinions on macroeconomics, based on nothing but his personal microeconomic experience and anecdotal evidence.

Then the author going, "oooh listen to that guy, what he is saying must be true, I mean he is RICH after all".

The arguments presented are so crude and simplistic that even Krugman could point out flaws in them.

In fairness, the article is right about one thing: The indiscriminate spending it advocates would create jobs of SOME sort.  But if the author had even a minimum of economic literacy he would know that indiscriminate job creation is not the POINT.  

The point, and the big challenge of economic policy,  is the creation of useful, productive jobs.
JA37
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December 15, 2011, 03:31:41 PM
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I did.

Yet another non-economist spewing out ignorant opinions on macroeconomics, based on nothing but his personal microeconomic experience and anecdotal evidence.

Then the author going, "oooh listen to that guy, what he is saying must be true, I mean he is RICH after all".

The arguments presented are so crude and simplistic that even Krugman could point out flaws in them.

In fairness, the article is right about one thing: The indiscriminate spending it advocates would create jobs of SOME sort.  But if the author had even a minimum of economic literacy he would know that indiscriminate job creation is not the POINT.  

The point, and the big challenge of economic policy,  is the creation of useful, productive jobs.

Speaking of crude and simplistic arguments, how do you like "Rich people invest, and investment creates jobs."?

What is a useful, productive job then? If the jobs created by catering to the needs and wants of the people who happen to have extra cash to spend, as the example in the article, isn't good enough, then what is?

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steelhouse
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December 18, 2011, 10:40:08 PM
 #10

The error in the article is taxes have gone up.  Federal, State, and local taxes now take up 42% of GDP.  Before 1929 it was never higher than 5%.  This forced factories to move overseas, thus the jobs are created there, why we have high permanent unemployment.

The solution end minimum wage and all business taxes.

BTW, Obama with the payroll tax cut, just gave everyone a $1000 pay cut.  But, it should help business profits and thus the economy.
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December 18, 2011, 10:58:07 PM
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Rich people invest, and investment creates jobs. Employees need to be worth the capital to be hired, but ultimately the investment creates the jobs ergo rich create jobs.
This is mistaking the effect with the cause. The markets create jobs, and investment realizes them. Without a favorable market, the investment would not happen in the first place.
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December 18, 2011, 11:19:33 PM
 #12

Rich people invest, and investment creates jobs. Employees need to be worth the capital to be hired, but ultimately the investment creates the jobs ergo rich create jobs.
This is mistaking the effect with the cause. The markets create jobs, and investment realizes them. Without a favorable market, the investment would not happen in the first place.

No, a company will not expand unless there are profits.  Suppose someone has a fence that needs painting, but the owner needs money to paint the fence.   The government says tax the people with money and give it to poor people so they can hire someone to paint the fence.  The capitalists says let the owner paint his own fence and buy his own paint.
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December 19, 2011, 07:57:43 AM
 #13

Everyone creates the jobs, we're creating jobs for Microsoft and the people around the entire www.


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The Script
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December 22, 2011, 08:40:44 AM
 #14

Good food for thought.  I'm not sure I agree with what I understood to be the ultimate point of the article (that we need to tax the rich more) but it does seem to be true that if there is no demand it doesn't matter how many companies you start up, they won't survive.  It seems that one group of people likes to focus all on the supply (rich people create businesses and grow the economy) and the other group of people focus all on the demand (tax the rich and give money to poor people so they can spend it to create jobs).  It is true that without capital accumulation we cannot expand businesses, create new ones and grow the economy, but people do need to have money to spend.  Supply and demand are two sides to the same coin.  I'll have to think about this more and do some more reading of economic texts to see if I can find a solution that satisfies me.
P4man
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December 22, 2011, 10:22:59 AM
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The error in the article is taxes have gone up.  Federal, State, and local taxes now take up 42% of GDP.  Before 1929 it was never higher than 5%.  

And things were so much better in 1929.

Quote
This forced factories to move overseas, thus the jobs are created there, why we have high permanent unemployment. The solution end minimum wage and all business taxes.

Quite the opposite. Corporate taxes have been going down since WW2 while labor tax has been rising. The result is the rich got richer but the economy is in shambles because consumers have no spending power.






bb113
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December 22, 2011, 06:12:31 PM
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Interesting charts P4man. Can you give us the source so we can see what the numbers mean?
NghtRppr
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December 23, 2011, 12:08:37 PM
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Apparently not rich people, according to the article.

Alright, let's see the argument.

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rich people do not create jobs, even if they found and build companies that eventually employ thousands of people

These companies that employ thousands of people aren't creating jobs? Those jobs would exist without those companies? I think not. Nice try.
JA37
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December 23, 2011, 12:28:12 PM
 #18

Apparently not rich people, according to the article.

Alright, let's see the argument.

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rich people do not create jobs, even if they found and build companies that eventually employ thousands of people

These companies that employ thousands of people aren't creating jobs? Those jobs would exist without those companies? I think not. Nice try.

Keep reading. You almost made it to the interesting part.

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NghtRppr
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December 23, 2011, 12:36:03 PM
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Apparently not rich people, according to the article.

Alright, let's see the argument.

Quote
rich people do not create jobs, even if they found and build companies that eventually employ thousands of people

These companies that employ thousands of people aren't creating jobs? Those jobs would exist without those companies? I think not. Nice try.

Keep reading. You almost made it to the interesting part.

I'm glad you admit the article isn't entirely interesting but I did read it and the followup. It boils down to the claim that without customers, there would be no jobs. Which is true. But wait, without the sun, there would be no jobs either. Therefore the sun actually creates the jobs. All hail Apollo, the sun god!
P4man
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December 23, 2011, 01:05:02 PM
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I'm glad you admit the article isn't entirely interesting but I did read it and the followup. It boils down to the claim that without customers, there would be no jobs. Which is true. But wait, without the sun, there would be no jobs either. Therefore the sun actually creates the jobs. All hail Apollo, the sun god!

We already have a sun, so thats not relevant. We already have companies making just about everything that people desire and that money can buy. What we dont have is customer demand for their products because the customers are broke. Its not rocket science.

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