Not your key not your wallet

[Faisal2202]

If you have the keys and the seed phrase, the wallet and the coins are yours, but do not use trust wallet and other closed source wallets even if they give you your keys, that's because they are closed source and you have to trust them without being able to verify their code or anything about the wallet.

I am not a programmer not a blockchain developer then how can I trust Electrum if I can not even understand the code. I never tried Electrum yet and I know that I lack enthusiasm in trying new things but it is my personal thing so I am trying to manage it.

But, how can a non-programmer can trust the code is alternation free of Electrum wallet? Let's say you will suggest to me some other people (they most likely be programmers) so that I could read their reviews about Electrum but in the end, I am also trusting those people whom I never met who are also human. In the end, only one way remains there if we are not ready to put our trust in any other person in the crypto, which is to learn programming ourselves maybe to some extent that we could understand that the code does not contain anything harmful but I do know that that's not an easy task to do. (I know how I might be sounding here).

But most of the people didn't give a thought to checking the wallet which they use by thinking it is open source so there must be someone tracking the codes in here. Do you have any recommendations to verify it?

[Bushdark]

Any wallet we are using and we don't have access to the secret phrases then we should know that we are taking a very big risk and quick decision need to be taken. There are people that had lost a lot for money on exchanges because they don't have access to the secret phrase to lock there funds so that external hackers will not have access to it. We need to have access to our wallet secret phrase and keep it in a safe place to prevent our account from been locked, or blocked. If we keep saving our funds on exchanges then we are making a big mistake that could make us lose our funds.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

Yeah, I get it. Despite the fact that it's been over two to three years now since I used my Coinbase account, I did receive that mail as well. No active crypto users that don't have the habit of always checking their mail, and Coinbase has passed on the information across all their customers, any user that doesn't frequently visit their email would have their self-blame if they still had their asset on that CEX. Although I don't feel much concern about users of this forum because it has always been said times without number for every cryptocurrency user to avoid storing their coins on the centralized exchange.

[m2017]

Although OP didn't say anything new, telling his case, but a reminder that your funds, being on the account of centralized services, no longer actually belong to you and you have practically lost control over them, will never be superfluous. Sometimes, people don't know about "not your keys- not your coins" is, or they forget about it.

Changing conditions is already in the order of things and for sure, these changes will be against your interests. This must be taken into account and be prepared. Better yet, avoid centralized services like coinbase unless absolutely necessary.

[Despairo]

But most of the people didn't give a thought to checking the wallet which they use by thinking it is open source so there must be someone tracking the codes in here. Do you have any recommendations to verify it?

It's true not all Bitcoin holders are programmers, but there have been many discussions about the source in Electrum and no one find there's a harmful code that would steal your coins. But it's too naive for you to trust one person statement and claim if not running full node your wallet is not belong to yours, that guy already put a disclaimer.

And you brought the Atomic wallet case here, many users already pointed out to not use Atomic wallet since few years ago. Comparing Electrum and Atomic wallet isn't apple to apple, you need to compare Eletcrum with other open source, non custodial and SPV wallet like Bluewallet.

[hosseinimr93]

I am not a programmer not a blockchain developer then how can I trust Electrum if I can not even understand the code.

You can't trust electrum, because you can't read the code yourself. I understand you, but what change does it make if the wallet is not SPV and you run your own full node?
Can you read bitcoin core's code and know how the keys are generated? How can you be sure that there is no vulnerability in bitcoin core?

We trust bitcoin core, because it's open source and the code has been reviewed by many people.

[Taskford]

Coinbase sent this to my email to inform me that I have till September 25th before my account is disabled and I should withdraw my funds before then but the fact is that I have not completed my KYC and so I won't be able to withdraw my funds there. Good thing what I have there doesn't really worth anything. Even if I want to do kyc I still can't because getting my documents would be really tasking for me.
This is among the reason we should be cautious of Centralise exchange because they can choose to change their terms and conditions which may be unfavourable to us.
Ps : I already have this account before I joined this Forum

Coinbase sent this email to inactive accounts so don't get surprised about this since this is normally happen to any wallets if you leave it without having any transaction happened for years.

 But if you think there's misconception happen as you are actively using coinbase maybe you need to reach their support to have a clarification to the email they sent to you and also so that they can verify that you are still using their service. If you have doubts and doesn't trust their platform anymore because if this reason better leave it and find an alternative that can fits you well.

[Darker45]

Not your keys, not your wallet, not your coins.

In fairness to Coinbase, you're given enough time to withdraw your coins. That's almost 90 days. But I wonder what the platform refers to when it says "accounts that no longer meet our updated standards." What standards in particular? Why does it have to be disabled? Is it not possible to update the account to meet such updated standards?

Are you aware of what this refers to? Or are you also confused about what it means?

I'm asking this because centralized exchanges have this penchant to be unclear or confusing in their communication that they leave their users hanging. For example, they inform a user that his/her account is locked because they detected suspicious activities. Or they suddenly require you to submit or resubmit KYC to prove that you're the owner because they observe something unusual in your account.

[cheezcarls]

When I receive such emails like this, I must be very careful even if it is from the official account of such platform like the Coinbase. To verify, I usually go to their official site and reach out to their customer service or in their official socials to see if the email is legit or not.

But yes in centralized wallets, we do not have the full custody of the assets that we are holding there. They can freeze or hold your assets there for certain reasons rather than just having the full control of your hard earned money.

Much better you store them in a hardware wallet if you can afford. Non custodial wallets like Metamask and Trust Wallet can do but they are hot wallets in which they’re created online and the hackers can simply find ways to siphon your funds if you are not careful.

[Faisal2202]

It's true not all Bitcoin holders are programmers, but there have been many discussions about the source in Electrum and no one find there's a harmful code that would steal your coins. But it's too naive for you to trust one person statement and claim if not running full node your wallet is not belong to yours, that guy already put a disclaimer.

Dear Despair, that's what I said that not everyone is a programmer, and if some are programmers they did not give thought to auditing the code because they are trusting others just like you mentioned that warnings for atomic wallets are already shared but still people are using it just like trust wallet, you gave me warning not to use it because it is the close source and we should avoid to use it but unfortunately, I am using it for a small transaction. And i didn't mean to compare Atomic Wallet with Electrum because i do know it has the difference between Earth and Sky. But my intentions were to share the ideology that no one really checks the code. But i do understand the point you trying to teach me here and thanks for that and it would be a great help if you could refer me to the discussion that I have bolded in your reply.

You can't trust electrum, because you can't read the code yourself. I understand you, but what change does it make if the wallet is not SPV and you run your own full node?
Can you read bitcoin core's code and know how the keys are generated? How can you be sure that there is no vulnerability in bitcoin core?

We trust bitcoin core because it's open source and the code has been reviewed by many people.

OK dear hosseinimr93, I get it, no doubt it is better to use open-source wallets instead of closed ones, and even if we do not know the programming we could at least read the reviews of others about Electrum's code. Idk as I mentioned before I never used it. Why? because I do not have that much money and never give a thought about deep security because i have less money so I give less importance to security but I think to keep up to date I have to test it out at once. But back in time when I was referred to use it but after checking the number of downloads of Electrum are very low I thought this app must be a new one or do not have that much traffic and if traffic is low it means it has lesser features and securities but unfortunately, I have less knowledge at that time but still, I am learning and i do know the difference of close source and open source wallets from like 1 year maybe but still do not give any that much importance because I still do not have that much money, (hehe).

[Coyster]

But i do understand the point you trying to teach me here and thanks for that and it would be a great help if you could refer me to the discussion that I have bolded in your reply.

This is one of the good discussions about how to verify Eletrum: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5240594.0

Idk as I mentioned before I never used it. Why? because I do not have that much money and never give a thought about deep security because i have less money so I give less importance to security but I think to keep up to date I have to test it out at once.

Electrum is not a hardware wallet that you have to buy with money, it is a software wallet that you can use by just downloading it, whether you have money or not, you have to take your security seriously. Use Electrum as a hot wallet if you think your funds are so small, but if it isn't small, use Electrum for offline storage in an airgapped computer.

But back in time when I was referred to use it but after checking the number of downloads of Electrum are very low I thought this app must be a new one or do not have that much traffic and if traffic is low it means it has lesser features and securities but unfortunately,

I don't know where you checked for the number of downloads, but on Google Playstore it has 500k+ downloads, but it ordinarily should be 0, those 500k+ people downloaded it in the wrong way, the only place to download Electrum safely should from their official website.

[Potato Chips]

Question!

Did you get a similar email couple of months ago? because around that time coinbase actually sent account closure notices to loads of people due to "not meeting their updated standards" however some accounts were limited to send-only for off-boarding. I suspect it was because they had funds on their account hence I'm wondering if this could be an extension of that where send-only accounts finally gets disabled.

Ofc, there's also a good chance the case I mentioned does not apply to you. According from your post, the funds locked ain't worth anything and during that time, people who received the same closure notice but had dust-to-none on their CB wallet had their account disabled right away.

[Faisal2202]

This is one of the good discussions about how to verify Eletrum: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5240594.0

thanks for the help as I can also find it myself but the one you mentioned must be good one which will save my time and thanks for that.

Electrum is not a hardware wallet that you have to buy with money, it is a software wallet that you can use by just downloading it, whether you have money or not, you have to take your security seriously. Use Electrum as a hot wallet if you think your funds are so small, but if it isn't small, use Electrum for offline storage in an airgapped computer.

Noo! I didn't meant to say that I have no money so I could not use Electrum, I said I have less money so I do not give that much importance to security features of Electrum wallet. And I do know electron has Software wallet, I just meant to say why I should bother more while I have not that much money which needs that much security. 

I don't know where you checked for the number of downloads, but on Google Play Store it has 500k+ downloads, but it ordinarily should be 0, those 500k+ people downloaded it in the wrong way, the only place to download Electrum safely should from their official website.

I also checked on Googleplaystore and I was also referring to these 500k download which are lower, just take an example and think of me as newbie (which I was at that time) if I had to select from different option in download wallet or any other app I always selects the one having more download because I have this mentality that more download means more security and longevity of the app.

[Ojima-ojo]

Moral of the story: these types of centralized exchanges at least try their full to save the money of customers so they even mail you. I am not in favour of Cexs but only of some factors.g

Right because even in the mentioned trust wallet I am aware that some of the coins there can still be frozen by the authority if the need be,  and if you own private keys and wallet address,  you are still a step away from total freedom and control but at least for as far as you operate within the limit you will be secure enough to do normal transactions and also decentralized but not free because the authority can still seize the assets.


We can not underestimate the role exchange plays in our daily life most especially in the e-commerce sectors where people trade one commodity to the other in the form of coins and other NFTs,  exchange plays a vital role that we can not ignore its importance.

[ancafe]

Even if I want to do kyc I still can't because getting my documents would be really tasking for me.
This is among the reason we should be cautious of Centralise exchange because they can choose to change their terms and conditions which may be unfavourable to us.
Ps : I already have this account before I joined this Forum

As a day trader, you are definitely required to do KYC every time you deposit assets on a centralized exchange and most of us already know that it is very risky to use a centralized exchange to store assets there. Still quite lucky when exchanges try to warn you to withdraw assets as not all exchanges notify in advance. If you think KYC will create a crime then don't do it and choose another source of wallet which is much safer to store your assets and if you are one of the day traders who are actively trading then scale your assets every time you make a profit and keep some of the assets you have on a centralized exchange for trading needs only.

It is very inconvenient to send back and forth the assets we have each time we want to trade from a more secure wallet to an exchange and preferably when your desired trade target amount has been reached, send it to a much more secure wallet. The rest can be kept on the exchange for further trading needs. But it must be remembered, the exchange is not a safe place to store assets, but a place for short-term trading as an effort we can make to facilitate trading.

[BD Crypto]

This is among the reason we should be cautious of Centralise exchange because they can choose to change their terms and conditions which may be unfavourable to us.

Not only Coinbase but also any centralized exchange wallets and every custodial wallets should be avoided for the best security of users funds. Then what should we do ?
We have only way to use non custodial open source wallets like Electrum, Mycelium, Bitpay and Alpha Wallet.

Then where to do trading? Okay you may choose centralized exchanges but you should keep your assets how much you can afford to lose to a exchange wallet or a custodial wallet. You also should choose a popular and trusted exchange but not a shadow exchange. It's even better to withdraw funds after successful trading. We should not store a huge funds to any custodial wallet or a exchange wallet.

[Outhue]

Your fund remain secured with us, that is a big fat lie.

That's so funny, it was what how I trusted my Bitcoin and other to free wallet some years back and I learned the hard way, this is so funny, I am not surprised that people still believe in such a statement, whenever I read such online I always laugh.

You know what's best for yourself, entrusting money to even your own family and friends brings forth betrays and you entrusting your assets in the hands of people who you've never even meet for once is the craziest of all, if FTX hasn't changed the way people look and judge centralized exchanges then people will never wake up.

[mvdheuvel1983]

Your keys, your bitcoin. Noy your keys, not your bitcoin. I think that at this point, the only people who would not get this are those who are new to cryptocurrency. However, there are still oldies who do not adhere to this simple rule because they are inherently lazy even when it comes to their own accumulated wealth. You just can't expect them to adopt bitcoin and expect them to take on the responsibility of securing their personal wealth by themselves on a cold paper wallet and storing that wallet somewhere. They prefer the easy and risky way of letting centralized exchanges do it for them.

[Broadanbig]

Basically, the not your keys not your coin movement should be majorly newbies to be aware of. Because they are just coming into the system and are prone to scammers and in that case, they would need the knowledge to help them stand tall hence the slogan was invented and so far the awareness has been very strong and not only are the newbies aware but have since taken the steps too to making it effective in their own activities too.

[Lida93]

This is one of the disadvantage of using a centralized exchange to store your coins,they can come up one day and change their ToS and your funds will become trapped in their exchange.

From all indications it's undeniable that OP has an idea that KYC is part of the necessary requirements in completing is registration with said Cex. There are simple two ways to this, if you're someone that's not comfortable with handing out your data through KYC to any exchange then stay away from centralized exchanges and make use of those DEx that are known for their NO KYC requirements from their customers like AgoraDesk.com