Another crap Amazon wallet find: Material Bitcoin

[The Sceptical Chymist]

HW wallets have kind of fascinated me since I first learned of them, and I often check Amazon to see what new products are coming to market--for lack of a better place to browse such information; if anyone has a better idea, I'm all ears.  Anyway, I stumbled across this piece of garbage today (hopefully the image shows up, as it's my first time using talkimg.com):



This looks to me to be a less useful variation of a Ballet wallet, with just one BTC address and private key.

The kicker is this statement:

VERY SAFE: Your bitcoins are kept disconnected from any network, without electricity, so they are impossible to hack. In addition, we do not store any private keys, nor do we have any way of accessing them.

Well, ya fuckin' generated the private keys for all the wallets you made yourself, so sure you won't be able to access them after you've distributed them to resellers, but just like Ballet wallets you have to trust that you didn't make a master list....and Jesus, if you can't even trust Ledger anymore, why in the world would anyone trust Material Bitcoin?  Unless I've missed it, they're an unknown manufacturer with no reputation.  

Blows my mind.  But it doesn't look like many people have bought this wallet so far, as there aren't many reviews and the ones that are there are probably shills.  And look at how much they're asking for this piece of shit!

[1714226783]

1714226783

[logfiles]

I had to look for their website (materialbitcoin.com)and have a very good laugh

The slogan! "Buy bitcoin with the safest wallet in the world"

Buy now your MATERIAL BITCOIN wallet and, as soon as you receive it, we will put bitcoin* in it.

Just like that 

Private Key

Hidden by an adhesive metallic security strip.

(This is the equivalent of your PIN code.)

Withdraw bitcoin from your wallet

Yep, they guarantee you no one saw that private key hidden behind the adhesive security strip

Because;

Not even our engineers are able to see it. A metallic security strip and a heat-sealed aluminium package ensure the wallet's privacy.

Only you can access it.
Robotic process

Material Bitcoin's manufacturing process is completely automated, and takes place in a guarded room with restricted access.

[Z-tight]

Is this even a hardware wallet? It is a cold wallet with only a BTC address and a private key engraved on a steel. To withdraw BTC from this wallet one will still have to use a wallet software like BlueWallet or Electrum to import the private key, this is the only way to spend from this wallet because it does not have any mobile software of its own.

I don't even see any advantage of using this cold storage that we are not sure how the private keys is generated and you still have to use Electrum or BlueWallet to withdraw from it, instead of anybody using this wallet, they can easily use Electrum that's recommended to create their own air-gapped wallet that will never be connected to the internet, or just buy a good hardware wallet like Passport.

[Pmalek]

This is the equivalent of a paper wallet but on a steel card.
I have just had a look at their website, and there are some goodies there.

They claim they use military-grade security and that they have developed a wallet (it's not a wallet) that is immune to hackers.
After the card gets shipped to you, they will fund it with the amount you want.

I really love this part:

You don't need to rely on anything to use your Material Bitcoin Wallet.

You need to trust their unhackable method of adding a metallic security strip over the private key that absolutely no one can see. But hey, don't focus on that. Focus on Buy bitcoin with the safest wallet in the world.

Let's talk about how to withdraw your coins from the wallet. After you peel off the military-grade metallic security strip , you have to manually enter the private key into whatever wallet you are using character by character.

Check out their tutorial on how to do it on a phone where they suggest installing a different mobile wallet:

Take off the metallic strip covering your Material Bitcoin’s private key and copy all the digits into the notepad app on your mobile phone.
Copy and paste it into the Blue Wallet app by clicking on the “Paste” button to import your Material Bitcoin’s address.
Erase the first 6 digits (p2wpkh:) and click on the “Import” button to link the Blue Wallet app to your wallet.

That's how the military does it btw. 

https://materialbitcoin.com/en/
https://materialbitcoin.com/en/blog/how-to-send-bitcoin-from-your-wallet/

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Robotic process

Yeah, uh huh, sure, whatever you say Material Bitcoin.  I'd like to see said robotic process, your engineers, the guarded room, and what passes for restricted access in their neck of the woods.  Granted, I have not yet visited their website (but I'm a-gonna) and don't know if any of that stuff is shown or even described in detail (doubt it), but this is just another "trust us" wallet.  

There are so many of those on the market it's mind-boggling--but this is why I think some of these are going to be collectibles, for the sheer fact that many of them won't exist in a year or two.  They're going to be part of crypto history, albeit a sour note in said history.

Is this even a hardware wallet?

Nah, not one that has actual electronics in it as we typically think of HW wallets as having, but this is the only section a thread like this fits in.  There's not a child board for...whatever this piece of metal with a peel away sticker is classified as.

And sure, you do have to use a SW wallet like Electrum (or I guess bitcoin core would work as well) if you're ever going to spend coins that you've funded the address with.  It sort of reminds me of the Satochip that has to be plugged into its proprietary card reader and used with an outdated version of Electrum.  If you were a penny-pincher, you'd probably just skip all this shit entirely and just use Electrum without all these fancy cards.  Lol.

[tabas]

It's like a printed wallet address with the actual address listed there and the qr code. Whoever is the manufacturer of this is fooling its customers.  With all of those claims and stuff, I worry that there will still be some people that will buy this piece of steel at its expensive rate.

I had to look for their website (materialbitcoin.com)and have a very good laugh

The slogan! "Buy bitcoin with the safest wallet in the world"

Buy now your MATERIAL BITCOIN wallet and, as soon as you receive it, we will put bitcoin* in it.

Just like that 

It really says that they're the safest, LOL and with that promotional video playing on the background. It's being put on a safe together with gold. Whoever owns a Ledger wallet has also that piece of paper where you can write the private keys behind, it's not so different on this one but it's just made of steel. So if someone who owns this and misplace it, well, goodbye funds if the PK is written at the back of this steel card.

[Pmalek]

Another thing that I noticed is that they have 3 different types of steel plates. Apparently, the Standard and Customized plates have a sticker on the back that protects the private keys. the 3rd one, DIY, allows users to engrave 12-word seed phrases.

The DIY is the only steel plate that makes sense because you can use it as a metal backup for one of your wallets. And that plate is the cheapest at $59. The other two where you have to use the private keys they generated cost $89 and $199, and include bullshit features like your real name written on the top, etc.

But there is no need to worry because the company offers a

100-year guarantee.

https://materialbitcoin.com/en/

[m2017]

Well, what to say about Material Bitcoin? Nice piece of stainless steel for $100. And also, an ideal business model designed to swindle simpletons.

Is it possible to complain about the seller on Amazon or leave negative reviews (low rating) to protect unknowing buyers from a fatal mistake? Although, in fact, they have nothing to blame, so far.

No one has the guts extra money to buy this plate and top up their wallet to see what happens after that?

[stompix]

Is this even a hardware wallet?

It's more like a business card with a QR you can get for 5$. 
And has 1 cent security features.

There are no logs, no databases, no temporary files, no nothing at all.
The private key exists only on the steel plate.
Not even our engineers can see the private key: It is calculated, engraved, erased from memory, hidden with a metallic vinyl and enveloped in an watertight aluminum heat seal. Many layers ensure the privacy of your plate.

When you go overboard with this kind of description it's a clear sign nothing like that is happening and they are taking like 100 backups of your keys before they ship it. Anyone else had a coldkey.eu moment while reading this?
Anyhow, this is quite funny, since nobody sees this, even if the process and security is genuine there is no guarantee the machine actually engraved that private key on the wallet or hasn't failed to stamp a few letters, which would be quite interesting... to find out after you loaded it! 

Also, they sell "BITCOIN PURCHASE SIGNALS"
https://materialbitcoin.com/en/product/bitcoin-purchase-signals/
Just $400 a year, lol.

[Yamane_Keto]

Almost all of this product was being sold by Yogg and some members in the Collectibles board. The only difference is that the wallet comes empty instead of charged. Yogg has stolen customer funds so don't trust anyone to generate the private key for you.

I chose these designs randomly, and there are many beautiful designs that you can find in the collectibles section, these cards represent paper wallets, not hardware wallets. you can Print the private key below.

The service offered by Material Bitcoin is a scam.

[hZti]

People say the perfect crime does not exist, but then there is this wallet  first you scam the people by selling them a little bit of engraved metal for 96 USD and later on you will go ahead and empty out the bitcoins they stored on there. There is basically not a more efficient way of scamming a person.

Sad thing is that there are probably a lot of people buying this stuff anyways.

[RickDeckard]

Apparently this company - based in Spain - started in 2019 and got their funding from Kickstarter[1] and "309 backers pledged €36,575 to help bring this project to life". In the comments[2] section of KS they keep referring that they have no way of knowing the private keys that are engraved and they also say that their private key (the one that supposedly "is generated by a state-of-the-art, open source, offline, cryptographic engine") is generated by Electrum. Even if they were the most honest company in the world, I wouldn't believe that there can't be a malicious actor, or even worse, that they do something manually during the process that could put in jeopardy the safety of their wallets.

They reassure their clients by saying that their "autonomous" process has been certified by Lambda Telematics[3] but I don't see quite well how this certification could have been issued. Perhaps Lambda Telematics wrote the code that their "robots" use to manufacture their cards? If so, what stops someone to hide a malicious entry in the numerous lines of code so that every private key is sent to some random address without anyone knowing?

What is even more weird - How come that with just ~40.000€ - they were able to build a production line (I suppose that there is one) that engraves the plates and packs them in a security bag with no Human intervention when 70% of the funding went into developing the product[1]?
[1]https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/materialbitcoin/material-bitcoin/description
[2]https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/materialbitcoin/material-bitcoin/comments
[3]https://lamtics.com/

[Cricktor]

Oh boy, there's no bullshit limit of things sold online. But a day with a big laugh is no wasted day. I have no words for such shit.

No producer staff needs to even try to see the private key engraving when the keys are very likely created deterministically. But of course the point is that newbies don't know much about such details and some will fall into such a trap. Some sellers really sold their soul to the devil.

[RickDeckard]

No producer staff needs to even try to see the private key engraving when the keys are very likely created deterministically. But of course the point is that newbies don't know much about such details and some will fall into such a trap. Some sellers really sold their soul to the devil.

From a collectibles perspective, I reckon that some bitcointalk users will probably appreciate having this item in their collections. Other than that I see no reason to prefer this kind of product vs. a similar alternative with a higher degree of privacy - such as making your seed phrases engraved in washers[1][2]. It is more easier to me controlling the environment where my seed phrases are created than just blindly trusting that some entity will take the same amount of measures.
[1]https://www.econoalchemist.com/post/backup
[2]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5389446.0

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Almost all of this product was being sold by Yogg and some members in the Collectibles board. The only difference is that the wallet comes empty instead of charged. Yogg has stolen customer funds so don't trust anyone to generate the private key for you.
<snip>

Ah, that was an example I was thinking of where someone did pull off a scam like the one that's possible with Material Bitcoin--I just couldn't remember the name of the member who did it.  AFAIK, Yogg was a fairly trusted member of the collectibles section too. 

These metal cards are aesthetically pleasing (to me at least) and have the appearance of being a convenient way to store bitcoin, but that's what makes them dangerous to people who might not have a clue about crypto security--and I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir with that statement, but perhaps someone will find this thread while researching the Material Bitcoin wallet prior to purchasing it and read it closely.

Hell, I'd buy one just as a collectible if it wasn't so goddamn overpriced.  Not even Ballet wallets are as pricey as $96 except for bundle packs or that 24k gold plated one they have.  I bet they set the price point so high because they only need to sell a few of them to recoup whatever it cost to make a batch--and I doubt they'll be making many more of these.

From a collectibles perspective, I reckon that some bitcointalk users will probably appreciate having this item in their collections.

Agree, as I said above.  And I also said that wallets like these will be a small but perhaps important part of bitcoin's history in years to come.  Or maybe just a footnote, who knows?

[RickDeckard]

~
Hell, I'd buy one just as a collectible if it wasn't so goddamn overpriced.  Not even Ballet wallets are as pricey as $96 except for bundle packs or that 24k gold plated one they have.  I bet they set the price point so high because they only need to sell a few of them to recoup whatever it cost to make a batch--and I doubt they'll be making many more of these.
~

This is something that I will try to follow more closely if I'm able to. I may be wrong but I don't see sustainability in the long term for the company, unless they massively market their product. I do reckon that the costs to produce the wallets may be low if they purchase and manufacture in big batches but that doesn't seem to be the case here (unless they are able to finance themselves again in the future to grab a bigger market share of their product).

I've been looking at their Telegram channel (it currently has 630 members) and I have to say that I've seen some information that is... incorrect. Here's an example:

Rough translation:

Do you know what would happen if the company that runs Twitter disappeared for any reason? The social network would also stop working and would vanish

That would also happen with Ledger and Trezor but, guess what, if Material Bitcoin (the company) disappeared, the wallet would still continue to work without any problem

I don't know what is worse - Misleading their clients into buying their products by making unreal comparisons or not fully understanding how their competitors (in this case Ledger and Trezor) hardware wallets work.

[dkbit98]

HW wallets have kind of fascinated me since I first learned of them, and I often check Amazon to see what new products are coming to market--for lack of a better place to browse such information; if anyone has a better idea, I'm all ears.  Anyway, I stumbled across this piece of garbage today (hopefully the image shows up, as it's my first time using talkimg.com):

This looks like Ballet wallet to me  and without checking I bet this product is coming from China (even if they are based in Spain).
Anyone can create a wallet-like product today and post it on Amazon and Ebay, but they won't have much customers.
I saw many weird hardware wallets and we are following all of them in our local board, it's a wild wild west space and I am going to add this one also

What is even more weird - How come that with just ~40.000€ - they were able to build a production line (I suppose that there is one) that engraves the plates and packs them in a security bag with no Human intervention when 70% of the funding went into developing the product[1]?

Magic? Many kickstarter projects never deliver even if they have good idea, but I don't think Material Bitcoin was ever any good  

[Cricktor]

Part of Bitcoin's DNA is that you shouldn't need to trust someone. This product forces you to put faith and trust that the produced and engraved private key is hidden from any eye ever, except yours. You can't verify this, period! What could possibly make any customer believe this could be the case, except lack of knowledge, ignorance and stupidity.

The private key has been processed by some digital production facility and there were likely enough points of leakage available. The blabla "everything is made safe" is just marketing bullshit. Such a steelwallet is wrong from the very first step.

[ABCbits]

Is this even a hardware wallet?

I would categorize it as backdoor-ed paper metal wallet. Although people who actually interested with the design/material should check this review written by Jameson Lopp[1].

Apparently this company - based in Spain - started in 2019 and got their funding from Kickstarter[1] and "309 backers pledged €36,575 to help bring this project to life".

I cannot believe 309 people funded this project when 70+ similar product[1] already exist.

What is even more weird - How come that with just ~40.000€ - they were able to build a production line (I suppose that there is one) that engraves the plates and packs them in a security bag with no Human intervention when 70% of the funding went into developing the product[1]?

Is it weird? There are many people and company offer service about bulk custom engraved metal.

[1] https://jlopp.github.io/metal-bitcoin-storage-reviews/.

[Yamane_Keto]

After checking their site and thinking they were worth a try, I found that they sell three products:

• STANDARD
• DIY
• CUSTOMIZED

DIY: is good as it comes blank, you can write your own seeds inside it and from Jameson Lopp tests https://jlopp.github.io/metal-bitcoin-storage-reviews/, this card is made of AISI 304L steel. It does not have many moving parts and therefore it is good, but I think that its defects are represented in the price, being visible where the word Crypto is engraved on it and the link to the site and therefore it is It's easy for a thief to identify these as crypto words (bad for your privacy.)

STANDARD: is what The Sceptical Chymist showed, and they print the public address according to what you want. The price goes up from $50 to $89, which is a high price just for matching the public address on 304L steel. I don't know why the price on Amazon is $96?

CUSTOMIZED: YOU SHOULD AVOID THEM ANYWAY The price is high, and nonsense your wallet is secure as they print your private key for you.

https://materialbitcoin.com/en/

I would prefer them if their DIY design was similar to this: