DISCUSSION-How hard is it to beat a sportsbook?

[quanth1919]

Hi guys,
I just want to start a discussion here regarding the topic how hard is it to beat sportsbook.
As a sucessfull bettor for over a decade, I want to state that nowadays it's much harder than in past decade. The whole market changed, majority of sportsbooks became "soft" with low limits and quick limiting of account.
Opening new accounts has neven been harder as KYC are harder than before+everyone lacks normal wallets for such work. In past we had Skrill and Neteller while now those are not an option.
For all of you who will write "crypto", its not an option at all. Firstly lot of good bookmakers don't accept crypto and all crypto bookmaker which I have stumbled upon by now have proven to be a scam. If they suspect even a little, without any proof, they will close account and you can go on court for them forever.

Adittional problem nowadays are cheap licenses from Curacao,Malta or Giblatar. Everyone can open a bookmaker, not pay a customer and face no consequences as their govering bodies almost never respond to complaints, let alone solve them.
Most of the bookmakers use same odds provider Betradar(Sportradar) or Betconstruct which creates another obstacle in profiting from betting. Same platform for odds means often identical odds and reactions to stakes so there is not many sites where you can do value betting anylonger.

When it comes to beating a sharp bookie like Pinnacle(which isn't even a sharp anymore), their early limits are ridicilously low and with Early bets you help them correct the lines and remove the value.

I have tried everything in betting world and for the first time in over 15 years I believe that it's time to change profession. I am still making really nice figures but with way more effort and dificulties than before.
Reason for this post is that I want to hear experiences from other bettors and maybe we can help each other with advices

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[Oshosondy]

Probably you do not like KYC gambling sites, but the more the regulations and the more gambling sites are known to the public, the more the regulators are targeting the gambling sites. So it is not the gambling sites fault.

I started to bet in 2014, on local fiat sites, but decided to open a foreign gambling in 2018. I have noticed their odds to be different but just little and similar to almost the same would be the conclusion. When I started to make use of some bookies that have ANN thread on this forum, I compared it with the foreign site casino I was using, the only difference was that the fiat gambling site is lite to load and having some better UI. But the odds are almost similar and the crypto casino are also good and having good UI too, with in-play matches added. The opportunity I have more is the withdrawal which is very fast than on Bet365 which its wire transfer takes days for me and the only option to withdraw for people in my country.

Gambling as been like it was for me in the past, unless that I can say that I was an addict and lost money very well in the past, unlike now. I do not concern much about KYC, what I am concerned about is not to give my personal documents to the wrong site that may use it for something else. Gambling is still fun, but still a problem for addicts. Gambling is still enjoyable just like it was before if you do it responsibly.

[quanth1919]

Well I am not talking about gambling for fun, when you do few hundred bucks and have fun. As the title says, I am talking about beating a sportsbooks. I am living of betting for long time and that's simply not possible with 1 account per bookmaker,especially lately. Everyone who says otherwise is a delusional.
Try hitting lets say low level tennis ITF. Lot of wrong odds there as lot of players don't even have ranking.
You can win maximum of few hundreds on such events and after you do some profits, you will get restricted to few bucks per bet.
Same is with lower basketball/football leagues.
Of course that major competitions are different story, but they are almost impossible to beat on the long run.

[Oshosondy]

You can not win more if you depend on gambling. Also have been some rich people that become broke while gambling can be one of the reasons.

Gambling should just be taken as fun and nothing more.

Even if you gambling and win, do not encourage others to do so because people are prone to lose while gambling than to win.

One thing I noticed about bookies is that you can see low odds, but if you are no more comfortable, try casinos. Casinos have greater odds, but we should be mindful of addiction or risking high amount of money because you can not win the house over a long time.

[quanth1919]

Gambling is not as same as betting.
When you gamble in casino, you have predetermined chances to win and house is always in advantage.
With betting it's different. There is plenty variables which affect odds and on long run you can beat the bookie.
If you know players from club from your city and you know they have been drinking all night before the match, you have the value of betting against them. Of course, it doesn't mean it will win, but bookmakers didn't have that information when created the odds and often won't have even closer to start so it's worth betting.
If you are on tennis tournament and see the player strugling with injury, you can make a bet against him  before he asks medical timeout and bookmakers adjust the odds. That's another example of getting the value bet and making profit on long run.
Even simpler, if there is friendly match and it's expected to be strongest lineup of one club but the moment the lineups are out you spot it's 2nd team, you can bet before odds adjust.
Please do not put gambling and betting in same basket.
I agree both can be devastating if you stake more than you can afford and both can ruin lives, but difference is that betting can also be profitable on long run while casino can't(excluding poker and p2p games)

[dimonstration]

Hi guys,
I just want to start a discussion here regarding the topic how hard is it to beat sportsbook.
As a sucessfull bettor for over a decade, I want to state that nowadays it's much harder than in past decade. The whole market changed, majority of sportsbooks became "soft" with low limits and quick limiting of account.
Opening new accounts has neven been harder as KYC are harder than before+everyone lacks normal wallets for such work. In past we had Skrill and Neteller while now those are not an option.
For all of you who will write "crypto", its not an option at all. Firstly lot of good bookmakers don't accept crypto and all crypto bookmaker which I have stumbled upon by now have proven to be a scam. If they suspect even a little, without any proof, they will close account and you can go on court for them forever.

Perhaps you are an arbitrage bettors that’s why you are always having a problem on all the sportsbook that you are playing. This is the oly way you can beat a sportsbook since you are betting on casino error with positive EV on your bets. There’s no way to beat sportsbook because they just balance bets on both side by adjusting the odds in proportion to the amount of bets placed on each side.

Sportsbook is not a scam by just limiting you when you are winning. They are just a business that want’s profit by providing entertainment in the form of gambling. They are not a charity so a profitable user like will gonna hurt the casino profitability as business.

[bittraffic]

You probably didn't try your best to look for a bookmaker that is not a scam. Stake.com had been around for years. I'd be surprised if you hadn't heard of it.

What I'm not sure of is what you mean by beating a sportbook, they are pretty much rich and they limit how much you can bet if they are not able to pay you if you win. Thats sort of how it works and guarantees you may not be able to bankrupt them.

[wheelz1200]

Years ago when information traveled slowly it was a lot easier to find a place to hit a line that hasn't moved.  With the availability of that information and automation to a degree on lines that it has been difficult to grab a good line.  In terms of beating a book it's doable for savy bettors and a well disciplined one who doesn't chase losses.

[Yogee]

[....] I want to state that nowadays it's much harder than in past decade.

[....]I am living of betting for long time and that's simply not possible with 1 account per bookmaker, especially lately.

This is probably not the best forum for you since you're already discussing ways to beat the casino's terms and conditions like multi-accounting or other workarounds. You know that there are many platforms here offering sportsbook so I doubt someone profiting from all these will tell you their secret.

[rhomelmabini]

Hi guys,
I just want to start a discussion here regarding the topic how hard is it to beat sportsbook.
As a sucessfull bettor for over a decade, I want to state that nowadays it's much harder than in past decade. The whole market changed, majority of sportsbooks became "soft" with low limits and quick limiting of account.

Well, they likely to have these measures because they learn from the past and this is likely that mitigating things are their priorities. I don't think that kind of soft but you probably have meaning on that but I think limitations are maintain due to casinos adhering on the rules set from where they get their licenses. Change is constant and casinos aren't an exception to this, this has been made and I know conservative folks out there are having a culture shock.

[Beparanf]

You probably didn't try your best to look for a bookmaker that is not a scam. Stake.com had been around for years. I'd be surprised if you hadn't heard of it.

What I'm not sure of is what you mean by beating a sportbook, they are pretty much rich and they limit how much you can bet if they are not able to pay you if you win. Thats sort of how it works and guarantees you may not be able to bankrupt them.

I think his scam description to crypto bookies are those casino that limit a user when they are winning frequently that makes user like him doesn’t have enough time to play more in the casino to generate more profit. Most of the case of casino scam accusation usually involves sports betting. The reason for that is because user is placing only on valued bets or on matches that is flagged as fixed match.

I think he will experience that same even on Stake or other reputable bookie since he mention that he is always successful on having a profit by playing on bookies.

[AmoreJaz]

You probably didn't try your best to look for a bookmaker that is not a scam. Stake.com had been around for years. I'd be surprised if you hadn't heard of it.

What I'm not sure of is what you mean by beating a sportbook, they are pretty much rich and they limit how much you can bet if they are not able to pay you if you win. Thats sort of how it works and guarantees you may not be able to bankrupt them.

I think his scam description to crypto bookies are those casino that limit a user when they are winning frequently that makes user like him doesn’t have enough time to play more in the casino to generate more profit. Most of the case of casino scam accusation usually involves sports betting. The reason for that is because user is placing only on valued bets or on matches that is flagged as fixed match.

I think he will experience that same even on Stake or other reputable bookie since he mention that he is always successful on having a profit by playing on bookies.

well, if he thinks he's not getting ahead anymore on this type of betting, even playing on reputable bookies, then, he can always change his profession and find another industry where he can earn a lot of money. bookies have their own way of getting ahead of this game, after all, they are in this business to earn as much profits as they can. they will go bankrupt if each bettor will beat the house. so do you think, bookies would let this happen? i don't think so.

[bittraffic]

You probably didn't try your best to look for a bookmaker that is not a scam. Stake.com had been around for years. I'd be surprised if you hadn't heard of it.

What I'm not sure of is what you mean by beating a sportbook, they are pretty much rich and they limit how much you can bet if they are not able to pay you if you win. Thats sort of how it works and guarantees you may not be able to bankrupt them.

I think his scam description to crypto bookies are those casino that limit a user when they are winning frequently that makes user like him doesn’t have enough time to play more in the casino to generate more profit. Most of the case of casino scam accusation usually involves sports betting. The reason for that is because user is placing only on valued bets or on matches that is flagged as fixed match.

I think he will experience that same even on Stake or other reputable bookie since he mention that he is always successful on having a profit by playing on bookies.

well, if he thinks he's not getting ahead anymore on this type of betting, even playing on reputable bookies, then, he can always change his profession and find another industry where he can earn a lot of money. bookies have their own way of getting ahead of this game, after all, they are in this business to earn as much profits as they can. they will go bankrupt if each bettor will beat the house. so do you think, bookies would let this happen? i don't think so.

Agree with that. I don't see the motivation to topple a casino when he can always win if he is that good at betting despite the limit. He doesn't have to kill the business. I don't see anyone giving a reward to him after making a casino bankrupt unless he owns the other. Just cornering the market.  He can try the newer casinos but the competition ahead of them is already going to make a rough road for them.

But how hard is it to beat a sportsbook, it's not easy.

[jakelyson]

Hi guys,
I just want to start a discussion here regarding the topic how hard is it to beat sportsbook.
As a sucessfull bettor for over a decade, I want to state that nowadays it's much harder than in past decade. The whole market changed, majority of sportsbooks became "soft" with low limits and quick limiting of account.
Opening new accounts has neven been harder as KYC are harder than before+everyone lacks normal wallets for such work. In past we had Skrill and Neteller while now those are not an option.

It is not soft but they become even harder in my opinion KYC is additional security, and prevents younger adults to play with gambling, and you can not compare online gambling back then and now because there are a lot of differences right now or you can not compare the casino's with online casino's because it is a very different thing if you don't like KYC then don't get into a certain gambling site that has one, gambling sites are now creating security measure for our money to be safe I think at least we could say is thank you,

For all of you who will write "crypto", its not an option at all. Firstly lot of good bookmakers don't accept crypto and all crypto bookmaker which I have stumbled upon by now have proven to be a scam. If they suspect even a little, without any proof, they will close account and you can go on court for them forever.

It is your choice if you want to use crypto or not used crypto in playing casino and sports bets, for me, I choose betting sites that accept crypto, or it is a good thing to pay or make a tip with Crypto, that will be an easy transaction and to not convert at all,

I have tried everything in betting world and for the first time in over 15 years I believe that it's time to change profession. I am still making really nice figures but with way more effort and dificulties than before.
Reason for this post is that I want to hear experiences from other bettors and maybe we can help each other with advices

Gambling is not a profession, at least it is not a long term thing, but just a short term only because eventually you will change it just like what you are saying right now, well it always good to have a regular job than making gambling as a source of profit because it can not work like that,

[slapper]

Sports betting is changing swiftly, and not necessarily for the better. "Soft" sportsbooks and stricter KYC regulations have made betting harder. These developments require new ways to beat the sportsbook. Crypto isn't widely acknowledged, but it's too early to rule it out. Scams are a problem, but like any new industry, the wheat separates from the chaff. Just wait—trustworthy crypto bookies will emerge. Bettors must be wary of "cheap licenses" and sluggish authorities. Bettors could band together to press for more regulation and accountability from these businesses. It's hard, but doable. Identical odds may make value betting difficult, but they may also inspire more advanced predictive models and statistical research. This could eliminate the same odds problem and restore the edge.

[swogerino]

Hi guys,
I just want to start a discussion here regarding the topic how hard is it to beat sportsbook.
As a sucessfull bettor for over a decade, I want to state that nowadays it's much harder than in past decade. The whole market changed, majority of sportsbooks became "soft" with low limits and quick limiting of account.
Opening new accounts has neven been harder as KYC are harder than before+everyone lacks normal wallets for such work. In past we had Skrill and Neteller while now those are not an option.
For all of you who will write "crypto", its not an option at all. Firstly lot of good bookmakers don't accept crypto and all crypto bookmaker which I have stumbled upon by now have proven to be a scam. If they suspect even a little, without any proof, they will close account and you can go on court for them forever.

Adittional problem nowadays are cheap licenses from Curacao,Malta or Giblatar. Everyone can open a bookmaker, not pay a customer and face no consequences as their govering bodies almost never respond to complaints, let alone solve them.
Most of the bookmakers use same odds provider Betradar(Sportradar) or Betconstruct which creates another obstacle in profiting from betting. Same platform for odds means often identical odds and reactions to stakes so there is not many sites where you can do value betting anylonger.

When it comes to beating a sharp bookie like Pinnacle(which isn't even a sharp anymore), their early limits are ridicilously low and with Early bets you help them correct the lines and remove the value.

I have tried everything in betting world and for the first time in over 15 years I believe that it's time to change profession. I am still making really nice figures but with way more effort and dificulties than before.
Reason for this post is that I want to hear experiences from other bettors and maybe we can help each other with advices

Everything you said is true but you are taking for granted that you win over time in these 15 years and I would love to see some real stats for these,I am sure a good gambler can have them and even if you don't I still believe you.Let me tell though what is difficult for real nowadays,I don't know what bets do you place,what sports and what odds but I mainly play soccer from some time now and today I was screwed by Chile Primera,Huachipato is first in the standings and was playing at home against last place Magallanes who came from at least 3 consecutive lost games in the Chile Primera,yet they got and equalized against Huachipato tonight,screwing many bets,this is for me the real difficulty and not the bet limit,in crypto casinos you have a much higher limit from what I have heard,not 100% sure about this though.

[dothebeats]

There are still lots of bookies that do not impose strict KYC requirements, though their legitimacy is always hanging in the balance and you do not know when will they screw you up with your winnings or deposits. There are still some local bookies here in our country that operate with huge sums, and are still raking millions per day and are consistently giving out winnings in a short time-frame. You cannot really beat those bookies, but you sure can get a lot of money out of them and they'll still pay - at least in my experience those of some high rollers that I personally know.

[seleme]

profession? What do you mean with over 15 years of experience? From my understanding, you made a living with gambling profits for the last 15 years.
Regarding the question, I think it is better to open several accounts with various bookmakers so you can set your own limits and apply whatever gambling strategy you prefer to play.
If you are afraid of account block by bookies, you should check Pinnacle and Betfair. Pinnacle never blocks winners and limits are higher than average bookies, while on Betfair you play against other users not house.

[Wexnident]

~

Ehhh it's mostly because it's much more developed now compared to the past. There were some, if I were to describe it, loopholes that people were able to take advantage of before so they were able to profit substantially enough, to the point where "beating" the sportsbook can be a thing. That's just how things goes imo. Ofc this doesn't include scam casinos who can easily use Curacao licenses (I've seen them before) or just generally sites that don't provide anything good compared to existing reputable ones, they're just sites that exist thinking profit exists in hosting sports bets.

Same with the KYC issue. It's an issue of the past since it was untouched, but with how bookmakers operate nowadays and how laws were made around it, it's natural to feel that it's restraining a LOT of people, and that's their goal imo. So that they are in actual control of what's happening, or whatever it is that's happening, they know the limits of it. It's how they keep their business in the long term afloat imo. Tbf no one would like they're business to suddenly go under because of a no-limit bet their user made.

[quanth1919]

You probably didn't try your best to look for a bookmaker that is not a scam. Stake.com had been around for years. I'd be surprised if you hadn't heard of it.

What I'm not sure of is what you mean by beating a sportbook, they are pretty much rich and they limit how much you can bet if they are not able to pay you if you win. Thats sort of how it works and guarantees you may not be able to bankrupt them.

Stake.com is one of the worst out there. Using Celebs to promote themselves with huge sums while in real life you can't bet 500 usd on low level tennis. Their offer is sh1t and when they lock your account, it takes ages to answer or resolve issues.
For 99% of time their support doesn't provide answer but switch blame to another department etc..And to sue them, that's another pa1n in the ass..
Stake.com aims for gamblers who go in casino or ludomaniacs, not normal people as their offer is really poor.