Bitcoin spot ETF make bitcoin price to increase?

[_act_]

According to Investopedia:

Bitcoin exchange-traded funds (ETFs) are pools of bitcoin-related assets offered on traditional exchanges by brokerages to be traded as ETFs. The intent behind these ETFs is to give retail investors and investors not comfortable investing in cryptocurrencies access to them without actually owning them.

This means that bitcoin ETFs are not bitcoin, they are another asset which their price is pegged with bitcoin. Which means it has nothing to do with bitcoin demand and supply having effect on the bitcoin price.

Some people wants bitcoin ETF. I think they only care about their pockets. I will prefer the adoption in a way people should own the real bitcoin, not ETF which is not bitcoin.

If people do not buy the real bitcoin but buying the ETF, will bitcoin price increase? Or how will bitcoin ETF will in bitcoin adoption and price increase when they are not bitcoin?

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[komisariatku]

Looks like bitcoin is moving into a different version of investing. Maybe this is similar to the concept of calculating the total financial fiat money which has M1, M2, M3 and M4 specifications. The original amount of fiat money is M1, while the calculation of M2, M3 and M4 is the amount of fiat money + assets that are not fiat money but have financial value. Honestly I'm not an expert, maybe someone can correct it. If a bitcoin ETF is realized then bitcoin M1 is 21,000,000 btc, while bitcoin M2 is 21 million + bitcoin ETF (maybe 21 million too)

Although bitcoin ETFs are shadows of bitcoin or not real bitcoin, with the advent of bitcoin ETFs, more and more people can invest in bitcoins, and can even invest in bitcoins without going through a crypto exchange. I think that the more people invest in bitcoin, the higher the price will be, and besides, real bitcoin cannot be replaced.

[Aanuoluwatofunmi]

According to Investopedia:

Bitcoin exchange-traded funds (ETFs) are pools of bitcoin-related assets offered on traditional exchanges by brokerages to be traded as ETFs. The intent behind these ETFs is to give retail investors and investors not comfortable investing in cryptocurrencies access to them without actually owning them.

This means that bitcoin ETFs are not bitcoin, they are another asset which their price is pegged with bitcoin. Which means it has nothing to do with bitcoin demand and supply having effect on the bitcoin price.

You're right, one could also sensed this from the channel it's coming when it has to depends on the SEC for an approval and knowing that bitcoin is a decentralized digital currency, spot bitcoin ETF is what we aren't much concerned about and has nothing to deal with the overall bitcoin network market price to fall or rise wether it's been approved or not, BlackRock is taking this decision in other to engage more of its clients in investment with their services knowing that such could also be a possible prospect they will want to receive an offer for through shares and bonds pegged with bitcoin price and not the bitcoin itself.

[pakhitheboss]

You are right with the ETF news the price of Bitcoin is going up. If one of them gets approved then we might see a bull run in the coming months. As per my understanding these ETFs would bring in regulation around Bitcoin and other cryptocurrency. There have been attempts in the to get Bitcoin ETF approved but we're declined by the SEC. This time it is being done using big financial institution and hopefully it should get approved this time.

Buying Bitcoin through ETF is just like buying Bitcoin. When we buy on an exchange we the transaction happens between the user and the exchange. In case of ETF it will be the user the ETF provider and the exchange. This is my understanding and I may be incorrect. 

[Lucius]

This means that bitcoin ETFs are not bitcoin, they are another asset which their price is pegged with bitcoin. Which means it has nothing to do with bitcoin demand and supply having effect on the bitcoin price.

Some people wants bitcoin ETF. I think they only care about their pockets. I will prefer the adoption in a way people should own the real bitcoin, not ETF which is not bitcoin.

If people do not buy the real bitcoin but buying the ETF, will bitcoin price increase? Or how will bitcoin ETF will in bitcoin adoption and price increase when they are not bitcoin?

After all the hundreds of topics about BTC ETFs you still do not understand the difference between futures ETF and what has been talked about in the last few weeks, which is the spot (physical) BTC ETF that until now the SEC has consistently rejected. If such an ETF were approved in the US, then that fund would have to buy BTC to sell shares in that fund to clients. It is obvious that if someone buys BTC in large quantities the price will go up.

In other words, those who do not want to buy directly with CEX or DEX, and want to trade with BTC will buy it through ETF which will then keep them until the moment they want to sell it. I can also claim that everyone who bought BTC through CEX and keeps it there actually bought nothing but an empty promise that the number representing the amount of BTC they bought is correct, although the numbers on the screen are one thing, and the actual state of the funds is something completely different.

[_act_]

After all the hundreds of topics about BTC ETFs you still do not understand the difference between futures ETF and what has been talked about in the last few weeks, which is the spot (physical) BTC ETF that until now the SEC has consistently rejected.

How did you know if I read the topics and the replies? Or is it bad to ask a question of what that I do not understand? This sounds harsh and I think you should be polite in your discussion.

If such an ETF were approved in the US, then that fund would have to buy BTC to sell shares in that fund to clients. It is obvious that if someone buys BTC in large quantities the price will go up.

If I understand your correctly, spot ETF bitcoin means an organization will buy bitcoin on your behalf, which can be through the stock market, making more people to be able to buy bitcoin but indirectly. The more people buy spot ETF bitcoin, the more the price of bitcoin will increase. That is great, it is very different from future ETF. It is just like the GBTC from Grayscale, but better because more people prefer spot ETF in stock market.

I can also claim that everyone who bought BTC through CEX and keeps it there actually bought nothing but an empty promise that the number representing the amount of BTC they bought is correct, although the numbers on the screen are one thing, and the actual state of the funds is something completely different.

Why should someone use CEX to store bitcoin. That is not good and the people doing that are putting their money at risk like what happened to FTX users and users of many other hacked exchanges. Bitcoin ETF will be better, it will help in bitcoin adoption. But I can not go beyond having my coins on noncustodial wallets,  having the real bitcoin directly.

[paid2]

Bitcoin ETF will be better, it will help in bitcoin adoption. But I can not go beyond having my coins on noncustodial wallets.

I don't know if we can talk about real adoption with ETFs.

It's true that this will increase trading volumes, but it's not as if the people investing in these ETFs are going to use Bitcoin for anything other than speculation.
Personally, I see something contributing to Bitcoin's adoption when it comes to adding a new place where Bitcoin can be used for what it really is, as a currency and not just a speculative object.

I'd be a thousand times happier to learn that Ebay accepts Bitcoin as a means of payment than to know that an ETF spot is about to be launched. I think that would be closer to real adoption than ETFs.

Why should someone use CEX to store bitcoin. That is not good and the people doing that are putting their money at risk like what happened to FTX users and users of many other hacked exchanges. Bitcoin ETF will be better

If the said ETF is fully backed by Coinbase, there is no difference for the final user IMO

[Lucius]

How did you know if I read the topics and the replies?

I guess (obviously wrong) that you should have at least seen (if you haven't already read) all the threads on the topic of BTC ETF that have appeared these days.

Another attempt at Bitcoin ETF..You knew it was coming once BTC raised above ATH
bitcoin ETFs
BlackRock and Fidelity both apply for bitcoin ETFs
BlackRock Bitcoin ETF to Partners with Coinbase

Or is it bad to ask a question of what that I do not understand? This sounds harsh and I think you should be polite in your discussion.

At least as many threads have been reported and have been deleted, and if you go to Economics boards, you will find at least 5+ threads on the same topic. Accordingly, I could very easily report your thread as low value/repetitive content, but I wanted to point out the meaninglessness of the questions you ask given how much we've already discussed it.

I also think I'm quite polite in my comments, but in the future I'll even refrain from trying to point out some things to people, and I'll use another option more

[Plaguedeath]

Nope, both of Bitcoin ETF and Bitcoin are different, so if you buy Bitcoin ETF, the price will not affect Bitcoin and vice versa.

It's funny how Investopedia somewhat vouching to invest in Bitcoin ETF than real Bitcoin because they wrote "not comfortable to own the cryptocurrency" actually it's mean you're not buying Bitcoin, but you bought a shitcoin.

Which one is easier to buy Bitcoin through CEX or through ETF? I believe both are similar.

[tbct_mt2]

In other words, those who do not want to buy directly with CEX or DEX, and want to trade with BTC will buy it through ETF which will then keep them until the moment they want to sell it. I can also claim that everyone who bought BTC through CEX and keeps it there actually bought nothing but an empty promise that the number representing the amount of BTC they bought is correct, although the numbers on the screen are one thing, and the actual state of the funds is something completely different.

They will have to check Bitcoin Treasury of that Bitcoin ETF carefully. But Bitcoin transaction can be broadcasted anytime and if fee rate is at tip of mempool, it will be confirmed within one block.

Buying shares from a Bitcoin spot ETF with such belief is not what I will do. I always have other choices like centralized exchanges or decentralized exchanges. Finish my buying and withdraw bitcoin to my wallet. With Bitcoin Spot ETF, I will only receive shares, not bitcoin.

Spend money, don't receive bitcoin, I won't choose this option.

[Lucius]

~snip~
Buying shares from a Bitcoin spot ETF with such belief is not what I will do. I always have other choices like centralized exchanges or decentralized exchanges. Finish my buying and withdraw bitcoin to my wallet. With Bitcoin Spot ETF, I will only receive shares, not bitcoin.

I'm pretty convinced it's not a service for mere mortals who want to buy a couple hundred or thousands $ worth of BTC - and if memory serves me right, shares in such funds are measured in tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's something that will be used by big and wealthy investors who have millions or billions of dollars under the management of companies like Fidelity or BlackRock.

[Yamane_Keto]

ETF funds are an option for institutional investors who want to add this class of assets to their investment portfolios through a highly regulated third party. The assets in the fund will be monitored to ensure that the institutional investors get their money that they invested. There are indirect options that are currently possible, which is investing in Grayscale Investments or MS, both of which are indirect investments in Bitcoin.

[KiaKia]

Either the ETF is going to get approved or not, the SEC are in control right now meaning they can use the ETF to manipulate the market, all what's happening in the crypto space feels like a game to me, those who really make all these works are investors that react to every bad news that the centralized entities share into the world, I believe many crypto investors are still very weak but as time goes on all these manipulations will be less effective.

Even if these so-called ETFs never get approved later it won't stop Bitcoin from creating a new all time high in 2025 so the power that the SEC have now is the panic that's present inside every crypto investors.

[Cookdata]

This means that bitcoin ETFs are not bitcoin, they are another asset which their price is pegged with bitcoin. Which means it has nothing to do with bitcoin demand and supply having effect on the bitcoin price.

Some people wants bitcoin ETF. I think they only care about their pockets. I will prefer the adoption in a way people should own the real bitcoin, not ETF which is not bitcoin.

If people do not buy the real bitcoin but buying the ETF, will bitcoin price increase? Or how will bitcoin ETF will in bitcoin adoption and price increase when they are not bitcoin?

I hope you realize what happened after SEC announced and published a list of altcoins that are security and how many US exchanges were delisting them to avoid further lawsuits and fines, and not just that, the security concerns that comes with Bitcoin is what these people are trying to protect from their opinion and this is why some retail investors prefer to have Bitcoin ETF rather than just the traditional bitcoin. Over the years, the Security Exchange Commission has given out ETFs to some retail and institutional investors but the reason why this particular one is trending was that Blackrock was the one that apply and they are one of the biggest companies with so much liquidity.

Buying Bitcoin doesn't really change the concept and its impact, what drives the price is the person and the kind of institutional investors that want to start Bitcoin ETF, take a look at Blackrock for example, they are worth $104 billion today and in the past, the CEO is well known for bashing Bitcoin but all of sudden, he became interested in Bitcoin, these are the kind of things that drive the price of Bitcoin and we also saw a decline in its price 2 days ago when it was rejected by SEC and they refilled and sent again. This is how ETF affects Bitcoin price and if it gets accepted, we may see a further price increase.

[_act_]

Over the years, the Security Exchange Commission has given out ETFs to some retail and institutional investors but the reason why this particular one is trending was that Blackrock was the one that apply and they are one of the biggest companies with so much liquidity.

SEC has always turn down anything related to bitcoin spot ETF. Only what SEC accept is future bitcoin ETF. I can remember when Grayscale demanded for bitcoin spot ETF, SEC turn it down. Many companies have requested for it but SEC turned all down including the recent one.

[DannyHamilton]

This means that bitcoin ETFs are not bitcoin, they are another asset which their price is pegged with bitcoin. Which means it has nothing to do with bitcoin demand and supply having effect on the bitcoin price.

But it might.

Any time the ETF price differs from the true Bitcoin price, (due to demand changes on the ETF), there will be an arbitrage opportunity that will drive that same change in demand directly back to Bitcoin itself.

Furthermore, depending on how the ETF is structured, it may be necessary for the ETF itself to purchase real bitcoin to hold as backing for the fund. This might be needed to main the peg to the Bitcoin price.  Even if the fund doesn't directly purchase Bitcoins to keep up with the demand on the fund, any Bitcoin based asset it does hold might be backed by actual Bitcoin.

I don't know the specifics of the particular ETFs that are currently proposed, but it may be worth a closer look to determine if demand for the fund is likely to drive demand for actual Bitcoin as well.

[avikz]

The ETF name itself suggests that it is not bitcoin but an asset pegged to its value. It's a very popular product and the market is literally flooded with thousands of ETFs.

Bitcoin ETFs can be impactful only when they are physically settled. That means the ETF will actually hold bitcoins to support their investments. However, ETFs can be different as well. They may decide not to do that. If an ETF is not a physically settled one, then there will be no impact on the market. I hope this answers your question.

[Lucius]

SEC has always turn down anything related to bitcoin spot ETF. Only what SEC accept is future bitcoin ETF. I can remember when Grayscale demanded for bitcoin spot ETF, SEC turn it down. Many companies have requested for it but SEC turned all down including the recent one.

You are wrong, because the SEC did not reject the request, but only asked for the filling to be supplemented with additional information and the whole process continued afterwards. The whole process can take up to 240 days, so the final decision can be made even at the beginning of next year.

Besides, BlackRock is not just any kind of company, it's the biggest in the business globally, and if the SEC (U.S. government) is going to give anyone a spot BTC ETF, then they have the best chance.

[Z-tight]

It's funny how Investopedia somewhat vouching to invest in Bitcoin ETF than real Bitcoin because they wrote "not comfortable to own the cryptocurrency" actually it's mean you're not buying Bitcoin, but you bought a shitcoin.

You got that wrong, the news site isn't vouching for BTC-eft's, what they say is true because there are so many institutional investors that would not want to register on centralized crypto exchanges or to keep their own keys by themselves, it will be easier for them to add BTC as part of their invesments through their assets manager.

Investing in BTC through a BTC spot-ETF isn't the same thing as buying a shitcoin, you are not even actually holding any coin, but shares of your BTC investments offered by the company. It has to be said that not your keys not your coins, but spot-etf's will suit certain kinds of investors and they are free to go for it if approved.