Lost bitcoins

[BenCodie]

We can always remind ourselves and others about the precautions and steps to make sure that holdings are secure to prevent loss, though I'm sure that there will always be mistakes and irresponsibility (both are human nature after all) and therefore Bitcoin will always receive involuntary donations.

I agree with that, I do not think that they donated to make sure that the supply drops and the value would go up. I think they just involuntarily did that by making a mistake.

In the early days, I'm sure many played with the theory of destroying coins in attempt to effect price. Or, believed they were contributing to the ecosystem by destroying coins. Of course it would be a very small percentage of people vs. involuntary/mistakingly...though still some people may have nonetheless.

I have done that before, there is some money out there somewhere in the world that I used to own.  I am fine with it and at peace because it was about 10 dollars back then, and probably somewhere close to 3k today, and will probably be more later on.

Me too. It sucks, but that's just how it goes! You have to also remember that you could have spent or sold those coins at any point from then until today, and when you think of it that way you find more peace in knowing that either way you may not have ran the whole hodl marathon to date.

However, I had the chance to get more of it when I can and decided not to, so it is going to be a different situation. In the end we are talking about a situation where it is going to be difficult and we need to learn to live with it and can't really make a big difference in the end when the time comes.

Agreed....and deciding not to now at a point where the future is so obvious, is a much different regret to earlier days. Let's hope ourselves and others do better for our future.

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[ancafe]

I read some old threads about lost Bitcoins ND this question has been on my mind ever since
If the lost Bitcoins were for instance recovered will the price of Bitcoin drop  because in theory it would affect the amount of Bitcoin in circulation which will lower it's price . I saw in those threads that lost Bitcoins are considered a donation to the Bitcoin network. so if my theory is correct then we should be happy those Bitcoins were lost.

The cause of the loss of bitcoins is caused by several things, cases of hacking and loss of storage wallet access. If the trait is lost, but can eventually recover it means it will never disappear. The price of bitcoin is not determined by a single event and there are many things that might influence it. For example, such as demand and supply as a general basis whenever something is traded and there is always a bargaining value that applies in the market.

No one likes it if the bitcoin they have is lost, so therefore everyone must be able to secure the bitcoin they have by storing it in a safe place. There are wallets that can make bitcoins safe to store and all you need to do is learn how to use them.

[worle1bm]

Basically we and system don't count these coins as lost. THere is prosigure to loose it forever.

We can't actually count them but we can see how many are in circulation while the actual one's lost are those which cannot be recovered at all that will decrease the 21M supply with that number permanently.So what system you are talking about here? If there is possibility to recover any coins we can't consider them lost so how come we decide these numbers?

[Smartvirus]

<snipe>

Technically, the bitcoins aren’t lost as its readily visible on the address or addresses instead, what’s lost is the seed phrase or private keys to the wallets hodling them and in some cases, on some exchange that went out of existence. In most cases, these exchanges just make away with your money and you consider it lost.

Should the coins be recovered by any means, that still doesn’t mean it’s all going to be offered for sales in the market. Haven’t understood what values it’s got and what future it could have in time, it wouldn’t be strange to have anyone completely liquidate their portfolio. I think the smart move would be, selling just enough to be stable or rich as you could be while, you hodl the major for a time you don’t know yet.

In the event that such persons or organizations gets to sell, surely the market will sock it all up and be back before you know it.

[JanNettFoster]

Lost bitcoins cannot be recovered. Everything else is just a fairy tale, unfortunately

[Patrol69]

People who are involved with Bitcoin or who hold Bitcoin for a long period of time first settle their wallets more and then hold Bitcoins for a long time so it is very difficult to lose Bitcoins with this much security. But the bitcoins that are lost from the market may be from one person to another, but the amount of bitcoins that were supplied is still in the market, so even if the lost bitcoins are recovered, there is no possibility that the value of bitcoins will decrease. But if some more amount of Bitcoin is added to the market beyond the total supply then the price of Bitcoin may fall down from the current state. If there is some amount of bitcoins in the reserve, then those bitcoins must be released in the market according to a certain medium. If those bitcoins can be released in the market according to a certain medium, then the price of bitcoins will remain normal.

[Abiky]

I disagree that there is no such thing as a donation. I am sure in the years of 2008-2012 people who held Bitcoin may have had the idea that by destroying supply in some way, would positively contribute to the economics of Bitcoin due to reducing the supply. These actions would be considered donations to the network. It's very unlikely that this still happens with similar amounts. Maybe similar things happen today, though it just seems less likely due to value difference at that point until now.

Those who irresponsibly held their coins and then lost access to them did not voluntarily donate to the network like the above, rather their own actions and unfortunate circumstances led to an involuntary donation to the network, as their loss becomes beneficial to the economics of Bitcoin (again, less supply).

I agree that bruteforcing is unlikely to ever be successful and if it ever is near, a patch will be implemented prior to it being deployed against Bitcoin....I hope.

There are also "dormant" Bitcoins which are kept in a cold storage wallet for later use. Some people believe these coins are lost because of the inactivity on the Blockchain. There's really no way to tell if Bitcoins are lost or dormant. But you can rest assured that BTC won't be affected just because some people lost their coins. There are plenty of satoshis for everyone to get into the game. The more coins lost, the higher the price of a Bitcoin will be.

I'd focus on buying and accumulating BTC to prepare myself for the future. Who knows if we're closer to $1m per coin than we've ever thought? Just my opinion

[Blitzboy]

People who are involved with Bitcoin or who hold Bitcoin for a long period of time first settle their wallets more and then hold Bitcoins for a long time so it is very difficult to lose Bitcoins with this much security. But the bitcoins that are lost from the market may be from one person to another, but the amount of bitcoins that were supplied is still in the market, so even if the lost bitcoins are recovered, there is no possibility that the value of bitcoins will decrease. But if some more amount of Bitcoin is added to the market beyond the total supply then the price of Bitcoin may fall down from the current state. If there is some amount of bitcoins in the reserve, then those bitcoins must be released in the market according to a certain medium. If those bitcoins can be released in the market according to a certain medium, then the price of bitcoins will remain normal.

There can't be any more Bitcoins created than there are in circulation. The blockchain technology which underpins Bitcoin doesnt allow for the issuance of more coins than are already in circulation. Inflationary threats associated with conventional fiat currencies are reduced by this idea of finite supply.

When considering reserves, however, keep in mind that Bitcoin is not like conventional financial institutions. Reserves do not exist; all that exists is unmined Bitcoin. These will be added to the market via mining at a steadily increasing rate until the final Bitcoin is mined in about 2140. In the meanwhile, lets HODL

[BenCodie]

I disagree that there is no such thing as a donation. I am sure in the years of 2008-2012 people who held Bitcoin may have had the idea that by destroying supply in some way, would positively contribute to the economics of Bitcoin due to reducing the supply. These actions would be considered donations to the network. It's very unlikely that this still happens with similar amounts. Maybe similar things happen today, though it just seems less likely due to value difference at that point until now.

Those who irresponsibly held their coins and then lost access to them did not voluntarily donate to the network like the above, rather their own actions and unfortunate circumstances led to an involuntary donation to the network, as their loss becomes beneficial to the economics of Bitcoin (again, less supply).

I agree that bruteforcing is unlikely to ever be successful and if it ever is near, a patch will be implemented prior to it being deployed against Bitcoin....I hope.

There are also "dormant" Bitcoins which are kept in a cold storage wallet for later use. Some people believe these coins are lost because of the inactivity on the Blockchain. There's really no way to tell if Bitcoins are lost or dormant. But you can rest assured that BTC won't be affected just because some people lost their coins. There are plenty of satoshis for everyone to get into the game. The more coins lost, the higher the price of a Bitcoin will be.

Of course, cold storage is something I forgot to mention. Nice one!

I do wonder though, if you stored coins in 2008-2013, would you have just kept the private key and left it this entire time, or would you have moved the coins to better storage following? If someone is still holding their coins from that era and has not touched them, while keeping them safe and having peace of mind with the way they store it, they definitely deserve some credit and commendation.

I'd focus on buying and accumulating BTC to prepare myself for the future. Who knows if we're closer to $1m per coin than we've ever thought? Just my opinion

For us that unfortunately don't have cold storage from that era, exactly. The only thing we can do is focus on accumulating! Good luck everyone

[taufik123]

-snip-
I do wonder though, if you stored coins in 2008-2013, would you have just kept the private key and left it this entire time, or would you have moved the coins to better storage following? If someone is still holding their coins from that era and has not touched them, while keeping them safe and having peace of mind with the way they store it, they definitely deserve some credit and commendation.

To save up to this point seems like it would be a miracle.
But when they forget and find the private key now stored in a safe place, they are quite lucky.

Few people will be able to hold on to it for now, but if they are experts and store or move their bitcoins in a Cold Wallet or hardware wallet, they are ready from the start and believe in Bitcoin.

Like the story of Davinci Jeremie, a software developer from Chile who is a true Bitcoin Holder.
Bought Bitcoin for under $1 and held it until now then sold it gradually and became a Bitcoin investor with a million-dollar fortune.

It takes a strong determination and belief that Bitcoin will reach its highest price and become valuable in the future.
No one will lose Bitcoin.

[BenCodie]

-snip-
I do wonder though, if you stored coins in 2008-2013, would you have just kept the private key and left it this entire time, or would you have moved the coins to better storage following? If someone is still holding their coins from that era and has not touched them, while keeping them safe and having peace of mind with the way they store it, they definitely deserve some credit and commendation.

To save up to this point seems like it would be a miracle.
But when they forget and find the private key now stored in a safe place, they are quite lucky.

Not just a miracle, but also extremely good discipline. Of course if you lost it and found it, definitely a miracle. Just holding it however, just diamond hands!

Few people will be able to hold on to it for now, but if they are experts and store or move their bitcoins in a Cold Wallet or hardware wallet, they are ready from the start and believe in Bitcoin.

You don't need to be an expert to utilize cold storage. In fact, everyone should be using at least cold storage for coins that are not planning to be moved for 1-3 months+.

Given today's economic circumstance - you are right in saying that it is hard for the average person to hold on for the long haul.

Like the story of Davinci Jeremie, a software developer from Chile who is a true Bitcoin Holder.
Bought Bitcoin for under $1 and held it until now then sold it gradually and became a Bitcoin investor with a million-dollar fortune.

It takes a strong determination and belief that Bitcoin will reach its highest price and become valuable in the future.
No one will lose Bitcoin.

I wish I was a part of Bitcoin at those prices, and had a few hundred dollars of cash to spare. I would like to think that I would at least have been able to hold onto a few or put some in cold storage for the long run. Yet, here we are. A strong amount of determination, belief and lack of interference from financial circumstances I believe were absolutely necessary in hindsight.

[Bitcoin_people]

If the amount of Bitcoin lost is recovered in full, it will not significantly affect the value of Bitcoin. And you should never do that thinking because lost bitcoins can never be recovered. and we can say that the amount of lost bitcoins should be considered as a donation to the bitcoin network. and as per your question, even if the lost bitcoins are fully recovered, there will be no damage or change to the bitcoin network, but the price of bitcoin may fall slightly.

[Abiky]

If the missing Bitcoins are recovered, the price of Bitcoin could face potential impacts. This is because the return of the missing Bitcoins would increase the total amount of Bitcoin in circulation in the market. Since the value of Bitcoin is based on supply and demand, an increase in the amount of Bitcoins in circulation has the potential to affect the price downwards.

However, the effects of such a situation will depend on many factors that are difficult to predict. The size of the quantity, market conditions, investor reaction, etc.

And that will never happen unless developers change the code and the community approves it. We all know how Bitcoin SV's attempts to do this turned into a huge failure. It's simply not worth doing this. By increasing the circulating supply, you're essentially removing value from the market. You can see why Satoshi always said that lost Bitcoins are a donation to the community.

I'm fine with BTC just the way it is as long as it remains decentralized and censorship-resistant. That said, it's up to you to take responsibility by preventing the loss or theft of your BTC. Who knows if the number of lost coins is reduced over time? Just my opinion

[Wimex]

The theory you propose has some foundation, but as others have said in the thread, it cannot be based solely on the supply in circulation... because the price of BTC goes beyond that simplicity, other much more important factors come into play here, Which would further highlight the scarcity, since it is known that in total only 21 million bitcoins can be mined and as demand increases and supply remains limited, the price tends to rise. If the lost bitcoins were to be recovered, the total amount of bitcoins in circulation would increase, which could lessen the upward pressure caused by the shortage and affect the price. One thing I learned from the Wyckoff Method book is market perception and I say this because it's a key driver of the Bitcoin price… the market is very sensitive to perceptions and news. If a large number of lost bitcoins are reported to have been recovered, this could have a psychological impact on investors and traders, potentially influencing the direction of Bitcoin's price.

I highlight the fact that current factors such as institutional adoption, government regulation, public acceptance and the underlying technology have been giving a lot of talk about the value of Bitcoin… So thinking about the low probability of recovering those lost Bitcoin will only remain in situations that most likely will never happen.

[TheUltraElite]

If the amount of Bitcoin lost is recovered in full, it will not significantly affect the value of Bitcoin. And you should never do that thinking because lost bitcoins can never be recovered. and we can say that the amount of lost bitcoins should be considered as a donation to the bitcoin network. and as per your question, even if the lost bitcoins are fully recovered, there will be no damage or change to the bitcoin network, but the price of bitcoin may fall slightly.

If the coins are recovered then you can assume that they are back in circulation and the owner might try to sell them, which is their personal choice. If the coins are never recovered which is the maximum number of cases, those coins can be considered to be "inaccessible" and therefore lost forever and not coming back to the market to change its prices.

But the chances of such recoveries are tiny. So better to consider lost bitcoin as lost forever.

[pawanjain]

I read some old threads about lost Bitcoins ND this question has been on my mind ever since
If the lost Bitcoins were for instance recovered will the price of Bitcoin drop  because in theory it would affect the amount of Bitcoin in circulation which will lower it's price . I saw in those threads that lost Bitcoins are considered a donation to the Bitcoin network. so if my theory is correct then we should be happy those Bitcoins were lost.

It is very simple. The bitcoins that are lost can be considered as burnt and it directly reduces the active supply of bitcoins in the network.
So bitcoin becomes more scarce with reducing supply which gives it more value. If the bitcoins are recovered the active supply increases making the value slightly decrease.
It's all about the demand and supply.

[Popkon6]

I read some old threads about lost Bitcoins ND this question has been on my mind ever since
If the lost Bitcoins were for instance recovered will the price of Bitcoin drop  because in theory it would affect the amount of Bitcoin in circulation which will lower it's price . I saw in those threads that lost Bitcoins are considered a donation to the Bitcoin network. so if my theory is correct then we should be happy those Bitcoins were lost.

The lost bitcoins I think will never be recovered so if they were then about half of the bitcoins would have been recovered by now.  And in the current Bitcoin environment I think the price won't go down even if the lost Bitcoins are recovered. Because as more bitcoins come into the market, the number of buyers will increase. @op Lost Key How to unlock your wallet if lost? I don't think it can ever be salvaged. Currently, the number of people in the market is very high, so if it was possible to recover BTC, many people would have recovered it and brought it to the market.

No one has ever held Bitcoin in an environment where Bitcoin would be lost. I personally store bitcoins in wallets I will never lose. So those who hold quality bitcoins may have been hoarding bitcoins for a long time. And no one will ever throw the face keys of hardware wallets down the drain.

[Litzki1990]

The price of Bitcoin may depend on the demand for Bitcoin in the market rather than the supply of Bitcoin in the market. Suppose at the moment the total supply of Bitcoin is reduced a lot but people do not buy and sell Bitcoin, then even if the total supply decreases, the price of Bitcoin will decrease because people do not like Bitcoin. Similarly, if lost bitcoins can be recovered and those bitcoins are released into the market, the value of bitcoins will not decrease even if people believe in bitcoins and people buy more bitcoins. According to certain calculations the number of Bitcoin users is increasing every year, that is, the amount of Bitcoin generated every year is equal to the amount of new members connecting to Bitcoin to buy Bitcoin, so I think we should not worry about the price of Bitcoin.

[tread93]

I read some old threads about lost Bitcoins ND this question has been on my mind ever since
If the lost Bitcoins were for instance recovered will the price of Bitcoin drop  because in theory it would affect the amount of Bitcoin in circulation which will lower it's price . I saw in those threads that lost Bitcoins are considered a donation to the Bitcoin network. so if my theory is correct then we should be happy those Bitcoins were lost.

Such a shame too, but yeah it is overall good for all holders. That type of loss would surely be a tough pill to swallow, eh? All the way from Mt Gox to FTX and everything in between.

[Despairo]

Such a shame too, but yeah it is overall good for all holders. That type of loss would surely be a tough pill to swallow, eh? All the way from Mt Gox to FTX and everything in between.

The lost of customers' coins in Mt. Gox, FTX or any centralized exchanges aren't entirely lost. The coins can still be accessed and spend, the different is just the person who hold the coins. It's like you get hacked, the coins belong to hacker.

Bitcoin is lost from the circulation supply when no one own the private key or not able to access it anymore.