If bitcoin according to Satoshi is digital money then why call it investment.

[CryptSafe]

CryptSafe my Nigga, you have been a while in the forum and there are some terms we learn to know their uses base on the way they are used in the context both in physical classroom too, not all the words the teacher pronounced are known to us instant but some we know from the context the teacher used. First of all I want to thank you for understanding the part that bitcoin is a digital currency. Now if it is a currency, have you heard the term "loan" with Fiat Currency? Yes. Now how does loan work. Loaning someone doesn't mean you are buying something but you give money to someone with a specific amount and the person will pay you back with interest. That is an investment, isn't it? That is you gave out money to get profit from the money you gave out. There is a saying in Nigeria, "We use money to find money", that is we used money to get more money from the capital.

Now when we come to bitcoin, yes bitcoin is money for digital use only and bitcoin appreciate so people buy bitcoin when the price is low and sell it out when the price increase and that is the investment part of bitcoin. So don't be confused with it, it is the buying and selling of bitcoin is the investment. Like now, if you buy bitcoin today as it is $30k and keep it for about 3 to 4 years and bitcoin price increase to $60k how much do you think you will make? That will be a big amount of money though that will also depends on the amount you used for the investment. Bitcoin is just like the loan business that appreciate time.

Bros, I want to clear doubt o. But anyways I get your points mate. I was looking at it from Satoshi perspective of bitcoin being a digital cash and how it deviated from being a digital cash to investment opportunity. I believe the scarcity as orchestrated by the whales and the market uncertainty ignited it to where it is today. People at the helms of affairs control the make at any time they want and at their own will while those trading at their mercies just speculate around with fear of the market trend.

I know for sure trading on bitcoin would generate profit for those engaged in the activities that is why they see it as investment. Buying when the price is low and selling when it is high for profit purpose and lots more is not bad as many depend on it for daily income. This is the investment for which it was turned into and it still serves the same purpose as it turns to be digital cash.

[ZAINmalik75]

You are right about the main purpose of BTC which was p2p transaction based on decentralization but as technology progressed new use cases of BTC also took place like investment. And also due to the volatility factor of BTC people started to use it as investment and it would not be right to say that every BTC user is using it for Investments purposes and it would not be appropriate to say that in early days the adoption of BTC was high thus at that time people were not using it to store there money.

As BTC was still new and new investors and risk takers are testing their luck but of course only few knew the potential BTC have.

But i think it would be a waste of valuable asset if you would get profit out of it but do not tend to do so. The best practise is to use it to gain profits and how one can gain profits if BTC proved to be a wrong source of storing value of your money? It is not. Btc is a source of storing money so why not making investment in it.

[panganib999]

The world has freedom of speech and you can call Bitcoin as anything you want in your vision.

You can call it as it is, Bitcoin but you can call it as a shitcoin, a virtual currency, digital currency or even a scam currency.
If you buy it and hold it as an asset, you will call it as a store of value, for your investment.
If you use it at a gambling site, you will call it as a gambling currency.
You use bitcoin in your own ways and other people use their bitcoins in their ways which can be different than yours.

It can be called as The Internet of money
or as a Bitcoin standard.

Whatever you call it, others call it, Bitcoin is Bitcoin.

That's a little lazy you know. Cause it doesn't really dig deep to what made bitcoin an investment in the first place.

To answer your question OP, for a good amount of time bitcoin was solely used as a form of peerless money transfer method across the internet. Think of it as the basic version of Paypal. It was like that for a couple of years but soon as more people jumped into the train and bought or sold bitcoins for themselves, the value of bitcoin increased, from going for less than a dime back in the days to as much as 70 bucks in 2012 (AFAIK). Since then, people saw the opportunity in bitcoin and decided that since it pumps in value over time, it could be wise to hold money on it not for the sake of using it as a payment system, but to bag profits in the process. That's just what happened and until the boom of cryptocurrencies in 2016, the term bitcoin "investment" became more popular.

[mendace]

I have been trying to explain this for years now, that Bitcoin is not a form of investment but only a totally secure and distributed digital means of payment. Just like in Satoshi's wp we talk about peer to peer payment but people see it as the form of investment that will make them rich, all wrong. Great thread

[Oasisman]

I have been trying to explain this for years now, that Bitcoin is not a form of investment but only a totally secure and distributed digital means of payment. Just like in Satoshi's wp we talk about peer to peer payment but people see it as the form of investment that will make them rich, all wrong. Great thread

Exactly, as bitcoin became more and more volatile, people are also leaning towards bitcoin as their investment asset  more rather than a currency which can be used to pay for something or a currency which has no boundary that doesn't require a 3rd party facilities.
Satoshi's intention was really to eliminate the use of banking and so we can have full control over our money at the comfort of our own. If the white paper contains something more about "investment", then people might suspect that this will just turn out to be another ponzi scheme which will not gain enough trust from it's potential users.

[Obari]

So how come it became an investment?

I believe you know Bitcoin  is a very volatile asset and as such, it can rise as well as fall and the ability for people to take advantages of either the rise or the fall, is what actually give rooms for people to earn money and since bitcoin  give the opportunity  for smart holders to make money from it through several ways, people now tend to buy  it at a low price when the price of bitcoin  has fallen and patiently wait when the price increases and then sell it off at a more higher price, making it an investment option where we buy low and sell  high and that's the aim of an investor, to make profit.

I have been trying to explain this for years now, that Bitcoin is not a form of investment but only a totally secure and distributed digital means of payment.

This is according to the white paper but you should know that everything evolves and that's why bitcoin  is doing but in price and usage and you shouldn't blame anyone who see it as an investment option especially knowing  the risk involved because bitcoin  has also provided and proven to be  an investment option  for  them.

[Bushdark]

I have been trying to explain this for years now, that Bitcoin is not a form of investment but only a totally secure and distributed digital means of payment. Just like in Satoshi's wp we talk about peer to peer payment but people see it as the form of investment that will make them rich, all wrong. Great thread

Exactly, as bitcoin became more and more volatile, people are also leaning towards bitcoin as their investment asset  more rather than a currency which can be used to pay for something or a currency which has no boundary that doesn't require a 3rd party facilities.
Satoshi's intention was really to eliminate the use of banking and so we can have full control over our money at the comfort of our own. If the white paper contains something more about "investment", then people might suspect that this will just turn out to be another ponzi scheme which will not gain enough trust from it's potential users.

Bitcoin is a digital currency and due to the volatility in the market, many persons see it as an investment because is can increase in price at anytime makimg those who have invested in it to make more profits as the price increases. The major aim was for it to be a digital currency that people can trade it at anytime for business transactions without the need of any third party to come between the trade. This alone had proved to us that what was written in the white paper was the solution to the banking sectors where customers are been forced to submit there KYC whether they want to make huge transactions.

[Yatsan]

Anything could be an investment as long as its market price has the potential to increase over a period of time. Gold and other minerals awere even used before as a mode of payment when currencies were not yet used as a system of payment. And same thing goes with Bitcoin. It just so happened that majority of its users saw Bitcoin's advantage for being an asset more as a currency because its market price is so volatile and yet moving upward in a bigger time frame which promotes hope for investors. Eitherway, as long as you are using this technology as per with your interest then it would be beneficial. Using this technology as a mode of payment is still far from the reality because there are still improvements which would make it possible.

[GreatArkansas]

(....)
Gold and other minerals awere even used before as a mode of payment when currencies were not yet used as a system of payment. And same thing goes with Bitcoin.
(...)

Exactly, Bitcoin is the best example of Gold in the early days when gold before in intended as used for payment and later on become an investment.
Gold became an investment for most people because what they know is the gold price just keeps increasing.
Then now, it's the same thing happening with Bitcoin. That's why I can say we are still in early days on Bitcoin same before with Gold.

[OcTradism]

Exactly, Bitcoin is the best example of Gold in the early days when gold before in intended as used for payment and later on become an investment.
Gold became an investment for most people because what they know is the gold price just keeps increasing.
Then now, it's the same thing happening with Bitcoin. That's why I can say we are still in early days on Bitcoin same before with Gold.

In early days, everything has to face with risk of death. If it can survive after many tests, many years, it will gain a solid role and will be used more. In early years, many people believed Bitcoin is scam but it is smaller now in percent and it shows a better acceptance of Bitcoin in community.

They can consider Bitcoin as their investment, their treasury or just a mean for trading but if they use Bitcoin, they believe it is not scam. It is a big change and dramatic improvement since 2009.

[Reatim]

This shows How powerful bitcoin users over the so called Normal Money and that is Fiat. while you have said that the main purpose of Satoshi creating Bitcoin is a Digital money to fight the government interfering in our daily money using yet the problem is each User or Holder of bitcoin has  power over the currency meaning we are free to do what we wanted not like in physical money that the law prevent us from keeping or hoarding fiat in our hands , in crypto we are the one who will decide what faith of holding .

[kro55]

Now I ask how come it deviated to being an investment?.

People didn't call it an investment, they turned it into an investment property. Right, bitcoin was initially created to be a decentralized currency not controlled by anyone. But it is we investors who have turned bitcoin into a speculative asset, all because of our behavior and usage. But honestly, if bitcoin is not an investment, it is not volatile and not profitable. I wonder how many people will use it? Are you sure you are getting into bitcoin because you need privacy, not profit?

Privacy is one of the key features of bitcoin if I am not mistaken. Sole ownership without third party interference was the sole aim where by one can have access to his or her fund and do what ever he or she wants to do with it without any trace or mingling with government or any third party organizations. You have control over you funds.
Everyone individual loves profiting so therefore would utilize every opportunity they have to make more profits. No one is exempted from that even you too would want to use every little avenue to make profit.

You answered your own question, everyone likes to make a profit, even the smallest profit, so we should not wonder why bitcoin is not considered as a payment method but instead into an investment. People are always talking about bitcoin features like privacy, anonymity, and giving us complete control over our assets. All of this undeniably sets bitcoin apart from all other assets, but like I said, is that attractive enough for everyone if bitcoin isn't profitable? Our society is putting money first, so I don't think we should be surprised when everything is turned into an investment.

[peter0425]

(....)
Gold and other minerals awere even used before as a mode of payment when currencies were not yet used as a system of payment. And same thing goes with Bitcoin.
(...)

Exactly, Bitcoin is the best example of Gold in the early days when gold before in intended as used for payment and later on become an investment.
Gold became an investment for most people because what they know is the gold price just keeps increasing.
Then now, it's the same thing happening with Bitcoin. That's why I can say we are still in early days on Bitcoin same before with Gold.

OP is just looking to what is the initial reason why Satoshi Nakamoto created bitcoin but not for the long term effect , Even Fiat is being Held by others as investment when the government wanted us to use this for circulation.

and also what is the difference from the banks that Holds your money when you deposit it there? why not call also the bankers for Fiats use?

[el kaka22]

It is both a money and an investment at the same time. I know this is hard to understand for some people but that is how it is. I believe that the best thing to do right now is to keep getting as much bitcoin as you possibly could get. I believe that if we do the right thing then we are going to end up with a profit one way or another.

It may not be an easy decision to buy and invest into bitcoin but at least you could do that, and at the same time if you ever want to then you could pay stuff with crypto as well. This makes it like the greatest investment ever, you can't buy stuff with stocks or gold, it's rare and very very unique situation, usually you can't, and you can't invest into dollar because it loses value over time. So, bitcoin is far better than any of them.

[Ever-young]

Because money could also be considered as investment, and as a digital money this made it qualified to be called an investment, since it has the ability to increase wealth, and could be purchased and hold as a property, which could be used as money to buy anything and pay for some services between parties who knows about in a country were it's been accepted.

[Razmirraz]

The main purpose of creating Bitcoin as a medium of exchange for transactions carried out online, so in general Bitcoin is a digital currency, people consider Bitcoin as an Investment tool because of the speculative belief that Bitcoin will rise in the future. The presence of Bitcoin has made it easy to make transactions with anyone without a third party managing their circulation. That's right, as explained in the Bitcoin White Paper, Satoshi introduced Bitcoin as a decentralized digital currency. Then after all people accept Bitcoin on various digital platforms, it finally opens the way to be used as an investment asset because the price will increase in the future.

[Blitzboy]

Philosophically, the public's understanding of an invention typically trumps the inventor's. It's not just Bitcoin. Social media was meant to connect people, but it also spreads misinformation and political propaganda. When managed for a few, this divergence from the original aim produces anger and envy. Bitcoin's transformation from currency to investment illustrates this. Satoshi Nakamoto's peer-to-peer electronic payment system has been overshadowed by speculation and "get rich quick" schemes. Don't rush to judgement. Bitcoin investment has increased adoption, worldwide awareness, and technology. Participating in these market dynamics is fun. Who knows, Satoshi's vision may be closer in the future. The Bitcoin community can influence that future.

[Iranus]

... and at the same time if you ever want to then you could pay stuff with crypto as well. This makes it like the greatest investment ever, you can't buy stuff with stocks or gold, it's rare and very very unique situation, usually you can't, and you can't invest into dollar because it loses value over time. So, bitcoin is far better than any of them.

I don't think this is true, I don't think you can buy anything with cryptocurrencies, specifically bitcoin. So far, not many countries or many stores accept bitcoin as a payment method, and that is unlikely to become widespread in the future. Governments are accepting bitcoin, but they are treating it as a commodity, an asset, it is tough to accept a volatile asset as a method of payment.

I know that bitcoin has not gone the way Satoshi had planned, but it is a good thing that it is becoming an investment. Since it is still bringing so many benefits to us, many people have changed their lives thanks to bitcoin. So I don't see anything wrong with it being an investment.

[aoluain]

The sole reason why bitcoin was invented was to serve the purpose of digital money for which it was clearly stated on the white paper by Satoshi Nakamoto as captured below by quote;

Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System.

  Bitcoin White Paper

Bitcoin still is a Peer-to-Peer electronic cash system!

It is also an investment, a store of value, a borderless and permissionless transfer of wealth!

I'm sure Satoshi knew what the possible future would be for Bitcoin purely based
on the fact that it had limited supply and was essentially  deflationary.

There are also a lot of people who are quite happy to ignore the main reason Bitcoin was
invented and are happy to use Bitcoin as an investment while letting a third party hold the
Bitcoin they think they own.

Bitcoin offers the opportunity for self custody secure wealth storage.

[Hispo]

I think that what has happened is quite similar from we see in countries and societies which suffer from high inflation. People when see their currency starts to decline, they move their money onto more stable assets or even assets which can earn value through time against the currency who is expected to decline in value.

People still see Bitcoin as a medium to transfer value, but the expectation of decreasing circulating coins and the way FIAT has behaved this latest years has led people to speculate against the value of USD and other currencies against the BTC. It is a matter of greed vs fear, I am almost sure satoshi knew something like this would happen because of the floating nature of the price, but perhaps he did not realize how big the volume of transactions was going to be.