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Author Topic: If bitcoin according to Satoshi is digital money then why call it investment.  (Read 611 times)
PeRo
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July 13, 2023, 12:12:24 PM
 #61

That's what happens when something starts to be used in a way that wasn't originally intended. You can read everywhere that Bitcoin is intended to be a digital currency with a decentralized system and to be used like that but the price fluctuations made it to be more of an asset to people who bought it and now it is mostly used as an investment asset. Even though that probably wasn't Satoshi's intention, I think it's better for Bitcoin to be used like that since it made Bitcoin have the price and value it has now.

Maybe we wouldn't get this far with Bitcoin and who knows if it would stick around, but anyway I think you should just call Bitcoin as however you see it in your eyes as everyone uses it differently and has their own opinion on it.

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CryptSafe (OP)
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July 13, 2023, 12:52:09 PM
 #62


The sole reason why bitcoin was invented was to serve the purpose of digital money for which it was clearly stated on the white paper by Satoshi Nakamoto as captured below by quote;

Quote
Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System.
  Bitcoin White Paper



Bitcoin still is a Peer-to-Peer electronic cash system!

Bitcoin offers the opportunity for self custody secure wealth storage.

No doubt bitcoin still remains a peer2peer electronic cash system and very much active as many individuals and businesses adopted the payment system into the routine. This has called for financial self custody as one does not really to go through the banks or involve a third party for transaction purposes. The issue of high fee transaction charges by the banking institutions have been wiped out. Monitoring of ones financial engagement been kept out of third party anonymously. One can comfortably exchange their fiat into bitcoin as a value for their wealth storage and measurement.

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AicecreaME
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July 13, 2023, 03:28:53 PM
 #63

According to google

Quote
An asset is something that has value and can be sold for a profit. An investment, on the other hand, is something that you expect will generate a return in the future.

In short, Bitcoin is an asset, in my opinion since it has already a value and can be sold whenever you want. So let's make an example for an investment, a business is an investment because it doesn't have any value when you just started it, it doesn't give you any income unless you're managing it correctly which gives your business a value in the long term.

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July 13, 2023, 03:46:18 PM
 #64

Maybe we wouldn't get this far with Bitcoin and who knows if it would stick around, but anyway I think you should just call Bitcoin as however you see it in your eyes as everyone uses it differently and has their own opinion on it.
Because many people have no need for it as currency yet, they choose to use it for investment because that is the function that it can perform for them at the moment. It does not mean that tomorrow it will not be used as currency when it becomes more accepted. Had bitcoins not had the function of being able to serve as investment, Many people would not have been interested in it since it is very illegal in some places and they would have had nothing to benefit from risking breaking the law. 

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July 13, 2023, 04:44:21 PM
 #65

~Snip
No doubt bitcoin still remains a peer2peer electronic cash system and very much active as many individuals and businesses adopted the payment system into the routine. This has called for financial self custody as one does not really to go through the banks or involve a third party for transaction purposes. The issue of high fee transaction charges by the banking institutions have been wiped out. Monitoring of ones financial engagement been kept out of third party anonymously. One can comfortably exchange their fiat into bitcoin as a value for their wealth storage and measurement.
According to its basic idea, bitcoin is a currency. Bitcoin had no value when it was introduced, but when it started gaining use cases and demand it started gaining value. Its value has gotten higher over time due to increased demand and limited supply, but its price volatility has allowed many people to make it an investment and trading asset.

It doesn't matter what someone uses bitcoin for, it is still a tender that shares the same characteristics as any other currency. It's just that bitcoin does not have a physical form and bitcoin is not controlled by anyone including the government.

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July 13, 2023, 06:30:28 PM
 #66

Bitcoin as a medium of exchange makes it on par as digital currency and if you think it's wrong as an investment think about the halving and also the miners, you will understand that Bitcoin is designed to create value for itself with time, the lower it's number the more scarcity is introduce and normally the value will keeps growing, it's simple, I accept Bitcoin as 3 in 1 capable digital currency.

1. Store of value
2. Medium of exchange.
3. Decentralized.
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July 13, 2023, 06:40:11 PM
 #67

Because gradually people can't deny that bitcoin meets the criteria as an investment asset, and is proven by several success stories of bitcoiners in their investment journey. Even if you personally think otherwise, it's actually not a problem, basically bitcoin still doesn't violate the principle of being a payment instrument for anyone who thinks it's valuable.

Bitcoin is consider as an investment asset because of its volatile nature if it persists in a constant value then no body will consider it as an investment asset. Bitcoin is used both as a payment and investment asset but as a payment method it is only understandable by those who have some knowledge about it and in that area where there is a fast Internet.

Volatility is sometimes consider as risky but it is also beneficial in terms of buying and selling because at higher price one cannot buy it and at lower price no one will be in desire to sell it so both are beneficial and because of this unstability people demands more for bitcoin investment.









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July 13, 2023, 06:48:56 PM
 #68

Satoshi created bitcoin as a very innovative money or means of payment, it is decentralized and secure. Bitcoin has also been used as a means of payment either legally or illegally by most of its users. Not all countries legalize bitcoin as a means of payment, but most legalize bitcoin for trading.

I can say that I don't consider bitcoin as a means of payment because I can't legally use it in my country, so bitcoin is an investment asset or a high-value and tradable asset.

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July 13, 2023, 07:10:30 PM
 #69

~Snip
No doubt bitcoin still remains a peer2peer electronic cash system and very much active as many individuals and businesses adopted the payment system into the routine. This has called for financial self custody as one does not really to go through the banks or involve a third party for transaction purposes. The issue of high fee transaction charges by the banking institutions have been wiped out. Monitoring of ones financial engagement been kept out of third party anonymously. One can comfortably exchange their fiat into bitcoin as a value for their wealth storage and measurement.

According to its basic idea, bitcoin is a currency. Bitcoin had no value when it was introduced, but when it started gaining use cases and demand it started gaining value. Its value has gotten higher over time due to increased demand and limited supply, but its price volatility has allowed many people to make it an investment and trading asset.

You are absolutely right mate. This is amongst other reasons why  bitcoin became the investment option of holders. The constant growth from the very beginning made it worth sort after. The speed is insurmountable and  notwithstanding, it took the world by surprise and here it is today. This far it has come, it has made millionaires and in that cause it is treasured as an asset and seen as digital gold because of it's limited supply, utility value and time of invention.

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July 13, 2023, 07:29:52 PM
 #70

The world has freedom of speech and you can call Bitcoin as anything you want in your vision.

You can call it as it is, Bitcoin but you can call it as a shitcoin, a virtual currency, digital currency or even a scam currency.
If you buy it and hold it as an asset, you will call it as a store of value, for your investment.
If you use it at a gambling site, you will call it as a gambling currency.
You use bitcoin in your own ways and other people use their bitcoins in their ways which can be different than yours.

It can be called as The Internet of money
or as a Bitcoin standard.

Whatever you call it, others call it, Bitcoin is Bitcoin.
You’re right mate. Bitcoin is Bitcoin no matter what people call it. However, for me bitcoin is also an investment because it grows its value and in return it will provide us profits or income that we can also used to invest aside from bitcoin. The fact that bitcoin is a store of value then people can freely call it as an investment. And despite of its highly volatile price, bitcoin remains a good and profitable investment as it is.

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July 13, 2023, 07:30:53 PM
 #71

That's what happens when something starts to be used in a way that wasn't originally intended. You can read everywhere that Bitcoin is intended to be a digital currency with a decentralized system and to be used like that but the price fluctuations made it to be more of an asset to people who bought it and now it is mostly used as an investment asset. Even though that probably wasn't Satoshi's intention, I think it's better for Bitcoin to be used like that since it made Bitcoin have the price and value it has now.

Maybe we wouldn't get this far with Bitcoin and who knows if it would stick around, but anyway I think you should just call Bitcoin as however you see it in your eyes as everyone uses it differently and has their own opinion on it.

Satoshi tried to make a decentralized form of money, but you can't control free market price. This is not something Satoshi could have predicted.
He wanted people to use bitcoin the way they want and that's what happened, so I doubt that he'd be disappointed by the way things have turned out.

Bitcoin has a number of features and characteristics. If someone says it can be only money and a payment system, but not a store of value, or an investment, he makes no sense to me.

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July 13, 2023, 08:04:43 PM
 #72

Yes,  Bitcoin was created to be a digital currency but surpassed its purpose of creation and become an investment opportunity because of its deflationary nature which made it a store of value or a safe haven for investors as it increases over time hence investors now saw it as an investment asset class due to its various use cases and thus appreciates or adds value as time progresses.

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July 13, 2023, 08:41:56 PM
 #73

I know you must be wondering what's up with my topic right? I too was having a thought over this and I  felt I should bring it here for discussion so we all can share our own various opinions.

We have had this discussion in the past on the forum, I can remember writing on a topic that had similar questions. Bitcoin is both an assets and a currency. Satoshi wanted Bitcoin to become a currency that's used for payment but that haven't been achieved fully globally as it's yet to recognized globally as a currency. We're then left to use Bitcoin as an assets that's used to multiply our money  and that's why many individual are using it as an investment.

Bitcoin is been known globally as an investment that gives investor huge return when they make investment in Bitcoin that's why everyone is now referring to Bitcoin as an investment. This isn't so much of a bad thing because it gives value to Bitcoin and reputation.



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July 13, 2023, 08:59:36 PM
 #74

Bitcoin will always be an investment because of its limitless value. As long as bitcoin price is not fixed, and it creates more chances of price increase, then it will always be an asset or an investment. However, we can always use bitcoin as a digital money once it’s used as a payment mode, or an investment once people prefer to keep it and expect good store of value. Whatever it is, that fact that people are still in profits with bitcoin, bitcoin will always be a forum of business or investment.

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July 13, 2023, 09:34:03 PM
 #75

Now I ask how come it deviated to being an investment?.


People didn't call it an investment, they turned it into an investment property. Right, bitcoin was initially created to be a decentralized currency not controlled by anyone. But it is we investors who have turned bitcoin into a speculative asset, all because of our behavior and usage. But honestly, if bitcoin is not an investment, it is not volatile and not profitable. I wonder how many people will use it? Are you sure you are getting into bitcoin because you need privacy, not profit?
Bitcoin is originally designed as a digital currency but since it’s adoption is still far from realization, then people use it as an investment instead because of its highly fluctuated price. And with volatility comes high chances to earn once it’s value reaches an all time high. That’s why as long as it has a volatile and unpredictable price, people will still be seeing it as a good investment.

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July 13, 2023, 09:59:56 PM
 #76

Now I ask how come it deviated to being an investment?.


People didn't call it an investment, they turned it into an investment property. Right, bitcoin was initially created to be a decentralized currency not controlled by anyone. But it is we investors who have turned bitcoin into a speculative asset, all because of our behavior and usage. But honestly, if bitcoin is not an investment, it is not volatile and not profitable. I wonder how many people will use it? Are you sure you are getting into bitcoin because you need privacy, not profit?
Bitcoin is originally designed as a digital currency but since it’s adoption is still far from realization, then people use it as an investment instead because of its highly fluctuated price. And with volatility comes high chances to earn once it’s value reaches an all time high. That’s why as long as it has a volatile and unpredictable price, people will still be seeing it as a good investment.
^ That is what we called, (Store of Value)
Many people have seen this potential because when it comes to more adoption the price will grow up due to the limited supply and this potential has been seen by many others to generate returns. However, while considered as an investment, it still functions as a digital currency and each of us can use BTC for transactions, just like traditional money.
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July 13, 2023, 10:06:48 PM
 #77

Bitcoin is a currency first, then an investment. There's no point trying to separate it. Something can be an investment and a currency.

If I decide to buy a large sum of money in euros today for the price it is now and decide to save it for a long period with the hope that the price would appreciate,  that makes the euros in my account an investment, and at the same time, it's still a currency.
Using the Euro as an investment doesn't make it lose its identity as a currency, so Bitcoin should not be different.

Bitcoin doesn't have to be one and not the other. How can something be a currency if it's not a store of value? Gold and fiat are all seen and used as a store of value, currencies, and also investments, the same should be applied to Bitcoin if we want its adoption to be effective. 

R


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Mr.suevie
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July 13, 2023, 10:34:09 PM
 #78

I would like to think that one thing can actually serve two or purposes depending on how the users deem it fit for him to use. But its clear that bitcoin was actually intended for financial freedom purpose whether its original plan was as a digital money or decentralized crypto its still doesn't close the fact that bitcoin over the year has gain more and serve more purpose for its consumption and adoption.

The ability for BTC acting as a store of value makes it easy for the mass public to use it as an investment means and also term it majorly on matters concerning investment because everyone wants something that can actually generate them some little profits instead of eating their cash e.g saving money in the bank(value depreciates over time).

R


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fuguebtc
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July 14, 2023, 10:18:03 AM
 #79

Now I ask how come it deviated to being an investment?.


People didn't call it an investment, they turned it into an investment property. Right, bitcoin was initially created to be a decentralized currency not controlled by anyone. But it is we investors who have turned bitcoin into a speculative asset, all because of our behavior and usage. But honestly, if bitcoin is not an investment, it is not volatile and not profitable. I wonder how many people will use it? Are you sure you are getting into bitcoin because you need privacy, not profit?
Bitcoin is originally designed as a digital currency but since it’s adoption is still far from realization, then people use it as an investment instead because of its highly fluctuated price. And with volatility comes high chances to earn once it’s value reaches an all time high. That’s why as long as it has a volatile and unpredictable price, people will still be seeing it as a good investment.

Do you mean the reason bitcoin became an investment is because it wasn't widely accepted? And if it is widely adopted in the future, will it become a currency? I don't think that is the cause.
How could bitcoin be volatile without human intervention? So the fact that bitcoin becomes an investment is due to our need and no other reason because our need to make money is greater than any other need in life. If bitcoin is stable and unprofitable, will you continue to hold it, or will you find an alternative investment?

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Blitzboy
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July 14, 2023, 12:51:37 PM
 #80

I would like to think that one thing can actually serve two or purposes depending on how the users deem it fit for him to use. But its clear that bitcoin was actually intended for financial freedom purpose whether its original plan was as a digital money or decentralized crypto its still doesn't close the fact that bitcoin over the year has gain more and serve more purpose for its consumption and adoption.

The ability for BTC acting as a store of value makes it easy for the mass public to use it as an investment means and also term it majorly on matters concerning investment because everyone wants something that can actually generate them some little profits instead of eating their cash e.g saving money in the bank(value depreciates over time).
Bitcoin's versatility is impressive. It has changed dramatically from a digital payment system to an investment asset. Power comes with responsibility. We're all hoarding Bitcoins, but are we deviating from its intended purpose?

Bitcoin's whitepaper proposed decentralized peer-to-peer electronic cash. It enabled trustless financial transactions. Are we losing that vision as it becomes more speculative? Allowing it to become an elite's game promotes wealth inequality?

That doesnt diminish its value. Like any asset, its value might change. Great benefits may have drawbacks. Bitcoin, despite its brilliance, isnt immune to market forces.

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