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Author Topic: Sweep/import private key feature request  (Read 9051 times)
paraipan
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January 25, 2012, 12:51:13 PM
 #101

I was really looking forward to the import feature in bitcoind (don't care about sweep). Too bad the developers decided to be nanny for us.

yeah lots of great features and improvements left alone for the supposedly ultimate feature... p2sh (multi redeem) or what it's name is

we need sweep now, fast initial blockchain download and lots more. I'm really disappointed atm  Cry

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Gavin Andresen
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January 25, 2012, 05:50:20 PM
 #102

I was really looking forward to the import feature in bitcoind (don't care about sweep). Too bad the developers decided to be nanny for us.

Huh?  GIT HEAD bitcoind supports import private key functionality:
Code:
importprivkey <bitcoinprivkey> {label}

Whether or not that's ever supported by the GUI is a different issue, and there I think we SHOULD be more concerned about people using the GUI shooting themselves in their feet.


How often do you get the chance to work on a potentially world-changing project?
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January 25, 2012, 05:55:53 PM
 #103

yeah lots of great features and improvements left alone for the supposedly ultimate feature... p2sh (multi redeem) or what it's name is

we need sweep now, fast initial blockchain download and lots more. I'm really disappointed atm  Cry

I've been very clear about my top development priorities:

1. Network stability: DoS threats, scaling-up issues, etc.
2. Wallet security/backup.

I see everything else as lower priority; I want users to be confident that their bitcoins can't get stolen even if they slip up and open an attachment in Outlook that the aughtn't have opened before I want a downloads-the-entire-blockchain-in-10-seconds client with all sorts of other bells and whistles.


How often do you get the chance to work on a potentially world-changing project?
etotheipi
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January 25, 2012, 06:19:40 PM
 #104

Armory is just about ready for alpha, I just need a few more folks to help test.  All core features I envisioned for the first release are there -- including the sweep/import functionality, as discussed earlier in this thread.  It is available only in "Advanced" and "Developer" usermodes.  Standard users will not be able to import or sweep (though sweeping might be okay, but I haven't separated the dialogs yet).

Pursuant to Gavin's warnings, Armory really only works once the Satoshi client is sync'd with the network, so that particular warning is not relevant to Armory.  The other thing is, Armory does a full scan of the blockchain for the new key, immediately.  It takes less than a second to do a full scan since it's full-RAM.  Even when I do HDD-based blockchain, the scan is about 20s (which is completely reasonable).  It will display the transactions on the wallet ledger by blockheader time.  You can examine the ledger for the individual address by double-clicking it in the wallet-properties/address-list dialog.

Yes, there could be some confusion if a user imports a key already in their satoshi wallet.    This is one reason I am not encouraging Satoshi->Armory wallet conversions (and have not supplied any function for doing it).  I would really prefer users only import new keys.  Similarly, Armory provides a warning if the key you are importing is already in one of your other wallets.  It makes sure that you have the ability to shoot yourself in the foot if you want to, but help you avoid it if that wasn't your intention.

Most importantly, everything is well-described in Armory.  Short descriptions on screen, mouse-over tooltips and additional popups to explain what you are doing. All based on the discussions in this thread.  So thanks!  

Please help test it!  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=56424 . Hell, just use it!  If you want to manage masses of imported keys, there is no better way than using Armory, just be aware of the risks mentioned throughout this thread.  Even if you don't want to use it as your main client, you can use it simply for sweeping (it will sweep into your Armory wallet, but you can send it to your Satoshi wallet as soon as it gets 1 confirmation).

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etotheipi
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January 25, 2012, 06:39:28 PM
 #105

P.S. - What's the chance that Casascius would payout some of his bounty for Armory's import&sweep feature?   I recognize Armory isn't a 100% solution until I bring down the memory requirements, but there's no doubt that I created a client with the functionality, fully tested and easy-to-use.   Hell, I even implemented mini-private key format in the dialog, just so that physical bitcoins can be redeemed!  (that was his motivation for the bounty, wasn't it?)


Founder and CEO of Armory Technologies, Inc.
Armory Bitcoin Wallet: Bringing cold storage to the average user!
Only use Armory software signed by the Armory Offline Signing Key (0x98832223)

Please donate to the Armory project by clicking here!    (or donate directly via 1QBDLYTDFHHZAABYSKGKPWKLSXZWCCJQBX -- yes, it's a real address!)
casascius
Mike Caldwell
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January 25, 2012, 06:51:21 PM
 #106

P.S. - What's the chance that Casascius would payout some of his bounty for Armory's import&sweep feature?   I recognize Armory isn't a 100% solution until I bring down the memory requirements, but there's no doubt that I created a client with the functionality, fully tested and easy-to-use.   Hell, I even implemented mini-private key format in the dialog, just so that physical bitcoins can be redeemed!  (that was his motivation for the bounty, wasn't it?)



Very damn good to say the least.  Please accept an immediate 10BTC silver round from me for your efforts thus far.  I will PM you a coupon code.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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January 25, 2012, 08:31:09 PM
 #107

Huh?  GIT HEAD bitcoind supports import private key functionality:
Code:
importprivkey <bitcoinprivkey> {label}

This being present on the GUI is of absolutely no importance to me... I had noticed this in HEAD, but I never checked if the official release has this through RPC or not.

But is it in to stay Gavin? I may finally move my web help libs to use a non patched client Smiley
casascius
Mike Caldwell
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January 25, 2012, 08:51:37 PM
 #108

Huh?  GIT HEAD bitcoind supports import private key functionality:
Code:
importprivkey <bitcoinprivkey> {label}

This being present on the GUI is of absolutely no importance to me... I had noticed this in HEAD, but I never checked if the official release has this through RPC or not.

But is it in to stay Gavin? I may finally move my web help libs to use a non patched client Smiley

Possibly importantly, how long does this function take to run.  If it requires a complete scan of the block chain, the request will take quite a few minutes to run.  I've been suggesting for quite a while there needs to be the option of an index built on bitcoin address as a key field, so the import/sweep can be done in O(log n) time with respect to the size of block chain rather than O(n).

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
paraipan
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January 25, 2012, 10:45:43 PM
 #109

yeah lots of great features and improvements left alone for the supposedly ultimate feature... p2sh (multi redeem) or what it's name is

we need sweep now, fast initial blockchain download and lots more. I'm really disappointed atm  Cry

I've been very clear about my top development priorities:

1. Network stability: DoS threats, scaling-up issues, etc.
2. Wallet security/backup.

I see everything else as lower priority; I want users to be confident that their bitcoins can't get stolen even if they slip up and open an attachment in Outlook that the aughtn't have opened before I want a downloads-the-entire-blockchain-in-10-seconds client with all sorts of other bells and whistles.



got that, only thing is people want GUI features, they are actually begging to be implemented, so please try listening them for a moment. I see the protocol and the network as a whole pretty stable and redundant, the scaling could have some issues but not much of a problem given that you're a great coder and have a team that helps you allot. I've still got to see the 4mb/year blockchain proposed by Satoshi in his paper. Imagine the surprise when i downloaded it for the first time, ~750mb Smiley

Most of us are superficial, i learned that pretty fast, but i think you already know it. Try let them feel good with the project and collaborate in the base client or else you will see others take advantage pretty fast and that could be a real problem. It doesn't cost you nothing, the people get their "bells and whistles" and you get to follow your project agenda allot more easier not having to worry for people migrating to other clients for that reason.

If you strangle the project you don't win nothing exactly the opposite, you lose control. I want "bells and whistles" too and don't want to use some extra client to have that. People propose you things every day and i've seen nice pull requests sum up on git for months without being merged. The only reason i keep being around is that bitcoin is backed by the people and them using it, so if you manage to scatter the "pack" bitcoin would be valueless. You don't want that, right ?

We can easily have all the features we want with all the coders lining up with their contributions, so please don't be "nanny" for us and let the experiment go forward. Let them shot in their foots if that is what it takes to learn when they have to pull the trigger. Put all the warnings you need, disclaimers and such and let them "pimp it", while not touching the protocol.

Sorry for being such harsh but is the f...ng truth. I will be around.

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January 25, 2012, 11:04:46 PM
 #110

P.S. - What's the chance that Casascius would payout some of his bounty for Armory's import&sweep feature?   I recognize Armory isn't a 100% solution until I bring down the memory requirements, but there's no doubt that I created a client with the functionality, fully tested and easy-to-use.   Hell, I even implemented mini-private key format in the dialog, just so that physical bitcoins can be redeemed!  (that was his motivation for the bounty, wasn't it?)


Just for the record, my motivation for seeing private key sweep in the Satoshi client is not in support of physical bitcoins - it's support for how I view Bitcoin should be used by average computer-illiterate joes.  The whole physical bitcoin project is intended as a promotion of bitcoin and a methodology for using it - part of why you see me trying to give the whole business away and enable people to compete with me.

Supporting private key sweep in the Satoshi client will make it very easy for websites to accept private keys as payment, ultimately in the hope that someone can buy Bitcoins at retail and use them directly at a merchant like a gift card, bypassing need for wallets and clients entirely.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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January 25, 2012, 11:32:14 PM
 #111

I mostly agree with paraipan.  I really believe that the Satoshi client should be expanding in both directions.  I think Bitcoin's adoption is going to suffer if security-related upgrades are 100% priority for the next X years.  I really think there needs to be "visible" progress, too:  eye-candy, new core features, more options/customizability, etc.  Without it, the project starts to look stale.  Bitcoin-Qt was a nice change, but it didn't introduce any new features.  Users have no reason to get excited about new releases.

I am not suggesting that what you are doing is in any way, not important.  I believe what you're doing is critical, and I'm so glad someone is doing it.  But most other (potential) users are very shallow, and get bored easily.  I strongly believe that at least a little effort should be spent paying attention to feel-good upgrades that all users can use.  I can say that because I agree with paraipan that the network has been around for a while, and in the short-term these security issues will not make or break the network.  But wider user adoption will most definitely make the network, and I believe that the development effort should be well-rounded in this regard.

Armory was my response to seeing this over the last year.  I desperately wanted these features, I know other users desperately wanted these features, and I was in a perfect position to do it.  While I surely enjoy the attention that my monopoly on these features will get me, I'm hoping that the competition will inspire the core Bitcoin devs to try to expand the features of the Satoshi client -- all new users are going to end up at bitcoin.org, not the "Alternative Clients" sub-forum of bitcointalk.org.  

It might be a different story, if the satoshi client was tailored more as as a rock-solid backend for third-party software to leverage (like Armory is doing right now), and focus bitcoin.org on promoting other projects that provide the variety of functionality that users want (Armory, Electrum, Bitcoinj, Intersango, android/iphone apps, etc).   But right now, the Satoshi client alone represents "Bitcoin," and thus I think it needs broader range of development efforts.

Founder and CEO of Armory Technologies, Inc.
Armory Bitcoin Wallet: Bringing cold storage to the average user!
Only use Armory software signed by the Armory Offline Signing Key (0x98832223)

Please donate to the Armory project by clicking here!    (or donate directly via 1QBDLYTDFHHZAABYSKGKPWKLSXZWCCJQBX -- yes, it's a real address!)
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January 26, 2012, 08:07:12 AM
 #112


Huh?  GIT HEAD bitcoind supports import private key functionality:
Code:
importprivkey <bitcoinprivkey> {label}

I should have checked that before talking, my apologies. Smiley

Quote
Whether or not that's ever supported by the GUI is a different issue, and there I think we SHOULD be more concerned about people using the GUI shooting themselves in their feet.

I agree.
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January 28, 2012, 01:06:15 AM
 #113

P.S. - What's the chance that Casascius would payout some of his bounty for Armory's import&sweep feature?   I recognize Armory isn't a 100% solution until I bring down the memory requirements, but there's no doubt that I created a client with the functionality, fully tested and easy-to-use.   Hell, I even implemented mini-private key format in the dialog, just so that physical bitcoins can be redeemed!  (that was his motivation for the bounty, wasn't it?)



Very damn good to say the least.  Please accept an immediate 10BTC silver round from me for your efforts thus far.  I will PM you a coupon code.

Quoting this for epicness!  Good looking out, Casascius. And nice work on Armory, Etotheipi!

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
etotheipi
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February 07, 2012, 03:58:44 AM
 #114

I want to brag that not only did I just release Armory Alpha, but I bought a few Casascius bitcoins (because they're cool), and just peeled off one of the holograms on a 1 BTC coin and swept it using Armory.  It works!  I guess it would've been a good idea to take a screenshot... d'oh!

Also, the 10 BTC rounds are damned sexy.  They're expensive (20 BTC for a 10 BTC coin), but they're also an ounce of solid silver, and come in a nice jewelry box with protective case.  Even if BTC crashes, it's about $35 worth of silver (like a dual investment!)


Founder and CEO of Armory Technologies, Inc.
Armory Bitcoin Wallet: Bringing cold storage to the average user!
Only use Armory software signed by the Armory Offline Signing Key (0x98832223)

Please donate to the Armory project by clicking here!    (or donate directly via 1QBDLYTDFHHZAABYSKGKPWKLSXZWCCJQBX -- yes, it's a real address!)
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February 09, 2012, 10:47:35 AM
 #115

I was really looking forward to the import feature in bitcoind (don't care about sweep). Too bad the developers decided to be nanny for us.

Huh?  GIT HEAD bitcoind supports import private key functionality:
Code:
importprivkey <bitcoinprivkey> {label}

I just took a look, and it turns out there are 6 new RPC commands in the GIT HEAD:

Code:
addmultisigaddress <nrequired> <'["key","key"]'> [account]
dumpprivkey <bitcoinaddress>
getblock <hash>
getblockhash <index>
getmininginfo
importprivkey <bitcoinprivkey> [label]

Just FYI.

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