LoyceV
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Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
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July 24, 2023, 01:37:41 PM Last edit: July 26, 2023, 09:09:00 AM by LoyceV |
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Except that is not actually proof of anything. It is hope that A) I don't know the private key, which cannot be proven Although technically correct, it's at the same level as being unable to prove any given Bitcoin address is secure. It's safe to assume neither you or me will ever know the private key to for instance 1oeLeoxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxzqxUMm. B) no one will ever know the private key, which also cannot be proven. Just like you can't prove nobody will ever reproduce your private keys. You can't prove it, but you know it will never happen anyway. If you want a proof of burn, then use OP_RETURN. Still, that's less obvious to the average user. Seeing 1CounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXUWLpVr on a block explorer makes it instantly clear how much Bitcoin was burned wasted. OP_RETURN is less obvious to find.
Maybe we should call it "proof of waste" instead of "proof of burn".
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ranochigo
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Still, that's less obvious to the average user. Seeing 1CounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXUWLpVr on a block explorer makes it instantly clear how much Bitcoin was burned wasted. OP_RETURN is less obvious to find.
Actually, still somewhat easy. If you were to simplify it, Bitcoin addresses are merely hashes of script which defines the spending conditions. They are indexed after evaluating each transaction for the script in their output before tabulating and indexing them. If the usecase is big enough, most explorers would index and keep track of them. Some blockexplorers have indexed them as well: https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/address/d-30b1cfee5f36b0282531ab681452c910.
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. .HUGE. | | | | | | █▀▀▀▀ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █▄▄▄▄ | ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ . CASINO & SPORTSBOOK ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ | ▀▀▀▀█ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ ▄▄▄▄█ | | |
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o_e_l_e_o
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July 26, 2023, 08:21:46 AM |
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You can't prove it, but you know it will never happen anyway. Correct. You can't prove it, so calling it a "proof of burn" is misleading. Coins in burn addresses are not provably burned. Coins in OP_RETURN outputs are. Still, that's less obvious to the average user. Seeing 1CounterpartyXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXUWLpVr on a block explorer makes it instantly clear how much Bitcoin was burned wasted. OP_RETURN is less obvious to find. I disagree. If a users looks at this transaction ( https://mempool.space/tx/d83973b11443e6151ef62f5644e92599c9ec9824b0fc128eeee64903972f2c98), they see coins being sent to a funny looking address, but an address nonetheless. I wouldn't expect a newbie to know that such an address is likely unspendable. Conversely, if they look at this transaction ( https://mempool.space/tx/af0bfe175f4e04a6958984534b4e98a45fd2ea227d321c9c50448ab5250fdcf1), they see coins being sent to something called OP_RETURN which is very clearly not an address. It is much more obvious that something unusual has happened to these coins which means they can't be spent.
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LoyceV
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Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
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July 26, 2023, 09:11:57 AM |
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I knew that, but didn't realize you can view all transactions to the same OP_RETURN "address" that way too. I wouldn't expect a newbie to know that such an address is likely unspendable. True, but I wouldn't expect a Newbie to be looking for such addresses in the first place. Then again, Newbies have been dragged into all kinds of pump and dump schemes. Counterparty was one of those: at current value, people burned $62 million worth of Bitcoin for an altcoin that now only has a $9 million market cap. There's no doubt someone who got rich from it though. Now all that's missing is a vanity-OP_RETURN
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o_e_l_e_o
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July 26, 2023, 10:47:12 AM |
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Now all that's missing is a vanity-OP_RETURN I mean, surely any OP_RETURN output can be a vanity output given that you can encode any arbitrary data you want in it. It's just a case of decoding the script in to ASCII characters, which is really no different to when we encode the script to Base58 or Base32 to generate a vanity address. For example, https://mempool.space/tx/27f9a5ddbee89c7471c4fc6456599d923d60e7d8d83e4ba51bd688f72e3baeca. Counterparty could just have easily had people send coins to an OP_RETURN output called "Counterparty".
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Agbe
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July 26, 2023, 05:23:40 PM |
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I don't know how the bitcoin addresses are generated but I believe such thing will never happen and I am saying it from the area of Mobile and bank account numbers generation. In Mobile phone number, if you mistakenly send credit to the number that has not been generated, the credit wouldn't go and this applicable to bank account number, if you send money to an account number that has not been generated, the money will never enter the account number, and the sender bank will even notify you that the account is invalid. But I don't know of bitcoin address, and I don't think the bitcoin will enter the ungenerated address. Someone should put into action and tell us the outcome
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LoyceV
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Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
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July 26, 2023, 05:36:25 PM |
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I don't know how the bitcoin addresses are generated How did you earn 1100 Merit on Bitcointalk without knowing the basics of Bitcoin? But I don't know of bitcoin address, and I don't think the bitcoin will enter the ungenerated address. Bitcoin is electronic cash. If you send cash to a random destination, it will stay there until someone finds it.
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Agbe
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July 26, 2023, 05:42:59 PM |
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I don't know how the bitcoin addresses are generated How did you earn 1100 Merit on Bitcointalk without knowing the basics of Bitcoin? You didn't get me, I am not talking about the basic but the process of encoding the addresses which is what I am saying that I don't know how it works because I am not a programmer. Creating of wallet and having the address is not what I mean, but how the programmers generate the addresses is what I am trying to say. Bitcoin is electronic cash. If you send cash to a random destination, it will stay there until someone finds it.
Yes I don't know that bitcoin can stay in the ungenerated address as well. I thought it can only store in the already generated ones. Well thank you for this.
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LoyceV
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Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021
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July 26, 2023, 06:04:43 PM |
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Yes I don't know that bitcoin can stay in the ungenerated address as well. I thought it can only store in the already generated ones. Well thank you for this. There's no way for the sending wallet to know how an address was generated. It could be a " burn waste" address with only a valid checksum, it could be someone created it offline. Either way, it looks the same from the sender's perspective.
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NotATether
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bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
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July 27, 2023, 12:16:20 PM |
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Maybe I wasn't clear enough in the OP or maybe I couldn't understand exactly what I was looking for because of my barriers in technical side. Imagine, I have sent Bitcoin to an address- 15wJjXvfQzo3SXqoWGbWZmNYND1Si4siqA We don't know if this address has already been created or not but for understanding what I'm trying to know, we assume that the address hasn't been created/generated yet. In 2050, someone created a Bitcoin wallet and generated an address, coincidentally, the address is the same address which I have sent Bitcoin in 2023. Won't he get the Bitcoin? My bad that I'm still confused despite having two great explanations above. It would be cool if you would explain in theory instead of applying technical terms Yes, they will be able to get the bitcoins. But it is extremely rare for anyone to generate a duplicate Bitcoin address randomly, because the address is generated with 1^160 probability. A "non-existant address" in Bitcoin, from a human's perspective, is an address that has never been generated before ever. Now there's no way of actually knowing that somebody somewhere has not generated the same address as someone else, unless it was generated from a weak private key like 1,2,3 and so on, hence why o_e_l_e_o wrote that there's no such thing as non-existant addresses in the Bitcoin network, as nobody can really be sure about that.
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. .BLACKJACK ♠ FUN. | | | ███▄██████ ██████████████▀ ████████████ █████████████████ ████████████████▄▄ ░█████████████▀░▀▀ ██████████████████ ░██████████████ █████████████████▄ ░██████████████▀ ████████████ ███████████████░██ ██████████ | | CRYPTO CASINO & SPORTS BETTING | | │ | | │ | ▄▄███████▄▄ ▄███████████████▄ ███████████████████ █████████████████████ ███████████████████████ █████████████████████████ █████████████████████████ █████████████████████████ ███████████████████████ █████████████████████ ███████████████████ ▀███████████████▀ ███████████████████ | | .
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BlackHatCoiner
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Farewell, Leo
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July 27, 2023, 01:17:10 PM |
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But I don't know of bitcoin address, and I don't think the bitcoin will enter the ungenerated address. There's no such thing as "ungenerated address". All addresses are generated. What counts as "generated" to you, is an address with a known private key. But they all exist, hence are generated. Even LoyceV's shared "burning address" tool, is actually generating addresses; it just skips the private key part and chooses the RIPEMD-160 hash instead of producing it with some SHA-256 hash of the public key. All Bitcoin addresses exist, and that's the way you should see it. We just don't know who holds the key for which.
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. .HUGE. | | | | | | █▀▀▀▀ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █▄▄▄▄ | ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ . CASINO & SPORTSBOOK ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ | ▀▀▀▀█ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ ▄▄▄▄█ | | |
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