SOLVED: deprecated wallet: mSIGNA - how to access private keys? TINY BTC BOUNTY!

[o_e_l_e_o]

I am forgetting that mSIGMA has not been updated since 2017, and that Electrum exports transactions in PSBT format, which was only released in 2017 in BIP174. I wonder if this is the issue.

Why not try importing your addresses and creating the transaction using https://www.coinb.in/#newTransaction instead. This will export your transaction as plain hex, which is hopefully the format mSIGMA uses too, and then try importing that to mSIGMA for signing?

If that fails, then I think the easiest thing is going to be to try to sync your mSIGMA wallet with NotATether's node as he kindly offered above.

[1714605504]

1714605504

[1714605504]

1714605504

[1714605504]

1714605504

[1714605504]

1714605504

[nc50lc]

There a way to do it in Electrum even if your mSigna isn't synced, but you must have a list of your addresses.

Here's how to do it:

• Create an Electrum wallet with the option "Import bitcoin address or private keys" and paste ALL of your addresses with transaction history, including the empty ones (if unsure, just paste all).
• Alternatively, if you're 100% sure of the funded ones, paste those instead.
• Finish creating the wallet and let Electrum Sync.
• Go to 'History' tab and you should see a list of transactions.
• Now, each transaction should be imported to mSigna manually, from old to new: to do that, open a transaction via "Right-Click->Details".
• In the transaction details, export it via "Share->Copy to Clipboard".
• In in your mSigna wallet, click "Transactions->Import Transaction->From Clipboard (raw)" and it will be added to your Transactions tab.
• Do that to the rest of the transactions in Electrum to manually sync your mSigna wallet.

After importing all of the transactions, just create a transaction manually, export it (raw) and import it to Electrum to broadcast.
Here's the detailed steps to Send the transaction:

• In mSigna, Go to 'Accounts' tab; click the correct account and then click "Send".
• In the 'Send' window, Tap "Enable Coin Control" for easier manual txn generation.
• Select all of the available inputs and the total should be listed below.
• Set an absolute fee (it's not fee rate) which should be not less than the standard fee for the transaction's size.
• Now fill up the address and amount which should be equal to the fee deducted from the inputs' amount.
• Click "Sign" to finalize it (or "Save Unsigned->Right click on the created unsigned txn in the history->Signatures...->Right-Click->Add Signature").
• Now to Broadcast that Signed Raw transaction, right-click on it and select "Export Transaction->To Clipboard (raw)"
• Import it to Electrum via "Tools->Load transaction->From text", then click broadcast.

[DaveF]

If NotATethers node does not work out and you can wait till late next week I can have a disposable machine setup for you with a full node that is synced on it. Linux / Windows just let me know.

You can then install what you need, do what you need to do and I'll wipe it.

Should not matter really since there should be no funds left. I'm just so busy at the moment getting a machine up and a 1tb drive installed and core synced is going to take me a little while to get it done. Or, I can just spin up a node with storage and let you do the rest.

-Dave

[Kryptowerk]

I am forgetting that mSIGMA has not been updated since 2017, and that Electrum exports transactions in PSBT format, which was only released in 2017 in BIP174. I wonder if this is the issue.

Why not try importing your addresses and creating the transaction using https://www.coinb.in/#newTransaction instead. This will export your transaction as plain hex, which is hopefully the format mSIGMA uses too, and then try importing that to mSIGMA for signing?

If that fails, then I think the easiest thing is going to be to try to sync your mSIGMA wallet with NotATether's node as he kindly offered above.

Thanks again, o_e_l_e_o.
I checked your link but I get a " You should use the redeem script, not its address!" message - but didn't really check how this works, maybe I should readthe documentation first, will do so tomorrow.

There a way to do it in Electrum even if your mSigna isn't synced, but you must have a list of your addresses.

Here's how to do it:

• Create an Electrum wallet with the option "Import bitcoin address or private keys" and paste ALL of your addresses with transaction history, including the empty ones (if unsure, just paste all).
• Alternatively, if you're 100% sure of the funded ones, paste those instead.
• Finish creating the wallet and let Electrum Sync.
• Go to 'History' tab and you should see a list of transactions.
• Now, each transaction should be imported to mSigna manually, from old to new: to do that, open a transaction via "Right-Click->Details".
• In the transaction details, export it via "Share->Copy to Clipboard".
• In in your mSigna wallet, click "Transactions->Import Transaction->From Clipboard (raw)" and it will be added to your Transactions tab.
• Do that to the rest of the transactions in Electrum to manually sync your mSigna wallet.

After importing all of the transactions, just create a transaction manually, export it (raw) and import it to Electrum to broadcast.
Here's the detailed steps to Send the transaction:

• In mSigna, Go to 'Accounts' tab; click the correct account and then click "Send".
• In the 'Send' window, Tap "Enable Coin Control" for easier manual txn generation.
• Select all of the available inputs and the total should be listed below.
• Set an absolute fee (it's not fee rate) which should be not less than the standard fee for the transaction's size.
• Now fill up the address and amount which should be equal to the fee deducted from the inputs' amount.
• Click "Sign" to finalize it (or "Save Unsigned->Right click on the created unsigned txn in the history->Signatures...->Right-Click->Add Signature").
• Now to Broadcast that Signed Raw transaction, right-click on it and select "Export Transaction->To Clipboard (raw)"
• Import it to Electrum via "Tools->Load transaction->From text", then click broadcast.

Very detailed explanation, much appreciated. This will be my next try, if I can't figure out how to do it via the coinb.in tool.
Thanks, nc50lc.


And thank you, Dave! Yes, the full node solution is cool, but hopefully not necessary and at this point not even sure I wanna do it for the funds remaining.
Might get back to you, at some point if really none of the above works out.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I checked your link but I get a " You should use the redeem script, not its address!" message - but didn't really check how this works, maybe I should readthe documentation first, will do so tomorrow.

Ahh right, sure.

You'll want to go back to the mempool.space page for the transaction you sent me, click on "Details" again, and copy and paste the text after where it says "OP_PUSHBYTES_37" for each address. There's one of those for each address. Each one will start with "5121" and will end with "51ae".

If you paste that string in to coinb.in and hit load, it will find the address.

[NotATether]

About the own node solution: Right now don't even have the disc space for a BTC full node (but could use some older HDD lying around) - my worry is, even after finally having a synced full node running and connected to mSIGNA, the sync process will be stuck somewhere - that's what people seem to report on their github a lot.

Would you like to borrow my full node for a little while?

That sounds interesting, thanks for the offer.
Not sure if it's worth it for the few sats remaining, how would that actually work - Just try to connect to it via the right address?

Does your wallet simply include a setting for the node IP address and port to sync with, or does it store the wallet there too?

If the latter, I am thinking on the lines of running the mSIGNA wallet on my box and issuing RPCs to my node to try to fetch private keys or something like that - so not really decentralized but I guess if you have no other way to access the bitcoins inside the wallet then you probably don't have another alternative than to run a Bitcoin full node.

[Kryptowerk]

I checked your link but I get a " You should use the redeem script, not its address!" message - but didn't really check how this works, maybe I should readthe documentation first, will do so tomorrow.

Ahh right, sure.

You'll want to go back to the mempool.space page for the transaction you sent me, click on "Details" again, and copy and paste the text after where it says "OP_PUSHBYTES_37" for each address. There's one of those for each address. Each one will start with "5121" and will end with "51ae".

If you paste that string in to coinb.in and hit load, it will find the address.

That worked - it detects the right amount of sats etc on it. I created a tx with a typical fee.
However just importing the tx to mSIGNA gives the following error: "invalid signature".
The coinbin tool also allows for signing. So I tried it signing with the BIP32 extended private key. Does work - But broadcasting does not. I tried it in Electrum and on coinb.in itself. The error I get is similar "1 the transaction was rejected by network rules. mandatory-script-verify-flag-failed (Operation not valid with the current stack size)".
I also tried signing with the public BIP32 key and importing to mSIGNA (to hopefully sign there and export later), but it gets denied with the "invalid signature" prompt

There a way to do it in Electrum even if your mSigna isn't synced, but you must have a list of your addresses.

Here's how to do it:

• Create an Electrum wallet with the option "Import bitcoin address or private keys" and paste ALL of your addresses with transaction history, including the empty ones (if unsure, just paste all).
• Alternatively, if you're 100% sure of the funded ones, paste those instead.
• Finish creating the wallet and let Electrum Sync.
• Go to 'History' tab and you should see a list of transactions.
• Now, each transaction should be imported to mSigna manually, from old to new: to do that, open a transaction via "Right-Click->Details".
• In the transaction details, export it via "Share->Copy to Clipboard".
• In in your mSigna wallet, click "Transactions->Import Transaction->From Clipboard (raw)" and it will be added to your Transactions tab.
• Do that to the rest of the transactions in Electrum to manually sync your mSigna wallet.

[...]

I already failed at step 5 "open a transaction via "Right-Click->Details" -> I can only click on details in the addresses tab, where I clearly see the ones with still spendable-outputs available. However nowhere I can find a "Share-> Copy to Clipboard" option.
I found something similar though in the Coins tab. If I click on Details there is an "Export -> Copy to Clipboard" option. I tried that and then import via mSIGNA via Transactions->Import Transaction->From Clipboard (raw). It crashed the wallet. lol (no worries I backed it up before).


EDIT: BIG UPDATE! It worked! I hadn't unlocked my keychain when I first tried to import and mSIGNA crashed. However I just tried again and it actually worked. Importing to mSIGNA, then, with finally a correct sync state I was able to select the right spendable outputs (actually just the address holding the coins) and then sign the transaction, import to electrum and broadcast there.

About the own node solution: Right now don't even have the disc space for a BTC full node (but could use some older HDD lying around) - my worry is, even after finally having a synced full node running and connected to mSIGNA, the sync process will be stuck somewhere - that's what people seem to report on their github a lot.

Would you like to borrow my full node for a little while?

That sounds interesting, thanks for the offer.
Not sure if it's worth it for the few sats remaining, how would that actually work - Just try to connect to it via the right address?

Does your wallet simply include a setting for the node IP address and port to sync with, or does it store the wallet there too?

If the latter, I am thinking on the lines of running the mSIGNA wallet on my box and issuing RPCs to my node to try to fetch private keys or something like that - so not really decentralized but I guess if you have no other way to access the bitcoins inside the wallet then you probably don't have another alternative than to run a Bitcoin full node.

Yes, mSIGNA has a network setting page similar to Electrum where you just input an IP address and a port. The keys are only on my device - it's actually it once was a pretty cool wallet with lots of options for individual control. Just setup in a weird and depricated way without proper documentation to be found and ofc not updated for over 5 or 6 years now.



I feel there are many paths that almost lead to the right desitnation, but something is missing. Probably has to do with their strange multisig-1-1

[Kryptowerk]

Fantastic! Thanks a lot for all the help to everyone involved.
I'd like to split my bounty with o_e_l_e_o and to nc50lc. - please send me your coffee-tip addresses via dm!
And also a big shoutout to NotATether and DaveF for offering help and suggestions!

It's just a relatively tiny amount of funds recovered HOWEVER I learned quite a bit on the way to finally solving how to retrieve them.
I am still curious as to what the correct derivation path for mSIGNA actually is and what some of the strange error messages when trying to broadcast with coinb.in actually mean.


If anyone faces the same problem or similar problem, I would be willing to make a step-by-step guide with screenshots to help assist.
For now all the info needed can be found in the thread and already neatly summarized by nc50lc a few posts back.

[nc50lc]

-snip-

I already failed at step 5 "open a transaction via "Right-Click->Details" -> I can only click on details in the addresses tab, where I clearly see the ones with still spendable-outputs available. However nowhere I can find a "Share-> Copy to Clipboard" option.
I found something similar though in the Coins tab. If I click on Details there is an "Export -> Copy to Clipboard" option. I tried that and then import via mSIGNA via Transactions->Import Transaction->From Clipboard (raw). It crashed the wallet. lol (no worries I backed it up before).


EDIT: BIG UPDATE! It worked! I hadn't unlocked my keychain when I first tried to import and mSIGNA crashed. However I just tried again and it actually worked. Importing to mSIGNA, then, with finally a correct sync state I was able to select the right spendable outputs (actually just the address holding the coins) and then sign the transaction, import to electrum and broadcast there.

Glad that it worked at the end.
I didn't tested it on a locked keychain so I failed to add a note to unlock it first.

By the way, to get the transaction details like in the instructions, you should be in the 'History' tab as mentioned.
But yes, the hidden 'Coins' tab which are the actual UTXOs should work as well.

[Kryptowerk]

-snip-

I already failed at step 5 "open a transaction via "Right-Click->Details" -> I can only click on details in the addresses tab, where I clearly see the ones with still spendable-outputs available. However nowhere I can find a "Share-> Copy to Clipboard" option.
I found something similar though in the Coins tab. If I click on Details there is an "Export -> Copy to Clipboard" option. I tried that and then import via mSIGNA via Transactions->Import Transaction->From Clipboard (raw). It crashed the wallet. lol (no worries I backed it up before).


EDIT: BIG UPDATE! It worked! I hadn't unlocked my keychain when I first tried to import and mSIGNA crashed. However I just tried again and it actually worked. Importing to mSIGNA, then, with finally a correct sync state I was able to select the right spendable outputs (actually just the address holding the coins) and then sign the transaction, import to electrum and broadcast there.

Glad that it worked at the end.
I didn't tested it on a locked keychain so I failed to add a note to unlock it first.

By the way, to get the transaction details like in the instructions, you should be in the 'History' tab as mentioned.
But yes, the hidden 'Coins' tab which are the actual UTXOs should work as well.

Ah, yes, I just found it, you need to click "view transactions" und the History tab. I think Coins tab actually works best because you can be sure not to miss any spendable outputs this way.
nc50lc, make sure to send me your reward-BTC address, I am slightly upping the total bounty to 2x 1/10000 of a block-reward (0.00125 BTC in total).

Just curious: Did you also use mSIGNA in the past or did you just download it to check how things could work?

[o_e_l_e_o]

Fantastic! Thanks a lot for all the help to everyone involved.

Amazing you finally got it working. Big props to nc50lc for the ingenious solution!

I am still curious as to what the correct derivation path for mSIGNA actually is and what some of the strange error messages when trying to broadcast with coinb.in actually mean.

The error messages just mean the signature was incorrect for whatever reason (most likely it was signed with the wrong private key). I'm also curious about the derivation path and am half tempted to download the wallet myself to figure it out, but at the same time I don't want a wallet with such a crazy system as a 1-of-1 multi-sig and unknown back up processes on my computer.

This is a great lesson for everyone - stick to the industry standards. When you try and do weird things in terms of addresses, scripts, seed phrases, back ups, etc., then more often than not you just create more problems than you are trying to solve.

[nc50lc]

-snip-

Just curious: Did you also use mSIGNA in the past or did you just download it to check how things could work?

I have a cache of various Bitcoin wallets/clients for testing purposes and I happened to have mSigna among those.

For the tip address, you can use any of the two addresses in my profile page: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1237156