Solo Vs. Pool mining

[James70818]

I've been mining for a while. I started out in a pool, recouped my investment. Then I took half of my Hashing power out and put it in Solo mining while the other half stayed in the pool generating something.

I know it is luck based but we use to average 5-6 blockchains a day. But we are running in a dry spell right now with 0-2 per day. With that being the case, now I'm thinking about pushing it all in Solo Mining and just let it run. If I do that, my hashing rate is running about 850TH/s. Not bad, but its a lottery. I don't live off the money so I don't need to generate money daily. Just curious what some of you would do?

James

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850 TH/s will bring good income, but you do not depend on the ASICs used, the electricity and other things that are used, you can mine solo with the ASICs.

You have said it already, it is like you are gambling to mine a block. With that hashrate, it is possible that you can become lucky like any of those unknown miners that mine a block.

But if it is me, to even buy a single ASIC that is generating 110 TH/s is costly, I will not think two times to join a mining pool and be getting my income steadily, instead of going for solo mining.

[hosseinimr93]

If I do that, my hashing rate is running about 850TH/s. Not bad, but its a lottery.

I wish you good luck, but you should know that the chance of you mining a block is very low.
The total hash rate is now around 390 Ehash/s. This means that you own around 0.0002% of the total hash rate. Assuming that the total hash rate won't change, you will find 1 block every 8.7 years on average.

[philipma1957]

If I do that, my hashing rate is running about 850TH/s. Not bad, but its a lottery.

I wish you good luck, but you should know that the chance of you mining a block is very low.
The total hash rate is now around 390 Ehash/s. This means that you own around 0.0002% of the total hash rate. Assuming that the total hash rate won't change, you will find 1 block every 8.7 years on average.

If you have 850 th and it mines at a profit. You should mine 750th at a profit and mine 100th at the solo pool.


Most people think that playing a lot of lottery tickets is a better way to win the lottery.

If you play your 750 and grind a profit.

you can endlessly play the 100th at solo.

100th out of 380 eh is a small shot to hit a block

850th out of 380 eh is not a great shot to hit a block

the false thought is 850 th. vs 100 th is 8.5 times better shot to win

you are missing that 380,000,000 th - 100 th is

379,999,900 miners  miners against you

and 380,000,000 - 850 is 379,999,150  miners against you

so while the win chance is 8.5 to 1 better the loss shot is

only 379,999,150/379,999,900 less.

so you only drop the loss chance by under 0.00000075

[James70818]

Thanks for your thoughts. With BRAIINS pool I'm in I might need to move on. This is the worst dry spell I have ever seen with them in the years I have been there. Tonight at 10:30 it will be 48 hours without a hit.

I like the idea of keeping one machine in a Solo Pool and just let the others grind away.

[philipma1957]

Thanks for your thoughts. With BRAIINS pool I'm in I might need to move on. This is the worst dry spell I have ever seen with them in the years I have been there. Tonight at 10:30 it will be 48 hours without a hit.

I like the idea of keeping one machine in a Solo Pool and just let the others grind away.

you could try viabtc.com. they pay a guaranteed rate

[ranochigo]

Thanks for your thoughts. With BRAIINS pool I'm in I might need to move on. This is the worst dry spell I have ever seen with them in the years I have been there. Tonight at 10:30 it will be 48 hours without a hit.

I like the idea of keeping one machine in a Solo Pool and just let the others grind away.

Eh, that's pretty normal. I've had a lot of block-less days without any blocks when I was mining and I never really had to shift away from the pool. The profits in the long run would be the same anyways, just select one that has the lowest fees. Pools' payout system discourages pool hopping.

[James70818]

Thanks for your thoughts. With BRAIINS pool I'm in I might need to move on. This is the worst dry spell I have ever seen with them in the years I have been there. Tonight at 10:30 it will be 48 hours without a hit.

I like the idea of keeping one machine in a Solo Pool and just let the others grind away.

Eh, that's pretty normal. I've had a lot of block-less days without any blocks when I was mining and I never really had to shift away from the pool. The profits in the long run would be the same anyways, just select one that has the lowest fees. Pools' payout system discourages pool hopping.

Yeah, I've seen dry days but the last 2-3 weeks have seen exceptionally low. Going on 72 hours now with only one Block. I've been in Slushpool (Braiins now) for a couple years and have only moved a couple ASIC's around here and there but very little. Just letting them eat.

[mikeywith]

Eh, that's pretty normal. I've had a lot of block-less days without any blocks when I was mining and I never really had to shift away from the pool. The profits in the long run would be the same anyways

While that is correct, the long run has to be set to infinity for this actually to work out, but if a "long-run" that is a reasonable period of a few months or years, then the pool's payout will be very different if you mine to a pool that doesn't find a block for a whole year, there is no guarantee that the next year the pool will find double the blocks to make up for that first year if you mine on the same pool for a 100 years, it's more likely to even out, but that isn't practical.

There are a few things you need to remember when thinking that all pools will eventually pay you the same, as difficulty increases your pool needs to ramp up real fast to cover up for the losses, it's like giving someone a loan without interest, the more the "bad luck" period lasts the more people leave the pool which makes things even worse, so instead of things breaking even next year, you could be looking at 3 years.

Even if the pool hashrate stays constant, it will find fewer blocks as time goes on due to the difficulty increase, it just keeps getting worse and worse, it doesn't matter how you look at it if you are stuck with a pool that isn't finding blocks NOW, it's just a bad deal.

This is the reason why > 90% of miners mine to PPS pools, it's not worth taking the risk, I rather pay 2% more fee and be guaranteed to get payouts than have to wait for a week, month, or a year just to save 2%, where in reality you won't save anything if the difficulty increases before you even out.

OP:

If I were you, I would point enough gears to PPS pool to cover the electricity bill for all miners.

For example, 10 miners, need 100$ a month in total, and each miner makes 20$ profit.
point 5 of them to a PPS pool to make 100$ to pay the whole bill.
point 5 of them to solo to mine for "free".

This way, all you risking is the "cost" of the miners, in fact, just the devaluation of the cost since you can still sell them at some point.

[philipma1957]

Yeah the key is getting a "certain" payment fuck variance.

So viabtc.com will pay a set amount at the moment 7.2 cents a th.

so a 100 th unit pays you $7.20 worth of btc.

you can set payment threshold as low as 0.0001 btc which is a very low level.

you have 850 th point 550th  or more. at viabtc you get 39.60 a day and a shot to hit the block with the 300th.

whether you do

 800 certain 50 solo

down to

400 certain 450 solo

you get certain coin

me I do.

2.4ph certain

40th solo

[James70818]

Yeah the key is getting a "certain" payment fuck variance.

So viabtc.com will pay a set amount at the moment 7.2 cents a th.

so a 100 th unit pays you $7.20 worth of btc.

you can set payment threshold as low as 0.0001 btc which is a very low level.

you have 850 th point 550th  or more. at viabtc you get 39.60 a day and a shot to hit the block with the 300th.

whether you do

 800 certain 50 solo

down to

400 certain 450 solo

you get certain coin

me I do.

2.4ph certain

40th solo

Thanks, I like the idea. I have another 200TH that I will be adding to the pool next week. Used ASIC's are just getting stupid cheap. That will allow me to run 950TH in certain and I'll put one machine in solo.

The challenge is I've been running roughly 450TH in certain and yesterday we hit 3 block and 2 today. So yesterday yielded $42. Which makes me not so interested in the viabtc. yes it is consistent but.....

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AnOS60y9MK8XjOMjKAhQ8DDmVgYLiw?e=rSiL0A

[gunhell16]

I've been mining for a while. I started out in a pool, recouped my investment. Then I took half of my Hashing power out and put it in Solo mining while the other half stayed in the pool generating something.

I know it is luck based but we use to average 5-6 blockchains a day. But we are running in a dry spell right now with 0-2 per day. With that being the case, now I'm thinking about pushing it all in Solo Mining and just let it run. If I do that, my hashing rate is running about 850TH/s. Not bad, but its a lottery. I don't live off the money so I don't need to generate money daily. Just curious what some of you would do?

James

In some other way, I understand that you are in a situation where you are choosing between continuing to mine in a pool and switching to solo mining. Here are probably some things to think about if you are choosing something. Actually, it is up to you whether you choose to mine alone. There is no right or incorrect response to this matter anyway; instead, the decision for you will depend on the particulars of your case scenario.

If you choose to transition to solo mining, I advise you to do it gradually. You could start by shifting a fraction of your hash rate to solo mining; as you get more accustomed to the dangers involved, progressively raise the percentage. I hope this will help resolve your problems here.

[Flexystar]

Wow, now this is something I am learning new today from the this thread. Though I know solo mining exists but going further and distributing the hash power to someone and getting those cents in the fees is just amazing idea right now. This can definitely set aside new income source on top of the solo mining right? Just one more question while I was reading this, whether we get the reward for the solo mining when we are also sharing the hash to let us say viabtc.com ? Like in the normal case I would be getting my fees for mining and they would be getting added to the account based on difficulty, hash rate etc. So if I am sharing the hash for getting those 7.0 cents per th, will it also take down my pool reward with it?

Eh, that's pretty normal. I've had a lot of block-less days without any blocks when I was mining and I never really had to shift away from the pool. The profits in the long run would be the same anyways

If I were you, I would point enough gears to PPS pool to cover the electricity bill for all miners.

For example, 10 miners, need 100$ a month in total, and each miner makes 20$ profit.
point 5 of them to a PPS pool to make 100$ to pay the whole bill.
point 5 of them to solo to mine for "free".

This way, all you risking is the "cost" of the miners, in fact, just the devaluation of the cost since you can still sell them at some point.

What I am thinking and what is being written here contradicts the statement that is why I am asking this.

In any case it seems sharing the hashing power is best way to go for mining and earn enough money after the bills as compared to mining as an individual.
I can't imagine the money they would earn if someone had entire farm of miners and dedicated everything for the 7 cent /th ?

In short whether it is one income source or two incomes sources with this strategy when someone is doing solo mining?

[mikeywith]

Wow, now this is something I am learning new today from the this thread. Though I know solo mining exists but going further and distributing the hash power to someone and getting those cents in the fees is just amazing idea right now. This can definitely set aside new income source on top of the solo mining right?

If I understood your statement correctly, it means you misunderstood mine, there is no "sharing" for hashrate, my suggested plan is to cover the power bill using a part of that hashrate he has on non solo pool like Viabtc.

you need to understand these points

1- mining solo has slim to no chance of hitting block but if it happens, it's a lot of money.
2- mining to normal PPS pool, you are guaranteed to make small profit everyday.

So you do simple math based on the type of miner and your electricity price, an example

You have 10 miners, they need 5$ a day for electricity, and they make 10$ profit mining on PPS pool

A- You point all of them to PPS you make 10 - 5 = 5$ a day
B- You point all of them to solo, you lose 5$ a day
C- You point 5 of them to PPS you make 5$ a day and pay 5$ for electricity so you earn  0$ and lose 0$

A = low risk and low reward.
B = very high risk and very high reward.
C = medium risk and high reward.

To each his own way of doing things, one might come up with another option

D- you point 8 of them to PPS and make 8$ and pay 5$ for bill you earn net profit of 3$

There is no perfect way of doing this, it all depends on how much you are willing to risk and your power rate.

[philipma1957]

Wow, now this is something I am learning new today from the this thread. Though I know solo mining exists but going further and distributing the hash power to someone and getting those cents in the fees is just amazing idea right now. This can definitely set aside new income source on top of the solo mining right?

If I understood your statement correctly, it means you misunderstood mine, there is no "sharing" for hashrate, my suggested plan is to cover the power bill using a part of that hashrate he has on non solo pool like Viabtc.

you need to understand these points

1- mining solo has slim to no chance of hitting block but if it happens, it's a lot of money.
2- mining to normal PPS pool, you are guaranteed to make small profit everyday.

So you do simple math based on the type of miner and your electricity price, an example

You have 10 miners, they need 5$ a day for electricity, and they make 10$ profit mining on PPS pool

A- You point all of them to PPS you make 10 - 5 = 5$ a day
B- You point all of them to solo, you lose 5$ a day
C- You point 5 of them to PPS you make 5$ a day and pay 5$ for electricity so you earn  0$ and lose 0$

A = low risk and low reward.
B = very high risk and very high reward.
C = medium risk and high reward.

To each his own way of doing things, one might come up with another option

D- you point 8 of them to PPS and make 8$ and pay 5$ for bill you earn net profit of 3$

There is no perfect way of doing this, it all depends on how much you are willing to risk and your power rate.

I have 3600th at viabtc and I have 43th on a pool that is like solo mining.

I may never hit the solo style pool but if I do I get 2.40 btc.

and I get 0.06 x 3600 = 216 usd a day in btc.

this is the solo style pool note it is not a solo pool

https://pool.laurentiapool.org/#/miners

I am the miner with43th and address is 146...gx3

so I lose 0.06 x 43 a day = $2.58 for a chance at 2.4 btc

[DaveF]

Although this is not 100% related to BTC I think it shows solo vs pool very well.
Let me start with these are not my miners, I just manage them. So I have access to them and the pool login. It's LTC mining but the point is the same.

4 x Bitmain L3+ units

From 1 Jan 2019 to today they have found 10 blocks on LTC Pool
The blocks would have generated about 150 LTC in total (less but using round numbers and quick math)
They have gotten paid about 90 LTC in total from the pool. (OUCH)

BUT of the 4 miners and 10 blocks
One miner found 1 block
Two miners found 2 blocks each
And the 4th miner found the other 5.

Is one miner better then the others. No, just had a ton better luck.
That is the way luck works.

Mining solo you could have the miner that found 1 block in close to 5 years. Or the one that is finding about 1 a year.

So, bringing this back to BTC solo vs pool. You can have some good luck mining solo and the potential to be way ahead.
You just have to be aware that the other side it true too and if you had that miner that found 1 block well then.....

Yes LTC is a lot different in cost and difficulty then BTC. But the math does not change only the amount of money involved.

-Dave

[mikeywith]

From 1 Jan 2019 to today they have found 10 blocks on LTC Pool
The blocks would have generated about 150 LTC in total (less but using round numbers and quick math)
They have gotten paid about 90 LTC in total from the pool. (OUCH)

I know you understand this, but worth explaining to those who do not.

For 4 miners and 4 years this is still a very lucky streak, when people talk about rewards being equal in the long run that long run is usually misunderstood, long period means infinity, with infinite time even a single miner would end up finding the same number of blocks it would have got mining on a pool but we all know that no miner can run for infinite period.

Also, it is worth mentioning that 4 L3s on LTC have a higher chance of hitting a block than 40 S*9 on BTC, probably even higher than 400 or 4000 S9 (on the phone can't do accurate math), so the variance on LTC is way less than that on BTC, on BTC to make things easier to understand, 99.9% of people mining with a few gears will never hit a single block during the lifespan of those miners.     

[DaveF]

From 1 Jan 2019 to today they have found 10 blocks on LTC Pool
The blocks would have generated about 150 LTC in total (less but using round numbers and quick math)
They have gotten paid about 90 LTC in total from the pool. (OUCH)

I know you understand this, but worth explaining to those who do not.

For 4 miners and 4 years this is still a very lucky streak, when people talk about rewards being equal in the long run that long run is usually misunderstood, long period means infinity, with infinite time even a single miner would end up finding the same number of blocks it would have got mining on a pool but we all know that no miner can run for infinite period.

Also, it is worth mentioning that 4 L3s on LTC have a higher chance of hitting a block than 40 S*9 on BTC, probably even higher than 400 or 4000 S9 (on the phone can't do accurate math), so the variance on LTC is way less than that on BTC, on BTC to make things easier to understand, 99.9% of people mining with a few gears will never hit a single block during the lifespan of those miners. 

True, and odds are from here on out the chances of any of that gear finding anything is close to 0
I was just showing with a smaller sample set that unless you are very very very..and about 100 more very lucky.

Or, as I once described it to someone, it's not lottery mining, it's lottery mining using lottery tickets that people already threw out since they did not win and you are going though that pile of old tickets hoping to find the one that was a winner that someone missed.

-Dave

[mikeywith]

I was just showing with a smaller sample set that unless you are very very very..and about 100 more very lucky.

Indeed, and to make things even more "saddening" we need to explain to those who don't know that with LTC things are A LOT easier, and here is how:

LTC hashrate is 800TH, so 4 L3s get you 0.002TH which is 0.00025% of the total hashrate
BTC hashrate is  475000000TH, 4*S9s gets you 56TH which is 0.00001%

In order to have the same chances you would need 1200TH which is 85*S9, but then also, BTC average block time is 10 mins whereas in LTC it's 2.5 mins, so it's more like you need 340 * S9s to match the number of blocks with the L3 scenarios, of course, BTC blocks are worth a lot more, but then again, even with 340*S9s your chances of hitting a block are pretty slim, let alone 1 or 2.

Or, as I once described it to someone, it's not lottery mining, it's lottery mining using lottery tickets that people already threw out since they did not win and you are going through that pile of old tickets hoping to find the one that was a winner that someone missed.

That's a brilliant explanation indeed, might want to add this part to it "The lottery organizer is getting very old and may die at any second".