No choice but to use the unavoidable middle man, the exchange companies.

[robelneo]

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

Unfortunately being a third-party company in a decentralized technology has become a very lucrative business, Satoshi envisioned an environment without the middleman man but the lack of trust between the two parties gives power to the middleman, the third-party system has been with us since time immemorial and unfortunately, it integrates in a decentralized exchange because of the lack of trust.

Honestly, I have more numbers of trades using a middleman than using a peer-to-peer I'm sure all of us here third parties will always be with us, we are so used to it, It applies in many industries it applies in Cryptocurrency.

[Mpamaegbu]

Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

This isn't even the real middlemen we should be worried about. As for what happens in the general exchange of cryptos for cryptos, we can see that as buying from the house. The exchange charges commission to give us that service. The real issue is the exchange of cryptos for fiat using the P2P feature, even on Binance. Despite the fact that merchants are verified and their details held by exchanges, you still get the greedy ones among them trying to scam those they're transacting with. A few days ago, while transacting with one on a reputable exchange who claimed he had sent payment and that I should release coin. But that was a lie. He didn't send any cash. I confronted the thief and he immediately cancelled the trade. Without middlemen in P2P, scam will kill the industry. I could've been scammed by that buyer if there weren't any middlemen (who held my coin) and I wasn't extremely careful too.

~snipped~

For example there are some P2P local groups were with or without the third party escrow service, some parties still transact successfully without distrust which is the original bitcoin decentralized system.

I understand the scenario you painted there but that can be very risky too. To get to that point of trust, one must've done series of transaction with the other to enthrone such trust. Nobody should rush into trusting anyone by assurances of mouth. Let action prove its deeds.

[Gozie51]

Honestly, I have more numbers of trades using a middleman than using a peer-to-peer I'm sure all of us here third parties will always be with us, we are so used to it, It applies in many industries it applies in Cryptocurrency.

With this can we now say that bitcoin is not performing the original privacy goal or that it is the human factor that is frustrating it because like you pointed out, third party services in bitcoin is really growing bigger apart from the exchanges, people have taken up this like the brokers and they stand in the middle to execute the transaction like the escrow service. I think the P2P service is not really getting that attention because of trust.

[Smack That Ace]

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

Unfortunately being a third-party company in a decentralized technology has become a very lucrative business, Satoshi envisioned an environment without the middleman man but the lack of trust between the two parties gives power to the middleman, the third-party system has been with us since time immemorial and unfortunately, it integrates in a decentralized exchange because of the lack of trust.

Honestly, I have more numbers of trades using a middleman than using a peer-to-peer I'm sure all of us here third parties will always be with us, we are so used to it, It applies in many industries it applies in Cryptocurrency.

I also believe most people here are also using centralized exchanges or intermediaries rather than peer-to-peer. But people dare not admit it because they think they will be discriminated against by bitcoin maximalists on the forum. It is not only a habit, but we also feel safer and more comfortable when using intermediary services. When it comes to storing assets, of course non-custodial wallets are an indispensable choice. But when it comes to trading, I actually still prefer to use exchanges or intermediary services.

[Kelward]

Honestly, I have more numbers of trades using a middleman than using a peer-to-peer I'm sure all of us here third parties will always be with us, we are so used to it, It applies in many industries it applies in Cryptocurrency.

With this can we now say that bitcoin is not performing the original privacy goal or that it is the human factor that is frustrating it because like you pointed out, third party services in bitcoin is really growing bigger apart from the exchanges, people have taken up this like the brokers and they stand in the middle to execute the transaction like the escrow service. I think the P2P service is not really getting that attention because of trust.

Definitely the human factor that is mitigating against this original plan of bitcoin P2P transactions, that assures privacy between two parties. And this is as a result of mistrust, because nobody wants to be scammed, therefore it necessitates the importance and emergence of the middleman in transactions. I think that as long as there is no technology on ground yet to guard against being scammed in P2P transactions, then the exchanges and other forms of third parties will still be invited as intermediaries in bitcoin transactions. I really look forward to the day when we won't need any centralized exchanges to transact bitcoin, that was made to be decentralized.

[South Park]

Definitely the human factor that is mitigating against this original plan of bitcoin P2P transactions, that assures privacy between two parties. And this is as a result of mistrust, because nobody wants to be scammed, therefore it necessitates the importance and emergence of the middleman in transactions. I think that as long as there is no technology on ground yet to guard against being scammed in P2P transactions, then the exchanges and other forms of third parties will still be invited as intermediaries in bitcoin transactions. I really look forward to the day when we won't need any centralized exchanges to transact bitcoin, that was made to be decentralized.

This is going to be difficult, the greater the degree of privacy the greater the chances people act on ways they would not if their information was exposed for everyone to see, so people will have to adapt, one way is the use of a centralized third party which mediates between the two parties trying to make a transaction, the other option is to simply accept the higher risk and move on, and as you may guess both options have advantages and disadvantages.

[serjent05]

Honestly, I have more numbers of trades using a middleman than using a peer-to-peer I'm sure all of us here third parties will always be with us, we are so used to it, It applies in many industries it applies in Cryptocurrency.

With this can we now say that bitcoin is not performing the original privacy goal or that it is the human factor that is frustrating it because like you pointed out, third party services in bitcoin is really growing bigger apart from the exchanges, people have taken up this like the brokers and they stand in the middle to execute the transaction like the escrow service. I think the P2P service is not really getting that attention because of trust.

Bitcoin will not function and connect to the global economy without these third-party services.  Remember the world was not established with Bitcoin as its main currency, Bitcoin was created in a world where there is already an existing financial system.  In order to transition, Bitcoin must adjust and adapt to the existing system until it is adopted and popular enough to implement its own features without the need for these third-party processors.  Aside from that, there is also authorities that hinder most of the features of Bitcoin so for now, Bitcoin has to use these exchanges since not everything in the world can be paid by Bitcoin directly.

[bayu7adi]

Honestly, I have more numbers of trades using a middleman than using a peer-to-peer I'm sure all of us here third parties will always be with us, we are so used to it, It applies in many industries it applies in Cryptocurrency.

With this can we now say that bitcoin is not performing the original privacy goal or that it is the human factor that is frustrating it because like you pointed out, third party services in bitcoin is really growing bigger apart from the exchanges, people have taken up this like the brokers and they stand in the middle to execute the transaction like the escrow service. I think the P2P service is not really getting that attention because of trust.

There's no denying that engaging in Bitcoin transactions through third-party intermediaries offers a more convenient experience for a variety of reasons. This convenience stems from several factors, including a more robust orderbook and competitive pricing when compared to conducting direct peer-to-peer (P2P) sales. In some cases, issues related to trust and additional fees have often deterred me from engaging in P2P transactions.

On the other hand, I find P2P transactions to be more convenient when it comes to purchasing goods and services using BTC. Buying from reputable service providers offers protection against fraud and is particularly well-suited for P2P exchanges.

[Ahli38]

Using centralized exchange services has become common and difficult to avoid. I personally am used to centralized exchanges. Because for traders a centralized exchange is something that is needed. Even using p2p on centralized exchanges has now become a habit for me. It's just that one thing we must always remember about centralized exchanges is that we should not store our assets there for a long time. Especially if it's a long-term investment asset. Well, everything will always have advantages and disadvantages. Likewise with centralized and non-centralized exchanges. Everything will depend on whether we are more comfortable and feel safer using it on which exchange.

[Sayeds56]

No choice but to use the unavoidable middle man, the exchange companies.

You have highlighted the complex dynamics encountered by traders and investors when managing selling or buying their digital assets. While P2P transactions are possible, but we should recognize that intermediaries such as exchanges play important role in the business world due to the benefits they offer in terms of convenience, security and compliance with regulations and market access. It is our choice to using P2P or exchanges depending on our business of specific context in which transactions occur. I believe both models will continue to coexist serving different purposes and uses preferences within the evolving financial landscape.

[DrBeer]

Fairly positive news :

PayPal launches cryptocurrency-to-cash conversion service

Payments giant PayPal has added an Off Ramp feature to convert digital assets to US dollars directly through wallets.

Thus the platform now supports two-way transfers of crypto assets.

Earlier, the company integrated the On Ramp option to buy cryptocurrency with fiat. The MetaMask app was one of the first to add support for the service. Ledger also joined the initiative.

https://forklog.com/news/paypal-zapustil-servis-konvertatsii-kriptovalyut-v-nalichnye

[rat03gopoh]

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

Certain cryptocurrencies such as bitcoin are able to eliminate middleman technically, whereas in this case it is a user's need to adjust to business preferences, especially because cryptocurrencies must really pay attention to the level of trust of the second party.
As innovation develops in the crypto industry, the role of third parties can also be built into code which is usually called a smartcontract, although some of these sometimes have serious vulnerabilities that cause greater losses.

[gunhell16]

I believe that most business owners will prefer to transact money transfers with their customers directly without using an exchange, that will be a third party, and you'll have to pay this third party or middle man money for his services, whether you like it or not. I also believe that nothing beats transacting money directly with your clients or customers, no third party whatsoever. One of the reasons why I like bitcoin is that it's decentralized, and you can do a P2P transaction with another bitcoin holder without any exchange being involved. But for convenience, transparency and scams that are associated with P2P, you don't have much choice but to patronize the services of these exchanges.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

You know what you're saying is a matter of choice; no one is forcing you if you don't like something; it's up to you if you want to use a third party or not. It's that simple to understand. Of course, if we use our common sense, when we use fiat, it automatically has a tax, but with Bitcoin or cryptocurrency, there is none because you will go through its P2P features.

So it's more convenient to use, and many people have proven it in the field of cryptography, and you know that. Just as an example of what I'm experiencing here, when I do a transaction, I always only use p2p through Binance, and I don't have any problems with this setup of converting the profit I get to cryptocurrency, to be honest.

[Peanutswar]

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

Unfortunately being a third-party company in a decentralized technology has become a very lucrative business, Satoshi envisioned an environment without the middleman man but the lack of trust between the two parties gives power to the middleman, the third-party system has been with us since time immemorial and unfortunately, it integrates in a decentralized exchange because of the lack of trust.

Honestly, I have more numbers of trades using a middleman than using a peer-to-peer I'm sure all of us here third parties will always be with us, we are so used to it, It applies in many industries it applies in Cryptocurrency.

Reason why we are using the third party application or platform because of it's convenience you can now easily sell or buy the coin you want through using other coin or using your fiat currency unlike going into different site with different service they are now adopting the use of third party applications to make sure their users easily use their platform. Also new comers surely will embrace this too because of recommendations of experienced people and being known with their service.  Or else you want to use the old school.transaction where you really meet people to exchange your coins which is more.hassle and risky because you don't know the person you are dealing with at all.

[Learn Bitcoin]

I believe that most business owners will prefer to transact money transfers with their customers directly without using an exchange, that will be a third party, and you'll have to pay this third party or middle man money for his services, whether you like it or not. I also believe that nothing beats transacting money directly with your clients or customers, no third party whatsoever. One of the reasons why I like bitcoin is that it's decentralized, and you can do a P2P transaction with another bitcoin holder without any exchange being involved. But for convenience, transparency and scams that are associated with P2P, you don't have much choice but to patronize the services of these exchanges.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

Indeed, you cannot deny the middleman's importance when dealing with an anonymous person on the internet. Reputation is a key factor there. If you can build a solid online reputation, you will likely get the payment or product first. This applies only to public forums like BitcoinTalk and hack forums. Still, this forum has middleman services to eliminate the possibility of scams.

The fact is, forum middlemen do not ask for your private information like your Real name, Identity or your electricity bills. But when you deal with some specific platforms like Binance and other centralized platforms, you compromise your private information.

[South Park]

I believe that most business owners will prefer to transact money transfers with their customers directly without using an exchange, that will be a third party, and you'll have to pay this third party or middle man money for his services, whether you like it or not. I also believe that nothing beats transacting money directly with your clients or customers, no third party whatsoever. One of the reasons why I like bitcoin is that it's decentralized, and you can do a P2P transaction with another bitcoin holder without any exchange being involved. But for convenience, transparency and scams that are associated with P2P, you don't have much choice but to patronize the services of these exchanges.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

Indeed, you cannot deny the middleman's importance when dealing with an anonymous person on the internet. Reputation is a key factor there. If you can build a solid online reputation, you will likely get the payment or product first. This applies only to public forums like BitcoinTalk and hack forums. Still, this forum has middleman services to eliminate the possibility of scams.

The fact is, forum middlemen do not ask for your private information like your Real name, Identity or your electricity bills. But when you deal with some specific platforms like Binance and other centralized platforms, you compromise your private information.

Correct, on this forum the middleman only cares about being a middleman and as such their existence is not only tolerated but encouraged if you are making a transaction with an user you have never dealt before, however the middlemen that we find on the fiat system wants to know every single thing they can about you, and not only this robs you from your privacy, it also puts you at risk as those middlemen keep that information forever and they only need to be hacked once in order for your information to end up on the black markets.

[molsewid]

Indeed, you cannot deny the middleman's importance when dealing with an anonymous person on the internet. Reputation is a key factor there. If you can build a solid online reputation, you will likely get the payment or product first. This applies only to public forums like BitcoinTalk and hack forums. Still, this forum has middleman services to eliminate the possibility of scams.

The fact is, forum middlemen do not ask for your private information like your Real name, Identity or your electricity bills. But when you deal with some specific platforms like Binance and other centralized platforms, you compromise your private information.

Yes, especially now scammers are also using different strategies to target people. Some put an effort to build a fake exchange with fake volume. It will looks like they are having an actual supply when the reality is they don't have. I've experience that in a well known website because they have many shillers and many listing agents, they dm you if they see you are into trading.

[Mr.right85]

But for convenience, transparency and scams that are associated with P2P, you don't have much choice but to patronize the services of these exchanges.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

Nothing confines you to using a middle man in a p2p transaction.
It’s a matter of instance and convinces.

Remember, the design of cryptocurrency or bitcoin for shorts is to be non refundable and has an anonymous nature to it and it’s usage. Should you chose to forgo your anonymity, you might as well not need an exchange if your client or merchant is known. You meet up and transact physically. That works too.

Where it becomes an issue is with you, wanting the anonymity it provides but still, you don’t want the services of middle men or third party. You’ve got to wake the hell up because, that ain’t possible. You can’t eat your cake and still have it. You e hit yo make a choice on either to use third party services in exchanges and keep your anonymity or you forget the anonymity in the event that you have a means to meet the other party and transact physically.

[Learn Bitcoin]

Indeed, you cannot deny the middleman's importance when dealing with an anonymous person on the internet. Reputation is a key factor there. If you can build a solid online reputation, you will likely get the payment or product first. This applies only to public forums like BitcoinTalk and hack forums. Still, this forum has middleman services to eliminate the possibility of scams.

The fact is, forum middlemen do not ask for your private information like your Real name, Identity or your electricity bills. But when you deal with some specific platforms like Binance and other centralized platforms, you compromise your private information.

Correct, on this forum the middleman only cares about being a middleman and as such their existence is not only tolerated but encouraged if you are making a transaction with an user you have never dealt before, however the middlemen that we find on the fiat system wants to know every single thing they can about you, and not only this robs you from your privacy, it also puts you at risk as those middlemen keep that information forever and they only need to be hacked once in order for your information to end up on the black markets.

Not only do they keep the data of the users. They sell them on the dark net at a cheap price. I have translated a thread of GazetaBitcoin, which is 12 years later and people still don't know to use Bitcoin nor what it's good for . I encourage everyone to read the original version, which was written by GazetaBitcoin. In this article, GazetaBitcoin provided the information and the sources as well that those centralized exchanges are involved in selling customers' private information. I would love to quote the part from that topic:

Second of all, as I was saying above, people lose their personal information by going willingly through a very dangerous process, named KYC. The exchanges don't care about their clients nor about their personal information. They only want to earn more money. They can be hacked by hackers which, besides stealing money, also steal the users' personal information, this being a very precious resource, which can be turned into even more money, especially when it is sold on Dark Net. A CNBC article describes how the hackers sell personal information for 1$ a piece (this information consisting, among others, in physical addresses of the users, their credit / debit cards, copies of their IDs etc.): Hackers are selling your data on the ‘dark web’... for only $1. A notorious similar case from the forum is the case of the Romanian bekli23, which, while pretending he is decrypting old BTC wallets, he was also asking users to send him photos with them while holding their IDs and other bills in hand. Obviously, he was not decrypting any wallet. But he was trying to collect personal information, most likely, for selling it on Dark Net, for the ridiculous price of 1$ per piece!

In some cases, the exchanges are the ones selling customers' personal information! And I'm not talking about small, shady exchanges, but about the big ones. Coinbase is one of the biggest exchanges and yet it was caught selling clients' personal data! A 2019 article, Coinbase Admits Its Former Data Provider Sold Client Data, describes how Christine Sandler, one of the exchange's executives, admitted the company sold the users' personal information. Having this example, do you think that other exchanges don't do the same thing? Just they weren't caught yet?

I used a centralized exchange and was KYC'ed there without knowing these risks. This article explains why you should avoid centralized exchanges and banks. I understand that we have very limited options out there. But if you care about your privacy, you have to be careful.

[Kelward]

I used a centralized exchange and was KYC'ed there without knowing these risks. This article explains why you should avoid centralized exchanges and banks. I understand that we have very limited options out there. But if you care about your privacy, you have to be careful.

Indeed your post has captured the whole essence of starting this topic, because though I'm still new in bitcoin, I'd always wondered if exchanges were in the original plan of bitcoin. I know that bitcoin was created as a decentralized digital currency that guarantees privacy between two participants, so the emergence of exchanges in bitcoin transactions brings interference in the privacy. I've gone through the link that you shared and it concurs with your post which I totally agree with everything said, that besides making money off transactions, that they can also compromise their customers personal information, as you have mentioned.

Although the exchanges provide essential services in transactions because of the convenience they bring as being middleman, but we also need to have it in mind that our supposed privacy in bitcoin is not private with exchange involvements.